/irc-logs / w3c / #webapps / 2014-04-16 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Apr 16 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #webapps
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  24. # [02:00] <masayuki> Travis: Hello.
  25. # [02:00] <Travis> Hi!
  26. # [02:00] * Joins: Zakim (zakim@public.cloak)
  27. # [02:00] * Joins: RRSAgent (rrsagent@public.cloak)
  28. # [02:00] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/04/15-webapps-irc
  29. # [02:00] <Travis> RRSAgent: this meeting spans midnight
  30. # [02:00] <RRSAgent> ok, Travis; I will not start a new log at midnight
  31. # [02:00] <Travis> zakim, this will be dom3
  32. # [02:00] <Zakim> ok, Travis; I see RWC_WAPI(D3E)8:00PM scheduled to start now
  33. # [02:01] <masayuki> Will start the meeting soon, right? You wrote wrong time of Tokyo due to summer time.
  34. # [02:01] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  35. # [02:01] <masayuki> I realized it now :-)
  36. # [02:01] <Travis> Ooops.
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  38. # [02:02] <Zakim> RWC_WAPI(D3E)8:00PM has now started
  39. # [02:02] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  40. # [02:02] <Travis> Present+ Travis_Leithead
  41. # [02:02] <Travis> Zakim: Microsoft is Travis
  42. # [02:03] <Zakim> + +1.425.893.aaaa
  43. # [02:03] <Travis> Zakim: [Microsoft] is Travis
  44. # [02:03] <Travis> Present+ Gary
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  46. # [02:04] <Travis> Zakim: 1.425.89 is garykac
  47. # [02:04] <garykac> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mRTqY-2la5keSHhJUtEvSG3brMe_W3KRlkLWFVbV9yM/edit?pli=1
  48. # [02:04] <Zakim> + +1.650.214.aabb
  49. # [02:04] <Travis> scribe: travil
  50. # [02:05] * Joins: masayuki_ (~masayuki@public.cloak)
  51. # [02:05] <Travis> Present+ kochi
  52. # [02:05] <Travis> Zakim: 1.650.214 is kochi
  53. # [02:06] <Travis> kochi: I was at the WebApps f2f and presented the IME api
  54. # [02:06] <Travis> ... nothing much was discussed about DOM3, outside of what is in the minutes.
  55. # [02:06] <Travis> garykac: I saw that, and wondered if there was any extra conversation.
  56. # [02:06] <Travis> kochi: Gary, did you dial into the f2f meeing
  57. # [02:06] <Travis> garykac: No, didn't know when to do so.
  58. # [02:07] <Travis> scribeNick: Travis
  59. # [02:07] <Travis> Topic: DOM3 Events at the F2F
  60. # [02:07] * Travis loves his new Microsoft Sculpt Keyboard :-)
  61. # [02:08] <Travis> garykac: Looking at the minutes...
  62. # [02:08] <garykac> Link to minutes: http://www.w3.org/2014/04/10-webapps-minutes.html
  63. # [02:10] <garykac> What is PointerEvent's dependency on UIEvents?
  64. # [02:10] <Travis> garykac: notes say there is a dependency on UIEvents spec???
  65. # [02:10] <garykac> If it's |buttons|, I believe we have all that in D3E.
  66. # [02:10] <Travis> Travis: I think this was for the 'buttons' change to support the value of -1 (where it was previously defined as an unsigned long
  67. # [02:11] <Travis> ... I updated the spec for that.
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  69. # [02:11] <garykac> We should confirm that and let them know they depend on D3E now.
  70. # [02:13] <Travis> garykac: also note about plan to split the spec...
  71. # [02:13] <garykac> From the f2f, there was agreement to break out the |code| and |key| tables if that can speed up the spec.
  72. # [02:14] <Travis> Travis: This was the WG acknowledging that anything to speed up the process of finishing the spec
  73. # [02:14] <garykac> All three docs (D3E, co]de-values and key-values) will live in the same Hg repository for now.
  74. # [02:14] <Travis> ... It was suggested that a registry or wiki would do, but we think another rec-track doc is sufficient and only adds minor overhead.
  75. # [02:14] <Travis> Topic: Recent document updates.
  76. # [02:15] <garykac> The doc above has the latest status of the bugs
  77. # [02:15] <masayuki_> I think that it's better we can change the code/key table even if we found some new bugs in the table *after* D3E finished.
  78. # [02:16] <Travis> garykac: masayuki_: I agreee
  79. # [02:16] <garykac> Exactly, that's why we want to do that - it'll make updating the tables a lot easier
  80. # [02:16] <Travis> garykac: Now, noting that lots of old bugs in the doc are fixed!
  81. # [02:17] <garykac> At the bottom of the doc are the closed bugs. Please review them (later!) and make sure there's nothing overlooked when they were fixed.
  82. # [02:17] <garykac> Question: In 5.2.7.5 "Key Events During Composition".
  83. # [02:17] <masayuki_> Yeah, I'll review the closed bugs and I'll comment some bugs which ask some questions from garykac or Travis.
  84. # [02:18] <garykac> I'm wondering if we should change "SHOULD be suppressed" to "MAY be suppressed"?
  85. # [02:19] <masayuki_> I think so > "SHOULD" vs. "MAY".
  86. # [02:19] <masayuki_> "SHOULD" is good for "keypress".
  87. # [02:20] <garykac> Well, keypress is deprecated ^_^
  88. # [02:20] <garykac> In the doc, let's start at the bottom of the list (since those are the newer ones)
  89. # [02:21] <garykac> Bug 25359 - Use [Unforgeable] and [NewObject] annotations in D3E
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  91. # [02:21] <garykac> I *think* this is straightforward, but I wonder if there are other new annotations that we should be using.
  92. # [02:21] <masayuki_> Yeah, but it's clearer for authors if we define keypress event's reference behavior.
  93. # [02:21] <garykac> Travis: are you familiar with these annotations
  94. # [02:23] <Travis> Yes.
  95. # [02:23] <garykac> I can easily fix isTrusted and createEvent, but I want to make sure we update any other cases as well.
  96. # [02:23] <garykac> Travis suggests updating this bug to note that we need to compare D3E with D4 and make sure the IDL matches
  97. # [02:24] <garykac> (I just updated the bug to note that we need to compare with D4)
  98. # [02:25] <garykac> Bug 25358 - "Context info: UIEvent.view" sometimes only has defaultView
  99. # [02:25] <garykac> This requires that we double check and verify the correct values - I don't know offhand.
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  101. # [02:26] <garykac> Should all of these allow 'null'?
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  103. # [02:28] <Travis> The view should always be a Window (abstractView) if the event is Trusted.
  104. # [02:28] <Travis> ... Since these can be trusted/untrusted, the view attribute can always be null.
  105. # [02:29] <garykac> I've updated the bug to note that we'll be changing it to allow null.
  106. # [02:30] <garykac> 25357 - Target for event type is not complete
  107. # [02:33] <garykac> Bug 25210 - Targets for abort event is correct?
  108. # [02:34] <garykac> For 25357 - I updated the bug to note that we need to update the tables to be consistent.
  109. # [02:35] <garykac> For 25210, we need to make it consistent with what HTML5 says.
  110. # [02:38] <garykac> Bug 24797 - We've fixed this, so this is no longer a D3E issue. I'll be resolving (again) with a note that the Window vs. WindowProxy issue should be addressed in a more appropriate doc.
  111. # [02:39] <garykac> big 24044 - How do browsers decide combining character from non-combining character at computing .key value of dead key?
  112. # [02:39] <garykac> s/big/Bug/
  113. # [02:39] <garykac> I need to think more about this, so we should move on to the next one.
  114. # [02:40] <garykac> Bug 23913 - beforeinput should be fired only when the DOM change is caused by direct input by keypress or composition
  115. # [02:40] <masayuki_> I think that using DeadKey is smart since authors can get input value with input/beforeinput/compositionupdate events.
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  117. # [02:41] <garykac> Consensus (as far as I can tell) is that we shouldn't fire beforeinput/input for execCommand
  118. # [02:42] <garykac> We don't currently discuss execCommand anywhere in the D3E - I suppose that I can just add a note in the InputEvent section about this.
  119. # [02:42] <masayuki_> About bug 23913, I think that if browser thinks "dangerous" to dispatch beforeinput at some cases, browser shouldn't dispatch beforeinput. I.e., before should be defined with "MAY".
  120. # [02:43] <masayuki_> Then, even with execCommand, browsers might be able to dispatch beforeinput safely.
  121. # [02:43] <garykac> WE should define the dangerous cases if we can. Most of the time it is clearly not dangerous, so saying MAY doesn't seem right.
  122. # [02:43] <garykac> What other dangerous situations are there other than execCommand?>
  123. # [02:44] <masayuki_> I'm not familiar with "dangerous" cases... Olli or Boris of Mozilla might know about it...
  124. # [02:44] <Travis> Script modifications to the value of an input element wouldn't trigger beforeinput, correct?
  125. # [02:45] <Travis> I guess the idea that execCommand is a proxy for a user input, then that makes it dangerous.
  126. # [02:45] <masayuki_> Anyway, I need to implement beforeinput experimentaly, first...
  127. # [02:45] <Travis> Real automation systems like WebDriver would still cause the event to fire though.
  128. # [02:45] <Travis> We just want IME systems to also fire it.
  129. # [02:45] <garykac> I'm happy have a "when not to fire beforeinput/input" section that listing the situations when it's not appropriate. We could start with execCommand and add to it.
  130. # [02:46] <Travis> I think that sounds good to address this concern.
  131. # [02:46] <garykac> I would hope that automation systems would fire these events (otherwise testing will be hard).
  132. # [02:46] <masayuki_> I strongly believe that "input" should be fired always since current browsers implement so.
  133. # [02:47] <masayuki_> I don't think that beforeinput and input should always be fired as a pair.
  134. # [02:48] <garykac> beforeinput and input are supposed to be fired as a pair - the DOM has already been updated by the time the input event it sent. beforeinput is the last change to look at the DOM before the update.
  135. # [02:50] <masayuki_> Anyway, it might be better to keep this discussion in bug 23913.
  136. # [02:51] <garykac> Yes, but the discussion died down and no one responded (>sniff<) to my call for comments.
  137. # [02:52] <garykac> But keeping the conversation in the bug sgtm
  138. # [02:52] <masayuki_> Yep, I'm sorry about that...
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  140. # [02:58] <garykac> Is there anything else to discuss before we stop?
  141. # [02:58] <masayuki_> FYI: I'm implementing KeyboardEvent.code now.
  142. # [02:59] <masayuki_> FYI #2: I implemented KeyboardEvent.isComposing and InputEvent.isComposing.
  143. # [02:59] <garykac> BTW, masayuki, thank you for filing all those great bugs
  144. # [02:59] <masayuki_> Of course, on Firefox.
  145. # [03:00] <masayuki_> garykac: you're welcome.
  146. # [03:01] <garykac> OK. I think that we're done for today.
  147. # [03:01] <garykac> I'm hoping to close out more bugs for next time,
  148. # [03:02] <garykac> Should we meet next week? Same time?
  149. # [03:02] <Travis> RRSAgent: please make the minutes
  150. # [03:02] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/15-webapps-minutes.html Travis
  151. # [03:03] <garykac> Travis says that next week sounds good.'
  152. # [03:03] <Zakim> - +1.650.214.aabb
  153. # [03:03] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  154. # [03:03] <Zakim> - +1.425.893.aaaa
  155. # [03:03] <Zakim> RWC_WAPI(D3E)8:00PM has ended
  156. # [03:03] <Zakim> Attendees were [Microsoft], +1.425.893.aaaa, +1.650.214.aabb
  157. # [03:03] <Travis> RRSAgent: make minutes public
  158. # [03:03] <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', Travis. Try /msg RRSAgent help
  159. # [03:03] <Travis> RRSAgent: make logs public
  160. # [03:03] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, Travis
  161. # [03:03] <masayuki_> I'm ok to meet next week.
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  197. # [13:21] <ArtB> RRSAgent, make minutes
  198. # [13:21] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/15-webapps-minutes.html ArtB
  199. # [13:21] <ArtB> Meeting: DOM 3 Events Call
  200. # [13:21] <ArtB> Chair: Travis
  201. # [13:22] <ArtB> RRSAgent, make minutes
  202. # [13:22] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/15-webapps-minutes.html ArtB
  203. # [13:22] <ArtB> rrsagent, bye
  204. # [13:22] <RRSAgent> I see no action items
  205. # [13:22] * Parts: RRSAgent (rrsagent@public.cloak) (RRSAgent)
  206. # [13:30] <ArtB> ACTION: barstow followup with Pointer Events group re if their spec still needs Normative Reference to [UIEvents]
  207. # [13:30] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
  208. # [13:30] <trackbot> Created ACTION-729 - Followup with pointer events group re if their spec still needs normative reference to [uievents] [on Arthur Barstow - due 2014-04-23].
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  261. # [23:21] * Joins: lgombos_ (~gombos@public.cloak)
  262. # [23:31] * Quits: lgombos_ (~gombos@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  263. # [23:39] * Joins: lgombos (~gombos@public.cloak)
  264. # Session Close: Thu Apr 17 00:00:00 2014

The end :)