/irc-logs / w3c / #webapps / 2016-01-26 / end

Options:

Previous day, Next day

  1. # Session Start: Tue Jan 26 00:00:00 2016
  2. # Session Ident: #webapps
  3. # [00:00] <rniwa> esprehn: so there is no way to put things into head with custom elements
  4. # [00:00] <rniwa> esprehn: and we need to make the parser behavior different in order to allow this
  5. # [00:00] <rniwa> annevk: we probably don't want to allow that because that would require everyone running scripts all the time
  6. # [00:01] <rniwa> Domenic_: more generic syntax for inheriting from an element will be <super-a extends="a"> instead of <a is="super-a">
  7. # [00:01] <rniwa> but this syntax has all the downsides of having to look up definitions
  8. # [00:02] <rniwa> hober: is= seems like a good feature to think about when we think about what features are missing
  9. # [00:02] <justin> q+
  10. # [00:02] <rniwa> hober: but since removing a feature is impossible, but maybe we should not add this feature now because we may regret later
  11. # [00:02] * Zakim sees justin on the speaker queue
  12. # [00:02] <chaals> q+
  13. # [00:02] * Zakim sees justin, chaals on the speaker queue
  14. # [00:02] <chaals> ack ju
  15. # [00:02] * Zakim sees chaals on the speaker queue
  16. # [00:03] <rniwa> justin: from API consumer point of view, we used link element (subclassed) and it's a real shame to lose that functionality
  17. # [00:03] <rniwa> justin: what's the objection from implementor's side?
  18. # [00:03] <rniwa> Travis: it's that it's a bad declarative syntax
  19. # [00:03] <rniwa> chaals: it's ugly; this is what I hear.
  20. # [00:04] <LJWatson> q+ to ask whether role= could be used/extended to trigger native behaviour?
  21. # [00:04] * Zakim sees chaals, LJWatson on the speaker queue
  22. # [00:04] <rniwa> chaals: a question I pose counter to hober's point is that perhaps is= will solve many problems for once instead of having to go figure out three different problems separately and come up with a separate solution
  23. # [00:05] <rniwa> chaals: like some things in HTML, we may regret about this feature but it might be cheaper to be sorry later than not having anything that works for years
  24. # [00:05] <rniwa> esprehn: we also find that this is useful for polyfilling
  25. # [00:06] <rniwa> esprehn: e.g. dialog element can be polyfilled using lifecycle callbacks to get the timing right which is hard to do today
  26. # [00:06] <rniwa> Domenic_: here's a lot of things you can do with is=
  27. # [00:06] <rniwa> parsing hooks for <template>, <p>, <head>, <table>
  28. # [00:06] <rniwa> accessibility bheavior
  29. # [00:07] <rniwa> some DOM objects such as DOMTokenList
  30. # [00:07] <rniwa> status bar hover (e.g. on a)
  31. # [00:07] <rniwa> default style cascade position
  32. # [00:07] <rniwa> some pseudo class states such as :visited, :disabled, :link, :read-only, etc...
  33. # [00:07] <rniwa> focusable w/o tabindex
  34. # [00:07] <rniwa> hook into preload scanner
  35. # [00:08] <rniwa> hober: I think this is a lost of features some of which we may want or not want
  36. # [00:08] <rniwa> hober: e.g. we may not want custom elements to override status bar
  37. # [00:08] <rniwa> hober: pseudo style matching or having accessibility API might be useful
  38. # [00:09] <rniwa> justin: is= attribute is ugly and in many cases you'd use custom tag name
  39. # [00:09] <rniwa> justin: but it's useful in a few minority cases in which this feature is useful.
  40. # [00:09] <rniwa> justin: so it's ugly but only in subset of cases
  41. # [00:10] <rniwa> hober: it's weird that author has to use one or another sometimes
  42. # [00:10] <rniwa> monica: but author already knows because there are some things browser wouldn't allow you to do
  43. # [00:10] <rniwa> justin: similar things with link and template.
  44. # [00:11] <rniwa> Travis: this is really about participate in lifecycle/callbacks of native elements
  45. # [00:12] <rniwa> dglazkov: what if i asked all browsers had all these features except is=
  46. # [00:13] <chaals> s/i asked/
  47. # [00:13] <rniwa> justin: what worries me is what if we had a set of native features and some of them were not extensible or amendable to support our use case
  48. # [00:13] * Quits: wilsonpage (~wilsonpage@public.cloak) ("My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…")
  49. # [00:13] <chaals> s/except/instead of
  50. # [00:14] <rniwa> justin: for our subclass of link element, we say use <link is=~> so it's never ambiguous as to which syntax you use
  51. # [00:14] <rniwa> annevk: what if instead of is=, we added the capability to add lifecycle callbacks
  52. # [00:15] <rniwa> Domenic_: what if I wanted to add methods and properties
  53. # [00:15] <rniwa> esprehn: what if I wanted one behavior in one a and another in another a
  54. # [00:15] <rniwa> annevk: you don't. you get custom behaviors for all elements
  55. # [00:15] <justin> q+
  56. # [00:15] * Zakim sees chaals, LJWatson, justin on the speaker queue
  57. # [00:16] <rniwa> chaals: with custom elements, we can have my-evan-links, my-odd-links, and you can put different ones
  58. # [00:16] <rniwa> chaals: but you can't do that with that kind of global extension
  59. # [00:16] <chaals> ack me
  60. # [00:16] * Zakim sees LJWatson, justin on the speaker queue
  61. # [00:16] <rniwa> justin: now for our use case, we have to implement our non-standardized attribute
  62. # [00:17] <rniwa> esprehn: this can be very spammy
  63. # [00:17] <chaals> ack LJWatson
  64. # [00:17] <Zakim> LJWatson, you wanted to ask whether role= could be used/extended to trigger native behaviour?
  65. # [00:17] * Zakim sees justin on the speaker queue
  66. # [00:17] <rniwa> LJWatson: I was wondering if we could extend "role" attribute
  67. # [00:17] <rniwa> LJWatson: what if "role" attribute made element actually linkable instead of only exposing it to AT.
  68. # [00:18] <rniwa> hober, Domenic_ : this might not be backwards compatible because authors put this on some elements in which they don't expect such a behavior
  69. # [00:19] <LJWatson> ack me
  70. # [00:19] * Zakim sees justin on the speaker queue
  71. # [00:26] * Quits: LJWatson (~LJWatson@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
  72. # [00:27] * Quits: arronei (~arronei@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  73. # [00:28] * Joins: LJWatson (~LJWatson@public.cloak)
  74. # [00:31] * Quits: jan_miksovsky (~jan_miksovsky@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  75. # [00:49] <esprehn> chaals: Asked esprehn to scribe
  76. # [00:49] <chaals> scribe: esprehn
  77. # [00:49] <esprehn> dglazkov: can we summarize all the in person discussions?
  78. # [00:49] <esprehn> justin: we were mainly talking about the (polymer) use cases
  79. # [00:50] <esprehn> justin: the only way we can see working around losing is is to essentially run the custom elements polyfill in every shadowroot of the document
  80. # [00:50] <esprehn> justin: and do the upgrading ourselves with mutation observers, with MO timing, etc. it'll be very difficult
  81. # [00:50] <esprehn> Travis: change to as or "with"
  82. # [00:50] <esprehn> "as"
  83. # [00:50] * plh waits for "couldbe"
  84. # [00:51] * dglazkov wannabe
  85. # [00:51] <esprehn> Travis: I found that "with" explains it better
  86. # [00:52] <chaals> esprehn: Other discussion: all this stuff is does is important,but years of work. is= is a really quick way to solve it, and that avoids having authors making piles of broken things while they are waiting for us to get to nirvana
  87. # [00:52] * plh "isForNow"
  88. # [00:52] <esprehn> justin: what's the conclusion?
  89. # [00:53] <esprehn> chaals: who opposes?
  90. # [00:53] <esprehn> rniwa: I oppose
  91. # [00:53] <dglazkov> \
  92. # [00:53] <dglazkov> ooops
  93. # [00:53] * dglazkov was cleaning keyboard
  94. # [00:53] <esprehn> monica: do you mean in v1 or v2 or ever?
  95. # [00:54] <esprehn> rniwa: what can we agree on and have this feature be available in all browsers?
  96. # [00:54] * plh "withoutApple"
  97. # [00:54] <esprehn> chaals: what do others think?
  98. # [00:54] <esprehn> Travis: I think it's a compelling feature
  99. # [00:54] <esprehn> wchen: we're neutral
  100. # [00:55] <esprehn> Travis: it layers on top of custom elements, you can have both things
  101. # [00:55] <esprehn> justin: I want to make sure that everyone understands our use cases
  102. # [00:55] <esprehn> rniwa: we understand them
  103. # [00:55] <esprehn> justin: if we get native custom elements without them it'll be very tough for us
  104. # [00:55] <esprehn> Domenic_: just continue using your polyfill?
  105. # [00:56] <esprehn> justin: we can't polyfill it
  106. # [00:56] <esprehn> Domenic_: you can continue using it like you do in other browsers
  107. # [00:56] <esprehn> justin: Firefox doesn't have native shadow dom so we can use a single MO
  108. # [00:56] <esprehn> rniwa: replace attachShadow and add a MO there
  109. # [00:56] <esprehn> Domenic_: if you don't want to work with the browser you have to do hacks
  110. # [00:56] <esprehn> justin: we don't want to have thousands of MO
  111. # [00:57] <esprehn> MO = MutationObserver
  112. # [00:57] <esprehn> chaals: there's a certain amount of support for doing this
  113. # [00:57] <esprehn> rniwa: I think there's a lot of frameworks that could work without this, maybe we can come to consensus in v2 and then add it
  114. # [00:57] <esprehn> justin: I think we've come a little closer on understanding the need for this feature
  115. # [00:58] <esprehn> Travis: decouple it from custom elements?
  116. # [00:58] <esprehn> Travis: we could create a new feature separate from defineElement
  117. # [00:58] <esprehn> chaals: what's the support from chrome for actually doing this?
  118. # [00:58] <esprehn> dglazkov: easy, it's already done
  119. # [00:59] <esprehn> esprehn: we think it's easy, without it authors do something really bad to emulate links
  120. # [00:59] * Quits: cdata (~cdata@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  121. # [00:59] <esprehn> chaals: we could sit around and argue consensus, or we could break it apart
  122. # [01:00] <esprehn> rniwa: why would you put the link element in a shadow dom since you can just querySelector without the parser
  123. # [01:00] <esprehn> rniwa: and the <head> problem doesn't apply
  124. # [01:00] <esprehn> rniwa: in the case where in the main document you can querySelector and define all instances of a link
  125. # [01:01] <esprehn> esprehn: when do you upgrade the links in the page?
  126. # [01:01] <esprehn> rniwa: I don't think you can expect multiple libraries to coordinate
  127. # [01:01] <chaals> s/break it apart/write it up and see what people implement and want to rely on
  128. # [01:02] <esprehn> rniwa: you have to create your own shadow dom yourself, ... this is the problem in the current api (as discussed 3 years ago) we want to have the simplest apis to allow frameworks authors to decide how they're used
  129. # [01:02] <esprehn> rniwa: now you're saying without this API some frameworks have issues
  130. # [01:02] <esprehn> justin: we think without this there's issues
  131. # [01:02] <esprehn> chaals: my experience is that the use cases keep coming back and the browsers keep coming back and saying they dont' want do it. One browser did it (chrome), one said we think it's compelling (Edge), one said no (Safari)
  132. # [01:03] <esprehn> chaals: sitting around and discussing if it'll fly is less useful than going and just doing and writing a separate spec
  133. # [01:03] <esprehn> chaals: if people implement it then it's done, if the don't then it isn't
  134. # [01:03] <esprehn> chaals: you can't force people to agree with you in a standards meeting
  135. # [01:04] <esprehn> hober: lets see what happens in implementations
  136. # [01:05] * Joins: jan_miksovsky (~jan_miksovsky@public.cloak)
  137. # [01:05] <esprehn> jan_miksovsky: the question I have is that a component's kids are just as important as its attributes
  138. # [01:06] <esprehn> jan_miksovsky: lots of components want to know when they have stuff
  139. # [01:06] <esprehn> jan_miksovsky: how do components respond to this? is there a callback?
  140. # [01:06] <esprehn> justin: polymer has "effective children changed" for actual or projected children changed (shadow dom concept)
  141. # [01:07] <esprehn> justin: we had customers who needed to know this
  142. # [01:07] * chaals wonders who is connected remotely
  143. # [01:07] <esprehn> rniwa: key question is direct children, or ones projected
  144. # [01:07] <esprehn> hayato: yeah
  145. # [01:07] <esprehn> jan_miksovsky: use cases we have us knowing final distribution changing, they want to know if there's a <slot> and what changes
  146. # [01:07] <esprehn> rniwa: so it's a shadow dom question
  147. # [01:07] <esprehn> esprehn: right since otherwise you can just use MO
  148. # [01:08] <esprehn> rniwa: yeah so talking about any projected stuff is a shadow dom question
  149. # [01:08] <esprehn> hayato: github issue about slotted change event, we think we should support it with a new MO type
  150. # [01:08] <esprehn> rniwa: we need to have either an event or a MO type
  151. # [01:08] <esprehn> rniwa: annevk do you remember?
  152. # [01:08] <esprehn> rniwa: want a new record for when a slot changes what's distributed to it
  153. # [01:08] <esprehn> Travis: is the timing nano or micro?
  154. # [01:09] <esprehn> jan_miksovsky: I don't care, today there's nothing, it's hard and brittle to do today
  155. # [01:09] <kochi2> the issue is: https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/issues/288
  156. # [01:09] <esprehn> Domenic_: yeah I think making a nicer MO api for this makes sense, with batching so insert/remove pairs don't spam
  157. # [01:10] <esprehn> annevk: MO has childList, and you can do subtree too
  158. # [01:10] <esprehn> Travis: can we use a selector?
  159. # [01:10] <esprehn> rniwa: still expensive, I don't want to do that
  160. # [01:10] <esprehn> jan_miksovsky: need something like this to be robust
  161. # [01:11] <esprehn> jan_miksovsky: I don't want something like this to get lost
  162. # [01:11] <esprehn> annevk: can you clarify?
  163. # [01:12] <esprehn> esprehn: this is for slot changing what's distributed
  164. # [01:12] * leaverou is now known as leaverou_away
  165. # [01:12] <esprehn> rniwa: you have a custom element with a kid that's a <slot>, slot doesn't generate a box by default, you want to look at the children including the slot to look at the final positions
  166. # [01:12] <esprehn> jan_miksovsky: /does example of a carousel on the whiteboard
  167. # [01:13] <esprehn> jan_miksovsky: ex. <my-carousel> and you put <img> in there, but you can also put <slot> in there, but the <my-carousel> wants to see all the <img> that go to the <slot>
  168. # [01:13] <esprehn> jan_miksovsky: getEffectiveChildren in polymer handles this
  169. # [01:14] * leaverou_away is now known as leaverou
  170. # [01:14] <esprehn> rniwa: this doesn't seem like a DOM concern
  171. # [01:14] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  172. # [01:15] <esprehn> rniwa: seems more like a box tree concern
  173. # [01:15] <justin> q+
  174. # [01:15] * Zakim sees justin on the speaker queue
  175. # [01:15] <esprehn> esprehn: no if you create a custom video element, you want the slotted <source> things to participate
  176. # [01:15] <esprehn> jan_miksovsky: yeah this is author expectation
  177. # [01:15] <esprehn> rniwa: you want to know when all slotted elements change, doesn't matter if they're invisible or what
  178. # [01:16] <esprehn> Domenic_: isn't this just solved in polymer?
  179. # [01:16] <esprehn> esprehn: at great expense
  180. # [01:16] <esprehn> rniwa: I thought it was only about boxes, but if you don't think about that and it's just any of the children changed
  181. # [01:16] <esprehn> rniwa: you just want to know when the list of nodes distributed to a slot, or any child nodes
  182. # [01:17] <esprehn> annevk: composed includes closed shadow trees?
  183. # [01:17] <esprehn> justin: no, it doesn't matter
  184. # [01:17] <esprehn> rniwa: doesn't matter, only see things outside the shadow
  185. # [01:17] <esprehn> jan_miksovsky: I hear there should really be a mutation you observe the slot with, maybe a new flag for MO
  186. # [01:17] <esprehn> annevk: maybe like the composed child list
  187. # [01:17] <esprehn> justin: not really composed, just projected children of the slot have changed
  188. # [01:18] <esprehn> rniwa: want to know when the assigned nodes changed
  189. # [01:18] <esprehn> rniwa: and deep tree as well, reuse the subtree flag
  190. # [01:18] <esprehn> hayato: shouldn't be deep
  191. # [01:19] <esprehn> rniwa: there's one level, which is know the assigned nodes to your slot, and also want to know if any of them, or any of them all the way down
  192. # [01:19] <esprehn> justin: bike shed: maybe "tall" ?
  193. # [01:19] <esprehn> *room laughs*
  194. # [01:23] <chaals> scribe: chaals
  195. # [01:23] <chaals> esprehn: You're calculating the list already
  196. # [01:23] <chaals> rniwa: no
  197. # [01:23] <Travis> esprehn and rniwa discuss implementation challenges of maintaining a list for the purposes of mutation observer.
  198. # [01:23] <chaals> justin: what if you get a simple list, and can ask for the expensive part if you need it.
  199. # [01:23] <chaals> Jan: just notify when the tree changed, and you can walk it
  200. # [01:24] <chaals> justin: needs to cover the case that something changed a few levels up in the slotting
  201. # [01:24] <chaals> esprehn: can you queue a record that the slots changed and then getComputed ?
  202. # [01:24] <chaals> … then the user can call the getComp
  203. # [01:24] <chaals> rniwa: Yes
  204. # [01:24] * leaverou is now known as leaverou_away
  205. # [01:25] <chaals> esprehn: Seems like we can do this, there is a compromise, need a bug on Mutation Observers
  206. # [01:25] <dglazkov> s/getComputed/getDistributedNodes
  207. # [01:25] <dglazkov> s/getComputed/getDistributedNodes/
  208. # [01:25] <chaals> justin: OK that it is microtask timing not nano? There will be effective children that can only be observed at microtask level
  209. # [01:25] <dglazkov> s/getComp/getDistributedNodes/
  210. # [01:25] <chaals> dglazkov: microtask is OK
  211. # [01:25] <chaals> jan_miksovsky: So make a bug for a new mutation observer?
  212. # [01:26] <chaals> rniwa: Think there is already a GH issue
  213. # [01:26] <chaals> jan_miksovsky: would tell you the slot that changed, and then you can call getDistributed…
  214. # [01:26] <rniwa> https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/issues/288
  215. # [01:26] <chaals> ^the relevant issue.
  216. # [01:26] * Joins: arronei (~arronei@public.cloak)
  217. # [01:26] <chaals> rniwa: someone should come up with a formal spec.
  218. # [01:27] <chaals> jan_miksovsky: happy to work with someone to spec it.
  219. # [01:27] <chaals> … don't want to take the task myself.
  220. # [01:27] <chaals> ACTION: jan_M to work with Hayato and spec this out
  221. # [01:27] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
  222. # [01:27] * RRSAgent records action 4
  223. # [01:27] <trackbot> Error creating an ACTION: could not connect to Tracker. Please mail <sysreq@w3.org> with details about what happened.
  224. # [01:28] <chaals> Topic: upgrade is top-down, right?
  225. # [01:28] <chaals> jan_miksovsky: when do you know your children are done parsing?
  226. # [01:28] <chaals> [you probably don't know]
  227. # [01:29] <chaals> [in v1 at least]
  228. # [01:29] <chaals> rniwa: if you use Mutation Observer, by the time you get it all the children have been upgraded
  229. # [01:30] <chaals> esprehn: We do upgrading bottom-up in innerHTML
  230. # [01:30] <chaals> Avk: what if your custom elements load midway through parsing a big document?
  231. # [01:31] <chaals> esprehn: If the definition hasn't appeared, you call a and then b you get all a then all b.
  232. # [01:31] <chaals> … in construction order
  233. # [01:31] <chaals> rniwa: That seems bad
  234. # [01:31] <chaals> … good to stick with top-down always
  235. # [01:32] <chaals> Domenic_: tend to agree
  236. # [01:32] <chaals> AvK: tree order doesn't catch things not in the tree
  237. # [01:32] <chaals> esprehn: that's why we keep a seperate list.
  238. # [01:32] <chaals> rniwa: why?
  239. # [01:32] <chaals> esprehn: consistent worldview.
  240. # [01:32] <chaals> AvK; You have createElement, then a custom element not inserted and then later you add it
  241. # [01:32] <chaals> rniwa: OK
  242. # [01:33] <chaals> [theWebIsABadWeb event]
  243. # [01:33] <chaals> rniwa: Think we should be consistent - keep creation order everywhere then.
  244. # [01:34] <chaals> esprehn: attach/detach are in tree order…
  245. # [01:34] <chaals> rniwa: you need to spec that way.
  246. # [01:34] <chaals> esprehn: polymer wanted upgrades bottom-up so we did that instead.
  247. # [01:34] <chaals> … and now we ended up all creation order.
  248. # [01:34] <chaals> RESOLUTION: we remember why we have the spec the way it is.
  249. # [01:35] <chaals> Rationale: You can't make it work if you don't have creation order, and consistency is good.
  250. # [01:35] <chaals> ACTION: domenic to document stack of queues and ordering
  251. # [01:35] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
  252. # [01:35] * RRSAgent records action 5
  253. # [01:35] <trackbot> Error creating an ACTION: could not connect to Tracker. Please mail <sysreq@w3.org> with details about what happened.
  254. # [01:36] <chaals> Topic: Shadow DOM Styling
  255. # [01:36] <kochi2> #316
  256. # [01:36] <kochi2> https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/issues/316
  257. # [01:36] <chaals> Kochi: think this is a problem of updating order of style comoing from different shadow trees
  258. # [01:36] <chaals> … we agree prioriity of rules is tree of tree order of shadow trees
  259. # [01:37] <chaals> … remaining point is bug 315 - how do we handle style attributes
  260. # [01:37] <kochi2> s/315/316/
  261. # [01:37] <chaals> esprehn: Where in the order it comes?
  262. # [01:37] <chaals> … didn't we agree with Tab on this?
  263. # [01:38] <chaals> LJW: at the last meeting
  264. # [01:38] <rniwa> Two test cases: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/2515
  265. # [01:38] <chaals> hober: No longer see any disagreement in the issue
  266. # [01:38] <chaals> [jan_miksovsky leaves]
  267. # [01:39] <chaals> Kochi in the webplatform tests I put some tests. I implemented to follow the option 2 in the github bug.
  268. # [01:39] <chaals> … if everyone agrees on that approach, we are good.
  269. # [01:39] <rniwa> Here's the test case: http://w3c-test.org/shadow-dom/styles/shadow-cascade-order.html
  270. # [01:39] <chaals> hayato: basically this means current vs new implementation. Unless there is a strong objection we should adopt option 2.
  271. # [01:40] * Quits: jan_miksovsky (~jan_miksovsky@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  272. # [01:40] <chaals> … if the test cases are unacceptable, please object.
  273. # [01:40] <chaals> rniwa: proposal is to do option 2?
  274. # [01:41] <chaals> … we pass everything except a slotted we don't implement yet.
  275. # [01:42] <chaals> [taken offline]
  276. # [01:42] <chaals> agenda+ beer
  277. # [01:42] * Zakim notes agendum 4 added
  278. # [01:42] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@public.cloak) (sicking)
  279. # [01:42] <chaals> Topic: Imports
  280. # [01:43] <chaals> Domenic_: Make them ES6. Awesome.
  281. # [01:43] <chaals> [But it was DMitri's idea]
  282. # [01:43] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@public.cloak)
  283. # [01:43] <chaals> esprehn: we want to drop style
  284. # [01:43] <chaals> justin: we want the scripts to run
  285. # [01:43] <chaals> Domenic_: not in the same doc
  286. # [01:44] <chaals> justin: There should be a registry
  287. # [01:44] <chaals> TOpic: registry
  288. # [01:44] <chaals> rniwa: not sure why mutliple documents need to share the registry
  289. # [01:44] <chaals> Domenic_: yeah Eliot doesn't like that either
  290. # [01:44] <chaals> esprehn: came from a debate about author expectation
  291. # [01:45] <chaals> … if imports don't share the same registry it produces undesirable behaviour - you can't share things across your imports. The rest of the sharing is consistency that I think is confusing - you cannot escape the registry.
  292. # [01:45] <chaals> AvK: if iframe scrdoc and the registry doesn't cross that would be sad
  293. # [01:45] <chaals> esprehn: It doesn't - thats a different window
  294. # [01:46] <chaals> rniwa: It would be nice to be able to use a registry, not be stuck with one
  295. # [01:46] * Joins: rictic (~rictic@public.cloak)
  296. # [01:46] <chaals> dglazkov: should be a v2
  297. # [01:46] <chaals> esprehn: want to scale bakc- you don't share registry unless you ask for it
  298. # [01:46] <chaals> Domenic_: should that be in v1 or can we start out with unshared registry all the time
  299. # [01:47] <chaals> AvK; if you do shared registry you get global pollution
  300. # [01:47] <chaals> esprehn: there was one registry for everything. That's not nice - e.g. upgrades run on XHR'ed stuff.
  301. # [01:47] <chaals> … so it is on some docs
  302. # [01:47] <chaals> rniwa: yeah. Which is confusing.
  303. # [01:47] <chaals> … my preference is not to do any of this stuff.
  304. # [01:47] <chaals> … one registry per document
  305. # [01:48] <chaals> dglazkov: That's OK
  306. # [01:48] <chaals> … if we get HTML modules we'll need a registry API.
  307. # [01:48] <chaals> rniwa: if we get a simple registry API we can have one. Until then you cannot have nice things.
  308. # [01:48] <chaals> Travis: would it reflect structures?
  309. # [01:49] <chaals> dglazkov: n argument for doing this in v1, if you had register.set you don't need defineElement
  310. # [01:50] <chaals> RESOLUTION: no sharing of registries in v1.
  311. # [01:50] * Quits: LJWatson (~LJWatson@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
  312. # [01:51] * Quits: Travis (~Travis@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
  313. # [01:51] * Quits: rniwa (~textual@public.cloak) ("My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…")
  314. # [01:51] * Quits: plh (plehegar@public.cloak) ("Leaving")
  315. # [01:52] <chaals> Thanks scribes, many thanks apple for hosting, [adjourned]
  316. # [01:52] * Quits: chaals (~Adium@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
  317. # [01:52] * Joins: cdata (~cdata@public.cloak)
  318. # [01:56] * Quits: monica (~monica@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  319. # [01:57] * Quits: arronei (~arronei@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  320. # [01:58] * Quits: justin (~justin@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  321. # [01:59] * Quits: cdata (~cdata@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
  322. # [02:11] * leaverou_away is now known as leaverou
  323. # [02:14] * Quits: bicknellr (~bicknellr@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
  324. # [02:17] * Quits: jsbell (~jsbell@public.cloak) ("There's no place like home...")
  325. # [02:17] * Quits: kochi2 (~Adium@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  326. # [02:22] * leaverou is now known as leaverou_away
  327. # [02:22] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  328. # [02:23] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak)
  329. # [02:28] * Joins: kochi2 (~Adium@public.cloak)
  330. # [02:30] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  331. # [02:31] * Quits: rictic (~rictic@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
  332. # [02:33] * Quits: kochi2 (~Adium@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  333. # [02:46] * Joins: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak)
  334. # [02:58] * Quits: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak) ("Snuggling with the puppies")
  335. # [03:08] * Joins: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak)
  336. # [03:11] * Quits: smaug (~chatzilla@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  337. # [03:20] * Quits: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak) ("Snuggling with the puppies")
  338. # [03:25] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@public.cloak) (sicking)
  339. # [03:28] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak)
  340. # [03:31] * Joins: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak)
  341. # [03:56] * leaverou_away is now known as leaverou
  342. # [03:57] * Quits: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak) ("Snuggling with the puppies")
  343. # [04:06] * Quits: geheimnis` (~geheimnis@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  344. # [04:08] * Joins: geheimnis` (~geheimnis@public.cloak)
  345. # [04:13] * leaverou is now known as leaverou_away
  346. # [04:33] * Joins: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak)
  347. # [04:39] * Quits: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak) ("Snuggling with the puppies")
  348. # [05:14] * Joins: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak)
  349. # [06:08] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  350. # [06:09] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak)
  351. # [06:16] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  352. # [06:38] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
  353. # [07:07] * Quits: decadance (~decadance@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  354. # [07:17] * Joins: decadance (~decadance@public.cloak)
  355. # [07:26] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@public.cloak)
  356. # [07:37] * Quits: decadance (~decadance@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  357. # [07:44] * Joins: decadance (~decadance@public.cloak)
  358. # [08:21] <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, make minutes
  359. # [08:21] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/26-webapps-minutes.html MikeSmith
  360. # [08:21] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  361. # [08:22] <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, make logs public
  362. # [08:22] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, MikeSmith
  363. # [08:23] <MikeSmith> i/without it authors/scribe: esprehn
  364. # [08:23] <MikeSmith> i/without it authors/scribenick: esprehn
  365. # [08:23] <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, make logs public
  366. # [08:23] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, MikeSmith
  367. # [08:23] <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, make minutes
  368. # [08:23] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/26-webapps-minutes.html MikeSmith
  369. # [08:41] <MikeSmith> Present: Domenic_Denicola Takayoshi_Kochi Leonie_Watson Travis_Leithead AnneVK Arron_Eicholz Chaals Dimitri_Glazkov Elliott_Sprehn Hayato_Ito Ted_OConnor Jan_Miksovsky Justin_Fagnani Ryosuke_Niwa
  370. # [08:41] <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, make minutes
  371. # [08:41] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/26-webapps-minutes.html MikeSmith
  372. # [08:42] <MikeSmith> Meeting: Custom Elements discussion
  373. # [08:42] <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, make minutes
  374. # [08:42] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/26-webapps-minutes.html MikeSmith
  375. # [08:45] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
  376. # [09:21] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@public.cloak) (sicking)
  377. # [09:21] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak)
  378. # [09:30] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  379. # [09:42] * Joins: dom (dom@public.cloak)
  380. # [09:45] * Quits: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak) ("Snuggling with the puppies")
  381. # [10:04] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak)
  382. # [10:11] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  383. # [10:29] * Joins: wilsonpage (~wilsonpage@public.cloak)
  384. # [11:20] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  385. # [12:14] * leaverou_away is now known as leaverou
  386. # [12:20] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  387. # [12:23] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  388. # [12:23] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  389. # [12:24] * leaverou is now known as leaverou_away
  390. # [12:25] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak)
  391. # [12:26] * Joins: marcosc_ (~marcosc@public.cloak)
  392. # [12:26] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  393. # [12:55] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  394. # [13:10] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
  395. # [13:19] * leaverou_away is now known as leaverou
  396. # [13:29] * leaverou is now known as leaverou_away
  397. # [13:49] * Quits: marcosc_ (~marcosc@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  398. # [14:28] * Joins: smaug (~chatzilla@public.cloak)
  399. # [14:55] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  400. # [15:21] * Joins: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak)
  401. # [15:21] * Quits: wilsonpage (~wilsonpage@public.cloak) ("My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…")
  402. # [15:23] * Quits: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak) ("Snuggling with the puppies")
  403. # [15:30] * Quits: flaki (~sid26072@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  404. # [15:30] * Quits: slightlyoff (~sid1768@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  405. # [15:30] * Quits: tyoshino (~sid19222@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  406. # [15:30] * Quits: ebryn (~sid2895@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  407. # [15:30] * Quits: Josh_Soref (~sid4015@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  408. # [15:30] * Quits: dstockwell (~sid40369@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  409. # [15:30] * Quits: koji (~sid53200@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  410. # [15:30] * Quits: hayato (~sid20728@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  411. # [15:31] * Quits: timeless (~sid4015@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  412. # [15:31] * Quits: Domenic_ (~sid10976@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  413. # [15:31] * Quits: mkwst (~sid395@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  414. # [15:31] * Quits: JakeA (~sid3836@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  415. # [15:31] * Quits: ojan (~sid5519@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  416. # [15:31] * Quits: othree (~sid16133@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  417. # [15:31] * Quits: dfreedm (~sid7859@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  418. # [15:31] * Quits: pdr (~sid7901@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  419. # [15:31] * Quits: scheib (~sid4467@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  420. # [15:31] * Quits: dglazkov (~sid4270@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  421. # [15:31] * Quits: ElijahLynn (~sid21431@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  422. # [15:31] * Quits: dcooney (~sid20727@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  423. # [15:31] * Quits: jkomoros (~sid7860@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  424. # [15:31] * Quits: adrianba (~sid55164@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  425. # [15:31] * Quits: TabAtkins (~sid11559@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  426. # [15:31] * Quits: sangwhan (~sid12645@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  427. # [15:31] * Quits: cwilso (~sid10206@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  428. # [15:31] * Quits: esprehn (~sid10445@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  429. # [15:31] * Quits: krit (~sid15081@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  430. # [15:32] * Quits: tobie (~sid5692@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  431. # [15:32] * Joins: dstockwell (~sid40369@public.cloak)
  432. # [15:32] * Joins: ebryn (~sid2895@public.cloak)
  433. # [15:32] * Joins: flaki (~sid26072@public.cloak)
  434. # [15:32] * Joins: tyoshino (~sid19222@public.cloak)
  435. # [15:32] * Joins: Josh_Soref (~sid4015@public.cloak)
  436. # [15:32] * Joins: koji (~sid53200@public.cloak)
  437. # [15:32] * Joins: JakeA (~sid3836@public.cloak)
  438. # [15:32] * Joins: othree (~sid16133@public.cloak)
  439. # [15:32] * Joins: Domenic_ (~sid10976@public.cloak)
  440. # [15:32] * Joins: mkwst (~sid395@public.cloak)
  441. # [15:32] * Joins: hayato (~sid20728@public.cloak)
  442. # [15:32] * Joins: pdr (~sid7901@public.cloak)
  443. # [15:32] * Joins: ojan (~sid5519@public.cloak)
  444. # [15:32] * Joins: dfreedm (~sid7859@public.cloak)
  445. # [15:32] * Joins: slightlyoff (~sid1768@public.cloak)
  446. # [15:33] * Joins: scheib (~sid4467@public.cloak)
  447. # [15:33] * Joins: dglazkov (~sid4270@public.cloak)
  448. # [15:33] * Joins: timeless (~sid4015@public.cloak)
  449. # [15:33] * Joins: dcooney (~sid20727@public.cloak)
  450. # [15:33] * Joins: jkomoros (~sid7860@public.cloak)
  451. # [15:33] * Joins: ElijahLynn (~sid21431@public.cloak)
  452. # [15:33] * Joins: TabAtkins (~sid11559@public.cloak)
  453. # [15:33] * Joins: adrianba (~sid55164@public.cloak)
  454. # [15:33] * Joins: esprehn (~sid10445@public.cloak)
  455. # [15:33] * Joins: sangwhan (~sid12645@public.cloak)
  456. # [15:33] * Joins: krit (~sid15081@public.cloak)
  457. # [15:34] * Joins: cwilso (~sid10206@public.cloak)
  458. # [15:34] * Joins: tobie (~sid5692@public.cloak)
  459. # [15:55] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
  460. # [16:01] * Joins: wilsonpage (~wilsonpage@public.cloak)
  461. # [16:03] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  462. # [16:06] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  463. # [16:07] * leaverou_away is now known as leaverou
  464. # [16:09] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  465. # [16:18] * leaverou is now known as leaverou_away
  466. # [16:28] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  467. # [16:56] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
  468. # [17:04] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  469. # [17:08] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
  470. # [17:22] * shepazu_ is now known as shepazu
  471. # [17:29] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  472. # [17:29] * leaverou_away is now known as leaverou
  473. # [17:39] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  474. # [17:51] * Joins: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak)
  475. # [18:02] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
  476. # [18:06] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  477. # [18:30] * Joins: chaals (~Adium@public.cloak)
  478. # [18:36] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@public.cloak)
  479. # [18:40] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
  480. # [18:47] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  481. # [18:51] * Joins: jsbell (~jsbell@public.cloak)
  482. # [18:52] * Quits: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak) ("Snuggling with the puppies")
  483. # [19:00] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  484. # [19:19] * Quits: dom (dom@public.cloak) ("")
  485. # [19:30] * leaverou is now known as leaverou_away
  486. # [19:31] * leaverou_away is now known as leaverou
  487. # [19:36] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  488. # [19:40] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
  489. # [19:42] * wilsonpage is now known as wilsonpage-away
  490. # [19:48] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  491. # [19:49] * leaverou is now known as leaverou_away
  492. # [19:59] * wilsonpage-away is now known as wilsonpage
  493. # [20:10] * Quits: wilsonpage (~wilsonpage@public.cloak) ("My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…")
  494. # [20:31] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  495. # [20:41] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
  496. # [20:49] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  497. # [20:50] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@public.cloak) (sicking)
  498. # [20:58] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak) (tantek)
  499. # [21:07] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  500. # [21:21] * Quits: chaals (~Adium@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
  501. # [21:30] * Joins: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak)
  502. # [21:43] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
  503. # [21:50] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  504. # [22:01] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  505. # [22:35] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@public.cloak)
  506. # [22:36] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  507. # [22:44] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
  508. # [22:51] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  509. # [22:51] * Joins: rniwa (~textual@public.cloak)
  510. # [22:55] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@public.cloak)
  511. # [22:55] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
  512. # [23:03] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak) (tantek)
  513. # [23:14] * Joins: chaals (~Adium@public.cloak)
  514. # [23:21] <sicking> annevk: my FAQ says that .withCredentials affects how set-cookie headers on the response is handled, no?
  515. # [23:21] <annevk> yeah, I removed my reply there
  516. # [23:22] <sicking> annevk: also, did your comment get deleted? I see the email but nothing con github.com
  517. # [23:22] <annevk> I got confused by the paragraph above
  518. # [23:22] <sicking> annevk: ah, cool
  519. # [23:22] <sicking> annevk: would you be interested to try to add some of this stuff to the spec?
  520. # [23:23] <annevk> I guess I can integrate your justification into https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#http-cors-protocol somehow, yes
  521. # [23:23] <annevk> let me file a bug so I don't forget
  522. # [23:23] <sicking> annevk: i think I also missed the question timbl was actually asking, which is "why is .withCredentials needed?"
  523. # [23:23] <sicking> annevk: let me know if I can help
  524. # [23:24] <annevk> Note that some stuff is explained: https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#basic-safe-cors-protocol-setup
  525. # [23:24] <annevk> but not a whole lot admittedly
  526. # [23:25] <sicking> yeah. It might be worth having some form of FAQ so people can find this stuff too. I'm not sure
  527. # [23:25] <sicking> most people aren't going to read the whole spec though
  528. # [23:25] <sicking> so if we put something in there it needs to be findable
  529. # [23:31] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  530. # [23:44] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
  531. # [23:52] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  532. # Session Close: Wed Jan 27 00:00:01 2016

Previous day, Next day

Think these logs are useful? Then please donate to show your gratitude (and keep them up, of course). Thanks! — Krijn