/irc-logs / w3c / #webapps / 2015-06-10 / end

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# Session Start: Wed Jun 10 00:00:00 2015
# Session Ident: #webapps
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# [02:00] <Travis> zakim, this will be #dom3
# [02:00] * Joins: Zakim (zakim@public.cloak)
# [02:00] <Travis> zakim, this will be #dom3
# [02:00] <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, Travis
# [02:00] <Travis> zakim, this is #dom3
# [02:00] <Zakim> sorry, Travis, I do not see a conference named '#dom3' in progress or scheduled at this time
# [02:00] <Travis> zakim, this is dom3
# [02:00] <Zakim> ok, Travis; that matches RWC_WAPI()8:00PM
# [02:01] * Joins: RRSAgent (rrsagent@public.cloak)
# [02:01] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/06/10-webapps-irc
# [02:01] <Travis> RRSAgent, this meeting spans midnight
# [02:01] <RRSAgent> ok, Travis; I will not start a new log at midnight
# [02:01] <Travis> zakim, who is on the phone?
# [02:01] <Zakim> On the phone I see [Microsoft]
# [02:01] <Travis> zakim, [Microsoft] is me
# [02:01] <Zakim> +Travis; got it
# [02:01] <Travis> Present+ Travis_Leithead
# [02:02] <Travis> Topic: UI Events teleconference
# [02:02] <masayuki> Travis: Hello.
# [02:02] <Travis> Hi! Welcome. Glad you got the right time.
# [02:02] <Travis> Calling in?
# [02:04] <Zakim> + +1.425.936.aaaa
# [02:05] * Joins: garykac (~garykac@public.cloak)
# [02:05] <Travis> zakim, +1.425 is garykac
# [02:05] <Zakim> +garykac; got it
# [02:05] <Travis> Present+ garykac
# [02:05] <Travis> Present+ masayuki
# [02:05] <Travis> Agenda building time?
# [02:06] <Travis> a+ Time to talk about the bug
# [02:06] <Travis> agenda+ Time to talk about the bug
# [02:06] * Zakim notes agendum 1 added
# [02:06] <garykac> We're in a new repo now
# [02:06] <Travis> agenda+ working in githum?
# [02:06] * Zakim notes agendum 2 added
# [02:06] <garykac> which means that I have to set that up...
# [02:06] <garykac> :-(
# [02:07] <Travis> agenda+ "issues" vs. "bugs"
# [02:07] * Zakim notes agendum 3 added
# [02:08] <Travis> agenda+ schedule for next milestone?
# [02:08] * Zakim notes agendum 4 added
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# [02:10] <Travis> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=UI%20Events&product=WebAppsWG&;resolution=---
# [02:10] <Travis> agenda?
# [02:10] * Zakim sees 4 items remaining on the agenda:
# [02:10] * Zakim 1. Time to talk about the bug [from Travis]
# [02:10] * Zakim 2. working in githum? [from Travis]
# [02:10] * Zakim 3. "issues" vs. "bugs" [from Travis]
# [02:10] * Zakim 4. schedule for next milestone? [from Travis]
# [02:10] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak) (tantek)
# [02:11] <Travis> zakim, drop agenda item 2
# [02:11] <Zakim> I don't understand 'drop agenda item 2', Travis
# [02:12] <Travis> The spec is now here: https://w3c.github.io/uievents/
# [02:12] <Travis> Repo is here: https://github.com/w3c/uievents
# [02:12] <Travis> Two issues: https://github.com/w3c/uievents/issues
# [02:14] <Travis> ... (looking things over)
# [02:14] <Travis> agenda-
# [02:16] <Travis> agenda- 1
# [02:16] * Zakim notes agendum 1, Time to talk about the bug, dropped
# [02:16] <Travis> Are there any high-priority bugs to address first?
# [02:16] <Travis> ... e.g., can we prioritize our list?
# [02:17] <masayuki> In my work, https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21120 and https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26218 are important.
# [02:18] <masayuki> But it's okay not today because I work on others right now.
# [02:19] <Travis> masayuki: super.
# [02:19] <masayuki> I hope that you guys check them when you have much time ;-)
# [02:22] <garykac> Did either of you see the InputDevice API "sketch" proposal that was sent out? https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2015JanMar/0102.html
# [02:23] <garykac> This is relevant to some discussions that we've had regarding the keyboard layout and current locale.
# [02:23] <garykac> If that proposal gains traction, it seems like the most appropriate place for that sort of info.
# [02:25] <Travis> I didn't.
# [02:25] <Travis> ... In looking at this, seems interesting.
# [02:26] <garykac> masayuki: we're trying to get back into it... it's been a while...
# [02:27] <Travis> I'm thinking of asking us to do something crazy...
# [02:27] <Travis> ... how about we stop focusing on editing the spec...
# [02:27] <Travis> ... and instead start focusing on writing the tests that we'll need.
# [02:29] <garykac> I agree.
# [02:29] <garykac> The parts in the spec that we need to work on fall into two main categories:
# [02:29] <Travis> ... It will help us inform the final content of the spec anyway...
# [02:29] <garykac> (1) easy bugs (like assigning a name to a special key)
# [02:30] <garykac> (2) re-write bugs - as in please specify the interactions in more detail
# [02:30] <garykac> #2 will require that we write tests as we document the current interactions.
# [02:31] <garykac> Anything that we document will prompt the question: do the current browsers agree with the description. To answer this, we'll need these tests.
# [02:31] <Travis> Those interactions have changed a little in Microsoft's new browser. Hopefully in favor of stronger interop.
# [02:31] <garykac> My confusion with the tests in the past is that:
# [02:31] <garykac> (1) they seemed to exist in multiple places (and I didn't know which ones were the most recent/most valid)
# [02:32] <garykac> (2) I wasn't sure what the best format was for the tests so that they would be most useful to all the browser vendors
# [02:32] <Travis> I think we are the owners/gatekeepers of the tests (at least insofar as they apply to our spec), so we should dive in to see what we want to keep, what to toss out, etc.
# [02:32] <garykac> I recall that someone was spearheading a big test push in w3c, but I don't recall the details
# [02:34] <garykac> ... I just looked it up, it was Tobie back in 2013: http://www.w3.org/blog/2013/02/testing-the-open-web-platform/
# [02:34] <garykac> I don't know what came out of that or what was decided
# [02:35] <garykac> If there are current W3C best-practices, we need to know what they are
# [02:36] <Travis> The resource I use is http://testthewebforward.org/
# [02:36] <Travis> That site has the best-practices, etc.
# [02:38] <Travis> agenda?
# [02:38] * Zakim sees 3 items remaining on the agenda:
# [02:38] * Zakim 2. working in githum? [from Travis]
# [02:38] * Zakim 3. "issues" vs. "bugs" [from Travis]
# [02:38] * Zakim 4. schedule for next milestone? [from Travis]
# [02:38] <Travis> move to agendum 2
# [02:38] * Zakim thinks agendum 2. "working in githum?" taken up [from Travis]
# [02:40] <Travis> The mirror of the test suite is: http://w3c-test.org/
# [02:42] <Travis> garykac: wondering if we can sit-down and run through this?
# [02:42] <Travis> http://w3c-test.org/dom/events/Event-constants.html
# [02:46] <Travis> Re: agenda 2, I'm not sure we will have any problems working in Github, just need to start.
# [02:46] <Travis> agenda- 2
# [02:46] * Zakim notes agendum 2, working in githum?, dropped
# [02:47] <Travis> Do we have a preference for working in Github (e.g., using their issue-tracker), or keeping in Bugzilla, or both?
# [02:48] <garykac> Does the github tracker have good integration and tracking?
# [02:48] <Travis> agenda- 3
# [02:48] * Zakim notes agendum 3, "issues" vs. "bugs", dropped
# [02:48] <Travis> I think since the bulk of our bugs are in bugzilla, it makes sense to keep that as our primary source.
# [02:48] <garykac> I don't have strong feelings. It's nice to have it all in one location. But it's not unreasonable to have the tests tracked separately.
# [02:48] <Travis> (Potentially transferring issues into bugzilla to keep it all consistent.
# [02:49] <garykac> I don't mind experimenting. We can always more the issues later if needed.
# [02:50] <Travis> s/more/move
# [02:50] <Travis> ?
# [02:50] <Travis> garykac: Which browsers should be our reference browsers?
# [02:51] <Travis> Blink, Edge, Gecko, WebKit
# [02:53] <garykac> Blink has diverged from Webkit in many ways, but I'm not sure if that impacts things like the events ordering
# [02:53] <Travis> move to the next agendum
# [02:53] <Travis> zakim,move to the next agendum
# [02:53] <Zakim> I don't understand 'move to the next agendum', Travis
# [02:53] * Travis fine.
# [02:53] <Travis> agenda- 4
# [02:53] * Zakim notes agendum 4, schedule for next milestone?, dropped
# [02:53] <garykac> If they are too similar, then it doesn't make sense to count them as two "votes" for the common behavior. We'll have to investigate a bit and see.
# [02:54] <Travis> If we're going to be focusing on testing, I'm not sure when our next milestone will be.
# [02:55] <Travis> What should we plan for our next milestone?
# [02:55] <Travis> garykac: My sense is we have small and large bugs.
# [02:55] <Travis> ... for the spec, we should write the sections that more accurately describe how events are fired (order and interactions)
# [02:55] <Travis> ... updating the format, language, etc.
# [02:55] <Travis> ... that is the next big milestone to shoot for.
# [02:56] <Travis> ... lots of small things in between.
# [02:56] <Travis> ... I think the deviceinfo thing is a distraction for right now.
# [02:57] <Travis> ... rewriting the sections and have the data to support them.
# [02:57] <Travis> Should we look holistically or consider event sequences in isolation?
# [02:58] <Travis> garykac: I hope some relatively small subset exists.
# [02:58] <Travis> ... once we have a small sample out there, people can judge and provide feedback.
# [02:58] <Travis> ... if we know now what subset we should do, we could focus on that (I'm not sure what that would be)
# [02:59] <Travis> We could try starting with Focus events?
# [03:01] <Travis> Perhaps we could try starting with the user actions/scenarios.
# [03:01] <Travis> ?
# [03:01] <Travis> garykac: Perhaps focus is a good place to start.
# [03:02] <Travis> What is our plan for the next call?
# [03:02] <Travis> garykac: I'm going to be gone from mid-July to mid-August.
# [03:02] <Travis> I'm going to be gone for large parts of July and august also.
# [03:03] <masayuki> I'm not available the last weeks of June and July.
# [03:03] <Travis> Proposal: we should meet in two weeks.
# [03:04] <Travis> Gary and I can schedule some time out-of-band to look at testing and understand how to write it up.
# [03:04] <Travis> Next meeting on the 23rd.
# [03:04] <garykac> masayuki: Are you still around on the 23rd?
# [03:04] <masayuki> No, I cannot join the last week of this month...
# [03:05] <garykac> oh, the 30th is the last week. We thought that you would be around the 23rd.
# [03:06] <Travis> masayuki: Can you make the 30th?
# [03:06] <masayuki> Ah, sure. I meant its previous week.
# [03:06] <garykac> If you can't be around the 23rd or the 30th, then maybe we should just go ahead with meeting on the 30th since that'll give more time to work on the testing items.
# [03:06] <masayuki> Yes, 30th is Okay.
# [03:06] <Travis> Ok, to be clear, are you available for the 23rd or the 30th?
# [03:06] <Travis> got it.
# [03:06] <garykac> well, then. the 30th seems to work then.
# [03:07] <garykac> ok.
# [03:07] <garykac> unitl the 30th...
# [03:07] <Travis> That's it for now. See you all on the 30th. Gary, I'll see you sooner!
# [03:07] <garykac> s/unitl/until/
# [03:08] <masayuki> See you, thank you.
# [03:08] <garykac> bye
# [03:08] <Zakim> -Travis
# [03:08] <Zakim> -garykac
# [03:08] <Zakim> RWC_WAPI()8:00PM has ended
# [03:08] <Zakim> Attendees were Travis, +1.425.936.aaaa, garykac
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# [03:08] <Travis> rrsagent, please generate the minutes.
# [03:08] <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'please generate the minutes.', Travis. Try /msg RRSAgent help
# [03:08] <Travis> rrsagent, make the minutes.
# [03:08] <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make the minutes.', Travis. Try /msg RRSAgent help
# [03:08] <Travis> zakim, make the minutes
# [03:08] <Zakim> I don't understand 'make the minutes', Travis
# [03:09] * Travis can anyone make the minutes??
# [03:09] <Travis> RRSAgent, make logs public
# [03:09] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, Travis
# [03:12] <Travis> RRSAgent, make the minutes
# [03:12] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/06/10-webapps-minutes.html Travis
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# [18:44] <uniqname> Was reading up from Mozilla's "The State of Web Components" and laded on WHATWG's wiki (https://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Custom_Elements#Rough_consensus) I was hoping to get some clarification on the consensus around using ES6 style classes for subclassing standard elements. Is the consensus around exclusively using ES6 style classes, or is this in addition to prototype mutation?
# [18:45] <uniqname> Sorry, not subclassing. registering and constructing custom elements.
# [18:46] <tantek> uniqname: lazywebrequest: URL for the version of Mozilla's "The State of Web Components" that you're reading?
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# [18:46] <uniqname> https://hacks.mozilla.org/2015/06/the-state-of-web-components/?utm_source=html5weekly&utm_medium=email
# [18:49] <uniqname> The crux of what I'm wondering is if there is an intent to codify ES6 classes as "the" way of creating custom elements, or if a prototypal approach is style also acceptable. I know there's a lot in flux still, but was wondering if anyone has some insight into the "consensus"
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# [18:55] <tantek> consensus: there's a lot in flux still :)
# [18:58] <uniqname> tantek: nice :)
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# [19:03] <ArtB> uniqname, some of the people participating in Web Components are not in this channel so my recommendation is that you ask your Qs on the public-webapps@w3.org list
# [19:09] <uniqname> ArtB: gracias!
# [19:16] <smaug> yes, everything is still in flux. The meeting late April cut 70% of shadow DOM, and the rest 30% is still in flux
# [19:16] <smaug> well, perhaps not all of it
# [19:16] <smaug> event handling got simpler
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# [22:05] <uniqname> Are there meeting nots for the April meeting?
# [22:11] <Domenic_> uniqname: given that ES6 classes *are* prototypes I am not sure what your question is.
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# [22:56] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@public.cloak)
# [23:02] * Quits: uniqname (~Adium@public.cloak) (Request too long)
# [23:02] * Joins: uniqname (~Adium@public.cloak)
# [23:08] <uniqname> I think I've found the notes actually.
# [23:13] * Quits: fjh (~fjh@public.cloak) (fjh)
# [23:13] * fjh_ is now known as fjh
# [23:16] * Quits: fjh (~fhirsch3@public.cloak) (fjh)
# [23:23] * Quits: uniqname (~Adium@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
# [23:24] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [23:35] * Joins: jyasskin (~textual@public.cloak)
# [23:48] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [23:52] * Joins: uniqname (~Adium@public.cloak)
# [23:53] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
# [23:54] * Quits: uniqname (~Adium@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
# Session Close: Thu Jun 11 00:00:00 2015

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