/irc-logs / w3c / #webapps / 2010-09-29 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Sep 29 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #webapps
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  20. # [08:29] * Topic is 'WebApps, Web Notifications, Web Timing, Oh My; This channel is logged: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/'
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  43. # [14:05] * Topic is 'WebApps, Web Notifications, Web Timing, Oh My; This channel is logged: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/'
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  65. # [19:05] <shepazu> zakim, room for 3?
  66. # [19:05] <Zakim> ok, shepazu; conference Team_(webapps)17:02Z scheduled with code 26632 (CONF2) for 60 minutes until 1802Z
  67. # [19:06] <shepazu> smaug_, Travis, the code will be 26632 (CONF2)
  68. # [19:06] * shepazu Zakim, call shepazu
  69. # [19:06] * Zakim ok, shepazu; the call is being made
  70. # [19:06] <Zakim> Team_(webapps)17:02Z has now started
  71. # [19:06] <Zakim> +Shepazu
  72. # [19:06] <smaug_> just a second...
  73. # [19:06] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  74. # [19:07] <Travis> Zakim: [Microsoft] is Travis
  75. # [19:07] <Zakim> +??P6
  76. # [19:08] <smaug_> Zakim, ??P6 is Olli_Pettay
  77. # [19:08] <Zakim> +Olli_Pettay; got it
  78. # [19:08] <Travis> Zakim, [Microsoft] is Travis
  79. # [19:08] <Zakim> +Travis; got it
  80. # [19:09] <shepazu> Zakim, this is DOM3
  81. # [19:09] <Zakim> shepazu, I see IA_WebApps(DOM3)2:00PM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be DOM3".
  82. # [19:09] <shepazu> Zakim, this will be DOM3
  83. # [19:09] <Zakim> ok, shepazu; I see IA_WebApps(DOM3)2:00PM scheduled to start in 54 minutes
  84. # [19:09] <Travis> scribe: Travis
  85. # [19:10] <Travis> scribeNick: Travis
  86. # [19:10] <smaug_> http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/
  87. # [19:12] <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/products/2
  88. # [19:12] <shepazu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2010JulSep/0144.html
  89. # [19:14] <shepazu> ISSUE-119?
  90. # [19:14] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-119
  91. # [19:14] <trackbot> ISSUE-119 -- Consider adding input/keyboard locale to text and keyboard events -- raised
  92. # [19:14] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/119
  93. # [19:14] <shepazu> Topic: input/keyboard locale
  94. # [19:15] <Travis> shepazu: Not clear before that this was a requirement for this spec.
  95. # [19:16] <Travis> .. Does not appear to be difficult to implement
  96. # [19:16] <Travis> smaug_: Linux could be a problem, this info may not be exposed..
  97. # [19:16] <Travis> shepazu: For platforms that do expose this info, it doesn't seem like it would be difficult to implement
  98. # [19:17] <Travis> .. Depending on the platform, it may not be available/dependable.
  99. # [19:17] <Travis> ... May not be accurate in all scenarios.
  100. # [19:17] <Travis> ... as a heuristic, content authors are willing to say good enough.
  101. # [19:18] <Travis> Travis: We can spec it such that if the platform/OS doesn't support providing this info, then the value could be null (n/a)
  102. # [19:19] <Travis> smaug_: Where is the keyboard layouts defined?
  103. # [19:19] <Travis> shepazu: Couldn't find a standard for reporting the keyboard layout--also couldn't find something for the keybaord language.
  104. # [19:20] <Travis> ... I could have an English Dvorak keyboard!
  105. # [19:20] <Travis> ... For the language, I think we should just go with en-US style
  106. # [19:20] <Travis> ... (Can't think of the term for this format)
  107. # [19:21] <Travis> ... BCP47 tag
  108. # [19:21] <smaug_> shepazu: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2010JulSep/0138.html
  109. # [19:21] <shepazu> BCP-47 tag (e.g. "en-US")
  110. # [19:22] <Travis> Travis: Notes that "navigator.systemLanguage" returns a similar language code: "en-us"
  111. # [19:23] <Travis> shepazu: Probably requires a list of conversions from OS-defined langauge codes to BCP-47
  112. # [19:23] <Travis> ... (normalized)
  113. # [19:26] <Travis> Travis: Related to the issue, I have a preference that the keyboard lang info be provided as a global property (on document?) and that we create an event that notifies of changes (which are not expected to occur very frequently)
  114. # [19:26] <shepazu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2010JulSep/0141.html
  115. # [19:27] <Travis> Travis: Not sure I understand the threat.
  116. # [19:27] <Travis> shepazu: It allows profiling of users
  117. # [19:29] <Travis> Travis: I would argue that the navigator object allows a higher-degree of profling (see navigator.platform in HTML5)
  118. # [19:30] <Travis> ... Also, my goal is to limit the amount of information we provide in the event that is largely redundant.
  119. # [19:31] <Travis> shepazu: If you copy/paste something, the input-locale could be different than if the user is just typing text.
  120. # [19:31] <Travis> travis: good point.
  121. # [19:32] <Travis> shepazu: In order to specify this correctly... consider:
  122. # [19:32] <Travis> ... when something is copied, is the source language prerved?
  123. # [19:33] <Travis> s/prerved/preserved/
  124. # [19:33] <Travis> ... does this impose a requirement on an OS?
  125. # [19:34] <Travis> Travis: What's the scope?
  126. # [19:34] <Travis> smaug_: TextInput and Keyboard events.
  127. # [19:35] <Travis> shepazu: Sounds like we have accepted this comment.
  128. # [19:35] <Travis> RESOLUTION: Accept issue 119, and add inputLocale to TextInput and Keyboard events.
  129. # [19:37] <Travis> Topic: Issue 120 move scroll from UIEvent to Event
  130. # [19:38] <Travis> shepazu: I think it logically belongs in UI events, even if it traditionally hasn't been a UIEvent, I don't see how it breaks.
  131. # [19:39] <Travis> ... it might be argued that is sends extraneous information (null/ empty string)
  132. # [19:39] <Travis> ... Any code that characterizes events based on its interface, it makes more sense to make it a UIEvent.
  133. # [19:40] <Travis> ... Makes it consistent with our model.
  134. # [19:40] <Travis> Travis: I have no argument for or against this issue.
  135. # [19:40] <Travis> smaug_: Same here.
  136. # [19:40] <Travis> shepazu: It is a non-goal for me to document the behavior as it exists in browsers today.
  137. # [19:41] <Travis> ... my goal is to create a consistent and logical model that forms a solid foundation for future events and content.
  138. # [19:41] <Travis> ... Since the folks on the call don't have a strong opinion, then I'd like to keep this event the way it is.
  139. # [19:42] <Travis> RESOLUTION: Keep scroll as a UIEvent, pending further feedback from implementors
  140. # [19:42] <Travis> Topic: Issue 121: generalize textInput to cover all user-initiated changes
  141. # [19:44] <Travis> Note: Jacob Rossi joins the call from Travis' phone
  142. # [19:45] <Travis> shepazu: This sounds like mutation events.
  143. # [19:45] <Travis> JRossi: textInput sounded like the catch-all for input, without the rest of this requests in the Issue.
  144. # [19:47] <Travis> Travis: Notes that the "input" event exists that covers more of these cases (removals of characters, addition of characters, etc.)
  145. # [19:47] <Travis> shepazu: I'm interested in deferring this request, and not doing this in DOM L3 Events.
  146. # [19:48] <Travis> ... I'd like to propose that we keep it the way it is for now. If we decide to accept this workitem, that it could be a standalone spec that adds the new event and details the new event exhaustively, it's relationship to textInput, etc.
  147. # [19:49] <Travis> ... By adding it into this spec, we may not get the implementation feedback that we've had so far.
  148. # [19:50] <Travis> ... Based on the details of how this new event would be speced, it could be compared to textInput.
  149. # [19:50] <Travis> JRossi: Could we consider changing the name? from textInput to beforeInput.
  150. # [19:51] <Travis> Travis: This event is already implemented (for some time) in WebKit and now in IE9.
  151. # [19:52] <Travis> shepazu: On the surface this proposal (Issue 212) seems pretty complex (with lots of cases).
  152. # [19:52] <Travis> RESOLUTION: counter-propose that the beforeInput event be a separate event that is defined in its own spec.
  153. # [19:53] <Travis> Topic: Issue 122 add mousewheel event back.
  154. # [19:55] <Travis> Travis: The mousewheel event was originally pulled from this spec because we (Microsoft) felt that mousewheel didn't 1) convey all the information that was appropriate for a future-looking wheel event, 2) scenarios covered by mosuewheel are also covered by wheel event, 3) implementation support for mousewheel is spotty (not available in Mozilla's Firefox).
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  156. # [19:57] <Travis> smaug_: mousewheel doesn't have all the features.
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  158. # [19:57] <Travis> JRossi: only one-direction scrolling, doesn't handle pixel/line/etc.
  159. # [19:57] <Travis> ... Also confusing from a consistency (intra-spec) to have both events.
  160. # [19:58] <Travis> shepazu: A lot of existing content special-cases mousewheel and other wheel-related events.
  161. # [19:58] <Travis> ... If we specified it, and browsers changed their implementations, existing content might break.
  162. # [19:59] <Travis> ... better to let it fade with time and exist in specific implementations idiosyncratic-ly. (known spelling issue <---)
  163. # [20:00] <Travis> RESOLUTION: The group will not re-add mousewheel event back to the spec.
  164. # [20:02] <Travis> Topic: Issue 126: isTrusted
  165. # [20:03] <Travis> smaug_: I believe we used 'trusted' because of alignment with XBL2
  166. # [20:05] <Travis> Travis: 'trusted' has the same semantic meaning as 'isTrusted'.
  167. # [20:06] <Travis> RESOLUTION: Change 'trusted' to 'isTrusted' :-)
  168. # [20:07] <Travis> Topic: Plans for TPAC
  169. # [20:08] <Travis> shepazu: Wondering who's attending.
  170. # [20:08] <Travis> ... Please register as quickly as possible if you are planning on attending!!!!!j
  171. # [20:09] <Travis> (j is near Enter)
  172. # [20:09] <Travis> (well not really)
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  174. # [20:35] <shepazu> trackbot, end telcon
  175. # [20:35] * trackbot is ending a teleconference
  176. # [20:35] <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
  177. # [20:35] <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
  178. # [20:35] * Quits: Travis (836b0069@128.30.52.43) (Quit: CGI:IRC)
  179. # [20:35] <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
  180. # [20:35] <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
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  185. # [22:59] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
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  190. # Session Close: Thu Sep 30 00:00:00 2010

The end :)