/irc-logs / w3c / #webapps / 2015-07-22 / end

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# Session Start: Wed Jul 22 00:00:00 2015
# Session Ident: #webapps
# [00:00] * Joins: fjh (~fhirsch3@public.cloak)
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# [00:05] <chaals> s|http://www.w3.org/2015/07/21-webapps-minutes.html|http://www.w3.org/2015/07/21-webapps-minutes.html|
# [00:05] * Joins: alex (~alex@public.cloak)
# [00:05] <chaals> Alex, can you hear anything?
# [00:06] <chaals> (minutes from the morning session are available from http://w3.org/2015/07/21-webapps-minutes.html%7Chttp://www.w3.org/2015/07/21-webapps-minutes.html%7C
# [00:06] <chaals> aargh. I mean http://w3.org/2015/07/20-webapps-minutes.html
# [00:07] <MikeSmith> chaals, I'm on webex dialout and I can hear a bit but it's quite faint
# [00:08] <MikeSmith> (not complaining; I'm following the minutes)
# [00:08] <MikeSmith> whoever just spoke for a second there just 20 seconds ago I could hear quite well
# [00:08] <MikeSmith> but I can't hear maciej so well
# [00:09] <MikeSmith> or whoever was talking just now, responding to maciej
# [00:09] <chaals> Yeah, he is across the room from Dominic Cooney's mobile :(
# [00:09] <MikeSmith> I hear Anne very well right now
# [00:10] <MikeSmith> anyway, the webex is working, roughly
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# [00:16] <alex> Thanks chaals for getting the audio on. I am following some the transscript as well
# [00:16] <alex> its all good
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# [00:21] <smaug> which engines actually support which Mutation Events?
# [00:22] <smaug> (blur happens when it is safe to dispatch events in Gecko)
# [00:22] <smaug> and beforeunload too
# [00:22] <smaug> scriptrunners effectively
# [00:23] <alex> As of Chrome 18, mutuation events were supported per this post http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10966864/whats-the-state-of-cross-browser-support-for-dom-mutation-observers
# [00:24] <smaug> which mutation events?
# [00:24] <smaug> Chrome has never supported them all
# [00:25] <aklein> yeah, WebKit and Blink don't run for modifications to attributes
# [00:26] <smaug> ok, so DOMNodeInserted/Removed have been supported, and those are somewhat relevant here
# [00:28] <MikeSmith> thanks chaals
# [00:29] <rniwa> smaug: those are "scoped" events in WebKit/Blink and sometimes get delayed to dispatch
# [00:29] <rniwa> smaug: but they're still fired synchronously in most cases.
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# [00:39] <aklein> smaug: do you happen to know why Firefox might not want to run createdCallbacks/JS element constructors during parsing (synchronously, as the elements are created)?
# [00:44] <smaug> during parsing?
# [00:45] <smaug> I don't see parsing being an issue, at least nowhere near as tricky issue as cloneNode(true)
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# [00:52] <annevk> smaug: hmm, are scriptrunners safe from the perspective of not having mutation events and removing all those checks?
# [00:53] <annevk> smaug: cause I thought scriptrunners ran at certain times that were not necessarily safe
# [00:56] <smaug> annevk: scriptrunners run when it is safe to run scripts
# [00:56] <chaals> Topic: other outstanding issues
# [00:57] <chaals> RN: Are we going to keep consistent state between parser construction stage and createElement stage.
# [00:57] <annevk> smaug: "safe in Gecko"
# [00:57] <chaals> … to keep that consistent we need to do the sizzling dance, or fire events synchronously everywhere.
# [00:57] <annevk> smaug: it's not clear whether it's safe from a specification perspective without seeing a definition
# [00:57] <annevk> smaug: I thought they ran in some cases that I did not anticipate and would destroy e.g. the DOM Standard
# [00:58] <chaals> mjs: need more fleshed-out versions of the proposals.
# [00:58] <chaals> … feel responsibility to write up more details of the proposals I made.
# [00:58] <smaug> annevk: oh, that is possible
# [00:58] <chaals> … maybe there are others
# [00:58] <annevk> smaug: there you go :-)
# [00:59] <chaals> DD: Can we spend 10 minutes on that? If I were tasked with fleshing that out, 'd like to come back and ask about it.
# [00:59] <chaals> RN: Second thing - determinism is easier than some other things.
# [00:59] <chaals> AK: For upgrading?
# [00:59] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
# [00:59] <chaals> RN: Yes. we can come up with something
# [01:00] <chaals> … seems we agreed we want to support upgrades.
# [01:00] <chaals> … preserve wrapper identity seem to keep that property.
# [01:00] <smaug> annevk: well, DOM spec doesn't deal with mutations at all, so many range operations are somewhat broken
# [01:00] <chaals> … don't know if mutation observers is the biggest problem here.
# [01:00] <chaals> AvK: Yeah it is trivial.
# [01:01] <chaals> RN: Another question is if e want to have a created/ready callback at all.
# [01:01] <annevk> smaug: in a world without mutation events they're not
# [01:01] <annevk> smaug: but in a world with near-synchronous blur they are
# [01:01] <chaals> DD: Innovation with super hack convinces me that anything you can do with the callback can be done with constructor, including making all the same issues.
# [01:01] * Quits: jsbell (~jsbell@public.cloak) ("There's no place like home...")
# [01:01] <chaals> SM: Still possible to create an element but not attach it.
# [01:02] <chaals> DD: Or we have if (notInitialised) initialise();
# [01:02] <chaals> AK: If I call a callback on a thing I created…
# [01:02] <smaug> annevk: DOMNodeRemoved is not-near-sync, but sync.
# [01:02] <chaals> MJS: attaching the prototype can be done by the engine
# [01:02] <chaals> … either do optional init because tehre is no guarantee, or the engine wraps to make sure it happens. Then you are creating a proxy in effect.
# [01:02] <chaals> … so just do that.
# [01:02] <annevk> smaug: yes, in a world with mutation events the DOM Standard is broken
# [01:03] <chaals> [you need something]
# [01:03] <annevk> smaug: and in a world where blur fires synchronously it is too
# [01:03] <smaug> well, blur isn't sync
# [01:03] <chaals> RN: There is the question of is= attribute
# [01:03] <smaug> it is near-sync, in Gecko at least
# [01:03] <annevk> smaug: if it's from a scriptrunner that fires while doing range operations it breaks the DOM Standard
# [01:04] <chaals> DG: And identifying synchronous timing and whether we can achieve that. Someone should experiement with it. If we can do it then it sounds awesome.
# [01:04] <smaug> oh, right
# [01:04] <annevk> smaug: and afaik it does
# [01:04] <chaals> s/smaug:/smaug,/G
# [01:04] <chaals> DG: Think we can experiment with this...
# [01:04] <chaals> RN: Some questions for first items require the answer to that.
# [01:04] <chaals> … otherwise requirements change.
# [01:05] <chaals> AK: So if we are leaning to synchronous is OK, we should make a system that assumes that and see what happens.
# [01:05] <chaals> DG: We could e.g. turn off microtasks and feed it to the fuzzer and see what happens.
# [01:05] <chaals> AvK: Gecko breaks range operations with the blur thing. There is stuff DOM doesn't handle for blur.
# [01:06] <chaals> MJS: Looks like gecko won't invoke blur if the currently focused thing is removed.
# [01:06] <chaals> RN: Seems like a bug.
# [01:06] <chaals> AvK: Huh.
# [01:06] <chaals> DC: On general spec question of timing, can edge share tests on their model of DOM mutations?
# [01:06] <chaals> TL: Yep.. put some notes into the issue I raised on this.
# [01:07] <chaals> ACTION: AvK fix DOM
# [01:07] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
# [01:07] * RRSAgent records action 1
# [01:07] <trackbot> Error finding 'AvK'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/users>.
# [01:07] <chaals> ACTION: Anne to fix DOM
# [01:07] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
# [01:07] * RRSAgent records action 2
# [01:07] <trackbot> Error finding 'Anne'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/users>.
# [01:08] <chaals> DD: Could propose doing deterministic upgrading wthout a dance, ending in one of two states, and see what that looks like. I am willing to do that.
# [01:08] * annevk doesn't think he's actually a member
# [01:08] * annevk don't tell Jeff
# [01:08] <chaals> RN: There is another one deterministic with the dance. Maciej gets to expand on that.
# [01:08] * chaals thinks of mjs as the new lord of the dance.
# [01:08] <chaals> TL: I'll flesh out the states proposal.
# [01:09] <chaals> AE: I'll do the work and travis can take the credit.
# [01:09] * Joins: Travis (~Travis@public.cloak)
# [01:09] <chaals> DG: If we get new proposals, that is good too.
# [01:09] <chaals> Topic: is=
# [01:10] <chaals> MJS: kill it with fire. Or defer it to v2.
# [01:10] <chaals> … inheriting from arbitrary builtins seems to make things supercomplicated.
# [01:10] <chaals> … attempts to be a solution to give accessibility fallback but won't work because it is too simplistic.
# [01:10] * Joins: harrisjb (~harrisjb@public.cloak)
# [01:11] <chaals> … If you implement a custom with complex internal structure, browser knows role/state
# [01:11] <chaals> … with a custom binding, you don't know what the binding is.
# [01:11] <chaals> AB: You can use labels, put it in forms...
# [01:11] <chaals> MJS: Maybe not. If it doesn't respect the behaviour of the underlying builtin.
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# [01:12] <dglazkov> CM: did some playing around in the context of playing with ARIA roles
# [01:12] <dglazkov> .. some hacking in WebKit
# [01:13] <dglazkov> ... examples were input type=date and sliders
# [01:13] <dglazkov> ... (colorful language)
# [01:13] <dglazkov> ... if you do that and expose those roles as states
# [01:13] <dglazkov> ... ARIA and role/state in WebKit did match
# [01:14] <dglazkov> ... so it seemed like you would in fact get the right behavior
# [01:14] <dglazkov> ... native element already has all the right events and fires events
# [01:14] <dglazkov> ... custom element does need to pick up the event
# [01:14] <dglazkov> ... but does not have to build things from scratch
# [01:14] <dglazkov> ... when you extend, you get a bunch of things for free
# [01:15] <dglazkov> ... and they actually do work
# [01:15] <dglazkov> ... so for elements more complex than button, it does seem to be actually very easy to give developers a simple way of extending that works
# [01:16] <dglazkov> AVK: is this a good idea for v1
# [01:16] <dglazkov> AR: we pinned a lot of hopes and dreams for is=
# [01:16] <dglazkov> AR: in an attempt to frame lifecycle methods (or mixin)
# [01:17] <chaals> AR: We have pinned a lot of hope on is= because it lets you inherit behaviour. What is happening hwre is an explicit attempt to take lifecycle methods or mixins, synthesise events, and create the behaviours you want to have applied.
# [01:17] * dglazkov weee!!!
# [01:17] <chaals> … using is= doesn't give you that power to implement it yourself.
# [01:17] <mjs> (Aside: this JSFiddle shows different behavior between Firefox and Chrome/Safari: http://jsfiddle.net/4ocLxx9b/ )
# [01:17] <chaals> … so if you want to customise, you end up inextensible. The instinct to do what is= does is right, points at the system where it is too closed - how do I get the behaviour from the elements and expose them.
# [01:18] <chaals> … not sure is= gets us to where we want to go.
# [01:18] <chaals> Avk: Don't think is= gets us there.
# [01:18] <chaals> MJS: Think the value is to make new things that are not just tweaked existing ones. You need to expose the primitives required to be a form element, such as having a label, participating in form submission.
# [01:18] <chaals> AvK: need something like a trait system.
# [01:18] <chaals> AR: Don't think we eed traits. we need mixins
# [01:19] <mjs> (the JSFiddle also seemingly shows Gecko not firing a blur element at all when the focused element is removed from the DOM!)
# [01:19] <mjs> (blur event I mean)
# [01:19] <chaals> AvK: Sure.
# [01:19] <chaals> AR: We can create those mixins and define what it means to mix them in to your classes, and could.
# [01:20] <chaals> SM: People want to adda little bit to a select, but not recreate it from the ground up.
# [01:20] <chaals> AB: Yes, see the 2 use cases and am excited about both halves.
# [01:20] <chaals> … there are tons of people making simple elements with trivial tweaks.
# [01:20] <chaals> AvK: Ideally for that we have subclassing.
# [01:20] <chaals> SM: templates is another example.
# [01:21] <chaals> … agree with what you are saying, but how long will it take.
# [01:21] <chaals> AvK: Need someone to do the work to figure it out.
# [01:21] <chaals> … doesn't seem feasible to get agreement on is=
# [01:21] <chaals> TL: is= is very underspecified
# [01:22] <chaals> DD: Problem isn't is=, it is the behaviour of the DOM elements when you use it.
# [01:22] <chaals> AvK: Thought is= itself is simple.
# [01:22] <chaals> DC: Yes.
# [01:22] <chaals> … ust makes it a custom element.
# [01:22] <chaals> SO: Didn't we rule out being able to specify shadows on these things?
# [01:23] <chaals> … say I want a super-date thing. Bad thing is if I did that but it couldn't be accessible but got used. If I could mix in the accessibility, that would be awesome.
# [01:23] <chaals> RN: What do people want to add to elements.
# [01:23] <chaals> SO: I ahve a date input control that I want to handle specifically. One tiny change, convenient to add that. To have to go ove the whole of the rest of the datepicker is a pain.
# [01:23] <chaals> TL: That';s what prototypes are for
# [01:23] <chaals> [but you don't get a bunch of pieces]
# [01:24] <chaals> SM: You mean DOM is complete and perfect?
# [01:24] <chaals> AvK: If we figure out custom elements, working out how to get lifecycle callbacks for normal elements will exist.
# [01:24] <chaals> … that's sort of what you want without the indirection thing.
# [01:24] <chaals> SM: We have 5 different kinds of template. Some are repeats, some aren't.
# [01:24] <chaals> AvK: You want subclassing.
# [01:25] <chaals> SM: Sure. How do we get there? is= looks like a quick way to get a lot of that.
# [01:25] <chaals> RN: We'll be stuck with this for ages. If it is easy, what'sth issue?
# [01:25] <chaals> DC: Impleennted it and it is ~1% more complexity. You need a sgnal from the parser if it changes, and that's it.
# [01:25] <chaals> TL: No complexity in selectors implementation?
# [01:26] <chaals> DC: What would you imagine? I touched nothing.
# [01:26] <chaals> TL: Envisaged a lot of work in cascade model, to introduce tagname alias.
# [01:26] <chaals> DD: Doesn't match the tagname selector.
# [01:26] <chaals> MG: You can't have a custom tagname anymore.
# [01:27] <dglazkov> CM: If you have a bunch of mixins, properties shared across many input types, if you had those bits
# [01:28] <dglazkov> ... and knew what they were, you could say that when you say is=date, this is what happens
# [01:28] <dglazkov> ... does it worth for me to do this work?
# [01:28] <dglazkov> SM: seems like you flipped on the head?
# [01:28] <dglazkov> CM: not sticking to specific syntax
# [01:28] <dglazkov> ... for example, moon in a circle, input type on a lunar circle
# [01:29] <dglazkov> ... want to get as much of the date picker as a I can
# [01:29] <dglazkov> ... more complicated example: mixing slider and date picker
# [01:29] <dglazkov> ... need someone to do this
# [01:29] <dglazkov> TL: just use composition rather than inheritance?
# [01:30] <dglazkov> CM: not sure, maybe this needs to be researched
# [01:30] <dglazkov> CM ... especially mixing two quite different things
# [01:30] <chaals> RN: Hardest parrt of accessibilty - if author attaches shadow dom with stuff - how to link it to UI things in the underlying element. We need something to make that linkage.
# [01:31] <chaals> AB: today that is expressed in aria in the shadow DOM
# [01:32] <dglazkov> CM: there are two different ways of doing things, one is being used widely (ARIA)
# [01:32] <chaals> AB: One reason is to subclass a date element to show your datepicker, but on mobile use platform native one.
# [01:32] <chaals> RN: That's not possible if the JS doesn't see the shadow DOM.
# [01:33] <chaals> … we can't just not run the JS to get the native thing, in the user agent.
# [01:33] <chaals> MJS: If you send input is= then it either works or not.
# [01:33] <chaals> AB: In my scenario, I ahve JS that removes the custom bit if I'm on a mobile.
# [01:34] <chaals> SM: To do the complicated things today you need to do custom things.
# [01:34] <chaals> MJS: so why do is= on a form control?
# [01:34] <chaals> SM: We don't use is= to cahnge things, but to do progressive enhancements to native elements, like inputs that fire a commit event on blur...
# [01:35] <chaals> … templates. We have 5 kinds in polymer. contents are inert. so it is useful to use them.
# [01:35] <chaals> … otherwise you would need templates inside things that gets nasty.
# [01:35] <chaals> … there are values, and relative to the cost, seems good.
# [01:35] <chaals> RN: Sounds like use case is more mixin than custom.
# [01:35] <chaals> … don't want a brand new element, you want to add features to an existing element.
# [01:36] <chaals> SM: Right and that comes out of this machinery at low cost.
# [01:36] <chaals> MJS: If itis desirable to have the new event added, you would want it without decorating every control...
# [01:36] <chaals> SM: That's a judgement call. Whenever you want more behaviour, you start from an object you want.
# [01:36] <chaals> MJS you can't is= two things.
# [01:37] <dglazkov> CM: there are separate different behaviors
# [01:37] <dglazkov> CM: I am taking an AI to write this up and come back
# [01:37] <chaals> MJS: You can't alter rendering of forms, so is= doesn't sound like the right thing.
# [01:38] <chaals> DC: I implemented is=, what I heard go past was a bit of crazy talk. Lots of constituencies want bits of stuff. The idea that you go away and spec things, you have to bite off what you are interested in. You could spec what makes video elements video-y.
# [01:38] <chaals> … that's the appeal of is=
# [01:39] <chaals> AB: When was decision made to not allow replacing shadow DOM? That's not implemented in chrome
# [01:39] <chaals> DC: think it varies by element type.
# [01:39] <chaals> MG: In gecko?
# [01:39] <chaals> AvK: We don't expose anything to the web so not a problem.
# [01:39] <chaals> Topic: deterministic upgrade with no dance.
# [01:40] <chaals> DD: If we took DG's proposal, and said "we can use constructor". I think everyone would have been happy. So we can do that...
# [01:40] <chaals> s/DG/other Dmitry/
# [01:40] <dglazkov> s/other Dmitry/Dmitry Lomov's/
# [01:40] <chaals> … take something, can upgrade, synchronously call it, can use constructor at createdcallback time
# [01:41] <chaals> … somewhat similar to current spec but photoshops it until it looks nice.
# [01:41] <chaals> MJS: Does it solve determinism problem?
# [01:41] <chaals> DD: Nope, we didn't care.
# [01:41] <chaals> SO: Reduces it to one of two states.
# [01:41] <chaals> DD: Either you are upgrading, or not.
# [01:42] <chaals> RN: Whether we do the dance is an orthogonal issue we can add in or not.
# [01:42] <chaals> DD: think I can deliver a proposal that you will be happy with...
# [01:43] <chaals> [so how impotant is the determinism issue…]
# [01:43] <chaals> MJS: Seems we have figured out how to use constructors anyway, and guarantee not more than 2 states. What we do with lifecycle might impact how we judge the relative importance.
# [01:44] <chaals> Topic: Other topics
# [01:44] <chaals> MJS: Review shadow DOM? what is the timing of lifecycle events. Can we do the shadow review?
# [01:45] <chaals> Topic: Shadow redux
# [01:45] <chaals> DG: Looked at distribution API, done some testing to understand what happens, and there was a discussion about slots proposal.
# [01:46] <chaals> … I think we came to agree that slots is a good proposal, started trying to spec out behaviour, looks fairly sane.
# [01:46] <chaals> AvK: Different from current distribution system?
# [01:46] <chaals> DG: Yes. You can specify the algorithm synchronously.
# [01:46] * terri is now known as terri_offline
# [01:46] <chaals> … inst4ad of top-down distribution there is a breakdown into stuff that happens on mutation that may affect where things go, synchronously.
# [01:47] <chaals> … when you make a change you run an operation.
# [01:47] * rniwa https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/blob/gh-pages/proposals/Slots-Proposal.md
# [01:47] <chaals> … Second algorithm is looking at the slot and unrolling teh things that are packed into it. Only called when you are treating compose tree.
# [01:47] <chaals> -> https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/blob/gh-pages/proposals/Slots-Proposal.md slots proposal
# [01:47] <chaals> … First one alters state.
# [01:48] <chaals> … second one is read-only, no alteration.
# [01:48] <chaals> … so style computation concerns don't cause state change.
# [01:48] <chaals> RN: Think nice thing about this approach is that when you modify the node you just lookup if t belongs to an immediate shadow ancestor.
# [01:49] <chaals> … then you can add and remove from the list. Then you go render.
# [01:49] <chaals> … if an item is insertion point then you go through and that's all you have to do. eliminates need for distribution pull.
# [01:50] <chaals> AvK: How do events work? they operate on compose
# [01:50] <chaals> DG: Tey don't trigger distribution, just the read-only unroll.
# [01:50] <chaals> s/Tey/They/
# [01:51] <chaals> … This is interesting because the slotting algorithm is local to the subtree. That's super-important. The old algorithm couldn't work that way.
# [01:51] <chaals> RN: Old world had recursive talking to things around you, that we don't need to do any more.
# [01:52] * Joins: arronei (~arronei@public.cloak)
# [01:52] <chaals> … keeps it simple.
# [01:52] <chaals> HI: @@@ not related to event path. In such case, distribution is not local, but global.
# [01:53] <chaals> … So proposal doesn't give benefit.
# [01:53] <chaals> AvK: @@@@
# [01:53] <chaals> DG: mutation that causes a change doesn't alter state in computing.
# [01:53] <chaals> HI: New algo has 2 paths - one is only local, but most of API including event path depends on global world.
# [01:54] <chaals> … There is no such a mutation. We should resolve these in terms of global.
# [01:54] <chaals> RN: Old algorith required global insertion because we didn't know where nodes would land until we did that. I the new approach you only consider each shadow subtree to figure out the next point. Don't have to resolve complete document, can step through as necessary.
# [01:55] <chaals> DG: THink we are in good shape to finish this up and be done with v1.
# [01:55] <chaals> MJS: hook for entereing closed mode is in spec, but it isn't defined in teh spec.
# [01:55] <chaals> HI: Yes, it is done.
# [01:55] <chaals> AvK: renamiing shadowroot raised some new ideas on that.
# [01:55] <chaals> MJS: Maybe I should read the spec. [crazy talk!!]
# [01:56] <chaals> HI: only remaining issue is API surface for closing shadow
# [01:56] <chaals> … attach shadow…
# [01:56] <chaals> AvK: Does it AB or XY? Difference matters to the state object proposal.
# [01:56] <chaals> DD: Would oove to have the underpinnings modeled but we can do attachShadow now and explain its underpinnings later.
# [01:57] <chaals> AvK: So have one with no arguments now, make that happen later.
# [01:57] <chaals> DD: If you want to manually attach it, do.
# [01:57] <Domenic_> https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/issues/129
# [01:57] <chaals> DG: THink attachShadow is fine.
# [01:57] <chaals> AvK: If we can resolve it is attachShadow that's cool for now and we can strat implenenting and enable.
# [01:58] <chaals> RN: issue 89 on github is about event targeting. I tthought we agreed we wanted it to be optional.
# [01:58] <chaals> [there is no agreement that there was agreement]
# [01:58] * chaals sees Ryosuke doing something crazy like looking at what we decided ...
# [01:59] <chaals> AvK: DeepPath seems like a hack.
# [01:59] <chaals> … why not all the other bits?
# [01:59] <chaals> RN: Github issue for the path thing?
# [01:59] <chaals> AvK: Think PathTHingy was going to be deepPath.
# [01:59] <chaals> [yes. it was.]
# [02:00] <chaals> HI: Done in the spec.
# [02:00] <chaals> … blink intends to ship that.
# [02:00] <chaals> RN: What about it affecting local tree and document?
# [02:00] <chaals> AvK: We didn't do that. It's going from target and through its parent nodes, so we decided we didn't need it now.
# [02:01] <chaals> DD: Could be filed on DOM so we remember.
# [02:01] <chaals> AvK: There is. In a disused lavatory with no lights in the cellar with missing stairs and a sign on the door saying beware of the …
# [02:01] <chaals> MG: So is there an existing thing, or…?
# [02:02] <chaals> DG: We have some bugs, proposals, and a few changes. ut none of the issues are contentious, there is just work to do.
# [02:02] <chaals> SO: Big change was exploring imperative API, that morphed into slot.
# [02:02] <chaals> TL: API for slots?
# [02:02] <chaals> [no]
# [02:02] <chaals> RN: So do we agree on punting imperative API for that?
# [02:02] <chaals> [agreement]
# [02:02] <chaals> SO: We want it. One day.
# [02:02] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@public.cloak) (sicking)
# [02:03] <chaals> AvK: Need to figure out in DOM if it supports integrating shadows.
# [02:03] <chaals> … also, we should just stop doing work.
# [02:03] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@public.cloak)
# [02:04] <chaals> TOC: We have a meeting at TPAC?
# [02:04] <chaals> [yes]
# [02:07] * Quits: rniwa (~textual@public.cloak) ("My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…")
# [02:07] <chaals> DG: Thanks for coming, think it was good.
# [02:07] * Quits: mjs (~mjs@public.cloak) (mjs)
# [02:07] <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, make miutes
# [02:07] <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make miutes', MikeSmith. Try /msg RRSAgent help
# [02:07] <dglazkov> yay!
# [02:07] <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, make minutes
# [02:07] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/22-webapps-minutes.html MikeSmith
# [02:07] <chaals> ACTION: chaals to collect the various minutes and make them as coherent as the reality of the meeting.
# [02:07] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
# [02:07] * RRSAgent records action 3
# [02:07] <trackbot> Created ACTION-757 - Collect the various minutes and make them as coherent as the reality of the meeting. [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2015-07-29].
# [02:07] <chaals> Thanks to Google for hosting, everyone for coming, scribes for scribing.
# [02:07] <chaals> [adjourned]
# [02:08] <chaals> Sorry to people who were trying to dial in early. We'll note that we didn't get that right and try to avoid making that mistake again.
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# [02:09] <MikeSmith> お疲れ様
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# [08:45] * Topic is '#webapps f2f meeting - Web Components notes going in https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KSwKrTU2d0uJCf55tV-jur_0sYxCNMuM7Dl3vqb0bu4/edit?pli=1'
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# Session Close: Thu Jul 23 00:00:00 2015

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