/irc-logs / w3c / #webapps / 2014-05-14 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed May 14 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #webapps
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  28. # [02:03] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/05/14-webapps-irc
  29. # [02:03] <Travis> zakim, this is D3e
  30. # [02:03] <Zakim> ok, Travis; that matches RWC_WAPI(D3E)8:00PM
  31. # [02:03] <Travis> RRSAgent: this meeting spans midnight
  32. # [02:03] <RRSAgent> ok, Travis; I will not start a new log at midnight
  33. # [02:03] <Travis> RRSAgent: make logs public
  34. # [02:03] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, Travis
  35. # [02:03] <Travis> Present+ Travis
  36. # [02:04] <masayuki> Hello.
  37. # [02:08] <Travis> masayuki: welcome!
  38. # [02:08] <Travis> Bug list: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=DOM3%20Events&list_id=36781&product=WebAppsWG&;resolution=---
  39. # [02:09] <Travis> Gary and I worked a little this past week on some of the bugs, and got down to 7 last night :-)
  40. # [02:10] * Joins: masayuki_ (~masayuki@public.cloak)
  41. # [02:12] * Travis just gave Gary a text message reminder about this meeting...
  42. # [02:14] * Joins: garykac (~garykac@public.cloak)
  43. # [02:16] <Zakim> + +1.425.936.aaaa
  44. # [02:16] <Travis> zakim, +1.425 is garykac
  45. # [02:16] <Zakim> +garykac; got it
  46. # [02:16] <Travis> Present+ garykac
  47. # [02:17] <Travis> scribe: travis
  48. # [02:17] <Travis> scribenick: travis
  49. # [02:17] <Travis> Topic: reviewing last few bugs :-)
  50. # [02:17] <Travis> First bug we'd like to talk about is: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25485
  51. # [02:18] <Travis> This bug concerns the overlap between DOM L3 and DOM4's definition of the eventing system (model)
  52. # [02:18] <garykac> If we remove the stuff covered in DOM4, then we remove Sections 3 and 4 (and a lot of glossary items)
  53. # [02:18] <garykac> Before doing that, we'd need to check with them and run a check to make sure that we don't have anything that should be added to their spec.
  54. # [02:19] <Travis> I'm not married to any of the content in those old sections; it might be best for the web community to only have a single source of info for the 'official' definition of how the event model works.
  55. # [02:19] <garykac> We (D3E) would probably keep all the deprecated stuff in the appendices (unfortunately).
  56. # [02:19] <Travis> Gary and I reviewed the DOM4 spec briefly and it looks fairly complete, though we want to double-check.
  57. # [02:19] <garykac> travis: agreed
  58. # [02:20] <garykac> We should compose an email and send it to the list
  59. # [02:20] <garykac> Should we try to compose a draft here?
  60. # [02:20] <Travis> I think the essense of the draft will be what we think are the duplicated parts, and a proposal of how the spec would look without them?
  61. # [02:21] <garykac> We should also call attention to the spec dependency graph: HTML5 -> D3E -> DOM4 (since we would now depend on DOM4)
  62. # [02:22] <Travis> Yes, it seems a little odd conceptually, but might be OK given everyone's understanding of how this stuff happened historically.
  63. # [02:23] <Travis> If we don't eliminate the redundancy, then we need to be certain that our spec and DOM4 are semantically equivalent.
  64. # [02:23] <Travis> (We use prose descriptions, DOM4 uses algorithms--a little hard to rationalize the difference, but it can be done.)
  65. # [02:25] <garykac> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VqwfHyNDtoOoDzZZ7xZlrcxtcy8ZORV1pUoRjRbwJro/edit
  66. # [02:30] * Quits: smaug (~chatzilla@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  67. # [02:39] <garykac> OK. The doc looks like a first draft
  68. # [02:39] <garykac> We should sleep on it and review tomorrow-ish and then send it out to the MLs.
  69. # [02:44] <garykac> masayuki: Did you see the update to https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23908
  70. # [02:45] <garykac> We'd like to have a more accurate description than "default keyboard layout" since we're not sure that it defaults to US.
  71. # [02:45] <masayuki_> garykac: Yeah, but I don't know the answer of the last question, though.
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  73. # [02:46] <masayuki_> On Mac, "current ASCII capable keyboard layout" is the last selected ASCII capable keyboard layout.
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  75. # [02:47] <garykac> "last selected" - ick
  76. # [02:47] <Travis> Very interesting.
  77. # [02:47] <garykac> I doubt that's something that is consistent cross-platform
  78. # [02:47] <masayuki_> On Windows, we can just ignore Kana-Lock state for Japanese. I'm not sure about Korean and Chinese.
  79. # [02:48] <Travis> ...and when there is no previously selected ASCII capable keyboard layout, then there needs to be a fallback, right?
  80. # [02:49] <masayuki_> Travis: I guess that the first ASCII capable keyboard layout in the keyboard layout list is used.
  81. # [02:49] <garykac> I wonder what it would do if the "last seleced" keyboard layout didn't support the key being pressed (eg: last keyboard = US; key pressed = UK backslash)
  82. # [02:50] <garykac> (or the 'ro' key on a Japanese keyboard)
  83. # [02:50] <garykac> (ろ)
  84. # [02:51] <masayuki_> Good point. However, US keyboard layout on Mac is a special keyboard layout. It changes input character by physical keyboard type!
  85. # [02:52] <masayuki_> E.g., "Quote" key inputs : with JIS keyboard but ' with ANSI keyboard, :-(
  86. # [02:52] <masayuki_> Like that, "IntlRo" key inputs \.
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  88. # [02:53] <Travis> Gary and I are inclined to leave the current text there (it was our best effort given what we know) and are welcome to improve the text as new information comes available.
  89. # [02:54] <masayuki_> Anyway, if D3E spec defines keydown and keyup shouldn't be fired during composition, this issue may be WONTFIX.
  90. # [02:54] <Travis> It does matter during Ctrl/Meta key combinations though.
  91. # [02:54] <garykac> These key combinations will occur outside of composition sessions
  92. # [02:55] <Travis> Despite this, I'd still like to resolve the bug "fixed" for now.
  93. # [02:55] <garykac> I think that it's as Fixed as we're likely to get it in the near future.
  94. # [02:55] <garykac> If it is an issue, we can revisit in UI Events
  95. # [02:56] <masayuki_> We don't need to worry about Meta key. On Mac, during pressing Meta key causes ASCII capable keyboard's character is passed by NSEvent.
  96. # [02:56] <masayuki_> I.e., browsers should just honor the OS's event.
  97. # [02:56] <garykac> I'm hoping that in all these cases, the browser can simply return what the OS provides.
  98. # [02:57] <Travis> Yep, that would be great.
  99. # [02:57] <garykac> I don't want them to create goofy mapping tables to fix this problem.
  100. # [02:57] <Travis> (We just wanted to try and write that into the spec, but it baffled us a bit...)
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  102. # [02:58] <masayuki_> Pressing Ctrl key causes a control character code (< 0x20) on all OSes.
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  104. # [02:59] <Travis> Ctrl+[some character] uses the ASCII capable layout though--that's what we were comparing to Meta.
  105. # [03:00] <masayuki_> Travis: yes. I think that browsers should use same character as native application's shortcut key handling.
  106. # [03:00] <Travis> Agree.
  107. # [03:00] <garykac> sgtm
  108. # [03:00] <Travis> We are out of time
  109. # [03:01] <garykac> same time/place next week
  110. # [03:01] <Travis> Yep. Hopefully with only 1 or 2 bugs left!
  111. # [03:01] <Travis> Thanks all!
  112. # [03:01] <masayuki_> Even with Kana is locked on Windows, Ctrl + ASCII character shortcut work fine on Windows.
  113. # [03:01] <masayuki_> Thanks!
  114. # [03:01] <Zakim> -garykac
  115. # [03:01] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  116. # [03:01] <Zakim> RWC_WAPI(D3E)8:00PM has ended
  117. # [03:01] <Zakim> Attendees were [Microsoft], +1.425.936.aaaa, garykac
  118. # [03:02] <Travis> zakim, [Microsoft] is me
  119. # [03:02] <Zakim> sorry, Travis, I do not recognize a party named '[Microsoft]'
  120. # [03:02] <Travis> RRSAgent: please generate the mintues
  121. # [03:02] <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'please generate the mintues', Travis. Try /msg RRSAgent help
  122. # [03:02] <Travis> RRSAgent: please make the minutes
  123. # [03:02] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/14-webapps-minutes.html Travis
  124. # [03:03] <Travis> RRSAgent: make logs public
  125. # [03:03] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, Travis
  126. # [03:04] <Travis> RRSAgent: make the minutes
  127. # [03:04] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/14-webapps-minutes.html Travis
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  229. # [21:09] <ArtB> hey marcosc, when you get a chance, I'd like your feedback re http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2014AprJun/0445.html
  230. # [21:10] <marcosc> ArtB: sure
  231. # [21:11] <ArtB> thanks!
  232. # [21:11] <ArtB> I'll bug you in a week if you forget ;-)
  233. # [21:11] <marcosc> ArtB: I was about to reply when you sent it... but all I had was a +1
  234. # [21:11] <ArtB> ok; please do reply to the list
  235. # [21:11] <marcosc> I hate sending +1s, but ok
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The end :)