/irc-logs / w3c / #webapps / 2008-12-17 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Dec 17 00:00:01 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #webapps
  3. # [00:07] * Joins: heycam (cam@130.194.72.84)
  4. # [00:08] <Hixie> heycam: i would appreciate your review of my last html5 checkin -- http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=2535&to=2536
  5. # [00:08] <Hixie> heycam: in particular, please be as anal about the terminology as possible
  6. # [00:08] <Hixie> heycam: as once i got that batch right, i'm going to start shoving that terminology all over the spec
  7. # [00:09] <heycam> ok cool, i'll take a look at it this afternoon
  8. # [00:10] <Hixie> thanks
  9. # [00:11] <sicking> heycam, does the WebIDL spec currently define what to do about the whole mess of default behaviour when passing null to a function that takes a string?
  10. # [00:11] <sicking> heycam, as well as other weird conversions, such as passing NaN/Infinity/-1 to a function that takes an unsigned int
  11. # [00:12] <heycam> sicking, there's a default behaviour of converting null to "null", unless overridden with a [Null] extended attribute
  12. # [00:13] <heycam> http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/WebIDL/Overview.html#es-DOMString
  13. # [00:13] <sicking> heycam, so we'd have to amend all the DOM-Core methods that take a string but defines behavior for null?
  14. # [00:13] <heycam> for unsigned longs, it says to just convert them to ToUint32
  15. # [00:13] <heycam> http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/WebIDL/Overview.html#es-unsigned-long
  16. # [00:14] * sicking would prefer to stick with the mozilla strategy, unsurprisingly
  17. # [00:14] <heycam> sicking, yeah that's a downside to the current choice of default
  18. # [00:15] <heycam> what's the mozilla strategy for converting to an unsigned long?
  19. # [00:15] <sicking> no, i mean for null->string
  20. # [00:16] <heycam> oh, ok
  21. # [00:16] <sicking> where we basically say that null is a valid string value that doesn't need conversion
  22. # [00:16] <heycam> that is the stance i took, too
  23. # [00:16] <sicking> which is generally treated as empty string, unless something else is indicated
  24. # [00:17] <sicking> i don't know what we do for unsigned longs
  25. # [00:17] <sicking> is ToUint32(V) an ECMA thing?
  26. # [00:17] <heycam> so you'd suggest to change the default handling of null for DOMStrings to convert to an empty string, and have xattrs change that to keeping a null or converting it to the string "null" as required?
  27. # [00:17] <heycam> sicking, yeah
  28. # [00:18] <sicking> heycam, sort of yeah. Though conversion to 'null' seems like it would never be required
  29. # [00:19] <heycam> i haven't encountered a method that does require that
  30. # [00:19] <heycam> but it is way null stringifies
  31. # [00:19] <heycam> *the way
  32. # [00:19] <sicking> heycam, and technically speaking you wouldn't need xattrs for keeping null-as-null either, you could always do that and in prose describe what to do. Though that might be more error prone
  33. # [00:20] <heycam> sicking, so you'd recommend removing [Null] altogether, defaulting to conversion to empty string, and letting it be overridden in prose?
  34. # [00:20] <sicking> well, you could argue that no stringification occurs, i.e. null is considered a valid DOMString value. But I agree that that is spec-juggling
  35. # [00:21] <heycam> another bad thing about [Null] is that it's somewhat of a visual blight in IDL
  36. # [00:22] <sicking> so first off, any changes here will very likely need browser buy-in. Though that is equally the case for the current draft
  37. # [00:22] <sicking> since we're talking about some pretty big changes to one or more browsers
  38. # [00:22] <heycam> sicking, this is just changes to how these things are expressed in the IDL though
  39. # [00:23] <heycam> those writing the interfaces are free to write their IDL to describe current practice
  40. # [00:23] <sicking> well, ultimately what we do as default in the IDL i think will be what most functions will use
  41. # [00:23] <heycam> *unless* you want to interpret already-published IDL with Web IDL
  42. # [00:23] <heycam> ok
  43. # [00:24] <sicking> no, i think we don't have to interpret current IDL as webidl. But I do think that the default behavior matters a lot still
  44. # [00:25] <heycam> ok. i think it's a reasonable argument that since treating null as empty string is most common, that that should be the default.
  45. # [00:26] <heycam> might do some testing over the holidays to check that that's actually the case
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  47. # [00:37] <sicking> heycam, cool
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  67. # [12:23] <heycam> hi ArtB
  68. # [13:05] <ArtB> heycam, Hi Cameron
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The end :)