/irc-logs / w3c / #webapps / 2012-11-16 / end

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  75. # [10:09] <dom> anyone knows why http://www.w3.org/TR/FileAPI/ hasn't reached Last Call yet? is it because of https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17125 ?
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  88. # [13:16] <Lachy> ArtB, what's the point of the extra CfC for the testsuite now, given that chaals' mail already said they were approved
  89. # [13:16] <Lachy> also, was I supposed to wait for this new CfC before moving the tests to the approved directory?
  90. # [13:17] <Lachy> because it seems weird to have a CfC for tests that are already there.
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  97. # [13:44] <chaals> Lachy: Yeah we were and I forgot. Sorry
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  99. # [13:49] <Lachy> oh, ok
  100. # [13:49] <Lachy> shouldn't matter. I can't forsee anyone objecting to it now.
  101. # [13:49] <ArtB> hi Lachy, yeah, I agree the 2-step approval process is a bit heavy weight
  102. # [13:49] <ArtB> I don't recall now the origin
  103. # [13:50] * Joins: smaug (~chatzilla@public.cloak)
  104. # [13:50] <ArtB> but I do recall trying to reuse as much of the HTMLWG's testing process as possible to minimize unnecessary differences
  105. # [13:51] <ArtB> yes, you definitely did the Right thing by coping the files into .../approved/
  106. # [13:51] * hiro is now known as hiro_away
  107. # [13:52] <Lachy> ArtB, I think we should also improve the test review process in a way that actually encourages someone in the group to review the tests
  108. # [13:52] <ArtB> I think a basic idea for the current process is that folks in the test group may be a different set of people from the set in "the main wg"
  109. # [13:53] <ArtB> Yes I certainly agree I'd feel better if more than just Opera had reviewed the tests
  110. # [13:53] <ArtB> Not sure how to make that happen though
  111. # [13:54] <ArtB> Is there a precedence/process that works better in some other group?
  112. # [13:55] <Lachy> I don't know. Maybe as part of the process, we should get people to speak up and say they intend to review the test suite, and then work directly with those people to get it approved
  113. # [13:55] <Lachy> That might be better than just putting it out there and hoping that someone is paying attention.
  114. # [13:57] <Lachy> ArtB, btw, I will also get a copy of dom4 up in W3C space shortly. There's just a few technical issues I've got to sort out first. I want to automate as much of it as possible, to avoid too much manual work each time there's an update
  115. # [13:58] <ArtB> That's great re DOM4 (I went through a similar exercise with the URL spec so at least for me, it was a bit of a rampup with anolis, etc.)
  116. # [13:59] <Lachy> do you have any scripts that automate changing all the boilerplate header into?
  117. # [14:00] <ArtB> No, I didn't create any scripts but there are various command line options to anolis that can be used
  118. # [14:01] <ArtB> but in the case of URL spec, Anne had removed the flags from the source that caused a branch for a W3C doc
  119. # [14:01] <darobin> copying into approved"?
  120. # [14:01] <darobin> aren't we all agreed that we shouldn't do directory structure changes anymore?
  121. # [14:01] * darobin summons the spirit of jgraham
  122. # [14:01] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak)
  123. # [14:01] <darobin> mmm, that's weird
  124. # [14:02] <ArtB> evolution my man
  125. # [14:02] <darobin> I summon jgraham but Ms2ger shows up — you call that evolution?
  126. # [14:03] <Yves> you had a syntax error in your summon query, it seems
  127. # [14:03] <Ms2ger> Brb wrong account
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  130. # [14:04] <jgraham`> darobin, hmm?
  131. # [14:04] <ArtB> oh, that's tricky
  132. # [14:05] <ArtB> but I do kinda' now know who be that Ms2ger person
  133. # [14:05] <darobin> ah, I knew I'd never seen those two in the same room at once
  134. # [14:05] <darobin> it's also Mr Last Week
  135. # [14:06] <darobin> jgraham`: can you move Anolis to GitHub please?
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  137. # [14:07] <jgraham> Me? Well I can I guess
  138. # [14:07] <jgraham`> Boo
  139. # [14:07] <jgraham> Oh, you people are confusing :p
  140. # [14:08] <darobin> jgraham: I was just trying to ferret out the fake :)
  141. # [14:09] * jgraham` is now known as Ms2ger
  142. # [14:10] <jgraham> So you summoned my spirit and Ms2ger showed up. I wonder if he is the ghost of jgraham past, present or future?
  143. # [14:10] <Ms2ger> jgraham, future, your present still thinks git was a good idea :)
  144. # [14:12] <jgraham> But you think that hg was a good idea, which sounds more like past to me :p
  145. # [14:12] <Ms2ger> You'll come back to the truth one day :)
  146. # [14:13] <Ms2ger> I know; I'm your future
  147. # [14:16] <Lachy> darobin, re 'copying into approved"? aren't we all agreed that we shouldn't do directory structure changes anymore?' - I just used the directory structure that the wiki told me to use. http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/Approval
  148. # [14:17] * Ms2ger thinks that's silly :)
  149. # [14:18] <darobin> Lachy: I guess we should reflect our consensus in the wiki too... *sigh*
  150. # [14:18] <Lachy> darobin, what is the consensus now?
  151. # [14:18] <darobin> not your fault though, we need to pull the finger out
  152. # [14:18] <darobin> jgraham: didn't you write up how we're supposed to do it now?
  153. # [14:18] * ArtB git vs. hg => the new emacs vs. vi
  154. # [14:19] <Yves> ed is the answer
  155. # [14:19] <darobin> ArtB: more like using a text editor versus modifying your disk with a magnet
  156. # [14:21] <ArtB> has the HTMLWG agreed to stop using approved? If so, please show me their new process
  157. # [14:21] <jgraham> Heh, hg isn't *that* bad
  158. # [14:21] <Lachy> darobin, i do modify my HDD with a magnet. The only challenge with doing that is spinning the platter by hand at 120 Hz and very precisely moving the magnet over it.
  159. # [14:21] * ArtB caches what jgraham just said re hg … or is Ms2ger that said that ...
  160. # [14:22] <jgraham> I don't think "better than modifying your disk by hand with a magnet" is really praise :)
  161. # [14:22] <Ms2ger> Mwuhahahahaha
  162. # [14:23] <dom> yeah, I made a couple of embarrassing typos last time I wrote a report with a magnet
  163. # [14:23] <jgraham> I don't know if there is formal consensus anywhere, but I proposed somewhere that we use directories based on the section titles in the spec and use a file per directory to list which tests are approved
  164. # [14:24] <darobin> ArtB: we've proposed this every time, and every time everyone says "yeah, let's do that" — that's the process
  165. # [14:24] <darobin> re the HTML Testing TF I still need to get on Kris's back about moving to GitHub
  166. # [14:24] <jgraham> I should probably edit some wiki somewhere so that it looks more official
  167. # [14:24] <ArtB> seems like a bunch of make work to go that route especially when test reviews are so infrequent
  168. # [14:25] <jgraham> For whom, over waht timescale?
  169. # [14:26] <jgraham> For the HTML WG we need the metadata about which tests are for which section anyway
  170. # [14:26] <darobin> jgraham: if you could wiki-edit it would be great
  171. # [14:26] <jgraham> And when we have that it is just a script to organise the directory structure (almost)
  172. # [14:26] <darobin> ArtB: what's make-work?
  173. # [14:27] <jgraham> In the long term, not moving stuff around is avoiding work
  174. # [14:28] <Lachy> jgraham, there are several problems with having directories named after section titles, especially for tests that cover multiple different sections at the same time.
  175. # [14:29] <Lachy> In those cases, you really have to figure out what the primary section being tested is
  176. # [14:29] <ArtB> assuming a process change would be retroactive (which I will oppose), if I understand the proposal correctly, someone would have remove the approved directory and then find where those test were in the submission subfolders and create a new file that includes the names of the files that were in the approved directory. But perhaps, I missed something or got this wrong.
  177. # [14:30] <jgraham> Lachy: Or toss a coin
  178. # [14:30] <ArtB> btw, I don't care what you do with the HTML test suite ;-)
  179. # [14:30] <Ms2ger> ArtB, rather then having approved/video and submission/Foo/video, you just have video.
  180. # [14:30] <jgraham> Lachy: I just don't think that "I don't really know which of these three sections I'm testing" is a common problem
  181. # [14:30] <ArtB> wfm
  182. # [14:31] <jgraham> ArtB: FWIW I think this is less important for webapps since the specs are more self-contained, although I think it would be a good model to use going forward
  183. # [14:32] <jgraham> So I don't propose doing big reorganisations of existing webapps testsuites
  184. # [14:32] <ArtB> so once HTMLWG has something new and wonderful and working really well, please let me know so WebApps can then talk about possibly changing its process. OK?
  185. # [14:32] <ArtB> cool!
  186. # [14:33] <jgraham> Anyway, can't edit the wiki right now, too much real work. But poke me later if I forget :)
  187. # [14:35] <darobin> ArtB: we have this amazing thing: $ ls -l approved/ | | awk '{print $9}' > approved.txt
  188. # [14:35] <darobin> and for the other part we've made this "mv" tool, but that's a bit more advanced so we'll cover it next week
  189. # [14:36] <chaals> lol
  190. # [14:36] <ArtB> HeHe. Call me when the HTMLWG has this all figured out ;)
  191. # [14:44] <Ms2ger> Don't hold your breath
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  194. # [14:49] <jgraham> Ms2ger: Don't tell him that. We might have got to see him go blue. Like in Avatar or something (I have never actually seen that film)
  195. # [14:53] <smaug> good for you (not seeing that film)
  196. # [14:57] * ArtB ain't dat dupid
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The end :)