/irc-logs / w3c / #webapps / 2014-06-03 / end

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  90. # [15:56] <smaug> ArtB: do you know why http://www.w3.org/TR/file-system-api/ doesn't seem to have any content
  91. # [15:57] <smaug> well, it has "Abstract" and "Status of This Document"
  92. # [15:57] <darobin> smaug: "Work on this document has been discontinued and it should not be referenced or used as a basis for implementation."
  93. # [15:57] <ArtB> smaug, the group agreed to stop working on it, thus it was published as a NOTE
  94. # [15:57] <darobin> if you want content, go to the ED or the previous version
  95. # [15:57] <smaug> ArtB: sure
  96. # [15:57] <darobin> smaug: it's a tombstone
  97. # [15:57] <ArtB> what darobin said
  98. # [15:57] <smaug> oh, Notes don't have content these days?
  99. # [15:57] <ArtB> they can smaug
  100. # [15:58] <darobin> smaug: it deliberately has no content because its sole purpose is to indicate that there's nothing to see there
  101. # [15:58] <smaug> I see
  102. # [15:58] <ArtB> the reason we started gutting them is to make sure there was no technical differences between the ED and the last TR
  103. # [15:58] <ArtB> s/the reason/one reason/
  104. # [15:58] <smaug> ok, thanks
  105. # [15:58] <darobin> smaug: because what happens otherwise is that people go "Oooooh, wonderful! A Web Standard (from 1972) just for what I want!"
  106. # [15:59] <darobin> and they implement, or pester implementers, etc
  107. # [15:59] <smaug> (someone was just asking me about the status of file apis)
  108. # [15:59] <ArtB> yeah, we really don't want people to implement Notes
  109. # [15:59] * darobin would be happy if this were reinvigorated
  110. # [15:59] <ArtB> yes, I saw Arun replied
  111. # [15:59] <ArtB> I still have that in my Inbox
  112. # [15:59] <ArtB> I was going to reply with a link to the Mozilla proposal that is still active in WebApps
  113. # [16:00] * ArtB looks for URL ...
  114. # [16:00] <ArtB> http://w3c.github.io/filesystem-api/Overview.html
  115. # [16:00] <ArtB> ACTION: barstow add http://w3c.github.io/filesystem-api/Overview.html to PubStatus
  116. # [16:00] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
  117. # [16:00] * RRSAgent records action 1
  118. # [16:00] <trackbot> Created ACTION-730 - Add http://w3c.github.io/filesystem-api/overview.html to pubstatus [on Arthur Barstow - due 2014-06-10].
  119. # [16:01] * smaug gave that url to the person asking about the file apis
  120. # [16:03] <darobin> ArtB: I'm curious what your opinion is about the megamerge proposal
  121. # [16:04] <ArtB> smaug, will do
  122. # [16:07] <ArtB> darobin, I'd like to understand the `problem statement`
  123. # [16:07] <ArtB> IOW, if a merge is an `answer`, what exactly is the question?
  124. # [16:08] <darobin> ArtB: I can't claim to speak for the originator of the idea, but I can say why I like it
  125. # [16:09] <ArtB> please do
  126. # [16:09] <darobin> there's a lot of overlap in membership, and there's a move towards pretty much the same work style
  127. # [16:09] <darobin> the separation feels arbitrary
  128. # [16:09] <darobin> DOM in HTML, D3Ev in WA
  129. # [16:09] <darobin> HTML in HTML, innerHTML in WA
  130. # [16:09] <darobin> etc.
  131. # [16:09] <ArtB> but can you point to any specific problems that arise from the current structure?
  132. # [16:09] <darobin> I think the issues and solutions are the same
  133. # [16:09] <ArtB> is there some feedback or input that isn't being submitted?
  134. # [16:10] <darobin> well, people who aren't experts don't know where to look, whereas the new beast would be the whole of the core WP
  135. # [16:10] <darobin> there is, but that's an orthogonal issue
  136. # [16:10] <darobin> people are quite confused for instance with the editing stuff
  137. # [16:11] <darobin> Selection, Events are in WA, but the attribute and a bunch of other behaviours are in HTML; whereas the project clearly has some coordination unity
  138. # [16:11] <darobin> to the point where I'm really thinking "joint TF" for editing
  139. # [16:11] <darobin> (and I don't like joint TFs :)
  140. # [16:11] <Yves> and what about sysapps? ;)
  141. # [16:11] <darobin> Yves: *web* platform ;)
  142. # [16:11] <ArtB> I can think of some + and -
  143. # [16:11] <ArtB> would like to hear from others
  144. # [16:12] <ArtB> my recollection from being a `fly on the wall` for PSIG is that some Member abhor mega groups
  145. # [16:12] <darobin> yeah, but I want to leave that aside for now
  146. # [16:13] <darobin> IP issues exist, we can cross that bridge if we agree that doing this is a good idea in the first place
  147. # [16:13] <ArtB> but it turns out the only thing W3C has going for it is Patent Policy ;-)
  148. # [16:13] <darobin> if it's a bad idea, let's not trouble our pretty heads with lawyery stuff
  149. # [16:13] <darobin> heh
  150. # [16:13] <darobin> and its sexy chairs
  151. # [16:14] <ArtB> oh yeah, and that ;)
  152. # [16:14] <ArtB> are you going to be at the AC meeting next week darobin?
  153. # [16:14] <darobin> nope
  154. # [16:14] <ArtB> oh, bummer
  155. # [16:14] <ArtB> I think Sam is going to raise the topic
  156. # [16:14] <darobin> I'm trying not to travel more than strictly necessary
  157. # [16:14] <darobin> yes, he is
  158. # [16:14] <Yves> to paraphrase Peter's principle "a successful WG will get to do more and more work to the point it will become ineffective"
  159. # [16:15] <darobin> ArtB: it would simplify bringing CC to WebApps, too
  160. # [16:16] <ArtB> I suspect the CC shipped has sailed given the precedence but that's a bit of a hunch
  161. # [16:16] <darobin> I'm assuming that that WG would have the momentum to rewrite pretty much any part of the Process :)
  162. # [16:16] <ArtB> WorkMode trumps ProcDoc; the anarchist side of me kinda' likes that
  163. # [16:16] <darobin> well, that's not actually true, but it's cool to act like it does :)
  164. # [16:17] <ArtB> s/WebAppsWG/LordOfTheFliesWG/
  165. # [16:17] <darobin> what with two chairs on the AB and all
  166. # [16:17] <darobin> the Consortium within the Consortium
  167. # [16:18] <darobin> the shadow behind the Director's Throne
  168. # [16:18] <ArtB> hey, cwilso is a WebApps member too
  169. # [16:18] <darobin> yeah, so is Tantek IIRC
  170. # [16:18] <darobin> plus most of the TAG
  171. # [16:19] <darobin> it's, like, the only other WG is the CSS WG — and who cares about a bunch of sissies making pretty colours for shit?
  172. # [16:20] <Yves> don't be harsh to them or they'll ask you to remove js support in your browser
  173. # [16:20] <darobin> hey, look, it's ArtB: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Palpatine1.jpg
  174. # [16:20] <darobin> Yves: lol
  175. # [16:25] <ArtB> All - can anyone Scribe today's Web Component's call (starts in ~1.5 hours; 12:00 Boston time)?
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  190. # [17:57] <dglazkov> yay Web Components call!
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  192. # [17:58] <dglazkov> no zakim?
  193. # [17:58] <smaug> oh oh, /me kicks himself for not writing certain algorithm during his vacation. Hopefully after processing the endless review queue...
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  195. # [17:58] <dglazkov> Zakim, dude, where are you
  196. # [17:59] <dglazkov> well bleep
  197. # [18:02] <dglazkov> no rssagent either
  198. # [18:03] * Joins: Zakim (zakim@public.cloak)
  199. # [18:03] <MikeSmith> trackbot, start meeting
  200. # [18:03] * trackbot is preparing a teleconference.
  201. # [18:03] <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
  202. # [18:03] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, trackbot
  203. # [18:03] <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DOM3
  204. # [18:03] <trackbot> Meeting: Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
  205. # [18:03] <trackbot> Date: 03 June 2014
  206. # [18:03] <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
  207. # [18:04] <MikeSmith> zakim, list
  208. # [18:04] <Zakim> I see SW_HCLS()11:00AM, WAI_WCAG()11:00AM, T&S_DNTC()12:00PM, HTML_WG()11:00AM, Team_(wai)18:03Z, Team_(ua)17:00Z, XML_ET-TF()11:00AM, RWC_WAPI()12:00PM, WAI_PFWG(HTML_TF)1:00PM,
  209. # [18:04] <Zakim> ... Team_W3M()8:00AM active
  210. # [18:04] <Zakim> also scheduled at this time is RWC_PEWG()11:00AM
  211. # [18:04] <ArtB> zakim, this is RWC_WAPI
  212. # [18:04] <Zakim> ok, ArtB; that matches RWC_WAPI()12:00PM
  213. # [18:04] <dglazkov> yay
  214. # [18:05] <ArtB> zakim, who's here?
  215. # [18:05] <Zakim> On the phone I see [Google]
  216. # [18:05] <Zakim> On IRC I see lmclister, lgombos, skddc, ed, rubys, chaals, ArtB, smaug, darobin, BenjamP1, karl, stryx`, heycam|away, kochi1, kochi, mounir, logbot, paul___irish, terri, RRSAgent,
  217. # [18:05] <Zakim> ... Hixie, krijnhoetmer, shepazu, kentaromiura, dcooney_, schuki, timeless_, hayato_, dfreedm__, scheib___, slightlyoff, cwilso, FerasM_, astearns, tobie_, dglazkov, jsbell,
  218. # [18:05] <Zakim> ... cabanier, Domenic, gavin_, esprehn, pdr, MikeSmith, tyoshino, krit, gsnedders, trackbot, Yves, decadance, jgraham
  219. # [18:05] <dglazkov> Zakim, [Google] is dglazkov
  220. # [18:05] <Zakim> +dglazkov; got it
  221. # [18:07] <dglazkov> Anyone wants to chat about theming?
  222. # [18:07] <dglazkov> :)
  223. # [18:07] <dglazkov> The problem as I understand it:
  224. # [18:08] <dglazkov> 1) there is a need for an indirection mechanism between the shadow tree and the outside environment (main document, for example)
  225. # [18:08] <dglazkov> 2) to enable developers inside shadow trees to opt into some future styling
  226. # [18:09] <dglazkov> 3) and enable developers outside shadow trees to supply this styling
  227. # [18:09] <dglazkov> there are several primitives we tried or have currently
  228. # [18:09] <dglazkov> a) CSS custom properties (artists formerly known as CSS Variables)
  229. # [18:10] <hayato_> I can only chat. :)
  230. # [18:10] <dglazkov> b) ::part (see some early conclusions here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2013JulSep/0454.html)
  231. # [18:10] <dglazkov> c) /deep/ selector
  232. # [18:11] * dglazkov wonders what hayato_ is doing up so late!!!
  233. # [18:11] <dglazkov> s/selector/combinator
  234. # [18:13] <dglazkov> another possible primitive is the ability to add stylesheets directly to ShadowRoot.stylesheets collection. Although not directly a theming primitive, it would allow authors of frameworks to build the indirection plumbing by selectively adding stylesheets to shadow trees that need theming.
  235. # [18:14] <dglazkov> there are limitations and problems with every one of these. I should probably write this down as a list.
  236. # [18:15] <dglazkov> let me start with that. hayato_ and I will work on this and send to public-webapps
  237. # [18:15] * dglazkov is mostly talking to himself and isn't ashamed to admit it
  238. # [18:15] <dglazkov> hayato_: what do you think about moving this meeting to a TOK-friendly time
  239. # [18:15] <dglazkov> at least then I'll have more peeps joining :)
  240. # [18:17] <hayato_> dglazkov: Yes as long as most people can join.
  241. # [18:18] <dglazkov> let's try it. I'll post to public-webapps and check with ArtB
  242. # [18:18] <dglazkov> okay, looks like we solved ALL The problems!
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  245. # [18:20] <hayato_> It's a piece of cake.
  246. # [18:20] <Zakim> +dael
  247. # [18:21] <dglazkov> yay dael!
  248. # [18:21] <Zakim> -dael
  249. # [18:21] * dglazkov is calling it. Stick a fork in this meeting
  250. # [18:22] <dael> Hi and bye!
  251. # [18:22] <dglazkov> :)
  252. # [18:22] <dglazkov> trackbot: please make the minutes
  253. # [18:22] <trackbot> Sorry, dglazkov, I don't understand 'trackbot: please make the minutes'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
  254. # [18:22] <hayato_> let me have a SIP client by the next meeting
  255. # [18:22] <dglazkov> RRSAgent: please make the minutes!
  256. # [18:22] <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'please make the minutes!', dglazkov. Try /msg RRSAgent help
  257. # [18:22] <dglazkov> LOL
  258. # [18:22] * Parts: dael (~dael@public.cloak)
  259. # [18:23] <dglazkov> trackbot, end meeting
  260. # [18:23] * trackbot is ending a teleconference.
  261. # [18:23] <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
  262. # [18:23] <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been dglazkov, dael
  263. # [18:23] <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
  264. # [18:23] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/27-webapps-minutes.html trackbot
  265. # [18:23] <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
  266. # [18:23] <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/06/03-webapps-actions.rdf :
  267. # [18:23] <RRSAgent> ACTION: barstow add http://w3c.github.io/filesystem-api/Overview.html to PubStatus [1]
  268. # [18:23] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/27-webapps-irc#T14-00-49
  269. # [18:23] * Parts: RRSAgent (rrsagent@public.cloak) (RRSAgent)
  270. # [18:23] <dglazkov> I AM AWESOME!
  271. # [18:24] <dglazkov> wait, did that make it into meetings?
  272. # [18:24] <dglazkov> minutes
  273. # [18:24] <Zakim> -dglazkov
  274. # [18:24] <Zakim> RWC_WAPI()12:00PM has ended
  275. # [18:24] <Zakim> Attendees were dglazkov, dael
  276. # [18:47] * Quits: skddc (~anonymous@public.cloak) (skddc)
  277. # [18:47] * Joins: richt (~richt@public.cloak)
  278. # [18:52] * Quits: richt (~richt@public.cloak) ("Leaving...")
  279. # [19:27] * Joins: dom (dom@public.cloak)
  280. # [19:41] * Quits: dom (dom@public.cloak) ("")
  281. # [19:52] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@public.cloak)
  282. # [19:56] * Joins: skddc (~anonymous@public.cloak)
  283. # [20:23] <ArtB> zakim, bye
  284. # [20:23] * Parts: Zakim (zakim@public.cloak) (Zakim)
  285. # [20:25] <dglazkov> DOM3 minutes got bundled together with our minutes!
  286. # [20:37] * Quits: skddc (~anonymous@public.cloak) (skddc)
  287. # [20:37] * Joins: skddc (~anonymous@public.cloak)
  288. # [20:39] * Quits: ArtB (~abarsto@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
  289. # [20:39] * Quits: skddc (~anonymous@public.cloak) (skddc)
  290. # [21:31] * Joins: abarsto (~abarsto@public.cloak)
  291. # [21:31] * abarsto is now known as ArtB
  292. # [21:45] * Joins: rniwa (~rniwa@public.cloak)
  293. # [22:31] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@public.cloak)
  294. # [23:27] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@public.cloak) ("")
  295. # [23:28] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@public.cloak)
  296. # Session Close: Wed Jun 04 00:00:00 2014

The end :)