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1. # Session Start: Thu Feb 12 00:00:00 2015
2. # Session Ident: #testing
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5. # [00:38] <MikeSmith> I have the dependencies for https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/issues/1603
6. # [00:39] <MikeSmith> 2dcontext/tools/gentest.py
7. # [00:40] <MikeSmith> I'll re-run it now and open a PR
8. # [00:42] <MikeSmith> 「<Error>: The function ‘CGFontGetGlyphPath’ is obsolete and will be removed in an upcoming update. Unfortunately, this application, or a library it uses, is using this obsolete function, and is thereby contributing to an overall degradation of system performance.」
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15. # [02:34] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] haoxli opened pull request #1618: Add test for user denial of captured file (master...mediacapture/user-denial-test) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1618
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25. # [06:43] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] sideshowbarker created sideshowbarker/2dcontext (+1 new commit): https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/commit/fc08667b8907
26. # [06:43] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/sideshowbarker/2dcontext fc08667 Michael[tm] Smith: Sync 2dcontext tests to #1599. Closes #1603.
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29. # [06:44] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] sideshowbarker opened pull request #1619: Sync 2dcontext tests to #1599. Closes #1603. (master...sideshowbarker/2dcontext) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1619
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33. # [07:14] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] zqzhang closed pull request #1599: Update test size.attributes.parse.whitespace.html (master...webplatform/update-cavnas) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1599
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36. # [07:14] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] zqzhang pushed 3 new commits to master: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/compare/a696a72752e2...dfab8f2c1034
37. # [07:14] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master 547d042 chenxi: Update test size.attributes.parse.whitespace.html...
38. # [07:14] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master 092f472 chenxi: Update tests.yaml for size.attributes.parse.whitespace
39. # [07:14] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master dfab8f2 Zhiqiang Zhang: Merge pull request #1599 from chenxix/webplatform/update-cavnas...
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42. # [07:14] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] zqzhang closed pull request #1619: Sync 2dcontext tests to #1599. Closes #1603. (master...sideshowbarker/2dcontext) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1619
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45. # [07:14] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] zqzhang deleted sideshowbarker/2dcontext at fc08667: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/commit/fc08667
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48. # [07:23] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] kangxu opened pull request #1620: Update idlharness tests for Battery Status API to latest CR (master...battery-status/update3) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1620
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51. # [07:30] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] zqzhang closed pull request #1617: Rewrite the tests for synthetic PopStateEvents. (master...popstateevent) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1617
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54. # [07:30] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] zqzhang pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/compare/b77f29ada78c...51d507531d26
55. # [07:30] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master 77abd41 Ms2ger: Rewrite the tests for synthetic PopStateEvents.
56. # [07:30] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master 51d5075 Zhiqiang Zhang: Merge pull request #1617 from Ms2ger/popstateevent...
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61. # [11:46] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: hmm, looks like the _assertSame is still expecting \r. but i think now we should revert the change and edit escapeHTML in gentest.py to emit &#xD; for \r
62. # [11:47] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: Oh
63. # [11:50] <MikeSmith> I didn't bother to actually (re)test anything when I ran the script
64. # [11:52] <MikeSmith> anyway agreed we should revert it
65. # [11:54] <MikeSmith> I can deal with regenerating the files after the fix at least
66. # [11:55] <MikeSmith> On my mobile now
67. # [12:47] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: ok, thx. i'll see if i can provide a fix sans regen
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71. # [13:53] <jgraham> !summon Ms2ger
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75. # [14:25] <ato> dev.w3.org down?
76. # [14:26] <Yves> slow, it seems
77. # [14:29] <ato> Yes, the document loaded finally.
78. # [14:31] <jgraham> darobin: So how does one refer to a term defined in another spec with ReSpec?
79. # [14:31] <jgraham> I can see how to refer to the whole spec, but not a specific definition
80. # [14:35] <darobin> jgraham: that's not supported at this point (though there have been discussions about making it work in all tools)
81. # [14:37] <darobin> if there's a pressing need I can probably add support pretty quickly, it's just a question of pushing it up the priority list
82. # [14:39] <jgraham> Not really a pressing need, I was just looking at WebDriver and wondering what it would take to reuse the request and response objects defined in fetch
83. # [14:39] <jgraham> And, I guess, lots of algorithms defined in HTML
84. # [14:44] <jgraham> It's going to be pretty annoying if every time you have to do something in HTML it looks like "queue a task [HTML] to create a script [HTML] for /source/ with environment settings object [HTML] (whatever it should be)"
85. # [14:44] <jgraham> s/in HTML/in WebDriver/
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87. # [14:55] <darobin> jgraham: oh, yeah, I definitely wouldn't do it that way
88. # [14:56] <darobin> there are several options here
89. # [14:57] <darobin> based on what people do, one is simply to have "then you <a href="http://...#queue" class="externalRef">queue a task</a>
90. # [14:57] <darobin> the other is to have a section at the top with "The following concepts are defined in HTML [HTML]"
91. # [14:57] <darobin> then "<li><a href="to html"><dfn>queue a task..."
92. # [14:58] <jgraham> Yeah, I guess explicit links work
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104. # [17:14] <yoav> darobin: Critic? Seriousely???
105. # [17:15] <Ms2ger> yoav, ?
106. # [17:15] <darobin> yoav: you don't like Critic?
107. # [17:15] <Wilto> The old cartoon? It was okay, I guess.
108. # [17:15] <darobin> yoav: you get used to it :)
109. # [17:15] <yoav> I like busting darobin's chops better
110. # [17:15] <darobin> lol
111. # [17:15] * darobin had forgtten about the /topic, it's been there a looooooooong time
112. # [17:16] <plh> lol
113. # [17:16] <darobin> yoav and Wilto show up and immediately my playlist switches to "Sexbomb" — coincidence?
114. # [17:16] <Wilto> absolutely not
115. # [17:16] <darobin> right, I did think it was what you two sing whenever you join a channel I'm on
116. # [17:16] <jgraham> Oooh, it's a Ms2ger
117. # [17:17] * Ms2ger bows
118. # [17:17] <Ms2ger> What do you need now?
119. # [17:17] <darobin> jgraham, Ms2ger: do you know if anyone has experience converting Blink layout tests to testharness?
120. # [17:17] <darobin> the Responsive Images people would like to do that
121. # [17:17] <jgraham> Ms2ger, MikeSmith: Any chance that one of you will have the chance to look at my two reftest-related reviews any time soon?
122. # [17:18] <jgraham> darobin: Would they like to convert some Service Worker tests whilst they're at it?
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124. # [17:18] <Ms2ger> darobin, I hear someone's converted some SW tests like that
125. # [17:18] <jgraham> Ms2ger, MikeSmith: if not I can call in the cavalry
126. # [17:18] <Ms2ger> jgraham, sound the horn
127. # [17:18] <yoav> darobin: The problem is not converting (blink's LayoutTest system supports both)
128. # [17:18] <darobin> jgraham: well, I was thinking: the RICG has a pretty sexy and active gang of people, if there were docs or even just general advice about conversions, they could take that on for RI stuff but some might get interested in other parts as well
129. # [17:19] <Ms2ger> I'll be out for the weekend too
130. # [17:20] <yoav> darobin: My main question is how/where does one create a w3c test suite that can later be passed around to other engines
131. # [17:20] <Ms2ger> yoav, here :)
132. # [17:20] <darobin> yoav: we might not be talking about the same thing re "converting"
133. # [17:20] <Ms2ger> https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests
134. # [17:21] <darobin> yoav: well, https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/ is just that
135. # [17:21] <yoav> darobin: OK
136. # [17:21] <Ms2ger> http://testthewebforward.org/
137. # [17:21] <darobin> for <picture>, I reckon it'd just go under /html/
138. # [17:21] <darobin> and as Ms2ger points out, there's documentation on the TestTWF site
139. # [17:21] * darobin thought we'd talked about this before but it might have been just with Marcos
140. # [17:22] <yoav> One more hurdle I can think of, which is a major one, is the lack of cross-browser ways to set DPR
141. # [17:22] <Ms2ger> DPR?
142. # [17:22] <yoav> devicePixelRatio
143. # [17:23] <darobin> Dead Pirate Roberts obviously
144. # [17:23] <darobin> or, well, that too
145. # [17:23] <Ms2ger> Ah
146. # [17:23] <darobin> Dread*
147. # [17:23] <yoav> in Blink/WebKit there's a test-only API that lets you do that
148. # [17:23] <Ms2ger> Yeah, not even sure how we do that internally
149. # [17:23] <yoav> maybe we can create a JS abstraction around that, if Gecko has something similar
150. # [17:27] <jgraham> In gecko you need specialPowers to set a pref
151. # [17:27] <Wilto> Little later today I’m gonna chat with Bocoup about maybe getting some hands on this.
152. # [17:27] <jgraham> So basically if you have to do that for the tests you *can't* make them cross-browser
153. # [17:28] <jgraham> (web-platform-tests aren't run in a way that allows you to get specialPowers in gecko)
154. # [17:28] <jgraham> There were also some Mozilla people talking about maybe writing <picture> tests, but I'm not sure what happened to that idea
155. # [17:29] <yoav> :/
156. # [17:30] <Wilto> Hm.
157. # [17:30] <yoav> That means that everything that requires a specific DPR to impact the result can't be cross browser
158. # [17:30] <yoav> which is everything srcset
159. # [17:31] <jgraham> Yeah, but it's sort of an intrinsic limitation of cross-browser testing. Until we standardise a test-only API for setting that kind of thing, but no one has really wanted to do that yet
160. # [17:33] <yoav> what's the limitation on the moz side? testharness tests can't have specialPowers?
161. # [17:33] <Ms2ger> Servo doesn't have special powers :)
162. # [17:33] <Wilto> samesies
163. # [17:36] <jgraham> The fundamental limitation here is that there isn't an API you can call in a cross-browser way that allows you to set what you want to set. Different vendors might have their own internal APIs, but there's no guarantee they are compatible. For single-vendor tests this doesn't matter; they just write tests that work with whatever API they happen to have. For cross-browser tests this does matter
164. # [17:36] <darobin> jgraham: isn't that something that wptrunner could act on?
165. # [17:36] <jgraham> darobin: How?
166. # [17:36] <darobin> jgraham: well, it is running a browser instance, can it not manipulate privileged stuff?
167. # [17:37] <yoav> jgraham: You could also add a JS abstraction on top that manages these different APIs
168. # [17:37] <jgraham> The situation is that gecko has a thing, blink has a similar (but possibly different?) thing. Presumably webkit has something different to blink. IE might or might not have a thing. Servo has nothing.
169. # [17:37] <darobin> then we need a convention to state how DPR-dependent tests run
170. # [17:37] <jgraham> s/different to/similar to/
171. # [17:38] <yoav> if(window.internals)// do Blink/WebKit stuff
172. # [17:38] <Wilto> Could we create a method for use throughout the tests, that points to a function with something to the tune of “/* DO YOUR BROWSER-Y DPR STUFF HERE */”?
173. # [17:38] <yoav> etc,etc
174. # [17:38] <Wilto> He said JavaScriptially.
175. # [17:39] <jgraham> In gecko at least you don't get the priviledged context just by being a test, I don't think, you have to do something extra (ms2ger might know what)
176. # [17:39] <jgraham> But writing "cross browser" tests that are full of browser-specific code is not a winning strategy
177. # [17:39] <Ms2ger> We install an addon in mochitests that exposes an API to the web page
178. # [17:42] <jgraham> Right, so if you want to propose that browsers expose a common test-centric API in testing situations, that seems like a reasonable idea but it actually needs a specification
179. # [17:43] <yoav> jgraham: I'm still not clear on why can't we start with a JS based API abstraction
180. # [17:44] <yoav> if (super powers or whatever) setDprForGecko()
181. # [17:44] <jgraham> Because putting browser-specific code in tests isn't allowed
182. # [17:45] <yoav> we could have that abstraction outside of the tests themselves
183. # [17:45] <Wilto> I mean, I can see where that would spiral out of control over time.
184. # [17:45] <jgraham> and specialPowers isn't avaiable to web-platform-tests in Gecko
185. # [17:46] <jgraham> If you want to abstract it into a library then that seems like it's basically standardising an API
186. # [17:46] <jgraham> So I'm saying "let's have a conversation about whether standardising such an API is a good idea and if so what it should look like"
187. # [17:47] <yoav> I'm all for that
188. # [17:47] <jgraham> public-test-infra@lists.w3.org
189. # [17:47] <yoav> But it'd be a shame if we'd have to stall all efforts of have a w3c test suit until such a spec gets hammered down
190. # [17:48] <yoav> when we can prollyfill it
191. # [17:48] <jgraham> Well you can do eerything that doesn't require setting prefs already
192. # [17:48] <yoav> which is close to nothing
193. # [17:49] <jgraham> Starting with that and having the bigger conversation in parallel seems like a good place to figure out how to proceed
194. # [17:49] <yoav> almost all srcset tests rely on the DPR being either 1 or 2 or something well defined
195. # [17:50] <jgraham> Well, if you create a polyfill right now it still won't work in gecko because the infrastructure doesn't support it, or in IE because we don't know how to polyfill this in IE.
196. # [17:50] <yoav> although when I think of it, some of the logic they test is UA specific
197. # [17:50] <jgraham> So I think having the conversation upfront is really quite necessary
198. # [17:50] <yoav> ok
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202. # [18:08] <Wilto> So, in terms of The Plan, then: where do we start? Fire off an email on the subject to public-test-infra@lists.w3.org ?
203. # [18:09] <Ms2ger> Sounds good
204. # [18:20] <jgraham> Yep
205. # [18:20] <jgraham> You could, perhaps, CC browser-tools-testing, but set reply-to public-test-infra
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231. # [20:24] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] Ms2ger opened pull request #1621: Define a strigifier on the URLUtils interfaces. (master...url-html-idl) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1621
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251. # [22:45] * Quits: darobin (rberjon@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
252. # [23:03] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
253. # [23:05] * Joins: Wilto (~Wilto@public.cloak)
254. # [23:12] * Quits: Wilto (~Wilto@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
255. # [23:13] * Joins: Wilto (~Wilto@public.cloak)
256. # [23:25] * Quits: anselm (~anselm@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
257. # [23:26] * Joins: anselm_ (~anselm@public.cloak)
258. # [23:28] * Quits: Wilto (~Wilto@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
259. # Session Close: Fri Feb 13 00:00:00 2015

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