/irc-logs / w3c / #webapps / 2009-07-01 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Jul 01 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #webapps
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  100. # [23:07] * Joins: Travis (836b0052@128.30.52.43)
  101. # [23:07] <Travis> howdy folks
  102. # [23:09] <smaug> Travis: hi
  103. # [23:09] <smaug> Travis: no call today?
  104. # [23:09] <Travis> I thought there was one...?
  105. # [23:10] * smaug haven't got any email
  106. # [23:10] <Travis> :(
  107. # [23:10] <smaug> I thought so too
  108. # [23:10] * Joins: MSjacob (836b0049@128.30.52.43)
  109. # [23:11] * Joins: dand (danilatos@124.170.166.82)
  110. # [23:11] <smaug> shepazu: ?
  111. # [23:12] <dand> hey guys
  112. # [23:12] <dand> is the telecon going?
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  114. # [23:12] <MSjacob> Travis and I are on the conference call. But I think we're the only ones.
  115. # [23:13] <shepazu> trackbot, start telcon
  116. # [23:13] * trackbot is starting a teleconference
  117. # [23:13] * Joins: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.30)
  118. # [23:13] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/07/01-webapps-irc
  119. # [23:13] <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
  120. # [23:13] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, trackbot
  121. # [23:13] * Joins: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
  122. # [23:13] <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAPP
  123. # [23:13] <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
  124. # [23:13] <trackbot> Meeting: Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
  125. # [23:13] <trackbot> Date: 01 July 2009
  126. # [23:13] * shepazu zakim, call shepazu
  127. # [23:13] * Zakim sorry, shepazu, I don't know what conference this is
  128. # [23:13] <shepazu> Zakim, this will be DOM3
  129. # [23:13] <Zakim> ok, shepazu, I see IA_WebApps(DOM3)5:00PM already started
  130. # [23:13] * shepazu zakim, call shepazu
  131. # [23:13] * Zakim ok, shepazu; the call is being made
  132. # [23:13] <Zakim> +Shepazu
  133. # [23:14] <dand> Is it the same # as before i guess?
  134. # [23:14] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
  135. # [23:14] <shepazu> zakim, code?
  136. # [23:14] <Zakim> the conference code is 3663 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), shepazu
  137. # [23:14] <smaug> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
  138. # [23:14] <Zakim> +smaug; got it
  139. # [23:14] <dand> cheers
  140. # [23:15] * Quits: Marcin (mhanclik_@82.207.140.22) (Ping timeout)
  141. # [23:15] <Zakim> +??P11
  142. # [23:15] <shepazu> Zakim, ??P11 is dand
  143. # [23:15] <Zakim> +dand; got it
  144. # [23:16] * shepazu tests dand speakers
  145. # [23:17] <shepazu> scribenick: shepazu
  146. # [23:18] <shepazu> Topic: mutation events
  147. # [23:18] <shepazu> shepazu: there's been traffic on the list about testing mutation event speed
  148. # [23:19] <shepazu> ... useful info, but not directly actionable
  149. # [23:19] <shepazu> Topic: Events and Quirks Mode
  150. # [23:20] <shepazu> MSjacob: I wanted to hear feedback from implementers if there is special casing for quirks mode wrt events
  151. # [23:20] <shepazu> smaug: I don't know of any special casing in Gecko
  152. # [23:20] <shepazu> ... does IE
  153. # [23:20] <shepazu> MSjacob: not currently
  154. # [23:21] <shepazu> Travis: we're working out our general compat story for IE9
  155. # [23:21] <shepazu> ... good to know we don't have to worry about any special casing
  156. # [23:21] <shepazu> Topic: IME
  157. # [23:22] <shepazu> dand: still waiting on feedback from chromium guy
  158. # [23:23] <shepazu> shepazu: there was discussion on the mailing list from Nakano-san
  159. # [23:23] <shepazu> dand: that's more to do with positioning the IME window, not necessarily related to events
  160. # [23:24] <shepazu> shepazu: yes, good discussion to have, but not necessarily stuff that needs to be in the D3E spec
  161. # [23:25] <shepazu> Topic: native selection
  162. # [23:26] <shepazu> dand: when you select text in a browser in an editable or non-editable regions, it would be nice to have selection events
  163. # [23:26] <shepazu> Travis: good question, not sure what HTML5 has added for editing events
  164. # [23:27] <Hixie> nothing added for editing events so far
  165. # [23:27] <shepazu> ... IE does have some selection events, which we aren't particularly proud of...
  166. # [23:27] <Hixie> mostly i've been waiting to see what happens with mutation events and whether anyone makes any proposals (the chrome team in particular has indicated they have some proposals they want to make this quarter regarding editing apis and events)
  167. # [23:27] <Hixie> hth
  168. # [23:28] <shepazu> ... we have onselectstart and onselectchange, which do mostly the same thing
  169. # [23:29] <shepazu> ... Mozilla has onselect that fires when you are done selecting, which IE doesn't have, but we really want it
  170. # [23:29] <shepazu> ... selectionchange is interesting, but unintuitive
  171. # [23:29] <dand> @hixie, thanks. maybe i'll bring an idea they had up now after the selection conversation
  172. # [23:30] <shepazu> Travis: I'm not sure DOM3 Events is the right place for these, might be better in HTML5
  173. # [23:31] <shepazu> Travis: my rationale is that D3E focuses on DOM changes, while HTML has more editing stuff
  174. # [23:31] <shepazu> dand: what about key events
  175. # [23:32] <shepazu> Travis: we could put the selection events in D3E, but there's a lot of editing prose in HTML5, and there would need to be close coordination
  176. # [23:32] * Quits: gsnedders (gsnedders@83.252.197.137) (Quit: gsnedders)
  177. # [23:33] <shepazu> ... but my chief concern is that we want to finish DOM3 Events quickly, so I'd hesitate to add new stuff to it
  178. # [23:33] <shepazu> shepazu: I agree
  179. # [23:36] <shepazu> Topic: Review of DOM3 Events
  180. # [23:36] <shepazu> shepazu: I really want to move to LC as soon as possible...
  181. # [23:36] <shepazu> shepazu: please send in all actionable comments about the DOM3 Events spec, and I will make those edits
  182. # [23:37] <shepazu> action: smaug to comment on D3E
  183. # [23:37] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  184. # [23:37] * RRSAgent records action 1
  185. # [23:37] <trackbot> Created ACTION-373 - Comment on D3E [on Olli Pettay - due 2009-07-08].
  186. # [23:37] <shepazu> action: Travis to comment on D3E
  187. # [23:37] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  188. # [23:37] * RRSAgent records action 2
  189. # [23:37] <trackbot> Created ACTION-374 - Comment on D3E [on Travis Leithead - due 2009-07-08].
  190. # [23:37] <shepazu> action: MSjacob to comment on D3E
  191. # [23:37] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  192. # [23:37] * RRSAgent records action 3
  193. # [23:37] <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - MSjacob
  194. # [23:40] <shepazu> Topic: onbeforeinput
  195. # [23:41] <shepazu> dand: we're experimenting with this in Chrome
  196. # [23:41] <shepazu> s/experimenting/discussing this/
  197. # [23:44] <shepazu> ... one of the problems with contenteditable is that user-triggered actions only in generic mutations events, not reflecting the user intent
  198. # [23:44] <shepazu> ... I'll write up a more detailed explanation
  199. # [23:44] <shepazu> smaug: what about paste and drag and other UI events?
  200. # [23:45] <shepazu> dand: yes, you end up having to listen to a large number of events that are irrelevant
  201. # [23:45] <shepazu> Travis: are you looking to have something that notifies you after the change has occurred
  202. # [23:46] <shepazu> dand: it would be good to find out that something is about to happen, then after it is ended
  203. # [23:47] <shepazu> ... I think we can cover most of the existing mutation event use cases
  204. # [23:47] <shepazu> ... it would tell you that something happened, and why it happened (paste, undo, etc.)
  205. # [23:48] <shepazu> ... I know there is something similar in HTML5
  206. # [23:48] <shepazu> smaug: even hixie is not fond of that
  207. # [23:48] <Hixie> what am i not fond of? :-)
  208. # [23:49] <MSjacob> @hixie: events similar to undo in the HTML5 spec
  209. # [23:49] <smaug> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#undo
  210. # [23:49] <shepazu> s/that/the HTML5 writeup for undo, etc./
  211. # [23:49] <smaug> Hixie: UndoManager
  212. # [23:50] <Hixie> yeah i'm no fan of the undo manager
  213. # [23:50] <shepazu> Travis: if I knew that I was listening to a text input event, I could intercept, say, drop events
  214. # [23:51] <shepazu> ... this becomes less useful when complex editing behavior is defined, but still may be useful
  215. # [23:53] <shepazu> dand: do people think it's a good idea to account for all events that arise from user interaction with the page?
  216. # [23:54] <shepazu> Travis: yes, we should have a clear motivation for each event, and explain all the results of user interactions
  217. # [23:55] <shepazu> ... a guiding principle behind when you would want to use any particular event
  218. # [23:55] <shepazu> action: Travis to start writeup of guiding principles for event usage
  219. # [23:55] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  220. # [23:55] * RRSAgent records action 4
  221. # [23:55] <trackbot> Created ACTION-375 - Start writeup of guiding principles for event usage [on Travis Leithead - due 2009-07-08].
  222. # [23:59] <shepazu> dand: I'd like to see those principles
  223. # Session Close: Thu Jul 02 00:00:00 2009

The end :)