/irc-logs / w3c / #testing / 2015-07-30 / end

Options:

Previous day, Next day

  1. # Session Start: Thu Jul 30 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #testing
  3. # [00:08] * Quits: playjax (~chatzilla@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  4. # [00:31] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) ("Leaving...")
  5. # [00:39] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak) ("nn")
  6. # [00:54] * Joins: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak)
  7. # [00:54] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] Ms2ger closed pull request #1627: Extend the withCredentials test. (master...withCredentials) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1627
  8. # [00:54] * Parts: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak)
  9. # [01:07] * Quits: plh (plehegar@public.cloak) ("Leaving")
  10. # [02:41] * Quits: jyasskin (~textual@public.cloak) ("My computer has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…")
  11. # [02:49] * terri is now known as terri_offline
  12. # [02:49] * terri_offline is now known as terri
  13. # [03:04] * terri is now known as terri_offline
  14. # [03:06] * plinss is now known as plinss_away
  15. # [03:11] * plinss_away is now known as plinss
  16. # [03:16] * Joins: scott_gonzalez (~scott_gonzalez@public.cloak)
  17. # [04:05] * Joins: MK (kawamori@public.cloak)
  18. # [05:12] * Joins: playjax (~chatzilla@public.cloak)
  19. # [06:27] * Joins: jyasskin (~textual@public.cloak)
  20. # [06:40] * Quits: jyasskin (~textual@public.cloak) ("My computer has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…")
  21. # [06:52] * Quits: MK (kawamori@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  22. # [07:15] * Joins: hgl_ (~hgl@public.cloak)
  23. # [07:15] * Joins: MK (kawamori@public.cloak)
  24. # [07:21] * Quits: hgl (~hgl@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  25. # [07:32] * Quits: MK (kawamori@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  26. # [07:37] * Quits: hgl_ (~hgl@public.cloak) (hgl_)
  27. # [07:38] * Joins: hgl (~hgl@public.cloak)
  28. # [07:49] * Joins: MK (kawamori@public.cloak)
  29. # [07:52] * Joins: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak)
  30. # [07:52] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] TakayoshiKochi opened pull request #2041: Filter black-listed elements that do not support createShadowRoot(). (master...createshadow-blacklist) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/2041
  31. # [07:52] * Parts: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak)
  32. # [08:04] * Quits: MK (kawamori@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  33. # [08:20] * Joins: jyasskin (~textual@public.cloak)
  34. # [08:31] * Joins: MK (kawamori@public.cloak)
  35. # [08:40] * Quits: MK (kawamori@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  36. # [08:53] * Joins: MK (kawamori@public.cloak)
  37. # [09:05] * Quits: burnik (~burnik@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  38. # [09:12] * Joins: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak)
  39. # [09:12] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] hayatoito closed pull request #2041: Filter black-listed elements that do not support createShadowRoot(). (master...createshadow-blacklist) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/2041
  40. # [09:12] * Parts: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak)
  41. # [09:15] * Joins: burnik (~burnik@public.cloak)
  42. # [09:33] * Quits: MK (kawamori@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  43. # [09:44] * Joins: MK (kawamori@public.cloak)
  44. # [09:53] * Quits: jyasskin (~textual@public.cloak) ("My computer has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…")
  45. # [09:53] * Quits: MK (kawamori@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  46. # [10:15] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@public.cloak)
  47. # [10:23] * Joins: scottgonzale (~scott_gonzalez@public.cloak)
  48. # [10:28] * Quits: scott_gonzalez (~scott_gonzalez@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  49. # [11:20] * Quits: playjax (~chatzilla@public.cloak) ("ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 32.0.1/20140911151253]")
  50. # [11:32] <jgraham> I really wish we were confident enough in wptrunner to tell people to use that rather than the in-browser harness
  51. # [11:32] <jgraham> I also wich someone else wanted to fix the in-browser harness…
  52. # [11:33] <jgraham> *wish
  53. # [12:00] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak)
  54. # [12:11] <MikeSmith> jgraham: What needs to be fixed in the in-browser harness?
  55. # [12:19] <MikeSmith> botie: tell cvrebert your rate of wpt PRs has slowed considerably. Time to pick up the pace, please
  56. # [12:19] <botie> will do
  57. # [12:29] <jgraham> MikeSmith: It seems like the reftest support broke at some point. Probably when the reftest format changed
  58. # [12:32] <MikeSmith> ok, well that seems fixable
  59. # [12:33] <MikeSmith> in theory
  60. # [12:34] <MikeSmith> I'd volunteer to fix it myself if I knew jack about reftests or cared enough about them
  61. # [12:34] * Joins: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak)
  62. # [12:34] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] Ms2ger closed pull request #1627: Extend the withCredentials test. (master...withCredentials) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1627
  63. # [12:34] * Parts: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak)
  64. # [12:34] <jgraham> It is fixable
  65. # [12:35] <MikeSmith> jgraham: I thought you were saying there was and deeper existential problem with the in-browser runner
  66. # [12:37] <MikeSmith> I think the in-browser runner is important for the concrete connection that it helps to give less-technical people to understand the value of the overall work
  67. # [12:37] <jgraham> The deeper existential problem is that I don't use it and no one else wants to maintain it :)
  68. # [12:38] <MikeSmith> Well I can help more
  69. # [12:38] <jgraham> On another topic:
  70. # [12:38] <jgraham> Ms2ger: Had any thoughts?
  71. # [12:40] <MikeSmith> normal people connect well with push-buttons-see-something-happen
  72. # [12:40] <MikeSmith> it's helpful to us to have something for them
  73. # [12:41] <jgraham> I guess. I sort of imagine they would also connect well with "see lots of tests running automatically"
  74. # [12:47] <jgraham> Oh right, so fundamentally the problem here is that the runner can't cope with reftests that have > 1 reference
  75. # [12:51] * Joins: playjax (~chatzilla@public.cloak)
  76. # [12:51] <gsnedders> jgraham: what's the point of fixing the in-browser harness? we should just kill it, no?
  77. # [12:51] <gsnedders> what's the use case?
  78. # [12:52] <gsnedders> tbf that's been my view all along :P
  79. # [12:52] <MikeSmith> gsnedders: did you read what I wrote above?
  80. # [12:52] <jgraham> gsnedders: According to MikeSmith people find it comforting
  81. # [12:53] <MikeSmith> Jesus
  82. # [12:53] <Ms2ger> jgraham, not yet
  83. # [12:53] <Ms2ger> But I do think the in-browser runner is useful
  84. # [12:53] <jgraham> MikeSmith: I'm not saying you're wrong!
  85. # [12:54] <Ms2ger> Not everyone wants to install a stack of command-line tools to run a few dozen tests
  86. # [12:54] <jgraham> I'm just grumpy that it's broken and non-trivial to fix
  87. # [12:55] <gsnedders> Ms2ger: but I'm not sure the browser runner makes it easier to do so?
  88. # [12:55] <Ms2ger> I sure would hope so!
  89. # [12:56] <jgraham> I would sort of prefer to spend the effort on making the actual harness more accessible
  90. # [12:56] <MikeSmith> jgraham: Yeah, I think it's useful to remind ourselves now and then that there are another 7 billion people in our world who have never worked for a browser project nor done testing/QA of any kind personally
  91. # [12:57] <MikeSmith> *professionally
  92. # [12:57] <jgraham> Roughly 7 billion of those have no interest in running browser tests under any circumstances
  93. # [12:58] <MikeSmith> Well sometimes a couple wander in
  94. # [12:58] <jgraham> I mean honestly for the people that we care about it could be arbitarily hard as long as it involved node somehow and they wouldn't complain a jot
  95. # [12:59] <MikeSmith> don't make me despair please
  96. # [12:59] <MikeSmith> I am plenty enough nihilistic on my own
  97. # [13:00] <jgraham> That is, unfortunately, a real attitude I have seen
  98. # [13:01] <jgraham> Although it is probably unfair to say that everyone we care about is like that :)
  99. # [13:02] <MikeSmith> let's try to find somebody who does care enough about it, and help them use whatever skills they have to make something slightly better
  100. # [13:05] <jgraham> Basically someone needs to convert the algorithm at https://github.com/w3c/wptrunner/blob/master/wptrunner/executors/base.py#L242 to the runner
  101. # [13:06] <jgraham> And https://github.com/w3c/wptrunner/blob/master/wptrunner/wpttest.py#L251
  102. # [13:06] <gsnedders> we should write a GUI for wptrunner! ;P
  103. # [13:33] * Quits: scottgonzale (~scott_gonzalez@public.cloak) (scottgonzale)
  104. # [14:01] * Joins: ArtB (~ArtB@public.cloak)
  105. # [14:02] * Joins: plh (plehegar@public.cloak)
  106. # [14:16] * Quits: playjax (~chatzilla@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  107. # [14:16] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  108. # [14:16] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak)
  109. # [14:52] * Joins: gamekathu (~gamekathu@public.cloak)
  110. # [15:03] * Quits: gamekathu (~gamekathu@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  111. # [15:17] <ato> MikeSmith: Who's maintaining ReSpec now?
  112. # [15:21] <Ms2ger> Hahaha
  113. # [15:26] <ato> Someone made a change that deprecates @title and introduces a @lt attribute on <dfn>, which makes the validator complain.
  114. # [15:27] <ato> Ms2ger: Contrary to popular belief, there are actually people who like it.
  115. # [15:28] <Ms2ger> Oh, people do like it
  116. # [15:28] <Ms2ger> But they're wrong
  117. # [15:35] <MikeSmith> ato: I dunno who maintains ReSpec now. I do know that one of the RDFa fascisti got fingers into it (and it's now got RDFa poison) and sadly he may actually be the most active contributor to it now.
  118. # [15:36] <MikeSmith> ato: for better or worse, Bikeshed is where the rest of our fellow travelers have moved, and where the (sane) active development it
  119. # [15:37] <MikeSmith> and Tab is massively responsive to issue reports and enhancement requests for Bikeshed
  120. # [15:37] <MikeSmith> wait
  121. # [15:37] <MikeSmith> "deprecates @title and introduces a @lt attribute on <dfn>"
  122. # [15:37] <MikeSmith> that has the smell of our RDFa friend about it
  123. # [15:38] <ato> Yes, so the problem with that change is that it will complain if you send your document to for example https://validator.nu.
  124. # [15:38] <MikeSmith> fucking hell https://github.com/w3c/respec/commit/85e2f950d69028a7300033fa05aee3281a64c0db
  125. # [15:39] <ato> Otherwise it's not a totally bad change, although I can see use cases for not deprecating @title also.
  126. # [15:39] <ato> Thanks, I'll follow up there.
  127. # [15:40] <ato> (What I don't like about bikeshed, which I'm sure otherwise is an excellent program, is that it requires a processing step.)
  128. # [15:40] <MikeSmith> ato: yeah, same here
  129. # [15:44] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  130. # [15:46] <MikeSmith> ato: btw were you saying that Respec making an instance of dfn@title emit an error message and requiring use of dfn@lt instead is not a totally bad change?
  131. # [15:47] <MikeSmith> on the face of it I don't understand what is good at all about it, or what problem it's meant to solve
  132. # [15:48] <ato> I meant to say that <a title="foo">bar</a> now emits a warning, and that pre-defining commonly used conjugations/plurals for definitions on the surface of it doesn't seem like such a bad idea.
  133. # [15:48] <ato> But I haven't given it much thought.
  134. # [15:49] <MikeSmith> ok
  135. # [15:54] <ato> MikeSmith: https://github.com/w3c/respec/commit/85e2f950d69028a7300033fa05aee3281a64c0db#commitcomment-12444223
  136. # [15:57] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak)
  137. # [16:07] <MikeSmith> ato: thanks
  138. # [16:30] * Quits: plh (plehegar@public.cloak) ("Leaving")
  139. # [16:31] * Joins: Nana (~Nana@public.cloak)
  140. # [16:33] * Quits: Nana (~Nana@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
  141. # [16:49] * Quits: hgl (~hgl@public.cloak) (hgl)
  142. # [16:49] * Joins: hgl (~hgl@public.cloak)
  143. # [17:06] * Joins: jyasskin (~textual@public.cloak)
  144. # [17:29] * Quits: lmclister______ (~sid13822@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  145. # [17:29] * Quits: scheib (~sid4467@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  146. # [17:29] * Quits: timeless (~sid4015@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  147. # [17:29] * Quits: mkwst (~sid395@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  148. # [17:29] * Quits: frewsxcv (~sid86219@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  149. # [17:29] * Quits: bret (~sid12421@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  150. # [17:32] * Joins: mkwst (~sid395@public.cloak)
  151. # [17:37] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@public.cloak) ("My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…")
  152. # [17:51] * Joins: timeless (~sid4015@public.cloak)
  153. # [17:54] * Joins: scheib (~sid4467@public.cloak)
  154. # [17:55] * Quits: krit (~sid15081@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  155. # [18:03] * Joins: bhill2 (~bhill2@public.cloak)
  156. # [18:13] * Joins: bret (~sid12421@public.cloak)
  157. # [18:14] * Joins: lmclister______ (~sid13822@public.cloak)
  158. # [18:21] * Joins: krit (~sid15081@public.cloak)
  159. # [18:30] * terri_offline is now known as terri
  160. # [18:33] * Joins: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak)
  161. # [18:33] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] Ms2ger opened pull request #2043: Add a test for invalid utf-8 in workers. (master...worker-invalid-utf8) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/2043
  162. # [18:33] * Parts: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak)
  163. # [18:53] * Quits: bhill2 (~bhill2@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  164. # [18:56] * Joins: frewsxcv (~sid86219@public.cloak)
  165. # [19:03] * Joins: bhill2 (~bhill2@public.cloak)
  166. # [19:24] * Quits: bhill2 (~bhill2@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  167. # [19:24] * Quits: jyasskin (~textual@public.cloak) ("My computer has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…")
  168. # [19:35] * Joins: bhill2 (~bhill2@public.cloak)
  169. # [19:40] * Joins: jyasskin (~textual@public.cloak)
  170. # [19:49] * Quits: jyasskin (~textual@public.cloak) ("My computer has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…")
  171. # [20:53] <jyasskin_w> The @lt thing is also required by Bikeshed.
  172. # [21:53] <ato> jyasskin_w: Yes, this was pointed out to me in https://github.com/w3c/respec/commit/85e2f950d69028a7300033fa05aee3281a64c0db
  173. # [21:54] <ato> jyasskin_w: The more compelling argument is that using @title might conflict with A11y requirements.
  174. # [22:26] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  175. # [22:36] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@public.cloak)
  176. # [22:47] * Quits: rego (~smuxi@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  177. # [23:03] * Quits: ArtB (~ArtB@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
  178. # [23:06] * Joins: scottgonzalez (~scott_gonzalez@public.cloak)
  179. # [23:08] * Quits: scottgonzalez (~scott_gonzalez@public.cloak) (scottgonzalez)
  180. # [23:17] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@public.cloak) ("My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…")
  181. # [23:17] * Joins: ArtB (~ArtB@public.cloak)
  182. # [23:21] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak) ("nn")
  183. # [23:29] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@public.cloak)
  184. # [23:36] * Quits: bhill2 (~bhill2@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  185. # [23:55] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  186. # Session Close: Fri Jul 31 00:00:01 2015

Previous day, Next day

Think these logs are useful? Then please donate to show your gratitude (and keep them up, of course). Thanks! — Krijn