/irc-logs / w3c / #webapps / 2014-05-07 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed May 07 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #webapps
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  22. # [02:00] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/05/07-webapps-irc
  23. # [02:01] <Travis> zakim, this is dom3
  24. # [02:01] <Zakim> ok, Travis; that matches RWC_WAPI(D3E)8:00PM
  25. # [02:01] <Travis> rrsagent, this meeting spans midnight
  26. # [02:01] <RRSAgent> ok, Travis; I will not start a new log at midnight
  27. # [02:01] <Travis> RRSAgent, make logs public
  28. # [02:01] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, Travis
  29. # [02:01] <Travis> Present+ Travis
  30. # [02:01] <Travis> scribe: Travis
  31. # [02:01] <Travis> scribeNick: Travis
  32. # [02:02] * Joins: garykac (~garykac@public.cloak)
  33. # [02:02] <masayuki> Hello,
  34. # [02:02] <garykac> hallo
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  36. # [02:03] <Zakim> +garykac
  37. # [02:04] <Travis> Present+ Gary
  38. # [02:04] <Travis> Present+ Masayuki
  39. # [02:04] <garykac> Masayuki: I put in a fix for https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23906
  40. # [02:05] <Travis> Zakim, who is on the phone?
  41. # [02:05] <Zakim> On the phone I see [Microsoft], garykac
  42. # [02:05] <Travis> zakim, [microsoft] is me
  43. # [02:05] <Zakim> +Travis; got it
  44. # [02:05] <garykac> BAsically just adding a virtual 'Accel' key that maps to 'OS' (Win), 'Meta' (Mac) or Super/Hyper (Linux)
  45. # [02:05] <Travis> Topic: Trying to close out 23906
  46. # [02:05] <Travis> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23906
  47. # [02:06] <garykac> And with the modifier keys, we have attributes for shift, alt, meta and control
  48. # [02:06] <garykac> We don't want to any more attributes (since we'd probably have to add another 6 or 7, which would be unwieldy)
  49. # [02:07] <garykac> But if we want people to use getmodifierstate, should these 4 attributes be marked as deprecated?
  50. # [02:07] <garykac> Also, we have a lot of modifier keys in the modifier key list. I'm not sure that all of them make sense with getmodifierstate().
  51. # [02:07] <masayuki> garykac: Oh, that's not my intent of bug 23906. I want it maps to Ctrl (Win), Command (Mac), depends on settings (Linux).
  52. # [02:09] <garykac> masayuki:ah. 'ctrl' for win makes sense. that way 'Accel' + c is "copy" on all 3 OSs.
  53. # [02:10] * Joins: jcraig (~jcraig@public.cloak)
  54. # [02:11] <masayuki> Um, adding only on getModifierState() is simpler, though...
  55. # [02:13] <garykac> masayuki: yes, it could have been put there
  56. # [02:14] <masayuki> I think that on most environments, the acceleration key on Linux is Ctrl. E.g., Fedora and Ubuntu.
  57. # [02:16] <masayuki> However, somebody using Mac keyboard may customize acceleration key as Super or Hyper if it's possible.
  58. # [02:17] <garykac> Is it easy to get the current acceleration key on Linux?
  59. # [02:18] <Travis> I'm wondering why we are using the term "Accel" -- this confused me, and made me think of ALT key use, such as ALT+F to get the File menu, ALT+T for the tools menu, ALT+H for help... I thought those things were called "accellerators"
  60. # [02:18] <garykac> If it's hard to determine which key is being used for menu shortcuts, then this might be too complex to be worthwhile.
  61. # [02:18] <masayuki> On Firefox, users can customize it with Firefox's about:config. How about Google Chrome?
  62. # [02:20] <garykac> masayuki: I don't know
  63. # [02:21] <masayuki> I think that which is an "Accel" modifier should be decided by browser because its purpose is that providing a way to useful web apps own shortcut key implementation.
  64. # [02:22] * Joins: karl (~karlcow@public.cloak)
  65. # [02:22] <masayuki> If browser's shortcut key is Alt+Foo, when KeyboardEvent.altKey is true, .getModifierState("Accel") should return true.
  66. # [02:23] <Travis> I just remembered that Web applications can't reliabily work with ALT (on windows) anyway, because the OS steals focus from the browser client to focus the browser frame's accelerator menus. So, yeah, ALT doesn't really work as an Accel key.
  67. # [02:23] <masayuki> Travis: Yes. It's just an example.
  68. # [02:24] <Travis> My only suggestion at this point is to go with the full name "Accelerator" rather than "Accel" which seems like a weird shortname...
  69. # [02:24] <garykac> Does FF Mac have the ability to change the accel key? I don't see it in prefs.
  70. # [02:25] <masayuki> garykac: Yes, it's ui.key.accelKey. You need to reboot Firefox, though.
  71. # [02:26] <masayuki> 17 for Ctrl, 18 for Alt, 224 for Meta, 91 for Win, 0 for none.
  72. # [02:27] <masayuki> (the values are .keyCode value on Gecko...)
  73. # [02:29] <masayuki> I'm not sure which is better "Accel" or "Accelerator" since it should be natural word for native English engineers.
  74. # [02:30] <Travis> Actually, "AccelKey" might work for me.
  75. # [02:30] <garykac> masayuki: on Mac most shortcuts use ⌘, so changing this setting would affect those shortcuts. But the "Home" shortcut is Option + Arrow. What would happen to this shortcut if I change my default shortcut to Option?
  76. # [02:31] <masayuki> garykac: Not affected. And it may conflict with Command + Home.
  77. # [02:31] <garykac> ok.
  78. # [02:32] <garykac> so, I'll change the text to map 'Accel''Ctrl'
  79. # [02:32] <garykac> ...'Accel' to 'Control' for Windows
  80. # [02:34] <garykac> Another issue: there are 15 modifier keys. I'm not sure it makes sense for getmodifierstate to support them all.
  81. # [02:34] <Travis> HTML5 is using the term accesskey for the ALT combos in Windows: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/single-page.html#using-the-accesskey-attribute-to-define-a-command-on-other-elements
  82. # [02:34] <Travis> So, basically "access" is out for a name :)
  83. # [02:34] <garykac> On the Mac, you cannot query for the state of the CapsLock key. So I'm not sure how get modifier state would support that.
  84. # [02:35] <garykac> And I think that Fn and FnLock are not exposed as well.
  85. # [02:37] <Travis> Note, we now have "DeadKey" in the key tables as of a few days ago... may need to change that to just "Dead"?
  86. # [02:38] <garykac> I think that 'Dead' is more consistent - we don't use the 'Key' suffix for any other key value.
  87. # [02:39] <masayuki> garykac: It's included in [NSEvent modifierFlags]. See http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/widget/cocoa/nsCocoaUtils.mm#550
  88. # [02:41] <garykac> masayuki: That's great. Being able to query CapsLock state is very useful. I've heard that there were problems getting it on the Mac - glad to see there's a way to do it./
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  91. # [02:47] <garykac> With beforeinput, FF has a bug: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=970802
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  94. # [02:56] <Travis> We noted that in HTML5, the input event is just a generic Event type, not an InputEvent. There's no technical reason to have .data, but having isComposing is useful. We should be mindful that this is different from HTML.
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  96. # [03:00] <garykac> OK. I'm going to check with folks internally who are interested in working on beforeinput. To check to see if they have any comments on it.
  97. # [03:00] <Travis> I think we're done for today.
  98. # [03:01] <garykac> Aside from that, I don't have anything else today to talk about.
  99. # [03:01] <Travis> I plan to work on some more bugs this week.
  100. # [03:01] <garykac> I'll make the additional changes to clarify the Accel key text. I'll resolve the bug and ping you two to review the updated text.
  101. # [03:01] <masayuki> I'm working on KeyboardEvent.code on Firefox.
  102. # [03:01] <garykac> Thansk!
  103. # [03:01] <masayuki> Thanks.
  104. # [03:01] <Travis> See ya!
  105. # [03:02] <garykac> masayuki: Cool. Let us know if you encounter anything strange.
  106. # [03:02] <Zakim> -Travis
  107. # [03:02] <garykac> g'night.
  108. # [03:02] <Zakim> -garykac
  109. # [03:02] <Zakim> RWC_WAPI(D3E)8:00PM has ended
  110. # [03:02] <Zakim> Attendees were garykac, Travis
  111. # [03:02] <Travis> rrsagent, please make the minutes
  112. # [03:02] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/07-webapps-minutes.html Travis
  113. # [03:02] <Travis> RRSAgent, make logs public
  114. # [03:02] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, Travis
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  148. # [12:22] <ArtB> RRSAgent, make minutes
  149. # [12:22] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/07-webapps-minutes.html ArtB
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  152. # [12:35] <ArtB> rrsagent, bye
  153. # [12:35] <RRSAgent> I see no action items
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  162. # [17:15] <smaug> ArtB: what does "Nokia-CTO/Boston" mean?
  163. # [17:15] <ArtB> smaug, sorry about that spam
  164. # [17:16] <chaals> It means Nokia are going to buy Boston...
  165. # [17:16] <chaals> (actually, that they already did, but will announce it soon as a new division. Just after the next MA state election...)
  166. # [17:17] <ArtB> smaug, I've been moving my W3C accounts off of nokia.com - I prolly missed a few. Which list got the "Nokia…" cruft?
  167. # [17:17] <smaug> I noticed that in Frederick's emails
  168. # [17:17] <smaug> to public-device-apis@w3.org
  169. # [17:18] <jgraham> ArtB is going to be the new CTO of Boston?
  170. # [17:18] <jgraham> Sounds good
  171. # [17:18] <ArtB> he's probably using an Outlook MUA and if so, AFAIK, there is no way to prevent that info being added in the From: header :-(
  172. # [17:18] <chaals> Ssssh! It's a secret.
  173. # [17:19] <ArtB> jgraham, you heard it here so it must be true ;)
  174. # [17:19] * chaals guesses it really means Art works in the group of the CTO, in Boston. But that doesn't sound nearly as good, so let's forget it.
  175. # [17:19] <chaals> Yep. Boston is going to be running on s65 from next year.
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  177. # [17:22] <ArtB> smaug, re CTO and http://www.acronymfinder.com/CTO.html ; let's go with Cape Town Opera
  178. # [17:24] <smaug> :)
  179. # [17:24] * smaug has no idea who is Nokia's CTO these days
  180. # [17:30] <ArtB> chaals
  181. # [17:32] <chaals> In that case, we're going to move Boston onto s40.
  182. # [17:32] <chaals> And run traffic management in a port of !E6.
  183. # [17:33] <chaals> (Evidence suggests I have already achieved that goal. Can I have a bonus now please?)
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The end :)