/irc-logs / w3c / #webapps / 2010-02-03 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Feb 03 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #webapps
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  41. # [14:35] * Topic is 'WebApps WG ; this channel is logged: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/'
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  67. # [19:01] <smaug> Strange, some of my emails don't show up in webapps mailing list
  68. # [20:00] <shepazu> smaug: oh, which ones?
  69. # [20:01] <shepazu> trackbot: start telcon
  70. # [20:01] * trackbot is starting a teleconference
  71. # [20:01] * Joins: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.169)
  72. # [20:01] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-webapps-irc
  73. # [20:01] <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
  74. # [20:01] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, trackbot
  75. # [20:01] * Joins: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
  76. # [20:01] <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DOM3
  77. # [20:01] <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_WebApps(DOM3)2:00PM scheduled to start now
  78. # [20:01] <trackbot> Meeting: Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
  79. # [20:01] <trackbot> Date: 03 February 2010
  80. # [20:01] <smaug> just a second
  81. # [20:01] * shepazu Zakim, call shepazu
  82. # [20:01] * Zakim ok, shepazu; the call is being made
  83. # [20:01] <Zakim> IA_WebApps(DOM3)2:00PM has now started
  84. # [20:01] <Zakim> +Shepazu
  85. # [20:01] <smaug> shepazu: I think some emails I sent also to G.Smith
  86. # [20:02] <Zakim> +??P0
  87. # [20:02] <smaug> Zakim, ??P0 is Olli_Pettay
  88. # [20:02] <Zakim> +Olli_Pettay; got it
  89. # [20:04] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  90. # [20:05] * Joins: Travis (836b0069@128.30.52.43)
  91. # [20:20] <Travis> scribe: travis
  92. # [20:20] <Travis> scribeNick: travis
  93. # [20:20] <Travis> Topic: Resize Event issues
  94. # [20:21] <Travis> <summary> IE fires a lot of resize events as users manipulate the browser frame.
  95. # [20:21] <Travis> ... previous versions of Gecko were more conservative (fired one resize after an interval)
  96. # [20:21] <Travis> ... new versions of Gecko attempt to fire resize as quickly as possible.
  97. # [20:22] <Travis> ... To prevent issues, a first resize event is dispatched synchronously, and subsequent events are async.
  98. # [20:22] <Travis> smaug: (something like that)
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  100. # [20:28] * tlr-bbiab is now known as tlr
  101. # [20:37] <Travis> travis: The resize event is async.
  102. # [20:37] <Travis> ... We should recommend that it be fired before paint, but not make it a hard requirement (otherwise, it's not really testable).
  103. # [20:38] <Travis> Topic: zoom
  104. # [20:38] <Travis> shepazu: most browsers allow a "page zoom."
  105. # [20:38] <Travis> ... different from text size changes
  106. # [20:42] * timeless_mbp looks for the conf number
  107. # [20:43] <smaug> 3663
  108. # [20:43] <Zakim> +Josh_Soref
  109. # [20:46] * timeless_mbp chuckles
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  111. # [20:47] <timeless_mbp> window.screen.pixelDepth ?
  112. # [20:47] <Travis> (something like that)
  113. # [20:48] <timeless_mbp> hrm, nope :(
  114. # [20:49] <smaug> timeless_mbp: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/dom/interfaces/base/nsIDOMWindowUtils.idl#404
  115. # [20:49] <smaug> only for chrome for now
  116. # [20:49] <timeless_mbp> cute
  117. # [20:50] <Travis> screen.deviceXDPI and screen.logicalXDPI and screen.systemXDPI.
  118. # [20:51] <smaug> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=416226
  119. # [20:52] <Travis> IE's documentation on how to do this stuff: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc849094(VS.85).aspx
  120. # [20:53] <Travis> Also, a blog post on the subject: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/03/25/internet-explorer-8-and-adaptive-zoom.aspx
  121. # [20:55] <Travis> timeless_mbp: With my device, I zoom in and the browser gives me more detail because the viewport is effectively busy.
  122. # [20:55] <Travis> ... There are ways already without a zoom event to get more detail...
  123. # [20:56] <Travis> ... Afraid of authors hard-coding particular experiences into certain DPIs.
  124. # [20:58] * timeless_mbp goes to get a url for that
  125. # [21:01] <Travis> shepazu: My point of view: as a developer, I want to push the envelope and use resize to build those experiences.
  126. # [21:02] <timeless_mbp> http://issues.hudson-ci.org/browse/HUDSON-5457
  127. # [21:02] <timeless_mbp> the text at the bottom of the image attachment comes to mind
  128. # [21:03] <Travis> shepazu: I'll put something in the editor's draft and you can review it and we'll discuss.
  129. # [21:03] <Travis> travis: I would love to see scenarios from SVG as well...
  130. # [21:03] <timeless_mbp> http://issues.hudson-ci.org/secure/attachment/19079/trend.png
  131. # [21:04] <Travis> shepazu: A scenario: inline SVG in HTML and zoom just SVG. Makes sense to be element-level zoom at that point.
  132. # [21:04] * timeless_mbp frowns
  133. # [21:04] * timeless_mbp ... is it better now?
  134. # [21:05] * timeless_mbp is using a SIP bridge
  135. # [21:05] <timeless_mbp> we can right click :)
  136. # [21:05] <timeless_mbp> ... in mobile
  137. # [21:05] <smaug> yeah, N900 right click works pretty well
  138. # [21:05] <Travis> timeless_mbp: From a mobile browser POV, specific zoom on one part of the page means more UI, which means more real-estate and complexity for the end-user.
  139. # [21:05] <Travis> shepazu: If there's a use-case out there we should at least consider it for the spec.
  140. # [21:06] <Travis> smaug: Is the SVG zoom something else than page-level zoom? If so, then browsers can use SVG zoom to fullfill those use cases.
  141. # [21:06] <timeless_mbp> s/fullfill/fulfill/
  142. # [21:07] <timeless_mbp> http://www.romancortes.com/blog/pure-css-coke-can/
  143. # [21:07] <Travis> shepazu: Will we get the same set of questions from CSS (CSS transforms) when they try to use scalar transforms.
  144. # [21:08] * timeless_mbp chuckles
  145. # [21:10] <Travis> shepazu: Let's drop this topic for now...
  146. # [21:14] <timeless_mbp> Topic: reentrancy
  147. # [21:14] <timeless_mbp> Travis: ... ie is the wild west
  148. # [21:15] <timeless_mbp> ... firefox only seems to allow two levels deep for event reentrancy
  149. # [21:15] <timeless_mbp> smaug: sometimes this is a js engine recursion limit
  150. # [21:15] <timeless_mbp> ... sometimes ~144 nested events
  151. # [21:15] <timeless_mbp> ... was this mutation events?
  152. # [21:16] <timeless_mbp> Travis: yes... using synchronous event handlers triggered from mutation events
  153. # [21:16] <timeless_mbp> smaug: we do have mutation guards
  154. # [21:16] <timeless_mbp> ... if the dom gets into a strange state, we just stop doing things (firing events)
  155. # [21:16] <timeless_mbp> shepazu: it's not that you have a policy on events, it's that you have a threshold ?
  156. # [21:17] <Travis> Topic: Mutation Events and Re-entrancy
  157. # [21:17] <timeless_mbp> smaug: this relates to pages being really evil with mutation events
  158. # [21:17] <timeless_mbp> ... it was the source of many security issues many years ago
  159. # [21:17] <Travis> travis: Wondering how many levels of re-entrancy to allow, and whether we should spec this?
  160. # [21:18] * timeless_mbp chuckles
  161. # [21:18] * timeless_mbp starts a fire @ shepazu 's feet
  162. # [21:18] <Travis> Action: Travis to create a test page for mutation event re-entrancy
  163. # [21:18] * RRSAgent records action 1
  164. # [21:18] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  165. # [21:18] <trackbot> Created ACTION-484 - Create a test page for mutation event re-entrancy [on Travis Leithead - due 2010-02-10].
  166. # [21:19] * timeless_mbp chuckles
  167. # [21:19] <smaug> Event recursion test http://mozilla.pettay.fi/moztests/events/event_loop.html
  168. # [21:19] <Travis> (Thanks!)
  169. # [21:19] <smaug> not for mutation events
  170. # [21:19] <smaug> but just some generic event
  171. # [21:23] <Travis> timeless_mbp: Reason I'm calling in is because of Nokia's interest in gesure events.
  172. # [21:23] <timeless_mbp> s/gesure/gesture/
  173. # [21:25] * Quits: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.169) (Quit: tlr)
  174. # [21:29] <smaug> timeless_mbp: you cause some strange echo :/
  175. # [21:30] * timeless_mbp frowns
  176. # [21:30] * timeless_mbp is using a nokia sip bridge w/ the n900
  177. # [21:35] <Zakim> -Olli_Pettay
  178. # [21:35] <Zakim> -Josh_Soref
  179. # [21:35] * timeless_mbp wanders off
  180. # [21:51] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  181. # [21:51] <Zakim> -Shepazu
  182. # [21:51] <Zakim> IA_WebApps(DOM3)2:00PM has ended
  183. # [21:51] <Zakim> Attendees were Shepazu, Olli_Pettay, [Microsoft], Josh_Soref
  184. # [21:51] <shepazu> trackbot: end telcon
  185. # [21:51] * trackbot is ending a teleconference
  186. # [21:51] <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
  187. # [21:51] <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
  188. # [21:51] <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
  189. # [21:51] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-webapps-minutes.html trackbot
  190. # [21:51] <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
  191. # [21:51] <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-webapps-actions.rdf :
  192. # [21:51] <RRSAgent> ACTION: Travis to create a test page for mutation event re-entrancy [1]
  193. # [21:51] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-webapps-irc#T20-17-28
  194. # [21:51] * Parts: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.169)
  195. # [21:55] <anne> fyi, some of window.screen is defined in cssom-view
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  205. # [23:57] * Parts: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
  206. # Session Close: Thu Feb 04 00:00:01 2010

The end :)