/irc-logs / w3c / #webapps / 2010-03-16 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Mar 16 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #webapps
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  24. # Session Start: Tue Mar 16 12:21:33 2010
  25. # Session Ident: #webapps
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  27. # [12:21] * Topic is 'WebApps WG ; this channel is logged at: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/'
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  56. # [14:58] * Topic is 'WebApps WG ; this channel is logged at: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/'
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  113. # [23:42] <eiras> shepazu: ? hello ?
  114. # [23:42] <shepazu> hi, eiras
  115. # [23:42] <eiras> shepazu: howdy, I work for Opera, actually sti in the office 50 m away from marcos :)
  116. # [23:42] <eiras> sti -> sit :)
  117. # [23:43] <shepazu> heh
  118. # [23:43] <eiras> chaals told me to talk to you about dom 3 events, if you have the bandwidth :)
  119. # [23:43] <eiras> you might recognize my name "João Eiras" from the mailing list
  120. # [23:43] <eiras> portuguese btw :)
  121. # [23:45] <eiras> so, one of the things we currently need, which has been requested specially for mobiles, is the ability to control zooming and panning. Without going into low-level, device specific events, I would like to propose generic before/afterzoom events and a beforescroll, which would be cancelable
  122. # [23:46] <eiras> I have an email ready. I hope you can help on the subject, or more like, accept help from me and other interested parties
  123. # [23:47] <smaug> beforescroll might be tricky
  124. # [23:47] <smaug> what if some script changes the size of the page
  125. # [23:47] <smaug> so there is some kind of scroll
  126. # [23:47] <smaug> what should happen
  127. # [23:47] <eiras> beforescroll is only for user actions, not scrpt triggered actions, else you'd have a deadlock situation
  128. # [23:48] <eiras> for instance: myScrollableContainer.scrollTop = something -> this cannot fire a synchronous event, and therefore cannot be prevented
  129. # [23:48] <smaug> define then "user action" :)
  130. # [23:49] <smaug> myScrollableContainer.scrollTop case is still easy
  131. # [23:49] <smaug> but what if the styling of the page is changed
  132. # [23:49] <eiras> user action -> anything that is not script generated. A script doing a scroll can by itself decide whether to scroll or not. The point of a preventable event, is to detect when the user does it.
  133. # [23:50] <smaug> what is the usecase for beforescroll?
  134. # [23:50] <eiras> hum, good point :)
  135. # [23:50] <eiras> let me think a bit
  136. # [23:50] <eiras> the most popular use case is something like google maps, where the user swipes his/her finger over the map
  137. # [23:50] <eiras> same for zooming there
  138. # [23:50] <smaug> that has nothing to do with beforescroll
  139. # [23:51] <smaug> gmaps uses mousewheel/DOMMouseScroll events
  140. # [23:51] <eiras> on the contrary, by dragging the page (or using a joystick/cursor) the user produces a scrolling action, by default. If the webpage is able to detct that and prevent it, then it can deal with the scrolling itself
  141. # [23:52] <eiras> how is mouswheel useful in a device or computer without a mousewheel ? should the spec require users to have mousewheel as conformance criteria ?
  142. # [23:53] <smaug> it should require wheel events to be dispatched, it there is some hardware for that
  143. # [23:53] <eiras> about reflow -> something a bit more generic can be described. If currently there is a script executing, don't fire beforescroll for instance
  144. # [23:53] <smaug> but anyway about beforescroll, I don't quite see the usecase
  145. # [23:53] <smaug> page has scrollbar, and user drags it, but page prevents the scrolling
  146. # [23:53] <eiras> so if I swipe my finger, drag scrollbars, (etc) the user agent should fire a mousewheel ?
  147. # [23:54] <smaug> no
  148. # [23:54] <smaug> user isn't using the wheel when dragging scrollbars
  149. # [23:55] <smaug> why does the page want to deal with scrolling itself?
  150. # [23:55] <eiras> if you don't see the use case, then I apologize if I wasn't clear enough that we've been requested ways to control panning/scrolling of the viewport. Better to work on a standard than to hack a proprietary api, right ?
  151. # [23:56] <eiras> and again, dragging an object around, or panning a map, like gmaps, or any other map application you might think of, are quite valid use cases.
  152. # [23:56] <smaug> with panning you mean something like using fingers to move content of the viewport?
  153. # [23:56] <smaug> for that we do need new events
  154. # [23:56] <eiras> could be fingers, could be anything else
  155. # [23:56] <smaug> pan events or something
  156. # [23:56] <eiras> as such, making assumptions that specific input actions trigger specific ui events is the wrong way to do it
  157. # [23:56] <eiras> pan events -> beforescroll ? hum..
  158. # [23:57] <smaug> just pan events
  159. # [23:58] <eiras> sure :)
  160. # [23:58] <smaug> or pan events can be actually in many cases converted to wheel events
  161. # [23:58] <eiras> erm.. no:)
  162. # [23:58] <smaug> a bit ugly, I know
  163. # [23:58] <eiras> a bit unacceptable I would say
  164. # [23:59] <smaug> I agree
  165. # [23:59] <smaug> I assume panning handling would go to the http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/AIDE
  166. # Session Close: Wed Mar 17 00:00:00 2010

The end :)