/irc-logs / w3c / #webapps / 2016-01-20 / end

Options:

Previous day, Next day

  1. # Session Start: Wed Jan 20 00:00:00 2016
  2. # Session Ident: #webapps
  3. # [00:41] * Quits: wilsonpage (~wilsonpage@public.cloak) ("My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…")
  4. # [00:56] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  5. # [01:15] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  6. # [01:54] * Joins: masayuki (~masayuki@public.cloak)
  7. # [01:59] * Quits: jsbell (~jsbell@public.cloak) ("There's no place like home...")
  8. # [02:06] * Quits: smaug (~chatzilla@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  9. # [02:07] * Joins: garykac (~garykac@public.cloak)
  10. # [02:08] * Joins: Travis (~Travis@public.cloak)
  11. # [02:08] <Travis> garykac: Can't reach the meeting at the last number we used...
  12. # [02:08] <Travis> You around to chat?
  13. # [02:10] <garykac> yep
  14. # [02:11] <Travis> Cool.
  15. # [02:11] <garykac> I didn't try the number yet. I was waiting to make sure we were on before trying.
  16. # [02:11] <masayuki> Hello.
  17. # [02:15] <Travis> Hi Masayuki.
  18. # [02:16] <garykac> We had a meeting at Microsoft 2 weeks ago where we talked about UIEvents, beforeinput and Editing
  19. # [02:17] <garykac> One thing that came up was that dead keys do not generate composition events on Windows. Whereas they do on Mac.
  20. # [02:17] <garykac> This is true for all browsers (well, all the ones that I tested).
  21. # [02:18] <masayuki> Yeah, Mac and Linux uses (simple) IME for dead key.
  22. # [02:18] <garykac> I'd just like to confirm that there isn't any technical reason why this isn't done on Windows.
  23. # [02:19] <masayuki> If we ignore backward compatibility, browsers should emulate composition events with dead key messages on Windows.
  24. # [02:19] <garykac> I assume that there isn't (a technical reason why it can't happen) - just that the OS doesn't generate these synthetic events and the browser could do this.
  25. # [02:20] <masayuki> garykac: exactly. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-US/library/windows/desktop/ms646277%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
  26. # [02:20] <garykac> Ok. Good, I just wanted to double-check that. Thanks!
  27. # [02:21] <masayuki> dead key causes WM_KEYDOWN -> WM_DEADCHAR -> WM_KEYUP -> WM_KEYDOWN -> WM_CHAR -> WM_KEYUP.
  28. # [02:24] <garykac> masayuki: I was checking the key/code values for <ctrl>+key and saw an issue on FF.
  29. # [02:24] <masayuki> garykac: Oh, really?
  30. # [02:24] <garykac> If you press <ctrl>-'=' you get key='='
  31. # [02:25] <garykac> if you press <ctrl>-<shift>-'=', you also get key = '='
  32. # [02:25] <garykac> But for most other keys, you get the shifted value
  33. # [02:26] <garykac> IF you press <ctrl>-'-', you get key='-'
  34. # [02:26] <garykac> If you press <ctrl>-<shift>-'-', you get key = '_' (underscore)
  35. # [02:26] <masayuki> garykac: On which platform?
  36. # [02:26] <garykac> Mac
  37. # [02:27] <masayuki> garykca: Okay, I'll check it later. I cannot test it now (I'm in Tokyo office).
  38. # [02:27] <garykac> The '-' results match the spec, but I'm not sure if (1) it works for all locales, and (2) if it's worth the effort (vs. simply returning the unshifted value.)
  39. # [02:28] <garykac> I haven't tested on non-US locales
  40. # [02:29] <garykac> I don't want browser vendors to have to have lookup tables for each locale just to support this - this is an edge case, so we should spec whatever is easier to implement/support.
  41. # [02:29] <masayuki> On Windows, I don't see the problem, but Mac could be. (Mac OS X depends on the using keyboard's physical layout :-(
  42. # [02:29] <garykac> I'm not 100% sure what the "easiest" is, so we'll have to look at it a bit more and I wanted to get your opinion.
  43. # [02:31] <masayuki> garykac: I still believe that current spec's behavior is not so difficult and what the web developers want. But I'll check the Mac's implementation.
  44. # [02:32] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  45. # [02:32] <garykac> Most of the keys act like the '=' key above (the key for <ctrl>4 == the key for <ctrl><shift>4)
  46. # [02:33] <garykac> The '-' key (on mac) is the oddball - it's the only one that didn't match.
  47. # [02:34] <garykac> It sounds like a bug in FF.
  48. # [02:34] <garykac> Just for that one key.
  49. # [02:38] <masayuki> Looks like that this is not work for non-alphabet keys... http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/widget/cocoa/TextInputHandler.mm?rev=5082370c9ea0&mark=841-848#841
  50. # [02:38] <masayuki> So, this must be a simple bug of Firefox.
  51. # [02:39] <Travis> <aside>https://github.com/w3c/uievents/issues/53</aside>
  52. # [02:39] <garykac> Yeah. actually, it looks like number keys have the same problem.
  53. # [02:40] <masayuki> garykac: I'm tourble in https://github.com/w3c/uievents-key/issues/14 and https://github.com/w3c/uievents-code/issues/8
  54. # [02:41] <masayuki> garykac: "Audio" prefix with Volume keys will break backward compatibility of both Firefox and IE/Edge. So, the prefix shouldn't be necessary.
  55. # [02:41] <masayuki> garykac: Then, code value will match the names for them.
  56. # [02:43] <garykac> At this point, there aren't many users of key and code because they're still very new. IE/Edge already has a number of breaking changes that need to be make to |key|.
  57. # [02:43] <garykac> Are you aware of any specific problems with this particular name?
  58. # [02:44] <garykac> FF just recently added support and Chrome/Safari doesn't yet have support for |key|, so any use can't be widespread.
  59. # [02:45] <Travis> Right, even internal folks haven't adopted 'key' yet because of lack of cross-browser support. So, as long as Chrome/Firefox can make a coordinated change, it should be OK for us.
  60. # [02:45] <masayuki> garykac: Right. But I don't think that there is enough reason to break the backward compatibility in this case.
  61. # [02:47] <garykac> The reason is to distinguish AudioVolumeUp from MicrophoneVolumeUp
  62. # [02:47] <garykac> VolumeUp is ambiguous
  63. # [02:48] <masayuki> garykac: Ah...
  64. # [02:48] <garykac> We could live with the ambiguous name (since the default is assumed to be audio), but is seemed reasonable to eliminate the potential problem.
  65. # [02:50] <garykac> Same problem for VolumeUp, VolumeDown and VolumeMute. Except that with VolumeMute it's less obvious whether it's audio or microphone by default.
  66. # [02:50] <masayuki> Indeed.
  67. # [02:51] <garykac> As for matching |key| and |code|, that's not a requirement but it might be nice.
  68. # [02:52] <masayuki> I think so. Somebody may be confused why this code won't work: |aEvent.code == "AudioVolumeDown"|.
  69. # [02:53] <garykac> It probably makes sense to change it to Audio* just in case we add |code| values for microphone keys.
  70. # [02:53] <garykac> I'm surprised that we don't have any keyboards with microphone keys...
  71. # [02:54] <garykac> OK. So I'll fix code#8 to that the |code| values become AudioVolume*
  72. # [02:54] <masayuki> I guess that it's not so major usage to use microphone on PC (at least several years ago).
  73. # [02:55] <masayuki> garykac: Okay, sounds good to me.
  74. # [02:55] <garykac> I'll add a comment to key#14 to note that the change was to differentiate between Audio* and Mircophone*
  75. # [02:59] <garykac> OK. I commented on key#14 and closed it.
  76. # [02:59] <garykac> Thanks for bringing this up.
  77. # [02:59] <masayuki> garykac: Thank you, this was blocked my work ;-)
  78. # [03:00] <garykac> Sorry about that
  79. # [03:00] <garykac> I'm glad your unblocked now.
  80. # [03:04] <garykac> Shall we need 2 weeks from now.
  81. # [03:04] <masayuki> I'm available next week, so, up to you.
  82. # [03:06] <Travis> I'm out next week at a web components meeting, but will be back on Feb 2.
  83. # [03:08] <garykac> Ok 2 Feb 2016 sounds good.
  84. # [03:08] <masayuki> Sure.
  85. # [03:10] <garykac> g'bye 'til next time...
  86. # [03:10] * Quits: garykac (~garykac@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
  87. # [03:10] <masayuki> See you!
  88. # [03:15] * Quits: masayuki (~masayuki@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
  89. # [03:18] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  90. # [03:20] * Joins: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak)
  91. # [04:40] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  92. # [04:53] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  93. # [05:00] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  94. # [05:17] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  95. # [05:46] * Quits: Travis (~Travis@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  96. # [06:24] * Quits: rniwa (~textual@public.cloak) ("Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com")
  97. # [07:34] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  98. # [08:06] * Quits: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak) ("Snuggling with the puppies")
  99. # [08:21] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
  100. # [09:06] * Joins: dom (dom@public.cloak)
  101. # [09:45] * Joins: wilsonpage (~wilsonpage@public.cloak)
  102. # [09:56] * wilsonpage is now known as wilsonpage-away
  103. # [10:09] * wilsonpage-away is now known as wilsonpage
  104. # [10:57] * Joins: LJWatson (~chatzilla@public.cloak)
  105. # [10:58] * Quits: wilsonpage (~wilsonpage@public.cloak) ("My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…")
  106. # [11:51] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  107. # [12:17] * Joins: wilsonpage (~wilsonpage@public.cloak)
  108. # [12:46] * wilsonpage is now known as wilsonpage-away
  109. # [12:47] * Quits: wilsonpage-away (~wilsonpage@public.cloak) ("My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…")
  110. # [12:50] * Joins: wilsonpage (~wilsonpage@public.cloak)
  111. # [12:51] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  112. # [12:52] * Joins: Florian_ (~Florian@public.cloak)
  113. # [12:58] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  114. # [13:17] * Quits: wilsonpage (~wilsonpage@public.cloak) ("My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…")
  115. # [13:25] * Quits: Florian_ (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  116. # [13:31] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  117. # [13:39] * Joins: smaug (~chatzilla@public.cloak)
  118. # [14:13] * Quits: smaug (~chatzilla@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  119. # [14:15] * Joins: smaug (~chatzilla@public.cloak)
  120. # [14:52] * Joins: wilsonpage (~wilsonpage@public.cloak)
  121. # [15:04] * wilsonpage is now known as wilsonpage-away
  122. # [15:04] * Quits: wilsonpage-away (~wilsonpage@public.cloak) ("My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…")
  123. # [15:12] * Joins: chaals (~Adium@public.cloak)
  124. # [15:34] * Joins: wilsonpage (~wilsonpage@public.cloak)
  125. # [15:40] * wilsonpage is now known as wilsonpage-away
  126. # [15:42] * Quits: wilsonpage-away (~wilsonpage@public.cloak) ("My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…")
  127. # [15:48] * Joins: wilsonpage (~wilsonpage@public.cloak)
  128. # [16:11] * Quits: wilsonpage (~wilsonpage@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  129. # [16:17] * Quits: smaug (~chatzilla@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  130. # [16:27] * Joins: wilsonpage (~wilsonpage@public.cloak)
  131. # [16:34] * Quits: wilsonpage (~wilsonpage@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  132. # [16:37] * Joins: wilsonpage (~wilsonpage@public.cloak)
  133. # [16:42] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  134. # [16:57] * Quits: wilsonpage (~wilsonpage@public.cloak) ("My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…")
  135. # [17:00] * Joins: wilsonpage (~wilsonpage@public.cloak)
  136. # [17:00] * Joins: Tink (~chatzilla@public.cloak)
  137. # [17:00] * Quits: Tink (~chatzilla@public.cloak) ("Carpe diem")
  138. # [17:00] * Joins: fjh (~fhirsch3@public.cloak)
  139. # [17:03] * Quits: LJWatson (~chatzilla@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  140. # [17:06] * Joins: bryan (~uid15860@public.cloak)
  141. # [17:14] * Joins: smaug (~chatzilla@public.cloak)
  142. # [17:27] * Joins: LJWatson (~chatzilla@public.cloak)
  143. # [18:01] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
  144. # [18:08] * Quits: fjh (~fhirsch3@public.cloak) (fjh)
  145. # [18:08] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
  146. # [18:33] * wilsonpage is now known as wilsonpage-away
  147. # [18:34] * wilsonpage-away is now known as wilsonpage
  148. # [18:42] * wilsonpage is now known as wilsonpage-away
  149. # [18:43] * Quits: wilsonpage-away (~wilsonpage@public.cloak) ("My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…")
  150. # [18:47] * Joins: wilsonpage (~wilsonpage@public.cloak)
  151. # [18:50] * wilsonpage is now known as wilsonpage-away
  152. # [18:51] * Quits: dom (dom@public.cloak) ("")
  153. # [18:51] * Quits: LJWatson (~chatzilla@public.cloak) ("Carpe diem")
  154. # [18:51] * Joins: LJWatson (~chatzilla@public.cloak)
  155. # [18:51] * Quits: wilsonpage-away (~wilsonpage@public.cloak) ("My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…")
  156. # [18:57] * Joins: wilsonpage (~wilsonpage@public.cloak)
  157. # [18:58] * Joins: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak)
  158. # [19:06] * wilsonpage is now known as wilsonpage-away
  159. # [19:06] * Quits: wilsonpage-away (~wilsonpage@public.cloak) ("My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…")
  160. # [19:09] * Joins: jcraig (~jcraig@public.cloak)
  161. # [19:20] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  162. # [19:32] * Quits: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak) ("Snuggling with the puppies")
  163. # [19:32] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  164. # [19:34] * Joins: jsbell (~jsbell@public.cloak)
  165. # [19:35] * Joins: wilsonpage (~wilsonpage@public.cloak)
  166. # [19:40] * Joins: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak)
  167. # [19:54] * Quits: jcraig (~jcraig@public.cloak) (jcraig)
  168. # [20:00] * Joins: jcraig (~jcraig@public.cloak)
  169. # [20:06] * Quits: smaug (~chatzilla@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  170. # [20:07] * Joins: smaug (~chatzilla@public.cloak)
  171. # [20:33] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  172. # [20:38] * wilsonpage is now known as wilsonpage-away
  173. # [20:43] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak) (tantek)
  174. # [20:52] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
  175. # [21:03] * Joins: bkardell_ (~uid10373@public.cloak)
  176. # [21:09] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  177. # [21:10] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  178. # [21:40] * Quits: jcraig (~jcraig@public.cloak) (jcraig)
  179. # [22:04] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  180. # [22:17] * Quits: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak) ("Snuggling with the puppies")
  181. # [22:19] * Quits: chaals (~Adium@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
  182. # [22:40] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  183. # [23:00] * Joins: rniwa (~textual@public.cloak)
  184. # [23:02] * Joins: dgrogan (~dgrogan@public.cloak)
  185. # [23:05] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  186. # [23:06] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@public.cloak)
  187. # [23:10] * Joins: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak)
  188. # [23:34] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  189. # [23:51] * Quits: bkardell_ (~uid10373@public.cloak) ("Connection closed for inactivity")
  190. # [23:54] * Joins: jcraig (~jcraig@public.cloak)
  191. # [23:55] * Quits: wilsonpage-away (~wilsonpage@public.cloak) ("My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…")
  192. # Session Close: Thu Jan 21 00:00:00 2016

Previous day, Next day

Think these logs are useful? Then please donate to show your gratitude (and keep them up, of course). Thanks! — Krijn