/irc-logs / w3c / #testing / 2014-10-23 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Oct 23 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #testing
  3. # [00:00] <jgraham> I have literally no idea what webdriver is trying to specify about paths
  4. # [00:00] <AutomatedTester> paths for what?
  5. # [00:00] <jgraham> Is it intended that /foo/bar(path in spec) is valid?
  6. # [00:00] <jgraham> For commands
  7. # [00:01] <jgraham> The testsuite has /wd/hub as a prefix hardcoded
  8. # [00:01] <jgraham> But I can't even tell if that's supposed to be allowed
  9. # [00:01] <AutomatedTester> thats a legacy thing from the OSS project
  10. # [00:01] <AutomatedTester> iirc that was an action for Simon to figure out and document
  11. # [00:02] <AutomatedTester> but he has been MIA
  12. # [00:02] <AutomatedTester> well... till just before TPAC
  13. # [00:02] <jgraham> So what does "The URLs given in this specification MUST have the same path prefix. Implementations are free to redirect those as necessary." mean?
  14. # [00:02] <AutomatedTester> good question
  15. # [00:02] * AutomatedTester tries to decipher what Simon put
  16. # [00:03] <jgraham> (I honestly have no idea what the intent of that sentence is)
  17. # [00:03] <AutomatedTester> it looks like its a padding sentence and adding no value
  18. # [00:03] <AutomatedTester> but maybe that is me
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  20. # [00:04] <jgraham> It has an RFC2119 keyword in it!
  21. # [00:04] <AutomatedTester> jgraham: go have some chocolate and let me see what he meant :)
  22. # [00:05] <jgraham> FWIW without having actual well-known urls it seems like you always need configuration to connect to a remote
  23. # [00:05] <jgraham> So I don't know why you'd want that
  24. # [00:05] <AutomatedTester> agreed
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  27. # [00:07] <jgraham> (the reaon I noticed is that the testsuite seems to hardcode this)
  28. # [00:07] <AutomatedTester> jgraham: I am going raise a bug about this, it seems silly
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  30. # [00:07] <jgraham> Thanks
  31. # [00:07] <jgraham> There are a lack of micro usb cables in my house
  32. # [00:08] <AutomatedTester> because it reads that IE could do /webdriver/foo/bar and Firefox could have /marionette/foo/bar
  33. # [00:08] <AutomatedTester> and that either is ok...
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  39. # [00:22] <ato> Perhaps we need to differentiate a bit here.
  40. # [00:22] <AutomatedTester> ato: jgraham https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=27136
  41. # [00:23] <ato> It's a genuinely useful thing to have a WebDriver intermediary remote (proxy) that listens on some specific subpath on a host
  42. # [00:23] <ato> But the situation right now is that the final remotes (the drivers) all use different base paths and that client bindings must hard code one for each.
  43. # [00:26] <jgraham> What's the use case for the proxy with multiple paths?
  44. # [00:28] <ato> Say you have an existing httpd and want to run a WebDriver proxy on something else than /session.
  45. # [00:28] <ato> (serve.py with a WebDriver handler to avoid CORS is an example of this.)
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  47. # [00:32] <jgraham> Why would serve.py want to actually handle webdriver commands?
  48. # [00:33] <jgraham> AutomatedTester: You couldn't wire up some in-sec bug reporting tool, could you?
  49. # [00:33] <jgraham> "Removing a session" doesn't specify what the response should be
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  51. # [00:34] <AutomatedTester> jgraham: I have never found one, the DOM ones seems to be tied to their markup tool
  52. # [00:34] <AutomatedTester> jgraham: recommend one and I will wire it up
  53. # [00:37] <ato> jgraham: That's a little besides the point, but in this case to avoid the restrictions of CORS. If you want to make a call to a server on a different port (or even different host) that will act as a proxy, and it's not given that you have the opportunity to set use the same base path as the server you're proxying to for that.
  54. # [00:38] <jgraham> I'm struggling to see a real life situation in which you want to run a webdriver proxy and other services on the same origin
  55. # [00:39] <jgraham> Apart from anything else it gives js on those other services webdriver access, which seems like a pretty bad idea
  56. # [00:40] <jgraham> (I guess you could set up http auth, but still)
  57. # [00:40] <ato> I think it's a pretty good idea for some things, because it gives your in-document JS control over the OOP browser session.
  58. # [00:41] <ato> If you want to write a test for window resize evens it's a useful thing to be able to both resize the window and make the assertion in the same context.
  59. # [00:41] <ato> events*
  60. # [00:42] <jgraham> Yeah, so I suppose for the specific use case of wpt it could make for an easier setup
  61. # [00:42] <ato> I'd like to see the WebDriver servers use the same base path by default however.
  62. # [00:43] <ato> If individual servers choose to provide an option to override that I guess that's fine, and not something it's necessary to put in a spec.
  63. # [00:43] <ato> Like chromedriver's --base-path=/foo flag.
  64. # [00:44] <ato> Which will make the current URL accessible as GET /foo/{session_id}/url.
  65. # [00:48] <jgraham> Wait, what?
  66. # [00:48] <jgraham> /foo/session/{} seems OK
  67. # [00:48] <jgraham> replacing /session doesn't
  68. # [00:53] <ato> Why is /session a requirement in your eyes?
  69. # [00:54] <jgraham> Because "GET /foo" to create a session and "DELETE /foo/{id}" to delete one don't make any sense
  70. # [00:55] <jgraham> If making sense there isn't a requirement I think /session should be dropped entirely
  71. # [00:58] <ato> You suggest we mandate /session from the drivers, right? And say that they may give an option to change the base path, which is /, to something else so that the full path to the session would become /foo/session?
  72. # [01:00] <MikeSmith> ato: thanks, I'll take a look at that PR on critic
  73. # [01:01] <jgraham> ato: I think that is the least insane option if they have to be allowed to change the base path
  74. # [01:01] <ato> WFM
  75. # [01:01] <ato> I was just curious about requiring them to keep /session intact. My solution would basically be to leave it unspecified.
  76. # [01:03] <ato> But I suppose we see what happens if we don't say anything: chromedriver uses /wd/url, Selenium uses /wd/hub/session, and FirefoxDriver /session.
  77. # [01:03] <ato> :D
  78. # [01:04] <jgraham> I think the spec is trying to specify this, but failing to do so
  79. # [01:04] <jgraham> That's the bug AutomatedTester raised
  80. # [01:04] <ato> Thanks for that.
  81. # [01:04] <ato> I remember reading it and being confused.
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  109. # [10:21] <MikeSmith> ato: https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/2949 may not be perfect but I think it's good enough. Works well for me at least in my environment. I'd be happy if it were landed so that I can use it next week to demo at the testing breakout session at TPAC.
  110. # [10:36] <MikeSmith> I'm pretty sure the ChromeDriver docs are trolling me
  111. # [10:37] <MikeSmith> ーan executable downloaded from the Chromium project which acts as a bridge between "chrome" and the "driver". This executable is called "chromedriver", but we'll try and refer to it as the "server" in this page to reduce confusion.
  112. # [10:38] <MikeSmith> "Simply start up the ChromeDriver executable (that works as a server), create a client, and away you go"
  113. # [10:39] <MikeSmith> I also like how the section on reporting bugs is titled, "Think you've found a bug?"
  114. # [10:39] <MikeSmith> I think these docs have a chip on their shoulder
  115. # [10:40] <Ms2ger> You appear to have found a bug. Would you like help with that?
  116. # [10:41] <MikeSmith> heh
  117. # [10:41] <MikeSmith> "We realise that these terms are confusing, so please feel free to suggest something better!"
  118. # [10:42] <MikeSmith> the sectioning containing that text is mistitled
  119. # [10:42] <MikeSmith> for consistency I think they meant to title it, "So you think you can come up with less-confusing terms?"
  120. # [10:43] * MikeSmith files a docs bug
  121. # [10:44] <Ms2ger> Ha
  122. # [11:17] <ato> MikeSmith: Sounds good!
  123. # [11:22] <jgraham> Maybe they should call sometimes call the server "the client"
  124. # [11:22] <MikeSmith> ato: nice work on that btw, and thanks
  125. # [11:23] <MikeSmith> jgraham: good brainstorming
  126. # [11:23] <MikeSmith> so hey I still don't understand how to run firefox from wptrunner
  127. # [11:24] <MikeSmith> I realize I can run it with mach in my mozilla working directory
  128. # [11:24] <MikeSmith> but I'd like to demo running it directly from wptrunner of possible
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  130. # [11:36] <jgraham> MikeSmith: wptrunner --binary=~/develop/gecko-dev-1/obj-x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/dist/bin/firefox --tests=/home/jgraham/develop/web-platform-tests/ --metadata=/home/jgraham/develop/web-platform-tests/ --run-by-dir --log-mach=- --prefs-root=~/develop/gecko-dev/testing/profiles/ --processes=1 --include=dom --log-mach-level=debug
  131. # [11:36] <jgraham> Is an actual command from my history
  132. # [11:37] <jgraham> --run-by-dir and --processes aren't needed
  133. # [11:37] <jgraham> But --prefs-root is
  134. # [11:37] <jgraham> (also not --include unless you want that)
  135. # [11:43] <MikeSmith> jgraham: ah ok thanks I didn't have --prefs-root
  136. # [11:44] <jgraham> Yeah, it kind of sucks, but I don't know what the best thing do do is
  137. # [11:45] <MikeSmith> hmm I don't know what a press file looks like. is there a default somewhere
  138. # [11:45] <jgraham> It could try to download a copy, or we could include a copy, or something
  139. # [11:45] <MikeSmith> Ok
  140. # [11:45] <jgraham> You mean prefs?
  141. # [11:45] <MikeSmith> yeah
  142. # [11:46] <jgraham> You need to use one in your source tree. $SOURCE_ROOT/testing/profiles/
  143. # [11:46] <MikeSmith> hai
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  151. # [13:21] <jgraham> Bah, this whole partial configuration overriding stuff doesn't work too well with ssl support
  152. # [13:22] <jgraham> Because different options need totally different keys
  153. # [13:22] <jgraham> I guess the eaiest thing to do is go super-verbose and include all the possibilities in the default configuration
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  156. # [14:21] <MikeSmith> jgraham: what does the --product switch do?
  157. # [14:23] <ato> It chooses the correct product? wptrunner can't deduce which browser specification to use from the binary alone.
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  160. # [14:29] <MikeSmith> ato: but it's not required and jgraham didn't have it in the command he pasted in above
  161. # [14:29] <ato> Hm I thought it was. My knowledge is outdated then.
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  165. # [14:47] <jgraham> MikeSmith: Firefox is the default
  166. # [14:55] <ato> And here I've been typing "--product firefox" for months. You owe me back some characters.
  167. # [14:56] <MikeSmith> heh
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  177. # [15:30] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] jgraham pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/commit/2ea4b62e7e9a27b9d158e21cbe7d155aabbaae2f
  178. # [15:30] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master 2ea4b62 James Graham: Update to latest wptserve
  179. # [15:30] * Parts: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak) (gitbot)
  180. # [15:39] <MikeSmith> is TBPL format a mozilla thing?
  181. # [15:39] <MikeSmith> ah tinderbox
  182. # [15:40] <MikeSmith> Tinderboxpushlog
  183. # [15:43] <jgraham> In the beginning there was the CI system and that CI system was tinderbox
  184. # [15:43] <jgraham> And then tinderbox begot tbpl and tbpl begot treeherder
  185. # [15:45] <jgraham> But the format is still called tbpl format even though tinderbox has been switched off for some time now
  186. # [15:46] <MikeSmith> jgraham: OK
  187. # [15:47] <MikeSmith> so the output from the --log-html format is known not to be right?
  188. # [15:48] <MikeSmith> it just lists all the tests and claims all of them passed even though the log-mach and raw output show that there were failures
  189. # [15:49] <jgraham> MikeSmith: I think the honest answer is that I don't remember.
  190. # [15:49] <MikeSmith> ok
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  192. # [15:49] <MikeSmith> I'm just playing around with it anyway
  193. # [15:50] <jgraham> I think we are going to release a new mozlog today or so with improvements to the HTML format, so retrying after we do that might help
  194. # [15:50] <MikeSmith> I guess to contribute something useful I could write some PRs with minor updates to the .rst docs
  195. # [15:50] <MikeSmith> jgraham: k
  196. # [15:50] <jgraham> Honestly I don't know how useful --log-html is for wpt since there tend to be an awful lot of tests and subtests
  197. # [15:50] <MikeSmith> right
  198. # [15:51] <MikeSmith> the --log-mach output is nice anyway
  199. # [15:51] <MikeSmith> as far as having something readable
  200. # [15:52] <jgraham> Yeah, the log-tbpl format is specifically designed to work well with the crazy regexp our various log parsers use
  201. # [15:53] <jgraham> although the long term goal is to make those operate on the json directly
  202. # [15:53] <MikeSmith> ok
  203. # [15:54] <jgraham> (we're half way there for wpt; the actual status of the job is set from the JSON, but the summary of any errors in the web UI comes from parsing the --log-tbpl output)
  204. # [15:55] <MikeSmith> I think it's pretty impressive how far along all this already, as far as having something that works across more than one browser engine
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  206. # [16:02] <jgraham> It feels like it could be run against Blink in CI with very little effort
  207. # [16:03] <jgraham> But it needs someone to actually do that
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  209. # [16:11] <MikeSmith> jgraham: good thing you'll be at GTAC and have time to talk to Chrome testing people and convince them
  210. # [16:13] <MikeSmith> do we really not have somebody on the blink team that's already semi-aware of the core wpt work and thinking about how to integrate it into their automation?
  211. # [16:14] <MikeSmith> a Blink counterpart for Dirk Pranke
  212. # [16:15] <MikeSmith> btw is FirefoxDriver still an active thing, or has it been completely superseded by Marionette
  213. # [16:16] <jgraham> ato: ^
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  215. # [16:25] <Ms2ger> denis, what's the loop variable at https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/blob/servo/html/dom/documents/resource-metadata-management/document-readyState.html#L26 for?
  216. # [16:26] <jgraham> Apart from that I was going to comment that it was a nice test :)
  217. # [16:26] <Ms2ger> And https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/blob/master/html/dom/documents/resource-metadata-management/document-readyState.html#L26
  218. # [16:27] * Ms2ger should test his links
  219. # [16:30] <denis> it should be removed Ms2ger
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  221. # [16:31] <Ms2ger> Knock yourself out ;)
  222. # [16:31] <Ms2ger> I'll review!
  223. # [16:32] <denis> ok Ms2ger I'll take care of it in a bit
  224. # [16:33] <Ms2ger> Thanks!
  225. # [16:33] <MikeSmith> well this is weird, http://web-platform.test:8000/tools/runner/index.html no long works in my environment
  226. # [16:34] <MikeSmith> instead http://web-platform.test:8000/tools/runner/tools/runner/index.html does
  227. # [16:34] <Ms2ger> I believe one jgraham recently touched that
  228. # [16:34] <MikeSmith> something borked
  229. # [16:34] * MikeSmith looks at the changelog
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  231. # [16:39] <jgraham> Hmm
  232. # [16:42] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: yeah and I reviewed it :(
  233. # [16:42] <Ms2ger> MikeSmith, :)
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  235. # [16:51] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] jgraham created jgraham/ssl_support (+1 new commit): https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/commit/94d456679653
  236. # [16:51] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/jgraham/ssl_support 94d4566 James Graham: Support running tests with SSL....
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  239. # [16:52] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] jgraham opened pull request #1302: Support running tests with SSL. (master...jgraham/ssl_support) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1302
  240. # [16:52] * Parts: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak) (gitbot)
  241. # [16:53] <jgraham> OK, created a PR for SSL support, but I don't think it's necessarily "done" yet, I just want to encourage people to try it out
  242. # [16:57] <plh> any specific test you recommend for testing the ssl support?
  243. # [16:58] <jgraham> The PR didn't actually include any fixes for tests
  244. # [16:58] <jgraham> iirc there's only one test currently that tries to use https. I can fix that and add it to the branch
  245. # [16:58] <plh> I think we have more than one. others have been disabled
  246. # [16:58] * plh looks
  247. # [16:59] <jgraham> There are some wss ones, but that isn't working yet (just because I didn't get to it)
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  249. # [17:00] <plh> html/editing/dnd/resources/crossorigin.sub.js has some https
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  251. # [17:01] <jgraham> Yeah, that's a manual test though
  252. # [17:01] <jgraham> Or they are all manual tests
  253. # [17:01] <plh> yes
  254. # [17:01] <jgraham> MikeSmith: Dammit
  255. # [17:02] <plh> so, I try to access https://web-platform.test:8000/, I get "SSL connection error"
  256. # [17:02] <plh> not sure if it's intended or not
  257. # [17:02] <jgraham> plh: Yeah, the ssl server is typically 8443
  258. # [17:03] <plh> https://web-platform.test:8443/ is untrusted
  259. # [17:03] <plh> I guess we'll have to tell folks to trust it anyway
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  262. # [17:08] <plh> so I can report that it works on chrome and firefox, once you get passed the untrusted/warning boxes
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  265. # [17:20] <simons> Is there a good guide for working with mercurial that anyone here can recommend?
  266. # [17:20] <simons> Because I have a pile of edits to make to the webdriver spec, and have spent the day being frustrated by hg
  267. # [17:21] <jgraham> simons: Put the whole thing in git instead?
  268. # [17:21] <jgraham> (I'm serious, we can do that)
  269. # [17:22] <jgraham> Dunno where AutomatedTester is
  270. # [17:22] <simons> I feel I should probably be quad-lingual with source control systems
  271. # [17:22] <simons> Just knowing a decent hg workflow would be Very Useful
  272. # [17:23] <jgraham> At some point in the past http://hginit.com/ was supposed to be good
  273. # [17:23] <ato> MikeSmith: FirefoxDriver is the official WebDriver implementation for Firefox. It's being superseded by Marionette, but we're not there yet.
  274. # [17:23] <jgraham> I don't know if it contains modern features though
  275. # [17:24] <jgraham> The first rule is "don't listen to anyone at Mozilla who tries to teach you their hg workflow"
  276. # [17:24] <simons> If it covers bookmarks I'll be fine
  277. # [17:24] <simons> I believe the same applies at facebook
  278. # [17:24] <ato> MikeSmith: As it so happens wptrunner uses Marionette to drive Firefox because it's the future.
  279. # [17:24] <jgraham> Because there's about a 99% chance they'll say "mq" at some point
  280. # [17:24] <simons> Helpful
  281. # [17:24] <simons> I've always wanted a message queue in the middle of my source control process
  282. # [17:24] <ato> Yes to put the whole thing in git.
  283. # [17:25] <ato> We don't have time to frustrate about hg.
  284. # [17:25] <simons> Meh. Once I understand the system, I'm sure I'll be equally grumbly about hg as I am about git
  285. # [17:26] <jgraham> http://gregoryszorc.com/blog/2014/06/23/please-stop-using-mq/ might be useful, although like all things gps writes, it's about 25% anti-git ranting
  286. # [17:26] <ato> I'm cleverly avoiding hg at Mozilla by using the git mirror.
  287. # [17:28] <Ms2ger> Also don't ask jgraham, because it'll be 100% anti-hg ranting
  288. # [17:28] <simons> So far, my workflow is: hg clone blah blah; cd blah; hg bookmark -r default magic; hg up magic; touch ttt; hg add ttt; hg commit -m 'Look'
  289. # [17:28] <simons> And then it falls apart
  290. # [17:29] <simons> I've got access to hg committers. They just happen to be asleep. So the access is theoretical :)
  291. # [17:29] <simons> I'd been under the impression that an hg bookmark was exactly analogous to a git branch
  292. # [17:29] <simons> This appears to be fallacious
  293. # [17:30] <Ms2ger> simons, assuming exact equivalence is always going to be a fallacy
  294. # [17:30] <simons> Well, I know that now
  295. # [17:30] <Ms2ger> If you have access to the upstream repo, hg clone blah blah; cd blah; touch ttt; hg add ttt; hg commit -m 'Look'; hg push will just work
  296. # [17:31] * Joins: bhill2 (~bhill2@public.cloak)
  297. # [17:31] <simons> I really wanted a handful of diffs in flight at the same time
  298. # [17:31] <simons> In git, I'd keep "master" pristine
  299. # [17:31] <simons> and just work on a series of branches
  300. # [17:32] <simons> Which I'd rebase on master and merge back in when I was ready to push (to preserve a linear history)
  301. # [17:32] <jgraham> simons: Yeah, so that workflow is possible with bookmarks
  302. # [17:32] <simons> Excellent. Can I treat "default" as a bookmark?
  303. # [17:32] <jgraham> But there are major missing features that make it harder than it needs to be
  304. # [17:32] <jgraham> Yeah, default is a bookmark
  305. # [17:32] <jgraham> But there isn't anything that corresponds to origin/master
  306. # [17:32] <simons> How come it doesn't show up in "hg bookmarks"?
  307. # [17:33] <jgraham> I thought it did…
  308. # [17:33] <jgraham> I dont' do this much
  309. # [17:33] <simons> Nope
  310. # [17:33] <simons> :)
  311. # [17:33] <simons> Neither do I. It's been an experience
  312. # [17:34] <jgraham> Ms2ger: I'm not sure that I've made any anti-hg rants here
  313. # [17:34] <jgraham> Although I think simons should just switch the repo to git :)
  314. # [17:34] <Ms2ger> I didn't say it was here :)
  315. # [17:35] * Joins: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak)
  316. # [17:35] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] deniak created denis/clean-readystate-test (+1 new commit): https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/commit/1db739a055cc
  317. # [17:35] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/denis/clean-readystate-test 1db739a Denis Ah-Kang: remove unused var
  318. # [17:35] * Parts: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak) (gitbot)
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  320. # [17:37] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] deniak opened pull request #1303: remove unused var (master...denis/clean-readystate-test) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1303
  321. # [17:37] * Parts: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak) (gitbot)
  322. # [17:38] <ato> Should /testharness_runner.html in wpt be in .gitignore?
  323. # [17:39] <simons> The most amusing lesson I've learnt today: there are more hg workflows than git ones. And there are as many git workflows as there are language choices on the Downfall DVD.
  324. # [17:39] <simons> A truly bewildering number
  325. # [17:42] * Joins: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak)
  326. # [17:42] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] jgraham closed pull request #1303: remove unused var (master...denis/clean-readystate-test) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1303
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  329. # [17:51] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] deniak deleted denis/clean-readystate-test at 1db739a: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/commit/1db739a
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  333. # [18:03] <simons> Being schooled on hg by one of the mercurial people at work. It's a revelation
  334. # [18:03] <simons> We don't need to move the repo :)
  335. # [18:03] * Joins: AutomatedTester (~AutomatedTester@public.cloak)
  336. # [18:04] * jgraham looks forward to the gospel according to simons
  337. # [18:04] * Joins: plh (plehegar@public.cloak)
  338. # [18:06] <simons> It's being made to sound very simple
  339. # [18:07] <jgraham> haha
  340. # [18:07] <simons> I think I understand what I'm doing now. The key, it turns out, appears to be creating multiple heads in the same branch
  341. # [18:08] <simons> And understanding that a bookmark is a pointer to a revision, rather than being an actual branch
  342. # [18:08] <jgraham> Yeah, a bookmark is like a git branch
  343. # [18:08] <simons> No
  344. # [18:08] <simons> That's what got me into this mess :)
  345. # [18:09] <jgraham> A git branch is a pointer to a revision…
  346. # [18:09] <simons> A git branch is more equivalent to an hg head
  347. # [18:09] <simons> But changes in one branch don't effect other branches
  348. # [18:09] <simons> Whereas, since a bookmark is a pointer to a revision, you can royally screw things up in hg
  349. # [18:10] <jgraham> Now when you say "branch" I have no idea what you are talking about :)
  350. # [18:10] <simons> :)
  351. # [18:10] <simons> git branches are independent of one another
  352. # [18:10] <jgraham> Right
  353. # [18:10] <jgraham> hg bookmarks aren't?
  354. # [18:11] <simons> Not always :)
  355. # [18:11] <jgraham> WTF?
  356. # [18:11] <simons> They are if the diffs they point to are on different heads
  357. # [18:12] <jgraham> So if you have
  358. # [18:12] <jgraham> A - B
  359. # [18:12] <jgraham> \_ C
  360. # [18:12] <jgraham> and have two bookmarks pointing to B
  361. # [18:12] <jgraham> and then add B-D
  362. # [18:13] <jgraham> Moving one bookmark will move both?
  363. # [18:13] <simons> Where are your bookmarks?
  364. # [18:13] <jgraham> (but not if one points at B and one at C ofc)
  365. # [18:14] <jgraham> Well let's say that A has "a", B has "b" and "b'" and C has "c"
  366. # [18:14] <jgraham> and you add a new commit to B called D
  367. # [18:14] <simons> A commit will move the current bookmark
  368. # [18:15] <jgraham> So typically b or b' in that case?
  369. # [18:15] <jgraham> But not both?
  370. # [18:15] <simons> So, if you're on B and commit, the "b" bookmark will now point to "D"
  371. # [18:15] <jgraham> Right
  372. # [18:15] <jgraham> So that sounds like git branches
  373. # [18:16] <jgraham> What shows the difference?
  374. # [18:16] <simons> But if you do something in "a", I _think_ it ends up being reflected in both "b" and "c"
  375. # [18:16] <simons> I'm having a play right now
  376. # [18:16] <jgraham> Wait, what?
  377. # [18:17] <jgraham> What could you do to A that would possibly move other bookmarks?
  378. # [18:17] <simons> (like I said, I'm about to have aplay)
  379. # [18:17] <simons> because "a" isn't a head.
  380. # [18:17] <simons> (I think)
  381. # [18:17] <simons> I'm a kinesthetic learner.
  382. # [18:18] <simons> Will have this cracked in about 10 minutes now
  383. # [18:19] * jgraham notes that the theory about different people having different types of learning has been largely discredited
  384. # [18:19] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@public.cloak) ("My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…")
  385. # [18:19] <jgraham> (or at least I think I saw that somewhere)
  386. # [18:19] <simons> I definitely learn better by doing
  387. # [18:20] <jgraham> Sure, but I think the idea is that applies more or less to everyone
  388. # [18:22] <Ms2ger> simons, try teaching
  389. # [18:22] <simons> Ms2ger: ?
  390. # [18:22] <Ms2ger> I hear that works even better :)
  391. # [18:22] <simons> Oh yeah. That forces you to actually know things
  392. # [18:22] * Joins: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak)
  393. # [18:22] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] mbrubeck closed pull request #1300: Update TA11.1-11.2 to use All_Pointer_Events pattern and eliminate timer (master...submission/Microsoft/PointerEvents-TA11Updates) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1300
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  396. # [18:22] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] mbrubeck pushed 3 new commits to master: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/compare/b918656cc7c3...ec35bb404e14
  397. # [18:22] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master 88f015d Evgeny Agafonchikov: Fixing All_Pointer_Events issue...
  398. # [18:22] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master 4d498be Jacob Rossi: Fix code style to clarify code flow through conditional
  399. # [18:22] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master ec35bb4 Matt Brubeck: Merge pull request #1300 from InternetExplorer/submission/Microsoft/PointerEvents-TA11Updates...
  400. # [18:22] * Parts: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak) (gitbot)
  401. # [18:23] <simons> Right. jgraham I was talking nonsense
  402. # [18:23] <simons> Modifying A won't modify B or C
  403. # [18:23] <jgraham> OK
  404. # [18:23] <simons> Though you can rebase for fun and profit
  405. # [18:24] <jgraham> If you are rebasing for fun, you probably need a hobby. Or help.
  406. # [18:24] <Ms2ger> Or both
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  424. # [19:45] <jgraham> MikeSmith: So I might have said some time ago that I have a fix for your problem
  425. # [19:46] <jgraham> Turns out that testing it involves rebuilding Firefox
  426. # [19:46] <jgraham> Which on this machine takes ~forever
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The end :)