/irc-logs / w3c / #webapps / 2010-10-13 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Oct 13 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #webapps
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  28. # [13:01] * Topic is 'WebApps, Web Notifications, Web Timing, Oh My; This channel is logged: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/'
  29. # [13:01] * Set by ArtB on Tue Jun 29 12:53:08
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  41. # [18:15] <smaug_> public-canvas-api
  42. # [18:15] * smaug_ wonders what that is
  43. # [18:20] <anne> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/latest
  44. # [18:27] <smaug_> sure, but why we need that list
  45. # [18:27] <anne> no idea
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  48. # [18:53] <ArtB> shepazu what is the PIN for the D3E/ARIA call that starts in ~10 mins?
  49. # [18:53] <shepazu> ArtB: I won't know until I create an ad hoc conference
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  54. # [18:59] * Joins: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.169)
  55. # [18:59] <shepazu> Zakim, room for 10?
  56. # [18:59] <Zakim> ok, shepazu; conference Team_(webapps)16:57Z scheduled with code 26632 (CONF2) for 60 minutes until 1757Z
  57. # [19:00] * shepazu Zakim, call shepazu
  58. # [19:00] * Zakim ok, shepazu; the call is being made
  59. # [19:00] <Zakim> Team_(webapps)16:57Z has now started
  60. # [19:00] <Zakim> +Shepazu
  61. # [19:02] <shepazu> trackbot, start telcon
  62. # [19:02] * trackbot is preparing a teleconference
  63. # [19:02] * Joins: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.169)
  64. # [19:02] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/10/13-webapps-irc
  65. # [19:02] <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
  66. # [19:02] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, trackbot
  67. # [19:02] <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DOM3
  68. # [19:02] <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
  69. # [19:02] <trackbot> Meeting: Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
  70. # [19:02] <trackbot> Date: 13 October 2010
  71. # [19:03] * Joins: MichaelC (Michael@128.30.52.169)
  72. # [19:03] <shepazu> Zakim, code?
  73. # [19:03] <Zakim> the conference code is 26632 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), shepazu
  74. # [19:03] * ArtB changes topic to 'D3E/ARIA call; PIN = 26632; Agenda = http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2010OctDec/0050.html'
  75. # [19:03] * Joins: janina (janina@66.92.170.178)
  76. # [19:04] * Joins: Travis (836b0057@128.30.52.43)
  77. # [19:04] * Joins: richardschwerdtfe (RichS@99.39.114.91)
  78. # [19:04] <shepazu> Zakim, code?
  79. # [19:04] <Zakim> the conference code is 26632 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), shepazu
  80. # [19:06] <Travis> Having a bit of trouble calling in... hang tight.
  81. # [19:06] <Travis> OK.
  82. # [19:07] * smaug_ was kicked out from the call :(
  83. # [19:08] <clown> zakim, who is on the phone?
  84. # [19:08] <Zakim> I notice Team_(webapps)16:57Z has restarted
  85. # [19:08] <Zakim> On the phone I see Shepazu, Janina_Sajka, Gregory_Rosmaita, Michael_Cooper, Rich, [Microsoft], [IPcaller]
  86. # [19:08] <clown> zakim, IPcaller is Joseph_Scheuhammer
  87. # [19:08] <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
  88. # [19:08] <Zakim> +??P1
  89. # [19:08] <oedipus> monday's discussion on DI and DOM3 at PF call: http://www.w3.org/2010/10/11-pf-minutes.html
  90. # [19:08] <clown> zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
  91. # [19:08] <Zakim> ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
  92. # [19:08] <smaug_> Zakim, ??P1 is Olli_Pettay
  93. # [19:08] <Zakim> +Olli_Pettay; got it
  94. # [19:08] <smaug_> I think
  95. # [19:08] <MikeSmith> Zakim, call Mike-goog
  96. # [19:08] <Zakim> ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
  97. # [19:08] <Zakim> +Mike
  98. # [19:09] <Zakim> + +1.650.253.aaaa
  99. # [19:10] <Zakim> +Art_Barstow
  100. # [19:10] <MikeSmith> Zakim, who's on the phone?
  101. # [19:10] <Zakim> On the phone I see Shepazu, Janina_Sajka, Gregory_Rosmaita, Michael_Cooper, Rich, [Microsoft], Joseph_Scheuhammer, Olli_Pettay, Mike, +1.650.253.aaaa, Art_Barstow
  102. # [19:10] <tonychang> I'm 1.650.253.aaaa
  103. # [19:11] <Travis> Zakim, [Microsoft] is Travis
  104. # [19:11] <Zakim> +Travis; got it
  105. # [19:11] * Joins: jrossi (836b0055@128.30.52.43)
  106. # [19:11] <tonychang> Zakim 1.650.253.aaaa is tonychang
  107. # [19:11] <tonychang> err
  108. # [19:11] <tonychang> Zakim +1.650.253.aaaa is tonychang
  109. # [19:11] <MikeSmith> tonychang, you need a comma
  110. # [19:11] <MikeSmith> . Zakim,
  111. # [19:11] <tonychang> Zakim, +1.650.253.aaaa is tonychang
  112. # [19:11] <Zakim> +tonychang; got it
  113. # [19:11] <tonychang> MikeSmith: thanks
  114. # [19:11] <MikeSmith> cheers
  115. # [19:12] <MikeSmith> Zakim, call Mike
  116. # [19:12] <Zakim> ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
  117. # [19:12] <Zakim> +Mike
  118. # [19:12] <shepazu> scribeNick: Jacob
  119. # [19:12] <Zakim> -Mike
  120. # [19:12] <shepazu> chair: shepazu
  121. # [19:14] <MikeSmith> "First Call" instead of "Last Call"…
  122. # [19:14] <jrossi> shepazu: This is the first Last Call....intended to be feature complete last call, not the document last call.
  123. # [19:15] <jrossi> shepazu: Apple proposal for UI events for ARIA.
  124. # [19:15] * ArtB notes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2010JulSep/att-0106/UserInterfaceIndependence.html
  125. # [19:15] <shepazu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2010JulSep/att-0106/UserInterfaceIndependence.html
  126. # [19:15] * ArtB I'm here but muted
  127. # [19:16] <jrossi> shepazu: The UIRequestEvent, first interface (Sect. 2), the const list is not intended to be a set of constants that come up with that event. Rather, it's a set of events that use that interface. For ex, MouseEvent hase mousemove/mousedown/etc.
  128. # [19:17] <richardschwerdtfe> q?
  129. # [19:17] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  130. # [19:17] <jrossi> shepazu: I think this would be useful. Love to see it in D3E. So we could see an arrangment such that instead of a keyboard evt with key == Undo, we could see an actual Undo Event.
  131. # [19:17] <richardschwerdtfe> q+
  132. # [19:17] * Zakim sees richardschwerdtfe on the speaker queue
  133. # [19:18] <jrossi> shepazu: the undo evt could happen before the keyboard event for the undo key
  134. # [19:19] <jrossi> Travis: Small concern: a series of high level semantic events (the fire as a result of intended meaning by end user, "the result of a particular default action"). Nowhere in D3E (w/ exception of click) do we have the concept of a meta-event. My concern is they dont really jive with the rest of the events which are currently spec'd in our draft (which are more low-level events tied to the likes of hardware actions, etc).
  135. # [19:20] <jrossi> Travis: Clearly value in these events. I just don't see that we just try to graft those into the spec with our current focus.
  136. # [19:21] <jrossi> shepazu: Planning on making a new WG (Touch Interface WG). The intent there is to manage touch interface, but also some higher level events too. Possibly renaming WG to something like Touch Interface and Abstract Events WG
  137. # [19:21] <jrossi> shepazu: So that is another possible venue for similar sorts of things.
  138. # [19:22] <jrossi> shepazu: related proposal by Google, around textInput event to change it to beforeInput and abstract it out to capture all sorts of changes to the document (undo, redo, etc). Not necessarily in semantic terms, but functionally.
  139. # [19:23] <smaug_> there is some background noise
  140. # [19:25] <anne> HTML5 defines undo/redo events
  141. # [19:25] <jrossi> richardschwerdtfe: Couple points: one thing that I wish we had better tools on mobile devices, but this is the one thing that's really prohibiting us from producing a good mobile device. Keyboards on mobile dont always map correctly. Higher level events would allow for manipulating better and allow us to be more accesible. I wish I had some of the events earlier on.
  142. # [19:25] <jrossi> Travis: To add on to that, w/ D3E today to make your app accesible you have to write your code directly to the input devices you have available (keyboard, mouse) and on some platforms touch.
  143. # [19:26] * Quits: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.169) (Quit: tlr)
  144. # [19:26] <jrossi> tonychang: From Google, details on beforeInput. I think UIRequestEvent is fine and will meet a lot of the simliar needs of beforeInput.
  145. # [19:26] <jrossi> tonychang: beforeInput was trying to be one evt you listen for that captures all possible inputs.
  146. # [19:27] <jrossi> tonychang: downside of UIRequestEvent is that you have to subscribe to a bunch of events (Undo/Redo/etc) to get all input
  147. # [19:27] <shepazu> ?
  148. # [19:27] <shepazu> q?
  149. # [19:27] * Zakim sees richardschwerdtfe on the speaker queue
  150. # [19:28] <jrossi> travis: I think we have to be realisitic. Any spec that tries to define semantic evts is going to be incomplete. We need figure out what the key events that capture the main scenarios we have are.
  151. # [19:29] <jrossi> shepazu: wishes this approach had been taken 15 yrs ago. My concern is that this will take up a really long time (min, several months) to come to agreement. I think that conversation needs to happen. I am concerned that it happens in the scope of D3E.
  152. # [19:29] <jrossi> shepazu: I'd like to hear people's reaction to that. Excellent work, excellent ideas. We could have these higher events and we agree it would make it easier.
  153. # [19:30] <jrossi> shepazu: But I think we could agree that the conversation won't be settled in the next month and a half.
  154. # [19:30] <jrossi> Travis: It's been 10 years in the making (D3E). Let's get these things done. But I am sensitive to the accesibility needs to have these completed.
  155. # [19:30] * Joins: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.169)
  156. # [19:31] <jrossi> richardschwerdtfe: How would the module track for dom events work?
  157. # [19:31] <smaug_> jrossi: do you have microphone near keyboard?
  158. # [19:31] <jrossi> shepazu: It wouldn't be a D3E module. It would be some other spec that uses D3E. D3E underlies things like SVG, HTML5.
  159. # [19:31] <jrossi> yeah, muted the mic. better?
  160. # [19:31] <smaug_> better, thanks
  161. # [19:32] <jrossi> shepazu: It also goes into a few low level evts.
  162. # [19:32] <smaug_> er, no
  163. # [19:32] <jrossi> must be something else
  164. # [19:32] <jrossi> shepazu: Example, event propagation, contstruction of events, dispatching, etc. It's the architecture of events and a few particular events on top of that.
  165. # [19:33] <jrossi> shepazu: This new events spec would not talk about the architecture that D3E lays as a framework. It would simply define a set of interfaces and events, the order in which they're fired, etc. So just the evts themselves and not the mechanisms.
  166. # [19:33] <jrossi> shepazu: Logistically, we could start iterating on the spec to come to a conclusion while we're still working on D3E.
  167. # [19:34] <jrossi> shepazu: Probably be ready for first public WD before the 2nd D3E last call.
  168. # [19:34] * Quits: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.169) (Quit: tlr)
  169. # [19:34] <jrossi> shepazu: Key factor, unlike a lot of other specs, this has the interest of Google,Microsoft, other browser vendors.
  170. # [19:34] <jrossi> shepazu: with that, things could happen very quickly.
  171. # [19:35] * clown zakim, who is noisy?
  172. # [19:35] <jrossi> richardschwerdtfe: Seems like a reasonable approach.
  173. # [19:35] * Zakim clown, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Michael_Cooper (19%), Rich (25%), Shepazu (9%)
  174. # [19:35] <jrossi> shepazu: Does anyone have a problem with that approach?
  175. # [19:36] <jrossi> richardschwerdtfe: In line with what you're thinking, we could actually use all the ARIA spec and make it applicable for mobile.
  176. # [19:36] <jrossi> shepazu: Don't understand...
  177. # [19:37] <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-practices/
  178. # [19:37] * ArtB wonders if Doug's straw proposal would be a good topic for TPAC, e.g. a BoF discussion, Lightning Talk
  179. # [19:37] <jrossi> richardschwerdtfe: We could take the define the relation between device input events and application control with accessibility in mind.
  180. # [19:37] <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/
  181. # [19:37] <jrossi> shepazu: Topic interests me. Would be interested in being one of the editors; but probably not the only one.
  182. # [19:38] <jrossi> shepazu: I'm hearing general agreement that htis work is worthwhile.
  183. # [19:38] <jrossi> richardschwerdtfe: alignment with last call?
  184. # [19:39] <jrossi> shepazu: I think that's useful. Talk about this potential spec and have it's first public WD align with the real Last Call for D3E for gap analysis. Make sure D3E doesn't define something that hampers us latter.
  185. # [19:39] <jrossi> shepazu: I would expect 1st public WD sometime in Jan.
  186. # [19:39] <jrossi> shepazu: I think that's doable. Especially if we get Google and Apple togethre to talk about these things.
  187. # [19:39] <smaug_> background noise is getting even worse :(
  188. # [19:40] <jrossi> MichaelC: Which WG owns this?
  189. # [19:40] <jrossi> MichaelC: still a webapps thing? maybe somebody from PS? joint publication? How do we get all the right people at the table?
  190. # [19:41] <jrossi> shepazu: I think PF is needed. But also whoever else we need to have the right people here to find common ground.
  191. # [19:41] <jrossi> shepazu: I'd be happy to technically join the PF WG.
  192. # [19:41] * Joins: JAllan (chatzilla@208.80.72.253)
  193. # [19:41] <jrossi> MichaelC: We're also going to use the D3E architecture as well, correct?
  194. # [19:42] <jrossi> shepazu: Yes, but most groups use D3E as a fundamental grounding for their events. That's just an assumption.
  195. # [19:42] <jrossi> shepazu: Some groups don't use dom events, but we're trying to bring them into the fold to.
  196. # [19:42] <MikeSmith> s/MichaelC/Rich/
  197. # [19:43] <jrossi> MichaelC: I wouldn't want this to have the flavor of an accesibility only spec.
  198. # [19:43] <smaug_> to get more input from browser implementors, webapps wg should be actively involved
  199. # [19:43] <jrossi> shepazu: Wouldn't want to slow this down by making it go through a new charter revision.
  200. # [19:43] <jrossi> shepazu: Wouldn't want to be in Touch WG because of IP issues.
  201. # [19:43] <MikeSmith> Zakim, Mike is me
  202. # [19:43] <Zakim> +MikeSmith; got it
  203. # [19:44] <jrossi> shepazu: But I agree if it were best if it weren't seen simply as accesibility.
  204. # [19:44] <MikeSmith> Zakim, mute me
  205. # [19:44] <Zakim> MikeSmith should now be muted
  206. # [19:44] <jrossi> richardschwerdtfe: In terms of PF charters, can we do this in PF?
  207. # [19:44] <jrossi> MichaelC: It's not chartered to do something like this. But we could charter this as an informal related thing. But we can deal with that offline.
  208. # [19:46] <jrossi> Resolution: We will deal with high level intentional events in a separate spec that builds on DOM3 Events.
  209. # [19:46] <jrossi> shepazu: Intend to do it in a timeframe that overlaps with the real last call of D3E.
  210. # [19:47] * MichaelC thinks a comprehensive intentional events spec would be an exciting and long-due innovation
  211. # [19:47] * clown hear, here MichaelC
  212. # [19:47] * ArtB ACTION: schepers work with Team to decide which WG will be the owner
  213. # [19:47] <jrossi> shepazu: Probably need to have some email about scroll request and wheel events.
  214. # [19:48] <MikeSmith> getting Chris Fleizach on a telcon might be worthwhile too
  215. # [19:48] <jrossi> shepazu: with regards to beforeInput and this directio we're taking, does it make sense to you that we would look at this in a larger scope?
  216. # [19:49] <jrossi> tonychang: yes, this seems fine to me. The end goal is the same. How we get there....I don't have a strong preference.
  217. # [19:49] * oedipus thanks for talking to us
  218. # [19:49] * MikeSmith to ArtB - if you want to make that a real action, you need to do "schepers to work…"
  219. # [19:49] <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
  220. # [19:49] * Parts: janina (janina@66.92.170.178)
  221. # [19:49] <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
  222. # [19:49] <Zakim> -Joseph_Scheuhammer
  223. # [19:49] <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
  224. # [19:49] <Zakim> -Rich
  225. # [19:49] * Parts: clown (jscheuha@205.211.168.17)
  226. # [19:50] <Zakim> -Art_Barstow
  227. # [19:50] <jrossi> shepazu: Let's talk about graphics. mouse getCoordsAt()
  228. # [19:50] <shepazu> Topic: MouseEvent.getCoordsAt
  229. # [19:51] * Joins: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.169)
  230. # [19:51] <jrossi> Travis: when you transform an element, most properties are relative to viewport.
  231. # [19:51] <jrossi> shepazu: (doesn't agree)
  232. # [19:51] <jrossi> Travis: the ones that aren't are the ones we want to talk about.
  233. # [19:51] <jrossi> shepazu: (sees the light)
  234. # [19:52] <jrossi> Travis: The offset are relative to the coordinates of the element. So what how should those be affected by transforms?
  235. # [19:52] <jrossi> Travis: Why on MouseEvents instead of just doc?
  236. # [19:52] * Quits: richardschwerdtfe (RichS@99.39.114.91) (Quit: richardschwerdtfe)
  237. # [19:52] <jrossi> Travis: Unles mouse event provides some sort of info that isn't intrinsically available.
  238. # [19:53] <shepazu> http://jwatt.org/svg/tmp/mouse-relative-positioning.svg
  239. # [19:54] <jrossi> jrossi: I don't think mouse events are the only place you deal with the issue of translating coordinates between different contexts (the viewport, transformed elements, etc)
  240. # [19:54] * Parts: JAllan (chatzilla@208.80.72.253)
  241. # [19:54] <jrossi> shepazu: Agreed. It's surprisingly difficult to do this in a way that's logical and makes sense. It's unintuitive even after much work on SVG.
  242. # [19:55] <jrossi> shepazu: I code SVG by hand and yet I don't remember this.
  243. # [19:56] <jrossi> shepazu: The key part is that you have to get clientX/clientY. Generally this comes from the mouse. But sometimes it's just some generic point.
  244. # [19:56] <jrossi> shepazu: should have been screenX/screenY but...
  245. # [19:56] <jrossi> Travis: one example: getClientBoundRect
  246. # [19:57] <jrossi> jrossi: needs to be abstracted from SVG.
  247. # [19:57] * Joins: sicking (chatzilla@63.245.220.240)
  248. # [19:58] <jrossi> shepazu: nothing SVG-specific, other than where concept of transforms originated. We can define in a way that you pass in a "point object" (regardless of type) or even the x and y and get back a point object.
  249. # [19:59] <jrossi> shepazu: not taking in a point would actually be nice. Could be seen as a point contructor....pass in x/y and returns point object.
  250. # [19:59] <jrossi> Travis: write it out like an API.....please?
  251. # [20:00] <Travis> document.getElementById('transformedElement').transformedX;
  252. # [20:00] <Travis> document.getElementById('transformedElement').transformedY;
  253. # [20:00] <Travis> ??
  254. # [20:01] <smaug_> This all should perhaps go to http://dev.w3.org/csswg/cssom-view/
  255. # [20:01] <shepazu> Point DocumentInterface.getGlobalCoords(x, y);
  256. # [20:01] <jrossi> Point getCoordsAt(x,y,element)
  257. # [20:02] <Travis> Element.transformedClientX;
  258. # [20:02] <jrossi> Travis: data is local to the element, right? It's the element that's transformed that's relative to. Why not put it on element itself?
  259. # [20:03] <jrossi> jrossi: like on on Element, if you had elm you could just say elm.getCoordsAt(x,y)
  260. # [20:03] <jrossi> smaug_: seems quite natural to go in css-om
  261. # [20:03] <Travis> CSSOM-Views; seems like the right place to me too.
  262. # [20:04] <jrossi> shepazu: I can see that. Only concern, would like to see this defined and in browsers. IE9?
  263. # [20:04] * Quits: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.169) (Quit: tlr)
  264. # [20:04] <jrossi> Travis: tight timeline, can't commit, would need to discuss internally
  265. # [20:04] <jrossi> Travis: workaround is available
  266. # [20:04] <jrossi> shepazu: workaround is somewhat obtuse
  267. # [20:04] * Joins: jcraig (jcraig@17.226.23.163)
  268. # [20:06] * jcraig I'm getting a error on the conf bridge "conference is restricted at this teim"
  269. # [20:06] * jcraig s/teim/time/
  270. # [20:07] <MikeSmith> shepazu: ↑
  271. # [20:07] <jrossi> shepazu: would like to take a stab at defining this in D3E. Wouldn't mind marking as "at risk" and it could be taken out in Last Call and go in css-om?
  272. # [20:07] <jrossi> smaug_: Why do you want to have it in D3E?
  273. # [20:08] <Zakim> -MikeSmith
  274. # [20:08] <MikeSmith> Zakim, code?
  275. # [20:08] <Zakim> the conference code is 26632 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), MikeSmith
  276. # [20:08] <jrossi> smaug_: But what part goes in events? Doesn't make sense that D3E events is the place for this?
  277. # [20:08] <jrossi> jrossi: agrees
  278. # [20:09] <jrossi> shepazu: Put another way,...
  279. # [20:09] <jrossi> Travis: <sings>
  280. # [20:09] <jrossi> shepazu: <joins in>
  281. # [20:09] <jrossi> shepazu: I think that putting it in D3E events might persuade MSFT to implement.
  282. # [20:09] <jcraig> Zakim, call jcraig
  283. # [20:09] <Zakim> I am sorry, jcraig; I do not know a number for jcraig
  284. # [20:10] * Quits: oedipus (chatzilla@70.21.184.131) (Connection reset by peer)
  285. # [20:10] <jrossi> Travis: probably can't justify putting it in already. Fundamentally seems wrong to ram in through D3E.
  286. # [20:10] <jcraig> q?
  287. # [20:10] * Zakim sees richardschwerdtfe on the speaker queue
  288. # [20:10] * MikeSmith to jcraig : I get the same error, fwiw
  289. # [20:10] <smaug_> jcraig: the ARIA part of the meeting started over an hour ago
  290. # [20:10] <jrossi> Travis: Our SVG folks are interested in this. Could work with Anna to put this in CSS-Om.
  291. # [20:11] * MikeSmith to jcraig - yeah, as smaug_ notes, you may be off by 1 hour
  292. # [20:11] * jcraig smaug_ shepazu, "We will be holding the next DOM3 Events telcon on Wednesday, 13 October 2010, at 17:00-18:00 UTC. [1] Please adjust for your local time." which is now.
  293. # [20:11] <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, make minutes
  294. # [20:11] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/13-webapps-minutes.html MikeSmith
  295. # [20:12] <jrossi> shepazu: I'll recommend this goes in SVG/CSS transforms spec.
  296. # [20:12] <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, make logs public
  297. # [20:12] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, MikeSmith
  298. # [20:12] <jrossi> Travis: could mention we debated it and felt that it wasn't an events-related issue and felt like it was better suited for Element
  299. # [20:12] <jrossi> shepazu: Feel like MouseEvent is missing this thing. Would like to put these as attributes on the MouseEvents rather than separate method.
  300. # [20:13] <MikeSmith> scribe: jrossi
  301. # [20:13] <jrossi> Travis: I think we're wise to push to another location so that the details could be more paid attention to.
  302. # [20:13] <jrossi> Resolution: We will suggest this lives in CSS-OM or CSS/SVG Transforms spec.
  303. # [20:13] <MikeSmith> i/This is the first Last Call/scribe: jrossi
  304. # [20:13] <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, make logs public
  305. # [20:13] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, MikeSmith
  306. # [20:13] <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, make minutes
  307. # [20:13] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/13-webapps-minutes.html MikeSmith
  308. # [20:14] <Zakim> -tonychang
  309. # [20:15] * MikeSmith to jcraig - http://www.w3.org/2010/10/13-webapps-minutes.html has minutes from the earlier discussion
  310. # [20:15] * jcraig thanks MikeSmith
  311. # [20:16] <jrossi> shepazu: Wondering if we should take another shot at DOMActivate in this other events spec.
  312. # [20:16] <jrossi> Travis: Certainly valid. Once again would want to understand why click isn't dragged back in the mix.
  313. # [20:16] <jrossi> shepazu: Click doesn't do everything. If you just want to listen to an activation, click is cumbersome.
  314. # [20:17] <jrossi> Travis: but now we'll be firing more specific events, hopefully, with this new spec
  315. # [20:17] <jrossi> jrossi: yes, DOMActivate seemed too generic to me. More specific events with more meaning (in this new spec) will be more useful.
  316. # [20:18] <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/products/2
  317. # [20:19] * Parts: jcraig (jcraig@17.226.23.163)
  318. # [20:21] <jrossi> Topic: Missing .key values
  319. # [20:21] <jrossi> shepazu: Issues raised by Microsoft
  320. # [20:22] <jrossi> or not actually raised.....emailed to list...
  321. # [20:22] * Quits: timeless_mbp (timeless@192.100.124.156) (Ping timeout)
  322. # [20:25] <jrossi> shepazu: happy to add back multiple, also think there's some remote control type things that could be added
  323. # [20:25] <shepazu> ISSUE-149?
  324. # [20:25] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-149
  325. # [20:25] <trackbot> ISSUE-149 -- The multiply and other key values are missing -- raised
  326. # [20:25] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/149
  327. # [20:25] <jrossi> Resolution: add "multiply" back. Need to discuss if add and plus are the same thing.
  328. # [20:26] <Zakim> -Travis
  329. # [20:26] <shepazu> trackbot: end telcon
  330. # [20:26] * trackbot is ending a teleconference
  331. # [20:26] <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
  332. # [20:26] <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Shepazu, Janina_Sajka, Gregory_Rosmaita, Michael_Cooper, Rich, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Olli_Pettay, Art_Barstow, Travis, tonychang, MikeSmith
  333. # [20:26] <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
  334. # [20:26] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/13-webapps-minutes.html trackbot
  335. # [20:26] <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
  336. # [20:26] <Zakim> -Olli_Pettay
  337. # [20:26] <RRSAgent> I see no action items
  338. # [20:26] * Parts: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.169)
  339. # [20:26] * Quits: jrossi (836b0055@128.30.52.43) (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
  340. # [20:31] <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, Shepazu, in Team_(webapps)16:57Z
  341. # [20:31] <Zakim> Team_(webapps)16:57Z has ended
  342. # [20:31] <Zakim> Attendees were Shepazu, Janina_Sajka, Gregory_Rosmaita, Michael_Cooper, Rich, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Olli_Pettay, Art_Barstow, Travis, tonychang, MikeSmith
  343. # [20:33] <davidb> wow did i exactly miss this call?
  344. # [20:33] * davidb sighs
  345. # [20:35] <MikeSmith> davidb, seems there might have been a mixup about the time
  346. # [20:35] <davidb> yeah
  347. # [20:35] <davidb> for some reason i had 2:30pm EST
  348. # [20:35] <MikeSmith> davidb: fwiw, the minutes are at http://www.w3.org/2010/10/13-webapps-minutes.html
  349. # [20:35] <shepazu> davidb: sorry, was the email not clear?
  350. # [20:36] <shepazu> we will be having another short call next week on some of the same topics
  351. # [20:36] <davidb> shepazu: i think i set the calendar event based on info from jcraig :)
  352. # [20:36] <davidb> s/: i think i/, i think i
  353. # [20:36] <davidb> ok i'll watch for that email thanks shepazu
  354. # [20:36] <shepazu> I wonder if that's why he wasn't here, too?
  355. # [20:36] * ArtB changes topic to 'WGs: WebApps, Web Notifications, Web Performance'
  356. # [20:37] <davidb> shepazu, right.. he emailed the thread (as did i)
  357. # [20:38] <shepazu> davidb: we didn't yet talk about the scroll or valuechange request stuff
  358. # [20:39] * davidb nods
  359. # [20:57] * Quits: Travis (836b0057@128.30.52.43) (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
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  362. # [21:35] * Dashimon is now known as Dashiva
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  370. # [22:30] * Quits: ArtB (ArtB@192.100.124.219) (Quit: Leaving.)
  371. # [22:38] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
  372. # [22:38] * Parts: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.169)
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  377. # [23:35] * Parts: tonychang (tc@72.14.229.84)
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  383. # Session Close: Thu Oct 14 00:00:00 2010

The end :)