/irc-logs / w3c / #webapps / 2009-09-10 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Thu Sep 10 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #webapps
  3. # [00:01] <smaug> Topic: webidl
  4. # [00:02] <smaug> shepazu: I was thinking to use webidl in the spec
  5. # [00:02] <smaug> Travis: do it!
  6. # [00:02] <smaug> Travis: make sure to use the latest editor's draft
  7. # [00:04] <shepazu> Topic: vendor extensions
  8. # [00:04] <smaug> smaug: I agree, use webidl
  9. # [00:06] <smaug> Travis: why are we adding namespaces to the spec?
  10. # [00:07] <smaug> shepazu: I'd have to go and look back about de-centralization
  11. # [00:07] <smaug> shepazu: having namespace support allows people to add their own events
  12. # [00:08] <smaug> shepazu: JS libraries can add their own events
  13. # [00:08] <smaug> shepazu: Anne would like to remove namespaces
  14. # [00:09] <annevk> I brought it up a few times, I'm certainly not the only one
  15. # [00:09] * Quits: heycam (cam@210.84.56.211) (Quit: bye)
  16. # [00:09] <annevk> e.g. I'm pretty sure Maciej agrees with me
  17. # [00:10] <smaug> Travis: so web pages can implement their own events without interfering with others
  18. # [00:10] <annevk> and Ian, etc. see the old threads
  19. # [00:10] <smaug> Travis: though, isn't prefix + event name the same thing.
  20. # [00:11] <smaug> as namespace + event name
  21. # [00:12] <smaug> Travis: I'll have our team reviewing the draft
  22. # [00:14] <smaug> shepazu: the draft has been around for a long time, and namespaces have been there
  23. # [00:14] <smaug> Travis: I think it is ok to keep namespaces
  24. # [00:15] <smaug> Travis: vendors could continue to use prefixes, or use namespaces
  25. # [00:15] <annevk> shepazu, objections to namespaces have likewise been around for a long time
  26. # [00:15] <annevk> that's not a reason :)
  27. # [00:16] <shepazu> annevk, people use them in production code, that is a reason
  28. # [00:16] <shepazu> Topic: keyboard layout
  29. # [00:16] <annevk> not on web sites
  30. # [00:16] <annevk> there's no browser that is shipping with namespace support
  31. # [00:16] <annevk> there's no reason for us to implement them
  32. # [00:16] <shepazu> annevk, if you want to join the telcon, then do so
  33. # [00:16] <smaug> (the world is not just about browser)
  34. # [00:16] <smaug> (the world is not just about browsers)
  35. # [00:17] <smaug> shepazu: there is the case where people are using keyboard layout
  36. # [00:17] <annevk> shepazu, midnight here
  37. # [00:17] <smaug> shepazu: and we did decide that we don't cover that
  38. # [00:18] <smaug> shepazu: but I added something about keyboard layout
  39. # [00:18] <annevk> (not sure what that has to do with anything)
  40. # [00:18] <smaug> shepazu: I have the idea for another spec to define keyboard layout handling in web page
  41. # [00:19] <smaug> shepazu: the keyboard layout section is just a hint for authors
  42. # [00:19] <smaug> shepazu: any objections to put that
  43. # [00:19] <smaug> Travis: I like it
  44. # [00:19] <smaug> shepazu: I'll mark it as informative
  45. # [00:20] <shepazu> Topic: DOMContentLoaded, DOMWindowClose, and AfterPaint
  46. # [00:21] <smaug> smaug: DOMContentLoaded is already defined in HTML5
  47. # [00:21] <smaug> shepazu: SVG would benefit it
  48. # [00:22] <smaug> shepazu: there is a good reason to have events for "everything is in place" and "page is rendered"
  49. # [00:24] <smaug> Travis: we were looking at DOMContentLoaded
  50. # [00:26] <smaug> Travis: HTML5 doesn't define whether DOMContentLoaded before or after loading CSS
  51. # [00:27] <smaug> Travis: jQuery people wanted to have an event for "CSS loaded"
  52. # [00:27] <smaug> Travis: maybe CSSContentLoaded?
  53. # [00:30] <smaug> smaug: there is the readyState for document
  54. # [00:31] <smaug> smaug: maybe that kind of mechanism could be reused
  55. # [00:31] <smaug> Travis: I'll post something to mailing list
  56. # [00:31] <smaug> shepazu: I'd call it StyleContentLoaded
  57. # [00:32] <smaug> smaug: StyleContentLoaded sounds useful, but should go to HTML5
  58. # [00:33] <smaug> Topic: other things
  59. # [00:33] <smaug> Travis: about resize event
  60. # [00:34] <smaug> Travis: only IE supports resize on elements
  61. # [00:35] <smaug> Travis: IE fires it for example when <div> is resized.
  62. # [00:37] <smaug> shepazu: could you send an email to the list
  63. # [00:37] <smaug> smaug: resize on elements might be implement on gecko soon
  64. # [00:40] <smaug> Travis: .detail on resize?
  65. # [00:40] <smaug> smaug: on gecko they are just normal events
  66. # [00:41] <smaug> Travis: should composition events bubble?
  67. # [00:41] <smaug> smaug: I think they do on gecko
  68. # [00:41] <smaug> Travis: what about cancelling them?
  69. # [00:42] <smaug> shepazu: maybe they can't be cancellable
  70. # [00:42] <smaug> shepazu: not sure if browser can control IME
  71. # [00:43] <smaug> Travis: you definitely don't want to cancel the compositionend
  72. # [00:44] <smaug> shepazu: but what if someone cancel composition
  73. # [00:45] <smaug> shepazu: should ask masayuki about composition events
  74. # [00:45] * smaug notices it is getting a bit late in Finland
  75. # [00:46] <smaug> shepazu: there many different kinds of IMEs
  76. # [00:47] <smaug> shepazu: maybe compostionupdate should not be cancelable, others should
  77. # [00:48] <smaug> Travis: cancelling compositionstart should prevent IME?
  78. # [00:48] <smaug> Travis: default action is to launch IME
  79. # [00:49] <smaug> Travis: compostionupdate could be not cancelable for now, unless there is some usecase
  80. # [00:49] <smaug> Travis: end would be cancelable
  81. # [00:51] * Joins: heycam (cam@130.194.72.84)
  82. # [00:56] <smaug> smaug: would be good to be able cancel compositionend
  83. # [00:56] <smaug> shepazu: I think we agreed about canceling events
  84. # [00:57] <smaug> Travis: add a row for all the events about default actions
  85. # [00:58] <smaug> ACTION: travis to send email about StyleContentLoaded
  86. # [00:58] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  87. # [00:58] * RRSAgent records action 2
  88. # [00:58] <trackbot> Created ACTION-402 - Send email about StyleContentLoaded [on Travis Leithead - due 2009-09-16].
  89. # [00:58] <smaug> ACTION: travis to send email about resize event
  90. # [00:58] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  91. # [00:58] * RRSAgent records action 3
  92. # [00:58] <trackbot> Created ACTION-403 - Send email about resize event [on Travis Leithead - due 2009-09-16].
  93. # [00:59] <smaug> ACTION: travis to send email about namespaces, and vendor prefixes
  94. # [00:59] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  95. # [00:59] * RRSAgent records action 4
  96. # [00:59] <trackbot> Created ACTION-404 - Send email about namespaces, and vendor prefixes [on Travis Leithead - due 2009-09-16].
  97. # [01:00] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  98. # [01:00] <Zakim> -smaug
  99. # [01:00] <Zakim> -Shepazu
  100. # [01:00] <Zakim> IA_WebApps(DOM3)5:00PM has ended
  101. # [01:00] <shepazu> trackbot, end telcon
  102. # [01:00] * trackbot is ending a teleconference
  103. # [01:00] <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
  104. # [01:00] <Zakim> Attendees were Shepazu, smaug, [Microsoft]
  105. # [01:00] <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
  106. # [01:00] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/09-webapps-minutes.html trackbot
  107. # [01:00] <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
  108. # [01:00] <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
  109. # [01:00] <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/09-webapps-actions.rdf :
  110. # [01:00] <RRSAgent> ACTION: smaug to check gecko's key event handling during composition events [1]
  111. # [01:00] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/09-webapps-irc#T21-15-50
  112. # [01:00] <RRSAgent> ACTION: travis to send email about StyleContentLoaded [2]
  113. # [01:00] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/09-webapps-irc#T22-52-26
  114. # [01:00] <RRSAgent> ACTION: travis to send email about resize event [3]
  115. # [01:00] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/09-webapps-irc#T22-52-36
  116. # [01:00] <RRSAgent> ACTION: travis to send email about namespaces, and vendor prefixes [4]
  117. # [01:00] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/09-webapps-irc#T22-53-18
  118. # [01:00] * Parts: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.30)
  119. # [01:13] * Quits: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.169) (Quit: tlr)
  120. # [01:32] * Quits: annevk (opera@83.85.115.44) (Quit: annevk)
  121. # [01:45] * Quits: gsnedders (gsnedders@217.44.35.222) (Client exited)
  122. # [02:19] * Joins: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org)
  123. # [02:19] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org) (Client exited)
  124. # [02:20] * Joins: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org)
  125. # [03:00] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
  126. # [03:00] * Parts: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
  127. # [03:08] * Joins: gsnedders (gsnedders@217.44.35.222)
  128. # [04:32] * Quits: smaug (chatzilla@82.181.147.181) (Client exited)
  129. # [06:02] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org) (Quit: Tomorrow to fresh woods, and pastures new.)
  130. # [06:08] * Joins: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org)
  131. # [07:08] * Quits: barklund (barklund@83.221.139.150) (Ping timeout)
  132. # [07:08] * Quits: Marcos (Marcos@213.236.208.22) (Ping timeout)
  133. # [07:11] * Joins: Marcos (Marcos@213.236.208.22)
  134. # [07:11] * Joins: barklund (barklund@83.221.139.150)
  135. # [07:47] * Joins: arve (arve@213.236.208.22)
  136. # [09:29] * Quits: gsnedders (gsnedders@217.44.35.222) (Client exited)
  137. # [09:33] * Quits: heycam (cam@130.194.72.84) (Quit: bye)
  138. # [09:51] * Joins: heycam (cam@210.84.56.211)
  139. # [10:20] * Joins: smaug (chatzilla@82.181.147.181)
  140. # [11:43] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org) (Quit: Tomorrow to fresh woods, and pastures new.)
  141. # [11:50] * Quits: barklund (barklund@83.221.139.150) (Ping timeout)
  142. # [11:50] * Quits: smaug (chatzilla@82.181.147.181) (Ping timeout)
  143. # [11:50] * Joins: barklund (barklund@83.221.139.150)
  144. # [11:59] * Joins: smaug (chatzilla@82.181.147.181)
  145. # [12:06] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@85.196.122.246) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  146. # [12:14] * Joins: darobin (robin@95.74.177.63)
  147. # [12:16] * Joins: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.169)
  148. # [12:18] * Joins: zalan (kvirc@89.135.144.193)
  149. # [12:19] * Quits: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.169) (Client exited)
  150. # [12:28] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@213.236.208.22)
  151. # [12:30] * Joins: ArtB (d0309a43@128.30.52.43)
  152. # [12:30] * Quits: arve (arve@213.236.208.22) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  153. # [12:42] * Quits: timeless_mbp (timeless@88.115.8.36) (Quit: timeless_mbp)
  154. # [12:52] * Joins: gsnedders (gsnedders@217.44.35.222)
  155. # [13:34] * Joins: timeless_mbp (timeless@192.100.124.156)
  156. # [13:42] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@213.236.208.22) (Quit: Leaving)
  157. # [13:47] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@213.236.208.22)
  158. # [13:49] * Quits: darobin (robin@95.74.177.63) (Client exited)
  159. # [13:52] * Joins: annevk (opera@83.85.115.44)
  160. # [13:53] * Parts: annevk (opera@83.85.115.44)
  161. # [13:53] * Joins: annevk (opera@83.85.115.44)
  162. # [14:01] * Joins: arve (arve@212.251.175.125)
  163. # [14:03] <arve> ArtB: is there a european bride still, or is it completely gone?
  164. # [14:05] <arve> nevermind, I see that calling that bridge would be just as expensive
  165. # [14:08] <ArtB> Hi Arve, yes there is; I'll find the info and post it
  166. # [14:08] <ArtB> ... as well as include that info in future draft agendas
  167. # [14:09] <ArtB> I actually didn't know about it until I saw it in the DOM agenda that Doug posted yesterday
  168. # [14:10] <ArtB> +33.4.89.06.34.99 or +44.117.370.6152
  169. # [14:10] <ArtB> I haven't tried either of those numbers
  170. # [14:15] <arve> thanks
  171. # [14:15] <arve> I'm participating from home today, and thought that calling the US somehow would be more expensive
  172. # [14:16] <arve> turns out I use the house phone far too rarely
  173. # [14:16] <arve> because the price difference between calling French, UK and US number is nil
  174. # [14:48] * Quits: trackbot (trackbot@128.30.52.169) (Client exited)
  175. # [14:50] * Joins: trackbot (trackbot@128.30.52.169)
  176. # [14:58] * Joins: fhirsch (c0646811@128.30.52.43)
  177. # [15:00] * Quits: trackbot (trackbot@128.30.52.169) (Client exited)
  178. # [15:03] * Joins: trackbot (trackbot@128.30.52.169)
  179. # [15:13] * fhirsch zakim, what is the code?
  180. # [15:13] * fhirsch ha ha, zakim isn't here.
  181. # [15:17] <smaug> shepazu: ping
  182. # [15:20] * Quits: fhirsch (c0646811@128.30.52.43) (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
  183. # [15:26] <arve> short
  184. # [15:27] <arve> I've considered adding a completely automated call-in to the bridge
  185. # [15:27] <arve> I think my phone has the ability to pause before entering the conference code
  186. # [15:36] * Quits: Marcos (Marcos@213.236.208.22) (Ping timeout)
  187. # [15:42] * Joins: Marcos (Marcos@213.236.208.247)
  188. # [16:02] * Quits: Marcos (Marcos@213.236.208.247) (Quit: Marcos)
  189. # [16:06] * Joins: Marcos (Marcos@213.236.208.247)
  190. # [16:07] * Joins: Marcos_ (Marcos@213.236.208.22)
  191. # [16:09] * Quits: Marcos (Marcos@213.236.208.247) (Ping timeout)
  192. # [16:09] * Marcos_ is now known as Marcos
  193. # [16:12] * Joins: aroben (aroben@71.58.77.15)
  194. # [16:38] * Quits: Marcos (Marcos@213.236.208.22) (Quit: Marcos)
  195. # [17:08] * Quits: timeless_mbp (timeless@192.100.124.156) (Ping timeout)
  196. # [17:16] * Joins: timeless_mbp (timeless@192.100.124.156)
  197. # [17:19] * Joins: timeless_mbp_ (timeless@192.100.124.156)
  198. # [17:21] * Quits: timeless_mbp (timeless@192.100.124.156) (Ping timeout)
  199. # [17:21] * timeless_mbp_ is now known as timeless_mbp
  200. # [17:34] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@213.236.208.22) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  201. # [17:36] * Quits: annevk (opera@83.85.115.44) (Quit: annevk)
  202. # [17:40] * Quits: timeless_mbp (timeless@192.100.124.156) (Quit: timeless_mbp)
  203. # [17:47] * Quits: trackbot (trackbot@128.30.52.169) (Client exited)
  204. # [18:00] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@85.196.122.246)
  205. # [18:03] * Joins: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org)
  206. # [18:07] <shepazu> smaug: pong
  207. # [18:07] <smaug> shepazu: something about SVG
  208. # [18:07] <smaug> is xlink use only with a elements?
  209. # [18:07] <smaug> used
  210. # [18:07] <shepazu> smaug: depends on the language
  211. # [18:08] <shepazu> that's not a constraint from the XLink spec
  212. # [18:08] <smaug> right
  213. # [18:08] <smaug> but in SVG itself
  214. # [18:08] <shepazu> SVG uses it from <use> elements, and SMIL elements
  215. # [18:08] <smaug> ah, right
  216. # [18:08] <smaug> but only <a> as a link?
  217. # [18:09] <shepazu> correct
  218. # [18:09] * Joins: trackbot (trackbot@128.30.52.169)
  219. # [18:10] <shepazu> ah, we also use it on <image>, a few other places... but yes, as a link, only <a>
  220. # [18:11] <shepazu> smaug: but the SVG WG is looking at changing that... allowing bare @href
  221. # [18:11] * Quits: arve (arve@212.251.175.125) (Client exited)
  222. # [18:11] <smaug> ah, good
  223. # [18:21] * Joins: arve (arve@212.251.175.125)
  224. # [18:26] * Quits: Travis (836b0048@128.30.52.43) (Quit: CGI:IRC)
  225. # [19:31] <ArtB> Hixie, yt?
  226. # [19:31] <ArtB> Do you know if webreq is going to publish Web Storage and Web Database today?
  227. # [19:32] <ArtB> MikeSmith, do you know?
  228. # [19:43] * Quits: gsnedders (gsnedders@217.44.35.222) (Quit: Adios intarwebs.)
  229. # [19:58] <MikeSmith> ArtB: I'll check
  230. # [19:58] <MikeSmith> ArtB: Hixie's generally asleep around this time
  231. # [20:01] * Joins: gsnedders (gsnedders@217.44.35.222)
  232. # [20:05] <ArtB> as should you if you are in JP :)
  233. # [20:10] <MikeSmith> actually I guess this about the time when Hixie usually starts to come back around (I hadn't realized how late it was..)
  234. # [21:14] <arve> isn't this around lunch, california-time?
  235. # [21:18] * Quits: arve (arve@212.251.175.125) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  236. # [21:29] * Joins: arve (arve@212.251.175.125)
  237. # [22:04] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@85.196.122.246) (Quit: Leaving)
  238. # [22:05] * Quits: ArtB (d0309a43@128.30.52.43) (Quit: CGI:IRC)
  239. # [22:27] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@85.196.122.246)
  240. # [22:42] * Quits: zalan (kvirc@89.135.144.193) (Ping timeout)
  241. # [23:09] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org) (Ping timeout)
  242. # Session Close: Fri Sep 11 00:00:00 2009

The end :)