/irc-logs / w3c / #webapps / 2014-06-04 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Jun 04 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #webapps
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  23. # [02:01] <Travis> Zakim, this is D3E
  24. # [02:01] <Zakim> Travis, I see RWC_WAPI(D3E)8:00PM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be D3E".
  25. # [02:02] <Travis> Zakim, this will be D3E
  26. # [02:02] <Zakim> ok, Travis; I see RWC_WAPI(D3E)8:00PM scheduled to start now
  27. # [02:02] * Joins: RRSAgent (rrsagent@public.cloak)
  28. # [02:02] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/06/04-webapps-irc
  29. # [02:02] <Travis> RRSAgent, this meeting spans midnight
  30. # [02:02] <RRSAgent> ok, Travis; I will not start a new log at midnight
  31. # [02:02] <Travis> Hi folks.
  32. # [02:02] <masayuki> Hi
  33. # [02:03] <Zakim> RWC_WAPI(D3E)8:00PM has now started
  34. # [02:03] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  35. # [02:03] <Travis> Zakim, [Microsoft] is me
  36. # [02:03] <Zakim> +Travis; got it
  37. # [02:03] <Travis> Present+ Travis
  38. # [02:03] <Travis> Present+ masayuki
  39. # [02:03] * Travis will call Gary and remind him of the call...
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  41. # [02:06] * Travis called Gary... no answer. Probably busy fixing the spec and didn't notice the time :)
  42. # [02:07] <Zakim> + +1.425.936.aaaa
  43. # [02:07] <Travis> Zakim, 1.425 is garykac
  44. # [02:07] <Zakim> sorry, Travis, I do not recognize a party named '1.425'
  45. # [02:07] <Travis> Zakim, +1.425 is garykac
  46. # [02:07] <Zakim> +garykac; got it
  47. # [02:07] <Travis> Present+ garykac
  48. # [02:07] * Joins: garykac (~garykac@public.cloak)
  49. # [02:16] <Travis> Hey folks, welcome to the call.
  50. # [02:16] <garykac> There are 6 bugs remaining.
  51. # [02:16] <garykac> Masayuki: I fixed the 2 remaining key and code bugs.
  52. # [02:17] <garykac> I don't think there's anything surprising there, but let me know if you have any issues or questions.
  53. # [02:17] <garykac> We are planning on releasing the FPWD 'code' and 'key' specs next Thursday (the 12th).
  54. # [02:18] <garykac> The we can update the main spec to refer to them.
  55. # [02:18] <Travis> Gary and I were just chatting about how we are trying to balance the need to "finish" for the sake of the HTML5 normative references, and the need to "get it right" by addressing some of the questions that Anne and co. had in recent emails.
  56. # [02:18] <Travis> It seems apparent that we need to work on getting the spec right.
  57. # [02:18] <Travis> This is going to mean a delay.
  58. # [02:19] <Travis> We've also been working at a feverish level toward the end-game which just moved out on us a bit. It's not a very sustainable level of investment, so from that point of view things are going to go a bit slower anyway
  59. # [02:19] <masayuki> Thanks, I checked the diff of the fixes.
  60. # [02:19] <masayuki> Looks okay to me.
  61. # [02:20] <Travis> I will need to sync up with the HTML co-chairs and ask about the impact of a potential delay. I think it will be OK, but I'd like to be sure.
  62. # [02:20] <masayuki> I'll check them again later.
  63. # [02:20] <Travis> So the bugs are:
  64. # [02:21] <Travis> * clarify beforeinput firing
  65. # [02:21] <Travis> * Clarify "default action"
  66. # [02:21] <Travis> * Align with DOM4
  67. # [02:21] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@public.cloak) (sicking)
  68. # [02:22] <Travis> * (unsafe to dispatch might go away)
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  70. # [02:22] <Travis> * Specify event loop and hit testing behavior
  71. # [02:22] <Travis> * Converge CSS-OM view
  72. # [02:23] <Travis> I think we have general agreement on the direction of beforeinput
  73. # [02:23] <masayuki> I think that I should file a new bug for virtual keyboard's code value.
  74. # [02:23] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@public.cloak) (sicking)
  75. # [02:23] <masayuki> But it must be not so difficult issue.
  76. # [02:24] <Travis> Please do! We love bugs...
  77. # [02:25] * Joins: skddc (~anonymous@public.cloak)
  78. # [02:31] <garykac> Masayuki: did you have concerns in particular that you wanted to discuss?
  79. # [02:31] <garykac> We're going to take the next few weeks and try to clean up the text and bring it up to modern standards.
  80. # [02:31] <Travis> I'm going to take some vacation time around June 19th for two weeks.
  81. # [02:32] <masayuki> garykac: Yeah, I have one.
  82. # [02:32] <masayuki> About KeyboardEvent.code value of printable keys.
  83. # [02:33] <masayuki> If a VKB doesn't emulate native physical key event completely, there are 2 patterns:
  84. # [02:34] <masayuki> One is there is an API to compute scancode from virtual keycode. This is Windows' case. At this time, browsers can use the API and compute .code value from the result.
  85. # [02:35] <Travis> I filed a bug for us to start investigating tests: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25967
  86. # [02:36] <masayuki> The other is, the is not such API. E.g., Android. At this time, browsers can guess non-printable keys and some printable keys which can guess the key position from virtual keycode name. E.g., it has NUMPAD or something.
  87. # [02:36] <garykac> I don't expect all VKBs to provide useful 'code' values for every key.
  88. # [02:36] <garykac> They should if they want to emulate a physical keyboard, but not all VKBs care about that.
  89. # [02:37] <masayuki> In the latter case, browsers should NOT set .code values for printable keys which must be in standard position because VK -> SC depends on keyboard layout.
  90. # [02:39] <masayuki> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/dom3events/raw-file/tip/html/DOM3-Events.html#code-virtual-keyboards
  91. # [02:39] * Quits: karl (~karlcow@public.cloak) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  92. # [02:39] <garykac> VKBs that emulate a physical keyboard should be emulating a particular layout as well - so they should know what positions to use.
  93. # [02:39] <masayuki> This looks like that D3E spec recommends that browsers should guess the key position even in such case.
  94. # [02:40] <garykac> So I would expect a virtual french keyboard (with standard layout) to use 'KeyA' for the key labeled 'q'.
  95. # [02:41] <garykac> If they completely change the layout for the VKB, then the 'code' doesn't have much use.
  96. # [02:41] <masayuki> I'd like you to document about the latter case in the spec even if the VKB looks like emulating physical keyboard but not generating scancode properly.
  97. # [02:42] * Joins: karl (~karlcow@public.cloak)
  98. # [02:44] <garykac> Are you referring to 6.2.4 "code and virtual keyboards"
  99. # [02:44] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@public.cloak) ("")
  100. # [02:44] <masayuki> I filed a bug with this log https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25968
  101. # [02:44] * Quits: smaug (~chatzilla@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  102. # [02:45] <masayuki> garykac: yes.
  103. # [02:45] * Quits: karl (~karlcow@public.cloak) (":tiuQ tiuq sah woclrak")
  104. # [02:46] <garykac> That section says that the browser MAY set it to the closest match or it MAY leave it undefined.
  105. # [02:46] <masayuki> I think that the document is not clear and makes web developers misunderstand.
  106. # [02:46] <Travis> Folks, do you mind if I end the telco a bit early?
  107. # [02:47] <garykac> We should probably make it more specific. I'd be happy with stating that it should be left undefined unless you're trying to emulate a physical keyboard.
  108. # [02:47] <garykac> travis: no problem.
  109. # [02:47] <Travis> Will other folks be around next week?
  110. # [02:47] <garykac> I'll be around. Next week, we're preparing the FCWD or key and code.
  111. # [02:48] <garykac> The week after that is the last one Travis is around before he heads out on vacation.
  112. # [02:48] <Travis> It will be great to have those docs published.
  113. # [02:48] <masayuki> Yeah, I'm available too.
  114. # [02:48] <Travis> Super.
  115. # [02:48] <garykac> We should probably meet those 2 weeks and then take a break while Travis is out.
  116. # [02:49] <Travis> Works for me.
  117. # [02:49] <Travis> Thanks again everyone!
  118. # [02:49] <masayuki> Thank you, Travis.
  119. # [02:49] <Zakim> -Travis
  120. # [02:49] <Zakim> -garykac
  121. # [02:49] <Zakim> RWC_WAPI(D3E)8:00PM has ended
  122. # [02:49] <Zakim> Attendees were Travis, +1.425.936.aaaa, garykac
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  124. # [02:49] <Travis> RRSAgent, please make the minutes
  125. # [02:49] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/04-webapps-minutes.html Travis
  126. # [02:49] <Travis> RRSAgent, make logs public
  127. # [02:49] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, Travis
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  129. # [02:57] <Travis> Zakim, bye
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  131. # [02:58] <Travis> RRSAgent, bye
  132. # [02:58] <RRSAgent> I see no action items
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The end :)