/irc-logs / w3c / #webapps / 2011-08-17 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Wed Aug 17 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #webapps
  3. # [00:21] * Joins: MikeSmith_ (MikeSmith@1.112.41.91)
  4. # [00:23] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@1.112.110.0) (Ping timeout)
  5. # [00:23] * MikeSmith_ is now known as MikeSmith
  6. # [00:40] * Quits: Lachy (Lachy@84.215.59.50) (Quit: Bye)
  7. # [00:55] * Quits: Dashiva (noone@84.72.45.52) (Ping timeout)
  8. # [00:58] * Joins: Dashiva (noone@84.72.45.52)
  9. # [01:48] * Quits: smaug (chatzilla@91.154.41.96) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 8.0a1/20110810030738])
  10. # [03:13] * Quits: sicking (chatzilla@159.63.23.38) (Ping timeout)
  11. # [04:07] * Joins: homata (homata@58.158.182.50)
  12. # [05:19] * Joins: Martijnc (Martijnc@84.192.44.100)
  13. # [05:21] * Quits: Martijnc (Martijnc@84.192.44.100) (Connection reset by peer)
  14. # [05:25] * Joins: Martijnc (Martijnc@84.192.44.100)
  15. # [06:23] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@1.112.41.91) (Ping timeout)
  16. # [06:29] * Joins: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@1.113.46.94)
  17. # [06:46] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  18. # [07:12] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  19. # [08:22] * Quits: gsnedders (gsnedders@204.232.194.186) (Ping timeout)
  20. # [08:22] * Joins: gsnedders (gsnedders@204.232.194.186)
  21. # [10:22] * Joins: Ms2ger (Ms2ger@91.181.40.134)
  22. # [10:40] * Joins: smaug (chatzilla@91.154.41.96)
  23. # [10:56] * Joins: kennyluck (kennyluck@114.43.121.23)
  24. # [11:05] * Joins: Lachy (Lachy@84.215.59.50)
  25. # [11:39] * Quits: Lachy (Lachy@84.215.59.50) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  26. # [11:41] * Quits: homata (homata@58.158.182.50) (Ping timeout)
  27. # [12:06] * Joins: Lachy (Lachy@213.236.208.247)
  28. # [12:22] * Joins: MikeSmith_ (MikeSmith@114.48.93.212)
  29. # [12:23] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@1.113.46.94) (Ping timeout)
  30. # [12:23] * MikeSmith_ is now known as MikeSmith
  31. # [12:29] * Quits: anne (annevk@83.85.115.123) (Client exited)
  32. # [12:29] * Joins: anne (annevk@83.85.115.123)
  33. # [12:41] * Quits: Lachy (Lachy@213.236.208.247) (Quit: Bye)
  34. # [12:41] * Joins: Lachy (Lachy@213.236.208.22)
  35. # [12:43] * Quits: Ms2ger (Ms2ger@91.181.40.134) (Connection reset by peer)
  36. # [12:51] * Quits: Lachy (Lachy@213.236.208.22) (Quit: Bye)
  37. # [12:57] * Joins: Lachy (Lachy@213.236.208.22)
  38. # [13:14] * Joins: Ms2ger (Ms2ger@91.181.16.124)
  39. # [13:16] * Joins: richt (richt@213.236.208.22)
  40. # [14:03] * Quits: Dashiva (noone@84.72.45.52) (Quit: Dashiva)
  41. # [14:17] * Joins: Dashiva (noone@84.72.45.52)
  42. # [14:24] * Quits: Ms2ger (Ms2ger@91.181.16.124) (Connection reset by peer)
  43. # [14:29] * Joins: davidb (davidb@66.207.206.180)
  44. # [14:49] * Joins: rogerk (Adium@96.237.170.36)
  45. # [14:52] * Joins: Ms2ger (Ms2ger@91.181.45.92)
  46. # [15:02] * Joins: miketaylr (miketaylr@206.217.92.186)
  47. # [15:22] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  48. # [15:44] <smaug> art is on vacation, right=
  49. # [15:44] <smaug> s/=/?/
  50. # [15:45] * Quits: rogerk (Adium@96.237.170.36) (Quit: Leaving.)
  51. # [15:52] * Joins: fjh (fhirsch3@66.30.252.41)
  52. # [15:55] <anne> right
  53. # [16:11] * Quits: miketaylr (miketaylr@206.217.92.186) (Ping timeout)
  54. # [16:14] * Joins: miketaylr (miketaylr@206.217.92.186)
  55. # [16:20] * Joins: rogerk (Adium@96.237.170.36)
  56. # [16:49] * Quits: fjh (fhirsch3@66.30.252.41) (Quit: fjh)
  57. # [17:48] * Joins: JoshSoref (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  58. # [18:16] * Quits: rogerk (Adium@96.237.170.36) (Quit: Leaving.)
  59. # [18:21] * Joins: MikeSmith_ (MikeSmith@114.48.40.181)
  60. # [18:23] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@114.48.93.212) (Ping timeout)
  61. # [18:23] * MikeSmith_ is now known as MikeSmith
  62. # [18:25] * Joins: sicking (chatzilla@159.63.23.38)
  63. # [18:35] * Joins: rogerk (Adium@96.237.170.36)
  64. # [18:37] * Quits: davidb (davidb@66.207.206.180) (Quit: davidb)
  65. # [18:42] * Quits: richt (richt@213.236.208.22) (Client exited)
  66. # [18:52] * Quits: rogerk (Adium@96.237.170.36) (Quit: Leaving.)
  67. # [18:53] * Joins: davidb (davidb@66.207.206.180)
  68. # [18:57] * Joins: rogerk (Adium@96.237.170.36)
  69. # [18:58] * Quits: Lachy (Lachy@213.236.208.22) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  70. # [19:13] * Joins: jrossi (jrossi@131.107.0.106)
  71. # [19:13] * Quits: jrossi1 (jrossi@131.107.0.72) (Ping timeout)
  72. # [19:16] * Quits: rogerk (Adium@96.237.170.36) (Ping timeout)
  73. # [19:30] * Quits: davidb (davidb@66.207.206.180) (Quit: davidb)
  74. # [20:05] <smaug> jrossi: is the meeting now
  75. # [20:05] <smaug> or in an hour?
  76. # [20:06] * smaug assumes in an hour
  77. # [20:06] <smaug> yes
  78. # [20:06] <smaug> which is good for me
  79. # [20:16] * Quits: heycam|away (cam@203.98.73.35) (Ping timeout)
  80. # [20:16] * Joins: heycam|away (cam@203.98.73.35)
  81. # [21:04] * Joins: Lachy (Lachy@84.215.59.50)
  82. # [21:07] <shepazu> trackbot, start telcon
  83. # [21:07] * trackbot is preparing a teleconference
  84. # [21:07] * Joins: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.169)
  85. # [21:07] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/17-webapps-irc
  86. # [21:07] <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
  87. # [21:07] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, trackbot
  88. # [21:07] * Joins: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.169)
  89. # [21:07] <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DOM3
  90. # [21:07] <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see IA_WebApps(DOM3)2:00PM already started
  91. # [21:07] <trackbot> Meeting: Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
  92. # [21:07] <trackbot> Date: 17 August 2011
  93. # [21:07] <shepazu> zakim, code?
  94. # [21:07] <Zakim> the conference code is 3663 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), shepazu
  95. # [21:08] <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
  96. # [21:09] <Zakim> +??P3
  97. # [21:09] * Joins: krisk (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  98. # [21:10] * Joins: jrossi_ (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  99. # [21:10] <jrossi_> Hey shepazu
  100. # [21:10] <smaug> jrossi_: did you just join the call?
  101. # [21:10] * shepazu jrossi_ are you on the call?
  102. # [21:10] <smaug> we can't here you
  103. # [21:10] <smaug> hear
  104. # [21:10] <jrossi_> not yet, is code DOM3?
  105. # [21:10] <shepazu> zakim, code?
  106. # [21:10] <Zakim> the conference code is 3663 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), shepazu
  107. # [21:10] <smaug> hmm, ??P3 is someone else then
  108. # [21:11] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  109. # [21:11] * Quits: sicking (chatzilla@159.63.23.38) (Ping timeout)
  110. # [21:12] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  111. # [21:13] <smaug> Zakim, who is on the call?
  112. # [21:13] <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P0, Doug_Schepers, ??P3
  113. # [21:13] <smaug> Zakim, ??P0 is Olli_Pettay
  114. # [21:13] <Zakim> +Olli_Pettay; got it
  115. # [21:13] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  116. # [21:13] <smaug> jrossi_: terrible noise
  117. # [21:13] <smaug> argghh
  118. # [21:13] <krisk> Zakim, Microsoft is krisk jrossi akuang
  119. # [21:13] <Zakim> I don't understand 'Microsoft is krisk jrossi akuang', krisk
  120. # [21:13] <jrossi_> from our end?
  121. # [21:13] <smaug> immediately when you joined
  122. # [21:14] <shepazu> zakim, drop ??P3
  123. # [21:14] <Zakim> ??P3 is being disconnected
  124. # [21:14] <Zakim> -??P3
  125. # [21:14] <krisk> Zakim, Microsoft is krisk,jrossi,akuang
  126. # [21:14] <Zakim> +krisk,jrossi,akuang; got it
  127. # [21:14] <jrossi_> smaug:can't hear you guys at all
  128. # [21:14] <shepazu> zaki, mute Microsoft
  129. # [21:14] <smaug> Zakim, mute [Microsoft]
  130. # [21:14] <Zakim> sorry, smaug, I do not know which phone connection belongs to [Microsoft]
  131. # [21:14] <shepazu> zakim, mute Microsoft
  132. # [21:14] <Zakim> sorry, shepazu, I do not know which phone connection belongs to Microsoft
  133. # [21:14] <jrossi_> i muted our phone
  134. # [21:14] <shepazu> jrossi_: please call back in
  135. # [21:14] <Zakim> +??P3
  136. # [21:14] <Zakim> -krisk,jrossi,akuang
  137. # [21:15] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  138. # [21:15] <krisk> Zakim, Microsoft is krisk,jrossi,akuang
  139. # [21:15] <Zakim> +krisk,jrossi,akuang; got it
  140. # [21:16] <smaug> Zakim, nick smaug is Olli_Pettay
  141. # [21:16] <Zakim> ok, smaug, I now associate you with Olli_Pettay
  142. # [21:16] <shepazu> zakim, drop ??P3
  143. # [21:16] <Zakim> ??P3 is being disconnected
  144. # [21:16] <Zakim> -??P3
  145. # [21:17] <jrossi_> ScribeNick: jrossi
  146. # [21:17] <jrossi_> smaug: there's keyboard noise, is that you?
  147. # [21:17] <smaug> sorry
  148. # [21:19] <jrossi_> jrossi: Doug, have you updated ISSUE 110 & 121?
  149. # [21:19] <jrossi_> shepazu: Yes, but haven't been able to check in.
  150. # [21:19] <jrossi_> jrossi: if you can submit the changes to me, I can check them in
  151. # [21:19] <jrossi_> shepazu: OK.
  152. # [21:19] <Zakim> -krisk,jrossi,akuang
  153. # [21:20] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  154. # [21:20] <krisk> Zakim, Microsoft is krisk,jrossi,akuang
  155. # [21:20] <Zakim> +krisk,jrossi,akuang; got it
  156. # [21:21] <jrossi_> jrossi: just got the change from shepazu, I'll check it in today
  157. # [21:21] <shepazu> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2011JulSep/0115.html
  158. # [21:22] <jrossi_> Topic: Spec changes during LC
  159. # [21:22] <jrossi_> ISSUE-185?
  160. # [21:22] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-185
  161. # [21:22] <trackbot> ISSUE-185 -- Functions that Implement the EventListener Interface -- pending review
  162. # [21:22] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/185
  163. # [21:25] <jrossi_> jrossi: Rob Bracket raised this issue. Mostly grammatical/clarity. Primary question is: if EventListener is a Function object with a property handleEvent property, should the UA invoke the function object or the handleEvent property?
  164. # [21:25] <jrossi_> jrossi: all implementations agree that you invoke the Function object
  165. # [21:25] <jrossi_> jrossi: Rob Brackett presented functional argument for why you want alternative.
  166. # [21:26] <jrossi_> jrossi: This was countered with an argument from implementers that this is not implementable in a performant manner.
  167. # [21:26] * shepazu mentions to whoever called in earlier, you're welcome to join if you simply identify yourself
  168. # [21:26] <jrossi_> jrossi: Rob Brackett agreed the performance outweighs the utility of his presented functional argument.
  169. # [21:27] <jrossi_> shepazu: agrees with the change
  170. # [21:27] <jrossi_> smaug: and also WebIDL describes this behavior and is in agreement with the spec change
  171. # [21:28] * Joins: akuang (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  172. # [21:28] <jrossi_> Resolution: spec change is appropriate and commenter agreed.
  173. # [21:28] <jrossi_> ISSUE-137?
  174. # [21:28] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-137
  175. # [21:28] <trackbot> ISSUE-137 -- Should keypress events fire when using an IME? -- pending review
  176. # [21:28] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/137
  177. # [21:31] <jrossi_> shepazu: This change did make a change to the normative statements of keypress. We may be asked to go back to LC because of this.
  178. # [21:32] <jrossi_> jrossi: There's good evidence that we should be able to proceed with this change and not go back to Last Call as no counter arguments were presented and also all major browsers are compliant with the new spec text.
  179. # [21:33] <jrossi_> ISSUE-131?
  180. # [21:33] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-131
  181. # [21:33] <trackbot> ISSUE-131 -- Define load event to fire on defaultView -- pending review
  182. # [21:33] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/131
  183. # [21:35] <jrossi_> jrossi: no normative change, just reinstated the note about load not firing on defaultView in some cases and pointed to HTML5
  184. # [21:37] <jrossi_> jrossi: Do we have enough info to discuss ISSUE-183 and ISSUE-184?
  185. # [21:37] <jrossi_> shepazu: no, I'd like to follow up on mail
  186. # [21:37] <jrossi_> smaug: yes, I need to better understand Daniel's followup
  187. # [21:37] <jrossi_> jrossi: OK, we'll postpone that discussion
  188. # [21:37] <krisk> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps-testsuite/2011Apr/0001.html
  189. # [21:37] <jrossi_> Topic: Test Suite
  190. # [21:38] <jrossi_> krisk: Art set up a process and had consensus on how tests should work.
  191. # [21:38] <jrossi_> krisk: (link above to Web Apps testing should work)
  192. # [21:39] <jrossi_> krisk: part of that is creating tests using the format specified on the wiki
  193. # [21:39] <krisk> http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/Submission
  194. # [21:39] <jrossi_> krisk: Microsoft is going to convert some our tests into that format.
  195. # [21:39] <krisk> For exmaple http://w3c-test.org/webapps/DOMEvents/tests/submissions/Microsoft/converted/domnodeinserted.html
  196. # [21:40] * smaug would like to get MS' feedback to mutation replacement discussion
  197. # [21:40] <jrossi_> krisk: Alex Kuang and I will send out notifications to the list and ask for a FR (request to review)
  198. # [21:40] <jrossi_> krisk: then we'll ask to get tests approved
  199. # [21:40] <krisk> Following the http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/Approval process
  200. # [21:40] <jrossi_> shepazu: does this match what's going on in the HTML testing group?
  201. # [21:41] <jrossi_> krisk: yes, the wiki talks about the harness to use.
  202. # [21:41] <jrossi_> krisk: which is the same harness they're using
  203. # [21:41] <krisk> A sample exists at http://w3c-test.org/resources/apisample.htm
  204. # [21:42] <jrossi_> shepazu: do you mind if I ask what sort of coverage you expect to have on the spec as it stands?
  205. # [21:42] <jrossi_> krisk: initially we're going to just propose our set of tests
  206. # [21:42] <jrossi_> shepazu: do you think you have enough coverage?
  207. # [21:43] <jrossi_> krisk: we have lots of good tests :-)
  208. # [21:43] <jrossi_> krisk: we should definitely think about what the test complete timeline looks like
  209. # [21:46] <jrossi_> smaug: how do tests work for things like IME?
  210. # [21:46] <jrossi_> krisk: I believe the spirit is that we want to use the JS harness first. But if there's situations where you can't actually test what the specification says via JS (ex. requiring an IME) then you'll have to go and follow instructions to complete the test ("self-describing tests").
  211. # [21:54] <jrossi_> Topic: Items blocking existing implementations from conformance
  212. # [21:54] <jrossi_> smaug: Several events that were changed to UIEvent that most implementations use Event (from DOM0)
  213. # [21:54] <jrossi_> ISSUE-120?
  214. # [21:54] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-120
  215. # [21:54] <trackbot> ISSUE-120 -- Consider returning 'scroll' from UIEvent to Event interface -- pending review
  216. # [21:54] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/120
  217. # [21:55] <jrossi_> smuag: there are others besides scroll: load,unload, etc.
  218. # [21:55] <smaug> s/smuag/smaug/
  219. # [21:55] * Joins: davidb (davidb@174.91.48.69)
  220. # [21:56] <jrossi_> shepazu: if implementations agree that they do not want to make this change, then I'm fine with moving these back to Event
  221. # [21:56] <jrossi_> jrossi: Microsoft is OK with this.
  222. # [21:56] <jrossi_> smaug: I'm also fine with moving it back
  223. # [21:57] <jrossi_> smaug: Annevk also was in favor of this
  224. # [21:58] <akuang> load, unload, error are Event in IE9
  225. # [21:59] <akuang> scroll, resize, select are UIEvent in IE9
  226. # [22:00] <jrossi_> smaug: load, unload, error are also Event in Firefox (also, abort, error, select, resize, scroll)
  227. # [22:00] <jrossi_> smaug: wonder why only load/unload/error only are Event in IE
  228. # [22:00] <jrossi_> jrossi: we can check into that and get back to you
  229. # [22:01] <jrossi_> jrossi: I can start a thread on this
  230. # [22:02] <jrossi_> shepazu: another thing not necessarily implemented is textinput and the key property of keyboard events
  231. # [22:05] <jrossi_> jrossi: IE9 implemented this. We found our experience in implementing straightforward and have gotten feedback from end developers that it's a good model.
  232. # [22:07] <jrossi_> shepazu: I'll see what I can do to help influence getting this in Mozilla
  233. # [22:09] * Joins: sicking (chatzilla@159.63.23.38)
  234. # [22:11] <Zakim> -Olli_Pettay
  235. # [22:11] <Zakim> -krisk,jrossi,akuang
  236. # [22:12] <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
  237. # [22:15] * Quits: jrossi_ (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Ping timeout)
  238. # [22:15] * Quits: krisk (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Ping timeout)
  239. # [22:21] * Quits: Ms2ger (Ms2ger@91.181.45.92) (Quit: nn)
  240. # [22:59] * Quits: miketaylr (miketaylr@206.217.92.186) (Ping timeout)
  241. # [23:17] * Quits: davidb (davidb@174.91.48.69) (Quit: davidb)
  242. # [23:32] * Quits: Martijnc (Martijnc@84.192.44.100) (Quit: Martijnc)
  243. # Session Close: Thu Aug 18 00:00:00 2011

The end :)