/irc-logs / w3c / #webapps / 2015-01-28 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Jan 28 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #webapps
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  32. # [01:59] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/01/28-webapps-irc
  33. # [02:00] <Travis> RRSAgent: this meeting spans midnight
  34. # [02:00] <RRSAgent> ok, Travis; I will not start a new log at midnight
  35. # [02:00] <Travis> Zakim, who is on the phone
  36. # [02:00] <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', Travis
  37. # [02:00] <Travis> Zakim, this is D3E
  38. # [02:00] <Zakim> ok, Travis; that matches RWC_WAPI(D3E)8:00PM
  39. # [02:00] <Travis> Zakim, who is on the phone
  40. # [02:00] <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', Travis
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  42. # [02:00] <masayuki> Travis: Hi
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  44. # [02:01] <Zakim> +??P1
  45. # [02:02] <masayuki> garykac: Hi,
  46. # [02:02] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@public.cloak)
  47. # [02:02] <garykac> masayuki: Hello
  48. # [02:03] <garykac> Travis is having trouble with IRC. He's working on a fix right now.
  49. # [02:04] <masayuki> Oh, I see.
  50. # [02:04] * Joins: Travis_ (~Travis@public.cloak)
  51. # [02:05] * Travis_ is back.
  52. # [02:05] <Travis_> We have a few things to follow up on from last meeting.
  53. # [02:05] <Travis_> Spec name change is one
  54. # [02:06] * Quits: smaug (~chatzilla@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  55. # [02:06] <Travis_> 3 bugs from Masayuki blocking Gecko progress
  56. # [02:06] <Travis_> Removal of beforeinput and friends from the spec
  57. # [02:06] <garykac> And renaming and moving the spec.
  58. # [02:06] <garykac> Oops! I see that was already mentioned
  59. # [02:07] <Travis_> Topic: Spec name change
  60. # [02:07] <Travis_> garykac: Not done yet.
  61. # [02:07] <Travis_> ... will do next.
  62. # [02:07] * Quits: Travis (~Travis@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  63. # [02:07] <Travis_> ... hesitated since there are redirects to old one, etc.
  64. # [02:07] <Travis_> ... renaming and moving to new URL?
  65. # [02:07] <Travis_> ... can't remember the details.
  66. # [02:08] <Travis_> ... Are we going to move it to D4E?
  67. # [02:08] <Travis_> ... [and other questions]
  68. # [02:08] <Travis_> So, latest TR published is here: http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-3-Events/
  69. # [02:09] <Travis_> So, the shortname is "DOM-Level-3-Events"
  70. # [02:09] <Travis_> Editor's draft is here: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/dom3events/raw-file/tip/html/DOM3-Events.html
  71. # [02:09] <Travis_> So, under HG's "dom3events" folder.
  72. # [02:10] <garykac> Basically, we need to agree on the exact order that we do things in.
  73. # [02:10] <Travis_> One thing we should do is re-publish the current spec with a re-direct to it's new home
  74. # [02:10] <Travis_> So, unordered list first :)
  75. # [02:10] <Travis_> * Modifiy Editor's draft to change name
  76. # [02:11] <Travis_> * Copy editor's draft new location
  77. # [02:11] <garykac> * Decide where the editor's draft should live: the current D3E, current UIE, or a new place
  78. # [02:11] <Travis_> * Change current published doc's "editor's draft" link to point to new location.
  79. # [02:12] <Travis_> * Publish new draft in TR with new name and valid links
  80. # [02:12] <Travis_> * Update bug database component name?
  81. # [02:13] <garykac> I'm going to dig up the email where this was last discussed to remind myself what it says...
  82. # [02:14] <garykac> Philip suggested publishing an updated version (new name) and having *both* shortnames point to it.
  83. # [02:15] <Travis_> OK, well, first step is probably "modify editor's draft" so that we can do that :-)
  84. # [02:15] <Travis_> As for location, where do we put the editor's draft?
  85. # [02:16] <garykac> We need to make sure that both ED links point to the correct editor's draft
  86. # [02:17] <garykac> I think it makes sense to keep using the dom3events location
  87. # [02:17] <Travis_> I don't mind the mercurial path staying D3E (vesus a new location or D4E)
  88. # [02:17] <garykac> OK. so that means that we rename dom3events in-place
  89. # [02:17] <Travis_> So, scrap the "Copy editor's draft to new location"
  90. # [02:18] <Travis_> garykac: New shortname?
  91. # [02:18] <Travis_> ... nope, it'll be UIEvents
  92. # [02:20] <Travis_> Do you want to change the name of the file in mercurial?
  93. # [02:21] <garykac> I don't think it's necessary, but we can do that later if we need to.
  94. # [02:21] <Travis_> garykac: I would avoid doing that now--we can always do it later.
  95. # [02:21] <Travis_> Topic: beforeinput removal
  96. # [02:21] <garykac> Next topic
  97. # [02:21] <garykac> I removed beforeinput and input from the spec.
  98. # [02:22] <garykac> But we still have a few links that need to be updated
  99. # [02:22] <garykac> But I don't have a real spec to link them to.
  100. # [02:22] <garykac> This makes me sad
  101. # [02:23] <garykac> I'm waiting until we have a real link before fixing them - I'm assuming that we can get the links soon.
  102. # [02:23] <garykac> Ben's unofficial spec is at: http://w3c.github.io/editing-explainer/input-events.html
  103. # [02:24] <Travis_> http://w3c.github.io/selection-api/
  104. # [02:24] <masayuki> Where the input spec go to? .isComposing is important and useful. So, it should be defined by somebody.
  105. # [02:24] <Travis_> Oh, I don't think my link was right...
  106. # [02:25] <masayuki> Oh, I see, bad timing...
  107. # [02:25] <garykac> The link I sent is an "unofficial draft", so I'd like to see a more semi-official draft before fixing up all the links.
  108. # [02:25] <garykac> masayuki: isComposing is part of the input spec
  109. # [02:26] <garykac> They took their initial draft from the work we did
  110. # [02:26] <masayuki> garykac: Yeah, thanks, I confirmed.
  111. # [02:26] <Travis_> Topic: 3 bugs for masayuki
  112. # [02:27] <Travis_> (a new children's story)
  113. # [02:27] <Travis_> j/k
  114. # [02:28] <Travis_> bug 24739, 26019 and 26218
  115. # [02:30] <masayuki> I updated bug 26218 now.
  116. # [02:30] <Travis_> ... [familiarizing ourselves with the bugs again]
  117. # [02:31] <masayuki> Our Linux's module owner, karlt, doesn't like adding "Super" and "Hyper" to the modifier key, but I like them.
  118. # [02:31] <garykac> So, for 24739
  119. # [02:32] <garykac> Which keys are missing to support the Sun keyboard?
  120. # [02:32] <garykac> Props is there...
  121. # [02:32] <masayuki> garykac: its label is "Props".
  122. # [02:33] <masayuki> USB keycode indicates "Menu".
  123. # [02:33] <garykac> vs. ContextMenu
  124. # [02:33] <garykac> So, do we need Menu and ContextMenu (with Props mapping to Menu)?
  125. # [02:33] <masayuki> But it's different from "ContextMenu" and Sun's keyboard also has "ContextMenu" key. Therefore, we should provide different name for "Props".
  126. # [02:34] <masayuki> It will provide a way to distinguish the keys.
  127. # [02:35] <garykac> Sun has ContextMenu and Props. But if Props -> Menu, isn't that sufficient.
  128. # [02:35] <masayuki> I guess "Props" is a good name? "Menu" sounds like not good.
  129. # [02:35] <garykac> This assumes that we add Menu (in a way that clearly distinguishes it from ContextMenu)
  130. # [02:36] <garykac> masayuki: Yeah. "Menu" sounds to generic and will be probably be mis-used.
  131. # [02:36] <garykac> ContextMenu and Props are what we currently have in the spec.
  132. # [02:36] <masayuki> garykac: Yeah, it must be mis-used.
  133. # [02:37] <masayuki> Oh, you added "Props" already?
  134. # [02:37] <masayuki> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/dom3events/raw-file/tip/html/DOM3Events-code.html#code-Props
  135. # [02:37] <garykac> So, it sounds like the current spec has the definitions is needs? Is there anything else that has to happen for this bug?
  136. # [02:38] <masayuki> garykac: just close it ;-)
  137. # [02:38] <garykac> masayuki: yes, 'props' is in the legacy section and has a bunch of other Sun keys
  138. # [02:38] <garykac> Yay!
  139. # [02:40] <Travis_> On to bug 26019
  140. # [02:40] <garykac> OK, 26019... (reading bug)
  141. # [02:40] <masayuki> I also filed https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=27902 and https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=27903
  142. # [02:41] <masayuki> Olli, our DOM event module owner, doesn't like the dictionary name and attribute names.
  143. # [02:43] <garykac> I hadn't seen those names before. Perhaps UIEventModifierInit
  144. # [02:44] <Travis_> Ah, I recall the issue with 26019.
  145. # [02:44] <Travis_> In DOM4, the way to process an event initializer is laid out: https://dom.spec.whatwg.org/#constructing-events
  146. # [02:44] <Travis_> Step 4 basically maps names onto properties.
  147. # [02:45] <Travis_> However, for these modifier key states, there's no corresponding attribute name on the event object.
  148. # [02:45] <Travis_> So, I needed to define how to do this in the UIEvents/D3E spec.
  149. # [02:46] <Travis_> (It's just some simple prose that describes the mapping.)
  150. # [02:47] <Travis_> I can take 26019. It's a relatively small change.
  151. # [02:47] <Travis_> Related to the bug 27903, garykac and I don't have a strong reason not to change the names.
  152. # [02:48] <garykac> travis: and 27092 and 27903 seem related to 26019 (naming suggestions)_
  153. # [02:48] * terri is now known as terri_offline
  154. # [02:48] <Travis_> (double negatives!)
  155. # [02:48] <Travis_> Now, 26218.
  156. # [02:51] <masayuki> Using "Super" and "Hyper" and adding "SystemAccel" is my best idea. But comment 5 and comment 6 disagree with the approach.
  157. # [02:53] <masayuki> He said "similar to 'OS'". But "similar" must cause incompatibility between browsers at mapping them...
  158. # [02:59] <Travis_> garykac and I are musing about how Mac is unique... :)
  159. # [03:00] <Travis_> We already have "Accel" which covers the Ctrl (windows), Meta (mac), and Super (linux)
  160. # [03:00] <Travis_> garykac will now scribe what he thinks.
  161. # [03:01] <masayuki> Travis_: no, Accel on Linux should be Control
  162. # [03:01] <garykac> I was originally thinking that the 'OS' key would catch the Windows key and the Mac Command key, but that it not the case. (Mac Command -> Meta)
  163. # [03:02] <garykac> Given that, it would be very nice to have a single key that captures Win and Command. SystemAccel fits that purpose.
  164. # [03:03] <masayuki> My suggestion is, SystemAccel should be OS on Windows and Super/Hyper on Linux. Not existing on Mac.
  165. # [03:03] <masayuki> Because Command is used for shortcut key. It should be Accel.
  166. # [03:03] <garykac> For the Mac, I think that the Command key should be in both Accel and SystemAccel.
  167. # [03:04] <garykac> It we want people to adopt SystemAccel as the platform neutral way of getting system accel keys, then it needs to work on all platforms.
  168. # [03:05] <garykac> So, I will add the SystemAccel definition to the spec based on the discussion we had back in July.
  169. # [03:05] <masayuki> I'm not use Mac usually. Does Command key is also used for system's shortcut key?
  170. # [03:05] <garykac> And I think we're out of time
  171. # [03:06] <garykac> masayuki: yes. e.g., Cmd-Tab to switch apps
  172. # [03:06] <Travis_> So, we should meet again in two weeks?
  173. # [03:07] <garykac> The Command key is the main shortcut key for app and system shortcuts
  174. # [03:07] <garykac> two weeks sounds good.
  175. # [03:07] <masayuki> garykac: Cmd-Tab example is conflict with Alt-Tab on Windows, though. But if it's so, I don't disagree with mapping Command key as SystemAccel.
  176. # [03:07] <masayuki> I'm okay two weeks.
  177. # [03:07] <Travis_> Fantastic. Thanks everyone!
  178. # [03:07] <Travis_> Is this a wrap?
  179. # [03:07] <masayuki> Thank you!
  180. # [03:08] <garykac> masayuki:
  181. # [03:08] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  182. # [03:08] <Zakim> -??P1
  183. # [03:08] <Zakim> RWC_WAPI(D3E)8:00PM has ended
  184. # [03:08] <Zakim> Attendees were [Microsoft]
  185. # [03:08] <Travis_> RRSAgent: make the minutes
  186. # [03:08] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/28-webapps-minutes.html Travis_
  187. # [03:09] <Travis_> RRSAgent: make logs public
  188. # [03:09] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, Travis_
  189. # [03:09] <garykac> oops! never mind. See you in 2 weeks.
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  191. # [03:09] <masayuki> garykac: Okay, see you!
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