/irc-logs / w3c / #webapps / 2013-09-04 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Sep 04 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #webapps
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  26. # [01:58] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/09/04-webapps-irc
  27. # [01:58] <Travis> zakim, this will be d3e
  28. # [01:58] <Zakim> ok, Travis; I see RWC_WAPI(D3E)8:00PM scheduled to start now
  29. # [01:58] <Zakim> RWC_WAPI(D3E)8:00PM has now started
  30. # [01:58] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  31. # [01:58] <Travis> zakim, [Microsoft] is me
  32. # [01:58] <Zakim> +Travis; got it
  33. # [01:59] <Travis> Present+ Travis_Leithead
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  37. # [01:59] <Travis> Present+ Gary_Kac
  38. # [01:59] <Zakim> + +1.425.893.aaaa
  39. # [01:59] <Zakim> - +1.425.893.aaaa
  40. # [01:59] <Zakim> + +1.425.893.aaaa
  41. # [01:59] * Travis can't spell your last name...
  42. # [02:00] <Travis> Zakim, 1.425.893.aaaa is garykac
  43. # [02:00] <Zakim> sorry, Travis, I do not recognize a party named '1.425.893.aaaa'
  44. # [02:00] <garykac> Kacmarcik
  45. # [02:00] <Travis> Zakim, +1.425.893.aaaa is garykac
  46. # [02:00] <Zakim> +garykac; got it
  47. # [02:00] <Travis> rrsagent, this meeting spans midnight
  48. # [02:00] <RRSAgent> ok, Travis; I will not start a new log at midnight
  49. # [02:03] <Travis> Today we will be reviewing the issue noted in the latest editors draft:
  50. # [02:03] <Travis> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/dom3events/raw-file/tip/html/DOM3-Events.html
  51. # [02:03] <garykac> Going through the ED and looking for "issue ": https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/dom3events/raw-file/tip/html/DOM3-Events.html
  52. # [02:04] <Travis> ISSUE 2: normative order for events
  53. # [02:04] * trackbot doesn't understand that ISSUE command.
  54. # [02:04] <Travis> How interoperable is the listed order?
  55. # [02:04] <Travis> garykac: Not sure. Need to verify
  56. # [02:05] <Travis> ... bug mentions that order is different from Opera/Chrome+Safari/IE are all different
  57. # [02:06] <Travis> We should re-evaluate the order in recent versions of IE/Chrome/Firefox.
  58. # [02:08] <Travis> Moving to the third issue: what else is needed for InputEvent type
  59. # [02:09] <Travis> ... I suspect that we could live with the current definition. We should propose this for D3E to the list and move on.
  60. # [02:10] <masayuki> It depends on what's the purpose of beforeinput.
  61. # [02:10] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_home@public.cloak)
  62. # [02:10] <Travis> Next Issue (4): Relation to editing spec.
  63. # [02:11] <Travis> me Masayuki are you on the call?
  64. # [02:11] * Travis Masayuki are you on the call?
  65. # [02:11] <kochi_home> hello
  66. # [02:11] <masayuki> No, I just on IRC.
  67. # [02:11] * Travis OK.
  68. # [02:11] <garykac> We're going through the ED: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/dom3events/raw-file/tip/html/DOM3-Events.html
  69. # [02:11] <garykac> We're looking at Issue #4
  70. # [02:12] <kochi_home> garykac: thanks
  71. # [02:12] * Quits: jsbell (~jsbell@public.cloak) ("There's no place like home...")
  72. # [02:12] <Travis> We think that for issue4, we would leave this burden up to the editing spec itself.
  73. # [02:12] <garykac> sgtm
  74. # [02:12] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
  75. # [02:13] <Travis> zakim, +[IPcaller] is kochi_home
  76. # [02:13] <Zakim> sorry, Travis, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]'
  77. # [02:13] <Travis> zakim, IPcaller is kochi_home
  78. # [02:13] <Zakim> +kochi_home; got it
  79. # [02:13] <Travis> Issue 5
  80. # [02:13] * trackbot doesn't understand that ISSUE command.
  81. # [02:16] <masayuki> beforeinput has a default action at least modifying the DOM.
  82. # [02:16] <Travis> The tables look OK (for what they are)
  83. # [02:17] <Travis> garykac: Good point.
  84. # [02:17] <Travis> Scribe: Travis
  85. # [02:17] <garykac> For issue 5, I don't think we need to add Document to the list
  86. # [02:17] <Travis> ScribeNick: Travis
  87. # [02:17] <garykac> masayuki: Yes, I'll add that.
  88. # [02:17] <kochi_home> ah, earthquake hits here...
  89. # [02:17] <Travis> !!
  90. # [02:17] <Travis> now on issue 6
  91. # [02:18] <garykac> DOM_LOCATION _MOBILE and _JOYSTICK
  92. # [02:18] <masayuki> I agree with that they are not needed.
  93. # [02:19] <masayuki> If the location is unknown, to use _STANDARD?
  94. # [02:20] <garykac> I don't think that '-1' as a value is useful. I think _STANDARD is a good enough default
  95. # [02:20] <garykac> masayuki: yes
  96. # [02:20] <Travis> OK, Issue 7
  97. # [02:20] <Travis> NumLock key location
  98. # [02:20] <Travis> Spec was ambiguous, but implementations now agree.
  99. # [02:20] <Travis> We will update the spec.
  100. # [02:21] <garykac> We're going to update the spec to match the implementations:
  101. # [02:21] <Travis> now issue 8-
  102. # [02:21] <Travis> locale
  103. # [02:21] <masayuki> NumLock key may be placed on standard position like notebook PC.
  104. # [02:22] <garykac> IF we move the locale into UIEvents, then we'll still have some implementations out there (at least IE)
  105. # [02:22] <garykac> It would be nice to clarify what exactly should be in locale, and that's more than we probably want to do for DOM3
  106. # [02:22] <Travis> Needs to be more clearly specified--we agree to move to UI Events spec for additional clarification
  107. # [02:22] <garykac> I'll move locale into UIEVents
  108. # [02:23] <kochi_home> sounds good
  109. # [02:23] <Travis> now issue 9: when compositionupdate is fired
  110. # [02:23] <masayuki> Sounds good. It's too complicated.
  111. # [02:23] <Travis> The spec now defines this, we should review it.
  112. # [02:24] <garykac> For issue #9, I updated the spec to specify when the event should fire. Please review the text and let me know if you have comments.
  113. # [02:24] <kochi_home> so do we agree compositionupdate should occur before DOM is updated?
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  116. # [02:27] <kochi_home> (the earthquake was M6.9...)
  117. # [02:28] <Travis> garykac: will add more detail to the key events during composition (regarding synthetic key insertion)
  118. # [02:29] <kochi_home> masayuki: issue 12
  119. # [02:29] <kochi_home> masayuki: do you think the order of composition events look good to you?
  120. # [02:30] <Travis> Now on issue 11.
  121. # [02:30] <masayuki> let me check...
  122. # [02:30] <garykac> For issue 11: Should compositionend still fire when compositionstart is canceled?
  123. # [02:30] <garykac> I don't have a preference
  124. # [02:31] <garykac> Is there a reason to fire it (or a reason to not fire it)?
  125. # [02:31] <Travis> IE should have an observable behavior (as it's cancellable)
  126. # [02:31] <Travis> Spec currently says to fire the compositionend event even after cancelling start.
  127. # [02:32] <garykac> I wrote the spec to always fire the compositionend. We can leave it that way unless there's a reason to change it.
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  129. # [02:32] <Travis> kochi_home: preference to fire the composition end event as speced.
  130. # [02:32] <kochi_home> issue 12
  131. # [02:32] * trackbot doesn't understand that ISSUE command.
  132. # [02:33] <Travis> now on issue12- DOM order of composition update
  133. # [02:33] <garykac> The draft is written to say: beforeinput + compositionevent + DOM-update + input
  134. # [02:34] <Travis> issue 12's text seems to match my expectations
  135. # [02:34] * trackbot doesn't understand that ISSUE command.
  136. # [02:35] <Travis> on issue 13
  137. # [02:35] <garykac> For issue #13, I added an example. Are there any other examples that we should include in the spec?
  138. # [02:35] <Travis> (modifier key combos that we may have missed)
  139. # [02:35] <masayuki> I like compositionupdate + beforeinput better.
  140. # [02:35] * Quits: lgombos (~gombos@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  141. # [02:37] <masayuki> Ctrl+Shift key is pressed, the key value becomes uppercase?
  142. # [02:37] <garykac> We have the uppercase example with 'Q'
  143. # [02:37] <kochi_home> masayuki: are you on the call?
  144. # [02:37] <masayuki> kochi_home: no.
  145. # [02:37] <Travis> masayuki: On CU + BI better, is this because you never expect compositionupdate to be cancelled?
  146. # [02:37] <garykac> Ah You'd like a control + shift example added?
  147. # [02:37] <kochi_home> masayuki: ah, ok.
  148. # [02:38] <masayuki> garykac: yes, for clearer spec.
  149. # [02:38] <garykac> masayuki: ok. I'll add it.
  150. # [02:40] <masayuki> garykac: Thanks, then, I'll work on implementing .key value for printable keys on Gecko.
  151. # [02:40] <masayuki> And I'll post some feedback.
  152. # [02:43] <Travis> masayuki: any rationale for your opinion earlier on compositionupdate before beforeinput?
  153. # [02:44] <masayuki> Travis: compositionupdate is a notification of native IME change, and beforeinput is a notification of to change the DOM. So, I feel compositionupdate kicks beforeinput is natural order.
  154. # [02:46] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  155. # [02:46] <garykac> ok. I'll update the draft to be cu + bi + DOM + input
  156. # [02:46] <Travis> I agree with masayuki's preference.
  157. # [02:47] <Travis> On issue14 - maxlength requirement
  158. # [02:48] <garykac> Perhaps 30 (or 31) would be better.
  159. # [02:48] <Travis> A limit seems reasonable.
  160. # [02:48] <masayuki> maxlength limitation is applied for untrusted events?
  161. # [02:49] <Travis> I wouldn't think so.
  162. # [02:50] <masayuki> Then, browser should have non-fixed string buffer in KeyboardEvent?
  163. # [02:52] <garykac> Ok. Then we won't specify a limit.
  164. # [02:52] <Travis> I think it might be better without specifying a limit
  165. # [02:52] <Travis> (Especially one that is UA enforced)
  166. # [02:52] <garykac> For issue #15, I'll need to investigate and give more info before we can talk about that.
  167. # [02:53] <masayuki> SGTM, but it should be allowed to cut keyname for security.
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  170. # [02:54] <masayuki> garykac: on Linux, Super and Hyper is usually mapped to Win-logo key. However, Meta key is mapped to another key (e.g., shift + alt)
  171. # [02:55] <Travis> Issue 16 - use of ' ' or 'Spacebar'
  172. # [02:55] * trackbot doesn't understand that ISSUE command.
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  174. # [02:56] <garykac> To test: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/d4e/raw-file/tip/key-event-test.html
  175. # [02:56] <garykac> (that last URL was for Travis)
  176. # [02:57] <masayuki> Windows and Mac have space key's keycode. However, Linux doesn't have it.
  177. # [02:57] <masayuki> So, Linux needs complicated code for setting "Spacebar".
  178. # [02:57] <Travis> I'm OK with making spacebar's key value ' ' (not special)
  179. # [02:58] <masayuki> Travis: I agree with it.
  180. # [02:58] <Travis> IE will need to change our implementation to match, but we'll have to change other stuff too :-)
  181. # [02:58] <garykac> That would probably be the most consistent.
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  183. # [02:59] <garykac> I'll update the draft with our comments and add any new issues.
  184. # [03:00] <Travis> We got through issues 1 - 16 today.
  185. # [03:00] <Travis> garykac: will make spec updates based on today's call.
  186. # [03:00] <garykac> Once we clear out all the issues, we'll be able to send the draft our more broadly.
  187. # [03:01] <masayuki> garykac: see https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21118#c3 for issue 17 ;-)
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  190. # [03:04] <Travis> Next teleconference?
  191. # [03:04] <Travis> Should we meet in two weeks?
  192. # [03:04] <garykac> 2 weeks from now?
  193. # [03:04] <masayuki> it's okay for me.
  194. # [03:04] <garykac> kochi: when is your next earthquake planned?
  195. # [03:05] <garykac> There's a button to file bugs for any issues that people find.
  196. # [03:05] <kochi_home> haha
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  198. # [03:05] <Travis> OK. Next call is on Sept. 17
  199. # [03:05] <garykac> sounds good,
  200. # [03:05] <Zakim> -Travis
  201. # [03:05] <Zakim> -kochi_home
  202. # [03:05] <Zakim> -garykac
  203. # [03:05] <Zakim> RWC_WAPI(D3E)8:00PM has ended
  204. # [03:05] <Zakim> Attendees were Travis, garykac, kochi_home
  205. # [03:05] <garykac> g'bye
  206. # [03:06] <masayuki> see you.
  207. # [03:06] <Travis> rrsagent, make the minutes
  208. # [03:06] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/04-webapps-minutes.html Travis
  209. # [03:06] <Travis> rrsagent, make the logs public
  210. # [03:06] <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make the logs public', Travis. Try /msg RRSAgent help
  211. # [03:06] <Travis> rrsagent, set the log public
  212. # [03:06] <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'set the log public', Travis. Try /msg RRSAgent help
  213. # [03:07] <Travis> rrsagent, set logs public
  214. # [03:07] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, Travis
  215. # [03:07] <Travis> rrsagent, please make the minutes
  216. # [03:07] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/04-webapps-minutes.html Travis
  217. # [03:08] <Travis> rssagent, please publish the minutes
  218. # [03:08] <Travis> rrsagent, please publish the minutes
  219. # [03:08] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/04-webapps-minutes.html Travis
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  279. # [11:36] * Quits: jkomoros (~uid7860@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  280. # [11:38] * Quits: cwilso (~uid10206@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  281. # [11:38] * Quits: richt (~uid12457@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  282. # [11:39] * Quits: slightlyoff (~uid1768@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  283. # [11:39] * Quits: tobie (tobie@public.cloak)
  284. # [11:40] * Quits: Domenic_ (~uid10976@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  285. # [11:46] * Joins: skddc (~anonymous@public.cloak)
  286. # [11:49] * Quits: skddc (~anonymous@public.cloak) (skddc)
  287. # [11:49] * Joins: skddc (~anonymous@public.cloak)
  288. # [12:02] * Quits: jgraham (~jgraham@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  289. # [12:06] * Joins: slightlyoff (~uid1768@public.cloak)
  290. # [12:11] * Quits: mounir (~mounir@public.cloak) ("leaving")
  291. # [12:11] * Joins: mounir (~mounir@public.cloak)
  292. # [12:15] * Joins: jgraham (~jgraham@public.cloak)
  293. # [12:22] * Joins: abarsto (~abarsto@public.cloak)
  294. # [12:22] * abarsto is now known as ArtB
  295. # [12:36] * Joins: jkomoros (~uid7860@public.cloak)
  296. # [12:37] * Joins: cwilso (~uid10206@public.cloak)
  297. # [12:38] * Joins: Domenic_ (~uid10976@public.cloak)
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  301. # [13:13] * Quits: smaug (~chatzilla@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  302. # [13:13] * smaug_ is now known as smaug
  303. # [13:16] * Quits: lgombos (~gombos@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  304. # [13:33] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  305. # [13:34] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak)
  306. # [13:37] * Quits: ArtB (~abarsto@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
  307. # [13:38] * Joins: glenn (~gadams@public.cloak)
  308. # [13:41] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  309. # [13:42] * Quits: glenn (~gadams@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  310. # [13:42] * Joins: abarsto (~abarsto@public.cloak)
  311. # [13:42] * abarsto is now known as ArtB
  312. # [13:42] * Joins: glenn (~gadams@public.cloak)
  313. # [13:43] * Quits: glenn (~gadams@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  314. # [13:52] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak)
  315. # [13:56] * Joins: glenn (~gadams@public.cloak)
  316. # [13:57] * Joins: lgombos (~gombos@public.cloak)
  317. # [14:01] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
  318. # [14:01] * Parts: Zakim (zakim@public.cloak) (Zakim)
  319. # [14:19] * Quits: lgombos (~gombos@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  320. # [14:21] * Joins: dom (dom@public.cloak)
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  322. # [14:23] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  323. # [14:23] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak)
  324. # [14:31] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  325. # [14:35] * Quits: glenn (~gadams@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  326. # [14:39] * Quits: lgombos (~gombos@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  327. # [14:48] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak)
  328. # [14:53] * Joins: lgombos (~gombos@public.cloak)
  329. # [14:58] * Quits: chaals (~Adium@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
  330. # [15:16] * Joins: fjh (~fhirsch3@public.cloak)
  331. # [15:24] * Joins: davidb (~davidb@public.cloak)
  332. # [15:43] * Joins: Lachy_ (~Lachy@public.cloak)
  333. # [15:44] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  334. # [16:12] * Quits: dom (dom@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
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  337. # [16:34] * Quits: skddc (~anonymous@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  338. # [16:34] * skddc_ is now known as skddc
  339. # [16:54] * Joins: davidb_ (~davidb@public.cloak)
  340. # [16:54] * Quits: davidb (~davidb@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  341. # [16:54] * davidb_ is now known as davidb
  342. # [17:22] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@public.cloak)
  343. # [17:30] * Quits: lgombos (~gombos@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  344. # [17:33] * Quits: Lachy_ (~Lachy@public.cloak) ("Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com")
  345. # [17:45] * Joins: glenn (~gadams@public.cloak)
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  347. # [18:07] * Quits: lgombos (~gombos@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  348. # [18:14] * Quits: ArtB (~abarsto@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
  349. # [18:14] * Joins: jsbell (~jsbell@public.cloak)
  350. # [18:21] * Joins: lgombos (~gombos@public.cloak)
  351. # [18:25] * Quits: dom (dom@public.cloak) ("")
  352. # [18:27] * Quits: darobin (rberjon@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  353. # [18:35] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@public.cloak) (lmclister)
  354. # [18:35] * Quits: lgombos (~gombos@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  355. # [18:35] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@public.cloak)
  356. # [18:39] * Joins: abarsto (~abarsto@public.cloak)
  357. # [18:39] * abarsto is now known as ArtB
  358. # [18:40] * Joins: lgombos (~gombos@public.cloak)
  359. # [18:44] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
  360. # [18:55] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@public.cloak)
  361. # [19:04] * Quits: skddc (~anonymous@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  362. # [19:27] * Joins: darobin (rberjon@public.cloak)
  363. # [19:38] * Quits: smaug (~chatzilla@public.cloak) ("Reconnecting…")
  364. # [19:38] * Joins: smaug (~chatzilla@public.cloak)
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  366. # [20:11] * Joins: chaals (~Adium@public.cloak)
  367. # [20:20] * Quits: chaals (~Adium@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
  368. # [20:24] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  369. # [20:24] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak)
  370. # [20:31] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
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  372. # [20:57] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak) (tantek)
  373. # [20:57] * Quits: divya (~Adium@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  374. # [21:59] * Quits: darobin (rberjon@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  375. # [22:18] * Quits: davidb (~davidb@public.cloak) (davidb)
  376. # [22:23] * Joins: divya (~Adium@public.cloak)
  377. # [22:37] * Joins: divya1 (~Adium@public.cloak)
  378. # [22:39] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
  379. # [22:42] * Quits: divya (~Adium@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  380. # [22:56] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak) (tantek)
  381. # [23:19] * Joins: divya (~Adium@public.cloak)
  382. # [23:19] * Quits: divya1 (~Adium@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  383. # [23:22] * Joins: divya1 (~Adium@public.cloak)
  384. # [23:26] * Quits: divya (~Adium@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  385. # [23:54] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  386. # [23:54] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak)
  387. # Session Close: Thu Sep 05 00:00:00 2013

The end :)