/irc-logs / w3c / #webapps / 2010-12-16 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Dec 16 00:00:01 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #webapps
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  39. # [06:07] <Sirisian> Hixie, Have you ever thought of changing the web worker API so that it no longer creates copies and that you can share references? I was trying to speed up a simple project I started yesterday by throwing rendering into separate threads, but using postMessage with this simple function http://pastebin.com/zK5H9RSi is a little bit much. Everytime it posts the result it creates a copy. Firefox 4b7 pops up an error Out of Memory if the returned array is 80
  40. # [06:07] <Sirisian> 0*600*4 bytes, but with 600*400*4 it runs for 10 seconds then crashes the browser. I mentioned introducing real threads a while ago with locks. I really believe that's the more sane approach before it's too late.
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  42. # [06:27] <Sirisian> I'm figuring you can only postMessage < 1 MB which is the bigger problem.
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  44. # [06:38] <Hixie> Sirisian: if we allowed sharing, web authors would have to learn how to use locks
  45. # [06:38] <Hixie> Sirisian: and that's a lost cause
  46. # [06:39] <Sirisian> no it's not :P
  47. # [06:40] <Sirisian> It's 100 times easier than this web worker things. Even my brother knows what a lock is and he's a web programmer.
  48. # [06:41] <Sirisian> Or just don't introduce locks! Make it so a variable is flagged when it's ran on another thread automatically and can't be interrupted. maybe... >_>
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  50. # [06:41] <Sirisian> Nah that wouldn't work
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  52. # [06:45] <Sirisian> I could definitely see a lot of awesome things if locks were allowed. Maybe add both web workers and locks and real threads. var thread = new Thread(foo);
  53. # [06:48] <Sirisian> function foo() { lock(barMutex) { ++bar; } } :'(
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  55. # [07:05] <Sirisian> var barMutex = new Mutex(); then the API is nice. Can you imagine a spec that had only Thread and Mutex. You would be raised up on shoulders and be deemed a hero :\
  56. # [07:05] <Sirisian> maybe
  57. # [07:11] <Hixie> dude, it takes years for _kernel developers_ to learn how to deal with locks
  58. # [07:12] <Hixie> web browser vendors have made it abundantly clear that they're never giving web developers enough rope to hang their process
  59. # [07:12] <Sirisian> you can already do that. while(1);
  60. # [07:12] <Hixie> browsers can prevent that
  61. # [07:12] <Sirisian> they don't
  62. # [07:13] <Hixie> sure they do
  63. # [07:13] <Hixie> try it
  64. # [07:13] <Sirisian> do you have firefox 4b7?
  65. # [07:13] <Hixie> i have a firefox trunk build, i assume that's equivalent
  66. # [07:13] <Sirisian> http://assaultwars.com/javascript/pixels/
  67. # [07:14] <Hixie> what about it?
  68. # [07:14] <Sirisian> look at the memory in task manager (if you're in windows)
  69. # [07:14] <Sirisian> I only have 2 GB so it happens fast
  70. # [07:14] <Hixie> i'm talking about on the main thread
  71. # [07:15] <Hixie> it doesn't look the browser if you do it in a subthread (well, current implementations might because they don't limit resources yet but that's just a temporary situation)
  72. # [07:16] <Sirisian> How would what were talking about cause locks in the main thread that aren't stoppable? I mean even a dead lock would just cause the main thread to lag for 15 seconds and have that box pop up.
  73. # [07:16] <Sirisian> depends how it's implemented though
  74. # [07:16] <Hixie> well i encourage you to try to convince a browser vendor
  75. # [07:16] <Sirisian> where do they hang out? I've only seen this server. I searched for the mozilla devs but didn't see anyone.
  76. # [07:17] <Sirisian> (please don't say mailing list)
  77. # [07:17] <Hixie> which browser?
  78. # [07:18] <Sirisian> Actually wait. You don't have any influence on chrome?
  79. # [07:18] <Hixie> no?
  80. # [07:18] <Sirisian> Don't you work for google?
  81. # [07:18] <Hixie> i mean, no more than any other browser
  82. # [07:18] <Sirisian> oh
  83. # [07:18] <Sirisian> Always pictured you working alongside them or something
  84. # [07:19] <Hixie> i try to remain vendor neutral
  85. # [07:19] <Hixie> i've more recently had lunch with mozilla folk than chrome folk in fact :-)
  86. # [07:19] <Hixie> anyway, mozilla hang out here, on irc.mozilla.org, and in a multitude of mailing lists and bug systems
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The end :)