/irc-logs / freenode / #webplatform / 2012-10-15 / end

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1. # Session Start: Mon Oct 15 00:00:00 2012
2. # Session Ident: #webplatform
3. # [00:01] <lampe2> o0
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19. # [00:53] <@Garbee> Commenting on questions is now enabled in the Q&A!
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21. # [00:57] <lampe2> what i dont get why is getting everything down voted...
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23. # [00:58] <Damianz> people are mean
24. # [00:59] <@Garbee> Define everything please.
25. # [00:59] <lampe2> i dont mean everything but there are a lot questions that got a minus infront of the number i think this is not fair
26. # [01:00] <lampe2> today it is better but some days ago it was more minus then plus
27. # [01:00] <@Garbee> lampe2, It will get better.
28. # [01:00] <@Garbee> I actually just had a discussion on this.
29. # [01:00] <lampe2> Garbee, ihope so
30. # [01:00] <@Garbee> It is partially from the initial buzz of traffic.
31. # [01:01] <@Garbee> People just being silly or whatever.
32. # [01:01] <@Garbee> Now, or within a few days, most traffic will be from people trying to contribute, since the buzz is dieing down.
33. # [01:01] <lampe2> yeah thats maybe the problem
34. # [01:01] <@Garbee> So the SNR will decrease along with increasing accuracy on things like voting.
35. # [01:01] <lampe2> i hope so ! i think its a great project
36. # [01:01] <@Garbee> Yea. It is just time.
37. # [01:02] <@Garbee> Then in a few months once the docs improve, people will find us again somehow and then hopefully traffic will remain great for developers/designers wanting docs.
38. # [01:02] <phwd> Always thought questions were down voted because they were noise
39. # [01:02] <@Garbee> Nah.
40. # [01:02] <@Garbee> People downvote because they have nothing better to do.
41. # [01:02] <@Garbee> Some are for being noise or out of place.
42. # [01:02] <@Garbee> Honestly, that is where you flag.
43. # [01:03] <phwd> Then what is a downvote to be used for then?
44. # [01:03] <@Garbee> People just didn't know how to use the system properly a few days ago. Now we are starting to get things organized and things like the Q&A FAQ in place.
45. # [01:03] * Quits: tisch (~methalol@p4FFA2EA9.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: tisch)
46. # [01:03] <@Garbee> downvote = something you don't agree with for an answer. For a question the downvote should be used really only when it is a request or something and you agree or disagree.
47. # [01:04] <@Garbee> Or you could downvote the question because it is too vague.
48. # [01:04] <@Garbee> *cough* one I recently approved *cough*
49. # [01:04] <@Garbee> Well, you won't know that part, but it is the one on "A good and free web design program for Mac OS"
50. # [01:04] * Damianz downvotes downvoting
51. # [01:05] <@Garbee> Downvoting has its place, people just need to not use it stupidly.
52. # [01:05] <@Garbee> Some were even saying to downvote and flag spam or offtopic stuff. no no no, just flag. The downvote is nothing and just a waste of time.
53. # [01:05] <phwd> How would they know not to use it *stupidly* if there is no tooltip explaining the purpose of a down vote @_@
54. # [01:06] <@Garbee> Well, it is more common sense.
55. # [01:06] <@Garbee> People are trying to get some rules in place though to explain it.
56. # [01:06] <Damianz> This is the internet, common sense is rejected at the firewall.
57. # [01:06] <phwd> It cannot be common sense @_@ votes are a subjective action unless there is clarification
58. # [01:07] * phwd watches reddit
59. # [01:07] <@Garbee> I'm not dealing *too* much with Q&A at this time outside of modding, so I'm not really directly involved in that stuff since I'm leaving it to those that want to put their effort in that part.
60. # [01:07] <@Garbee> Tomato coming to mind.
61. # [01:07] <@Garbee> phwd, Well, it seems to be common sense to Tomato and myself... Not sure about the rest of humanity.
62. # [01:08] <@Garbee> But I agree, people do need to be told what purpose things serve.
63. # [01:08] <@Garbee> But with the big buzz down, it shouldn't be a major issue again until people start visiting again.
64. # [01:08] <@Garbee> I think that will be the true test of what we get done in between now and then.
65. # [01:08] * lampe2 is looking into concepts -> mobile web
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67. # [01:09] <@Garbee> I have a little laundry list.
68. # [01:09] <@Garbee> Dev tools is at the top though.
69. # [01:10] <lampe2> haha
70. # [01:10] <leaverou> I got some mentions here but my stupid client (Colloquy) doesn't go that far back. If anyone could let me know again, I'd be grateful. Thanks!
71. # [01:11] <lampe2> Garbee, look http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/concepts/Detecting_device_and_browser and then "Server-side detection"
72. # [01:11] <@Garbee> leaverou, It was just a mis-mention I think.
73. # [01:11] <leaverou> Garbee: I heard the sound multiple successive times
74. # [01:11] <@Garbee> It was someone trying to say hello to one person, but accidentally autocompleted your name by mistake.
75. # [01:11] <leaverou> ah ok
76. # [01:11] <leaverou> thanks
77. # [01:11] <@Garbee> I can go check then. Roughly what time frame should I start at?
78. # [01:13] <@Garbee> lampe2, Yea, what about it?
79. # [01:13] <lampe2> Garbee, there is a js framework that does it
80. # [01:13] <lampe2> device.js and this does what we talked about
81. # [01:13] <@Garbee> Ah
82. # [01:13] <@Garbee> I still don't like the JS approach.
83. # [01:14] <@Garbee> But, that is me being nit-picky.
84. # [01:14] <Damianz> Solution; make browsers send headers about the client so it can be done server side... in reality the info sent is crud so meh
85. # [01:15] <@Garbee> leaverou, Yea, only the one mistype is in my logs from today.
86. # [01:15] <leaverou> cool, thx
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88. # [01:16] <@Garbee> Damianz, That is why you send good info about resolution(s) if it were to be integrated that way.
89. # [01:16] <@Garbee> A browser could get that info easily and add it to a header.
90. # [01:16] <@Garbee> But we thought of other problems with that solution.
91. # [01:17] <Damianz> You could do a crap version of setting a cookie (oh wait, we're banned from using those) and forcing a refresh on the first load which switches from client side in js to server side then do some if stuff changes update logic... oh wow that's going to hurt later though
92. # [01:17] <Damianz> Also boo to idiots preventing adding state to a stateless protocol
93. # [01:18] <@Garbee> ugh, force reload on first entry, sounds stupid to me.
94. # [01:19] <Damianz> it's currently the only real way to handle high res images for the new mbps afaik and yeah sucks... this is why I have guys that love making shiny so I don't have to care, just complain about suckness =D
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98. # [01:28] <lampe2> its hard to get a website runing on every resolution
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101. # [01:29] <lampe2> what would be cool for mobile if the browser would have some sort of default theme and you only must send the xml or json to them
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103. # [01:31] <lampe2> ehhh iam just a dreamer
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105. # [01:43] <__chris> i'd like that lampe2
106. # [01:45] <lampe2> __chris, yes but all vendors must do it then and this would be the hardest way besides there must be a standart how the json and xml look and we got this all ready its html :)
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113. # [01:53] <__chris> you could just make a simple json object browser
114. # [01:53] <__chris> dont need no vendors
115. # [01:55] * cpg|away is now known as cpg
116. # [01:56] <lampe2> __chris, i could :D
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119. # [01:57] <__chris> i'd help you if i was any good objective
120. # [01:59] <lampe2> __chris, right now iam working on a project to make elearning courses in the browser and save them as xml or json so that it could be converted to every format :)
121. # [02:00] <__chris> nice, how is it coming along? I hear elearning will be big...
122. # [02:01] <lampe2> __chris, its in the earlie stage... we are looking for the best way to store the data cause we wanne make it so that you can tag everything with meta tags and then search for it and when you need it you could refernce it to a other course and so on
123. # [02:01] <lampe2> we are only 2 guys right now more manpower is needed
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126. # [02:09] <__chris> sounds difficult
127. # [02:09] <__chris> :)
128. # [02:09] <lampe2> __chris, yes it is :D
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162. # [03:18] <arkhi> Good morning!
163. # [03:19] <Ordona> Morning arkhi
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166. # [03:21] <DeviaVir> Good.. night? 3am here
167. # [03:22] <arkhi> Would “Good day” work with anything?
168. # [03:22] <DeviaVir> :) Would for me
169. # [03:22] <@Garbee> Good {morning,afternoon,evening,night} is most accurate for IRC>
170. # [03:23] <DeviaVir> Haha, invalid json
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172. # [03:23] <@Garbee> Only if your IRC log is retarted and stores information that gets interpreted.
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174. # [03:24] <DeviaVir> Well, that went from nice to rude real quick didn't it
175. # [03:24] <@Garbee> It is only rude to bad IRC clients.
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177. # [03:24] <DeviaVir> I was actually joking
178. # [03:24] <@Garbee> Because every other client is laughing at them.
179. # [03:24] <DeviaVir> but that's okay
180. # [03:25] <@Garbee> ;)
181. # [03:25] <DeviaVir> I don't know of any IRC's that interpret JSON
182. # [03:25] <DeviaVir> did JSON exist in the IRC time? :P
183. # [03:25] <@Garbee> I hope none exist, but if we see them on the playground can we kick them?
184. # [03:25] <DeviaVir> be my guest
185. # [03:25] <arkhi> Goood (morning|afternoon|evening|night)
186. # [03:25] <@Garbee> It exists now, that is all that matters.
187. # [03:25] <DeviaVir> :)!
188. # [03:25] <@Garbee> Good*
189. # [03:25] <@Garbee> ;)
190. # [03:26] <arkhi> Garbee: Let’s be open to anything, you’re right.
191. # [03:26] <arkhi> It might be tea time o’clock somewhere.
192. # [03:26] <@Garbee> Not always...
193. # [03:26] <@Garbee> Ok then:
194. # [03:26] <@Garbee> Good *
195. # [03:26] <@Garbee> Problem solved.
196. # [03:26] <Ordona> At one point, there was an idea of "International greeting time" for IRC: user enter = morning, user leave = night
197. # [03:27] <arkhi> Next time, I will start with “Salutations!”
198. # [03:27] <arkhi> Problem solved.
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202. # [03:27] <Ordona> That works
203. # [03:27] <@Garbee> I honestly tend to just avoid greetings all together.
204. # [03:28] <@Garbee> This is the only room I do it in, and that is only for politeness.
205. # [03:28] <DeviaVir> I like that one Ordona
206. # [03:28] <@Garbee> I may even stop with regulars and only do it for new nicks I see.
207. # [03:28] <Ordona> Er sorry, "universal greeting time"
208. # [03:29] <@Garbee> Well, my list of emails I wanted to do today went from three to one, and that one is out. :)
209. # [03:29] <@Garbee> And already getting some feedback too.
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211. # [03:31] <DeviaVir> Hm, what do you do for work Garbee?
212. # [03:31] <@Garbee> "Freelance" computer work.
213. # [03:33] <DeviaVir> "Freelance", huh? Sounds.. cool ;)
214. # [03:33] <Ian__> Hi there. I'm wanting to just jump in and edit the wiki. What about the html/validation sub-topic? Can I just go in there, explain what validation is, put up a link to the W3C validator, and let that be a bit of help?
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217. # [03:34] <lampe2> Ian__, just edit :) there are a history on every articel so if you mess it up it can be cleand ;)
218. # [03:35] <Ian__> Excellent. Hope you're doing well.
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222. # [03:39] <@Garbee> Ian__, Please do read the Getting Started guide though if you haven't already.
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224. # [03:39] <@Garbee> Also, please converse: http://talk.webplatform.org/forums/index.php/2227/should-we-be-flagging-duplicate-answers
225. # [03:39] <@Garbee> (In the Q&A please so it is all together.)
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227. # [03:42] <Ian__> I'll do that. Thanks.
228. # [03:44] <@Garbee> I actually think validation may do better as one page to cover HTML and CSS. That way each are covered on one page.
229. # [03:45] <arkhi> Garbee: You mean “concept/validation”?
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231. # [03:45] <@Garbee> arkhi, Thinking so yea.
232. # [03:45] <arkhi> I agree.
233. # [03:45] <@Garbee> I'm looking in there now trying to figure out where best to place it.
234. # [03:45] <arkhi> I think there was a similar discussion about this recently…
235. # [03:45] <@Garbee> Validation is nothing HTML specific and it shares almost all the same info with CSS. So it trims down content duplication.
236. # [03:45] <arkhi> about a different topic.
237. # [03:45] <arkhi> Can’t put my finger on it though.
238. # [03:46] <arkhi> true Garbee
239. # [03:46] <@Garbee> We have had two or three conversations on content placement today.
240. # [03:46] <@Garbee> Always the same thing... Where do we put it?
241. # [03:47] <@Garbee> The only real difference between the two concepts is outcome. In HTML you want valid output. In CSS achieving it is mostly counter-productive since you are going to use things that aren't standard. (vendor prefixes)
242. # [03:47] <@Garbee> So that is a note to make on the page, otherwise they all share the same concept.
243. # [03:48] <mike5w3c> Garbee: I don't think doing CSS validation is counter productive
244. # [03:49] <arkhi> Well… concept/validation, with specific topics to html/validation for the cases you just mentioned, and if the content is enough to be useful on a separate page.
245. # [03:49] <mike5w3c> the maintainers of the CSS validator have added a lot of CSS3 support to the validator this year
246. # [03:49] <@Garbee> I think it should be done, but final code will tend to be invalid. Just when validating remove vendor prefixes.
247. # [03:49] <@Garbee> http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/guides/html_validation --already exists actually.
248. # [03:50] <mike5w3c> the CSS validator has a user option that lets you choose between having vendor prefixed properties treated as warnings instead of errors
249. # [03:50] <@Garbee> Ah, ok. I haven't seen that actually.
250. # [03:50] <arkhi> Garbee: What if vendor prefixes were generating warning instead of errors? That would already help CSS validation to be less scary / noisy. :)
251. # [03:50] <arkhi> (but that’s off topic, OK)
252. # [03:50] <Ian__> Okay, yeah, I was looking at the html page, and at the huge table of topics. html/validation was there, and when you go to it, there's nothing on the page.
253. # [03:50] <@Garbee> arkhi, On topic actually.
254. # [03:50] <@Garbee> Yea, that switch makes it much better then.
255. # [03:51] <@Garbee> Having them as errors scares people from using them if they care about validation. That will make "real" errors much more prevelent in the output, making the validator that much more useful.
256. # [03:52] <mike5w3c> there are still some bugs in the CSS validator for lack of support for some CSS3 features; e.g., it doesn't know about "marker" and "leader" and some other things. If you run into those, please file bugs
257. # [03:52] <@Garbee> Real in quotes since vendor prefixes should be errors because it is retarded that we have so many.
258. # [03:52] <arkhi> Garbee: This is more of a topic about Standards and their implementation than documenting them…
259. # [03:52] <@Garbee> arkhi, We will be documenting it at some point.
260. # [03:52] <@Garbee> It is good information for developers to have.
261. # [03:52] <arkhi> Fair enough. :)
262. # [03:53] <@Garbee> mike5w3c, Thanks for bringing that to my attention, I didn't know that switch has been added. Which makes it so much more useful to me now.
263. # [03:53] <mike5w3c> also if you're going to have the page point a URL for a the markup validator, please point it to http://validator.w3.org/nu/ instead of http://validator.w3.org
264. # [03:53] <mike5w3c> Garbee: yeah that switch was just added a few months ago I think
265. # [03:53] <@Garbee> Noted. If I see any links for it I will update them.
266. # [03:54] <arkhi> mike5w3c: Wouldn’t it be better to archive the old one and keep the http://validator.w3.org/ for the latest version?
267. # [03:54] <@Garbee> Ok, that would be why. I haven't validated CSS since like February due to vendor prefixes clogging up the error output.
268. # [03:54] <mike5w3c> arkhi: yeah we're going to do that eventually, but not there yet. If it were up to me we would have already. But it's not just up to me.
269. # [03:55] <@Garbee> I would squash some more of those bugs before putting that one in the spotlight.
270. # [03:55] <arkhi> Understood.
271. # [03:55] <@Garbee> #css topic might need an update soon...
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274. # [04:00] <Bankzilla> Anyone know of a horizontal accordion that can fill up an entire page dynamically (height)? everything seems to run of fixed dimensions.
275. # [04:01] <@Garbee> #web might be a good place to ask that one. Although I would assume you could just build one on percentages.
276. # [04:02] <Bankzilla> Would like to see if there is already one out there with good computability before I start building one :)
277. # [04:06] * @Garbee is knee deep in bug reports. Sorry.
278. # [04:06] <@Garbee> btw, have I mentioned my hatred of bugzilla in here yet?
279. # [04:07] <mdel> Garbee: it was assumed :)
280. # [04:07] <@Garbee> Why is it when I submit a change I get redirected to a random bug?
281. # [04:08] <mdel> no idea, maybe it assumes you are trying to power through a bunch of them?
282. # [04:08] <arkhi> Garbee: Agreed; this is very confusing.
283. # [04:09] <@Garbee> I'm trying to work on it. The problem is it isn't moving for a while so we need to just put up with it. Even if it moves onto the webplatform domain it may stay bugzilla for familiarity reasons.
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320. # [05:37] * paul_irish changes topic to 'Support and conversation about webplatform.org • FAQ: http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:FAQ • logs: http://talk.webplatform.org/chatlogs • bugs: http://goo.gl/bTTpT'
321. # [05:37] <@paul_irish> wpdbot: hi
322. # [05:38] <@Garbee> Paul, could this be one that we add to the todo list for people to do if they feel like it? https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=19265
323. # [05:38] <@Garbee> I'm not quite sure, it looks like we could.
324. # [05:39] <@paul_irish> that's like a bulk operation
325. # [05:39] <@paul_irish> isnt it?
326. # [05:39] <@Garbee> Not sure, haven't actually looked at the meta page.
327. # [05:40] <@Garbee> Let me go take a look.
328. # [05:40] <@Garbee> I can't even find the meta page.
329. # [05:40] <@Garbee> well namespace.
330. # [05:41] <@Garbee> ah, http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/Meta:HTML/Elements
331. # [05:42] <@Garbee> I'm not sure how you would script that without building full AI. Which at that point we are just asking to be killed off by our creations.
332. # [05:43] <@Garbee> I'd say we could look at doing it automatically somehow, if not then just break the content into chunks and everyone just grab one and cover it.
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334. # [05:43] <@Garbee> So yea, not for the todo list.
335. # [05:44] <@paul_irish> looking at this i dont undersatnd what the bug means
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337. # [05:44] <@paul_irish> gosh i want to applpy a stylesheet to the bug tracker
338. # [05:45] <@Garbee> It means, if I am understanding correctly, looking through the content in that Meta:HTML namespace like http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/Meta:HTML/Elements and comparing it to what was imported by the bots from other networks in the normal html/ pages like http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/html/elements
339. # [05:45] <@paul_irish> Garbee: i gotta work on a talk tonight
340. # [05:45] <@Garbee> Find any missing information and import.
341. # [05:45] <@paul_irish> ill catch up with you tmw
342. # [05:46] <@paul_irish> (ah i see)
343. # [05:46] <@Garbee> Alright, I was just wondering on that one bug.
344. # [05:46] <@paul_irish> cool cool
345. # [05:46] <@paul_irish> yup
346. # [05:46] <@Garbee> Thanks.
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356. # [06:22] <Mecil9> hi guys
357. # [06:28] <@Garbee> Hello.
358. # [06:29] <@Garbee> Is there anything we can help you with? Or at lest try to.
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382. # [07:44] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Ryan_Lane
383. # [07:44] * @Garbee starts giving away hair.
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386. # [07:53] <arkhi> There, here are some of mine…
387. # [07:53] <arkhi> Organising the wiki?
388. # [07:53] * Joins: barneybook_work (~Thunderbi@220.132.177.78)
389. # [07:53] <@Garbee> Nah, cleaning the Q&A DB a bit.
390. # [07:53] <@Garbee> By actually deleting hidden posts.
391. # [07:53] <@Garbee> 90 minutes so far working on it.
392. # [07:54] <@Garbee> :/ Still not odne.
393. # [07:54] <@Garbee> done*
394. # [07:54] <@Garbee> But, at least the scrollbar is looking normal now.
395. # [07:54] <@Garbee> Still a bit smaller than normal.
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398. # [07:57] <arkhi> GG!
399. # [07:57] * Quits: tomshreds (~shreds@18-156.tr.cgocable.ca) (Quit: Leaving...)
400. # [07:58] <@Garbee> Ryan_Lane1, Are you actually around? I ran into a failed DB query when deleting an answer.
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402. # [07:59] <@Garbee> arkhi, On top of that it is 1:50AM now here. :/ So it is really late for me.
403. # [07:59] <@Garbee> and Varnish errors for all!
404. # [08:00] <@Garbee> Or just once.
405. # [08:00] <@Garbee> Yey, normal scollbar size is back. I should be done in just a few minutes then.
406. # [08:01] <arkhi> Have some sleep… Unless you really have no client that expect you to deliver anything soon. ;)
407. # [08:02] <@Garbee> I really don't have clients. Just a brain that needs some sleep soon.
408. # [08:02] <@Garbee> I will be getting there, but I got caught up doing this.
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413. # [08:07] <@Garbee> All done.
414. # [08:07] <arkhi> Good night Garbee
415. # [08:07] <arkhi> ;)
416. # [08:07] <@Garbee> At least the DB backups will be a few gigs lighter night.
417. # [08:07] <@Garbee> ligher now*
418. # [08:08] <@Garbee> lighter*
419. # [08:08] <@Garbee> wow, too late for me.
420. # [08:08] <@Garbee> I'm not heading out just yet...
421. # [08:08] <arkhi> 88!
422. # [08:08] <arkhi> Sorry
423. # [08:08] <arkhi> Bye bye!
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425. # [08:12] * Joins: andyfitz (andyfitz@nat/redhat/x-bjyobyjbyjhyaeeb)
426. # [08:12] <andyfitz> wow, not a small room at all
427. # [08:13] <@Garbee> OoO, RedHat.
428. # [08:13] <@Garbee> Hello.
429. # [08:15] <arkhi> Hello andyfitz
430. # [08:16] <andyfitz> Hi arkhi, g'day Garbee
431. # [08:16] <andyfitz> Garbee: does that get me some sort of open source karma?
432. # [08:17] <@Garbee> It is not day for me and the past about 2 hours have been far from good...
433. # [08:17] <@Garbee> andyfitz, It gets good thinking from me, that is for sure.
434. # [08:17] <andyfitz> i'll take it!
435. # [08:18] <@Garbee> If it said Novell then.... Well, let's not go there.
436. # [08:18] <@Garbee> ;)
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438. # [08:19] <andyfitz> heeyyyyyyy they're allllright
439. # [08:19] <@Garbee> My High School used their software/servers for the accounts and network storage.
440. # [08:19] <@Garbee> It sucked.
441. # [08:19] * andyfitz worked for Novell/SUSE not too long ago. things like build.opensuse.org and susestudio.com absolutely rock
442. # [08:19] <@Garbee> Yea, those do.
443. # [08:20] <@Garbee> I really like susestudio
444. # [08:21] <andyfitz> the 'other side' of SUSE/Novell is still a mystery to me. the whole netware side… I'm not a sysadmin
445. # [08:21] <@Garbee> But, their software for managing Windows systems and all at the level my school system had just stinks. I had to rebuild some systems from time to time for my teacher, just stunk to do.
446. # [08:21] <@Garbee> I can tell you, the other side needs some work.
447. # [08:22] <@Garbee> It took me half of a 3 hour class just to get it all configured away properly.
448. # [08:22] <andyfitz> Good news for my employer and their partners I guess… Anyway, hows this channel been? I'm a little late to the party at webplaform.org
449. # [08:22] <@Garbee> I joined in at about 8PM (EST) on my time launch night, and it was insane.
450. # [08:23] <@Garbee> It stayed pretty insane for a few days.
451. # [08:23] <@Garbee> Died down over the past two ofc.
452. # [08:23] <arkhi> andyfitz: It’s a lot less noisy and a bit more productive since the webchat was switched off, afaik
453. # [08:23] <@Garbee> Looks like what we have now will be roughly the normal.
454. # [08:23] * Joins: loic_m (~bballizli@89-92-138-233.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr)
455. # [08:23] <@Garbee> arkhi, More productive then you might think. We also had a sidechannel for a while *just* on meta conversation.
456. # [08:23] <@Garbee> Plenty happened there too.
457. # [08:24] <andyfitz> we're fresh out of the weekend and in the APAC timezone. I'm guessing this is the quiet period
458. # [08:24] <arkhi> Garbee: That’s why I added “afaik”. :)
459. # [08:24] <@Garbee> Sorry, still sleepy.
460. # [08:24] <@Garbee> ;)
461. # [08:24] <arkhi> I can’t blame you.
462. # [08:24] <arkhi> Can anybody on this chan force you to go to bed? :)
463. # [08:25] <@Garbee> andyfitz, This is roughly the leveling time. Most traffic now will be from people actually wanting to contribute, with a few laggers.
464. # [08:25] <@Garbee> I'm sure if some of the other Ops asked nicely I would do it.
465. # [08:25] <@Garbee> Other than that...
466. # [08:25] <@Garbee> ;)
467. # [08:25] <andyfitz> sign me up for the SVG love-in
468. # [08:25] <Damianz> The real magic is when the anon reads steadly climbs though word of mouth and editor traffic slowly climbs from readers
469. # [08:25] <@Garbee> I'm heading out once I get something done in the docs.
470. # [08:27] <@Garbee> Damianz, Did you know you sent me a CTCP request of some kind?
471. # [08:27] <Damianz> time
472. # [08:27] <Damianz> yes
473. # [08:27] <Damianz> I'm nosy
474. # [08:27] <Damianz> :P
475. # [08:27] <@Garbee> Pleaes don't again.
476. # [08:27] <@Garbee> please*
477. # [08:27] <Damianz> Hey, it's part of the protocol spec up to your client to respond or not >.>
478. # [08:27] <@Garbee> What did you get btw?
479. # [08:28] <Damianz> 2am ish
480. # [08:28] <@Garbee> ah, so it is right.
481. # [08:28] <@Garbee> Or the ZNC bouncer I'm on is in the same time zone...
482. # [08:28] <Damianz> Redundant actually since if you time me the server is like 7hours behind my actual time heh <3 irssi proxy.
483. # [08:29] <As4xk> ZNC redirects ctcp requests to the client when your online :)
484. # [08:29] <Damianz> on another note
485. # [08:29] * Damianz -> work
486. # [08:29] <@Garbee> Yea, looks like it just forwards everything.
487. # [08:29] <@Garbee> Ok, no more CTCP stuff on my client.
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491. # [08:36] <@Garbee> Ok, bugs are in the todo list. I'm leaving now arkhi.
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493. # [08:39] <arkhi> Good night Garbee. :)
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509. # [09:23] <@_WiZZarD> #yawn
510. # [09:23] <@_WiZZarD> Good morning
511. # [09:24] <@Grephix> Morning _WiZZarD :)
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516. # [09:31] <ravenzz> morning
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518. # [09:32] <arkhi> Good morning _WiZZarD
519. # [09:32] <arkhi> et alii…
520. # [09:32] <arkhi> :)
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525. # [09:46] <lampe2> good morning
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527. # [09:48] <arkhi> Hello lampe2
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529. # [09:52] <desbenoit> Hello!
530. # [09:54] <desbenoit> the "Q&A" title is way better the "forum" :)
531. # [09:55] <eighty4> morning
532. # [09:55] * Draeli1 is now known as DraeliYvesAstier
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535. # [09:59] <phryk> Okay, after clicking around webplatform.org I still have no clue what this is about. I have a hunch it might have to do with standardization?
536. # [10:00] <phryk> Anyways, I'm guessing a few people here understand proper HTTP and I have a question: Can the 'Content-Type' header be specified multiple times?
537. # [10:01] <phryk> Only related thing I found in the spec so far is "Multiple message-header fields with the same field-name MAY be present in a message if and only if the entire field-value for that header field is defined as a comma-separated list […]" But I can't exactly make out what that is supposed to mean.
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546. # [10:17] <arkhi> Sorry phryk… Can’t really help on the HTTP header and its implementation, but webplatform.org is mainly dealing with frontend dev, if that can answer your first question.
547. # [10:17] <arkhi> It’s a documentation that aims / will aim for pragmatic informations.
548. # [10:18] <arkhi> But still in alpha as of today…
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551. # [10:20] <phryk> arkhi: But documentation on exactly what? Frontend design patterns?
552. # [10:20] <arkhi> frontend design in general
553. # [10:21] <arkhi> be it concepts, implementation, etc.
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555. # [10:21] <arkhi> browser support, tutorials…
556. # [10:22] <arkhi> but maintained by community and W3C supported, along with other browser vendors and companies.
557. # [10:22] <phryk> Ah, sort of a "best practice" collection for state-of-the-art web applications?
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559. # [10:22] * ChanServ sets mode: +o chrismills
560. # [10:23] <arkhi> phryk: I guess you can see it that way, yeah.
561. # [10:23] <@chrismills> morning, good people of webplatform. ;-)
562. # [10:23] <arkhi> Hello chrismills… Feeling better?
563. # [10:23] <@chrismills> arkhi: I am feeling much better thanks.
564. # [10:23] <arkhi> Great!
565. # [10:23] <phryk> arkhi: Okay… The site is desperately in need of a better introduction paragraph then :P
566. # [10:24] <phryk> Good morning chrismills.
567. # [10:24] <@chrismills> arkhi: I don't think it was flu after all - because I felt better the day after. I think I was just really over tired and had done too much
568. # [10:24] <@chrismills> phryk: hey there!
569. # [10:24] <@chrismills> are we talking about the webplatform.org homepage, and the fact that it doesn't really give much away on the homepage?
570. # [10:25] <phryk> arkhi: I kind of have a hard time not being sarcasting about a site like that being completely php-powered :P
571. # [10:25] <phryk> chrismills: Yes.
572. # [10:25] <@chrismills> I am inclined to agree
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574. # [10:25] <phryk> I known it's alpha, but I guess the more feedback you get on that the higher it will get on your priority list :P
575. # [10:25] <@chrismills> phryk: it's not the first time someone had said as much.
576. # [10:26] <@chrismills> has*
577. # [10:26] * Quits: cheilmann (~cheilmann@209.118.197.3) (Quit: cheilmann)
578. # [10:26] <@chrismills> I unfortunately don't have the keys to edit the home page, but I'll will chase it up
579. # [10:26] <@chrismills> I*
580. # [10:26] <phryk> Nice.
581. # [10:26] * Quits: lampe2 (~michael@141.22.26.187) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
582. # [10:26] <arkhi> Also, it really need a clarification about if support is available or not.
583. # [10:27] * Quits: [tm] (~mike@sideshowbarker.net) (Client Quit)
584. # [10:27] <arkhi> Thinking about “my CSS doen’t work” type of questions.
585. # [10:27] <phryk> Yep.
586. # [10:27] <phryk> But for that there's #css :P
587. # [10:27] * Joins: nonge_ (~nonge@p5B3260CF.dip.t-dialin.net)
588. # [10:27] <arkhi> Tell the World. ;)
589. # [10:27] <phryk> but for more general questions like "I'm not sure if I should use a columned text layout, any thought?" this might be nice.
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591. # [10:28] <@chrismills> phryk: arkhi I think that's quite clear on the scope type stuff I've written, but we ought to write that clearky somewhere else. Like, on the Q&A front page ;-)
592. # [10:29] <phryk> "scope type stuff"?
593. # [10:30] * Joins: Sandkorn (~sk@unaffiliated/sandkorn)
594. # [10:31] <@chrismills> as in, what is off topic and on topic
595. # [10:31] * Quits: nonge (~nonge@p5B326B46.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
596. # [10:31] <@chrismills> http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Keeping_on_Topic
597. # [10:31] <phryk> chrismills: Yeah, and I would totally have no damn clue how to get to that text from the front page :P
598. # [10:34] <@chrismills> ;-)
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600. # [10:41] <asbjorn> I'd like to throw a note of support to phryk here... I think the structure of the documentation is getting good, but I think "getting to the docs" needs a different approach...
601. # [10:43] <ravenzz> at least there should be better categories, like CSS > Articles, CSS > Specs, CSS > Quick reference
602. # [10:44] <@chrismills> asbjorn: it probably does, yes
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604. # [10:44] <ravenzz> and FAQ
605. # [10:44] <asbjorn> I suggested trying to make a "feature" type approach (storage, network, drawing, 3d, etc.) as a starting point... I see how that might be a HUGE feature set for these docs since they cover loads of features...
606. # [10:44] <@chrismills> Please write up your suggestions and send them in. I am going to spend some time today writing a guide to editing/updating/writing a reference article, and a guide to referencing/updating/writing a tutorial
607. # [10:45] <@chrismills> but I want to start improving the IA of the site asap
608. # [10:45] <@chrismills> record them on bugs or a thread on the public mailing list
609. # [10:45] <@chrismills> makes it easier to find than chatting on IRC ;-)
610. # [10:45] <asbjorn> chrismills: good, will do :-)
611. # [10:45] <@chrismills> thanks!
612. # [10:46] <ravenzz> If it was a website of mine, I would have suspend the contributions until a set of content categorization guidelines where released
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614. # [10:46] <ravenzz> people keeps putting meat on it randomly
615. # [10:47] <@chrismills> ravenzz: hrm, yes
616. # [10:47] <@chrismills> I will add this information in my guides
617. # [10:47] <ravenzz> sweet :)
618. # [10:47] <@chrismills> I want them to be useful to people creating new pages, as well as editing existing ones
619. # [10:48] <@chrismills> BTW, I have moved Garbee's to do list page to http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Most_Wanted_Tasks
620. # [10:48] <@chrismills> Thought it had a nicer ring to it
621. # [10:48] <@chrismills> This is where we should start posting specific tasks for people to help out with
622. # [10:48] <ravenzz> I see
623. # [10:51] <eighty4> Is there a reason why http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/tutorials/CSS_background_images and http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/tutorials/using_css_background_images seems so similar?
624. # [10:52] <eighty4> also. They really should contain links to some great sprite creator scripts
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626. # [10:54] <ravenzz> oh marklar what an huge article
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628. # [10:57] <ravenzz> also having codestyle guidelines would be important
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630. # [10:57] <arkhi> ravenzz: I think there is…
631. # [10:58] <phryk> ravenzz: For that the python pep 8 might be a good model
632. # [10:58] <phryk> Anyways I'll kill my irc client, am at work and all that :P
633. # [10:58] <ravenzz> arkhi examples say the opposite :p
634. # [10:59] <arkhi> ravenzz: Would that help? http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Manual_Of_Style
635. # [10:59] <arkhi> ravenzz: Those pages were imported from different sources (MS, Opera, Mozilla…), so the writing styles should be done manually now…
636. # [11:00] <arkhi> I think you have the sources where they come from at the bottom of the page.
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638. # [11:01] <ravenzz> kk
639. # [11:03] <ravenzz> arkhi I was talking about something like this https://github.com/necolas/idiomatic-css
640. # [11:04] <arkhi> mmm…
641. # [11:05] <arkhi> Something like this would fit in http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/Help:Contents
642. # [11:06] <arkhi> ravenzz: Can you record this as a bug or a thread on the public mailing list if it doesn’t exist yet?
643. # [11:06] <arkhi> chrismills: Do you know of anything similar to https://github.com/necolas/idiomatic-css in WPD?
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645. # [11:09] <@chrismills> arkhi: gimme one sec - just finishing off something else. I'll be with you in a minute ;-)
646. # [11:09] <arkhi> Not in a rush, thanks. :)
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656. # [11:28] <@chrismills> arkhi: so, you are looking for a CSS best practices type doc? We have a few bits contained in some of the articles, for example http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/guides/getting_started_with_css, but we don't have anything exactly like this.
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669. # [11:42] <arkhi> I agree with ravenzz on this one…
670. # [11:43] <arkhi> In order to avoid a “user generated” coding‑style troll, defining some would be a good idea.
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673. # [11:55] <@chrismills> arkhi we could just use necolas' guidelines
674. # [11:57] <arkhi> Cheers to that if license agrees…
675. # [11:57] <arkhi> I really need to dive into the site map in order to participate more…
676. # [11:58] * ChanServ sets mode: +o arkhi
677. # [11:58] <@arkhi> So we should add a link into http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Manual_Of_Style
678. # [11:58] <@arkhi> and this document would appear in http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Coding_Conventions_CSS ?
679. # [11:58] * @arkhi hugs ChanServ
680. # [11:59] <@chrismills> well, I think we should link to the version on github for now
681. # [11:59] <@chrismills> until we work out what we are doing
682. # [11:59] <@arkhi> OK
683. # [11:59] <desbenoit> congrats arkhi
684. # [11:59] <Arkkis> hmm, the current link color is quite close to the text color. I'm having issues seeing the links within the text
685. # [11:59] <@chrismills> Arkkis I think you are right. Can you file a bug for this?
686. # [11:59] <Arkkis> sure, where does that happen?
687. # [12:00] <@chrismills> http://goo.gl/bTTpT
688. # [12:00] <@chrismills> thanks!
689. # [12:00] <Arkkis> ok, will do it now :)
690. # [12:00] <@chrismills> ;-)
691. # [12:01] <@arkhi> mmm… Actually, there is already a link to http://styleguide.yahoo.com/
692. # [12:01] <Arkkis> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=19371
693. # [12:01] <Arkkis> there was already a bug report about that
694. # [12:01] <@chrismills> ah, i guess that includes to code too? I thought that just included the language ;-)
695. # [12:01] <@arkhi> ha… Not the same… Sorry
696. # [12:01] <@chrismills> ah, yes ;-)
697. # [12:01] <@arkhi> Can't find it.
698. # [12:01] <desbenoit> Arkkis you're right: the contrast ratio between links and text is 1.2 it should be over 2.
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700. # [12:02] <Arkkis> desbenoit, could you add that bit about the contrast ratio to the bug I just linked?
701. # [12:02] * ChanServ sets mode: +o varl
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703. # [12:03] <desbenoit> Arkkis I was doing that :)
704. # [12:03] <Arkkis> :)
705. # [12:04] <@arkhi> I will look for the coding conventions thingy when I’m home…
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707. # [12:04] <Arkkis> desbenoit, what did you use to check the contrast ratio?
708. # [12:04] <desbenoit> the new tool by lea : http://leaverou.github.com/contrast-ratio/#%23256A84-on-%2358595B
709. # [12:04] * ChanServ sets mode: +o ravenzz
710. # [12:05] <Arkkis> oh, that, I read about it on her blog but did not have time to try it yet
711. # [12:05] <Arkkis> she's excellent, I wonder if we could get her here too
712. # [12:05] * ChanServ sets mode: +o _cheney
713. # [12:06] <desbenoit> She's the one who designed WPD :)
714. # [12:06] <@arkhi> :)
715. # [12:06] * ChanServ sets mode: +o _Rainulf
716. # [12:06] <Arkkis> hahaha, really?
717. # [12:06] <Arkkis> I was thinking that this seems like stuff she'd do
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721. # [12:08] <@chrismills> Arkkis: yeah, Lea works full time for W3C dev rel, and has done a huge amount of work on WPD already ;-)
722. # [12:09] * chrismills is now known as new-nickname
723. # [12:10] <Arkkis> desbenoit, so, you used the tool to check background vs foreground tool to check colors between adjanced texts. Is there a spec somewhere that the contrast should be above 2 too, or did you just improvise?
724. # [12:10] <desbenoit> No spec.
725. # [12:10] <desbenoit> It's a rull I use currently
726. # [12:10] * new-nickname is now known as chrismills
727. # [12:10] <truckle> Hey, I wonder - are there any particular aggregators or blogs taht you guys keep track of to keep abreast of whats happening with web frameworks and libraries?
728. # [12:11] <Arkkis> I have a couple of weekly email things that I follow with RSS
729. # [12:11] <desbenoit> We need a spec about lisibility by the way. Accessibility is a bit short :)
730. # [12:11] <Arkkis> and then I have about 300 blogs that I follow
731. # [12:12] <dontcallmedom> doesn't WCAG2 requires contrast much higher than 2? http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG/#visual-audio-contrast
732. # [12:12] <Arkkis> truckle, if you need some, I can see what are my current favorites
733. # [12:12] <dontcallmedom> (i.e. 4.5 for regular content, 3 for large text)
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735. # [12:13] <dontcallmedom> oh, you were talking about adjacent text, I guess, not foreground/background
736. # [12:13] <@chrismills> OK guys, I'm gonna go offline for a bit, so I can get some of my guides written. Back later
737. # [12:13] <Arkkis> cya
738. # [12:13] <@arkhi> bye chrismills
739. # [12:13] <@chrismills> laters ;-)
740. # [12:14] <desbenoit> That's it dontcallmedom we're talking about normal text and "linked" text.
741. # [12:14] <truckle> Arkkis: would be interested to see :-)
742. # [12:14] * ChanServ sets mode: +o desbenoit
743. # [12:14] <@desbenoit> bye @chrismills
744. # [12:14] <truckle> 300 blogs!!
745. # [12:14] * @desbenoit hugs Chanserv
746. # [12:14] <@chrismills> there you go seb - don't let the power go to your head ;-)
747. # [12:14] <truckle> probably was more thinking something more single sourced heh
748. # [12:15] <@chrismills> dontcallmedom: thanks for the mail thread about the IA for JS. we really need to get that sorted!
749. # [12:15] <Arkkis> truckle, yep, not all webdev related, but quite a large bunch of them, yes
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751. # [12:15] <truckle> I do have my own rss feed but i use it for small projects that wouldnt get any mainstream attention
752. # [12:15] <@chrismills> ok, really off now. Drop me a DM if you need me
753. # [12:16] <Arkkis> truckle, I'll query you a bit later about some of my links
754. # [12:16] <Arkkis> if it's ok for you?
755. # [12:17] <Arkkis> <3 google reader
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757. # [12:18] <@varl> .
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767. # [12:42] <truckle> Arkkis: If it doesnt put you out too much!
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777. # [13:00] <@arkhi> off I go… See you later Alligators…
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784. # [13:14] <As4xk> Hello :)
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786. # [13:16] <As4xk> chrismills: Are you better after a weekend?
787. # [13:16] <@chrismills> As4xk: yes, thanks ;-)
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789. # [13:17] <As4xk> Good good
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809. # [14:31] <@arkhi> Hello again...
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825. # [14:55] <@ravenzz> who does have control over the CSS of the wiki?
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827. # [14:56] <@chrismills> ravenzz: that's pretty much me, at least for the tutorial articles
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829. # [14:56] <@ravenzz> I am talking about the website itsef ?
830. # [14:57] <@chrismills> Ah, ok ;-)
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833. # [14:57] <@chrismills> ravenzz: it's generally Lea Verou and Doug Schepers sorting that out
834. # [14:57] <@chrismills> if you have found a problem, file a bug
835. # [14:58] <@ravenzz> ah ok
836. # [14:58] <@ravenzz> thank you
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840. # [15:01] <shepazu> morning, folks
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842. # [15:01] <@Sandkorn> gidday!
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844. # [15:02] <@chrismills> shepazu: yo!
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846. # [15:04] <@Sandkorn> uh, thanks to whoever added me to chanserv's list btw. =)
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848. # [15:05] <@mdel> mornin'
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850. # [15:06] <@chrismills> Sandkorn: you've welcome...
851. # [15:06] <@chrismills> you're*
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853. # [15:06] <@Sandkorn> *bows*
854. # [15:07] <@mdel> ah, same here chris. thanks!
855. # [15:08] <asbjorn> chrismills: article looks good! :-)
856. # [15:09] <@chrismills> asbjorn: cool! I'd love someone to try using, and let me know if it is ok.
857. # [15:09] <@chrismills> using it*
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861. # [15:10] <@ravenzz> link?
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864. # [15:11] <desbenoit> chrismills great article.
865. # [15:11] <@chrismills> http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Content/Tutorials_and_concept_articles
866. # [15:12] <desbenoit> It looks like there's a numerotation issue in the summary
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868. # [15:14] <@chrismills> ?
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876. # [15:18] <@arkhi> chrismills: on http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/ > "Other/Basic"
877. # [15:18] <@arkhi> Should I enter "WPD:Content/coding_guidelines/css" in the input to create a page that will be accessible at http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Content/coding_guidelines/css ?
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879. # [15:19] <@chrismills> arkhi: you got it.
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886. # [15:23] <@arkhi> Thanks... I wasn't sure what would be auto-generated or not. :)
887. # [15:23] <desbenoit> chrismills it goes by 1.1 - 1.2 1 - 1.3 2 - 1.4 3 -[...]
888. # [15:23] <@arkhi> Hello | Salut desbenoit. :)
889. # [15:24] <desbenoit> Bonjour arkhi !
890. # [15:24] <@arkhi> desbenoit: chrismills is not connected.
891. # [15:25] <desbenoit> Arf
892. # [15:25] <desbenoit> I'll send an email
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896. # [15:37] <@arkhi> wondering if I should create WPD:Content/coding_guidelines/html or WPD:Content/coding_guidelines/markup
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898. # [15:41] <@ravenzz> html is the best choice imo, noobs would understand it better
899. # [15:41] <mike5w3c> arkhi: what ravenzz said :-)
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901. # [15:42] <@arkhi> Maybe I wasn't here... Or is it on a mailing list?
902. # [15:42] <@arkhi> ha...
903. # [15:42] <@arkhi> sorry... :)
904. # [15:43] <mike5w3c> :)
905. # [15:44] <@arkhi> oki dokie
906. # [15:44] <@arkhi> (ravenzz has a very light color on my chan log :p )
907. # [15:44] <@arkhi> I was thinking about SVG and the like...
908. # [15:44] <@arkhi> I mean, I suppose SVG way of writing code will not differ from HTML, would it?
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911. # [15:45] <mike5w3c> arkhi: maybe but IMHO it's not very useful to have a generic "markup" category
912. # [15:45] <mike5w3c> much more useful to have specific categories for each
913. # [15:45] <mike5w3c> and anyway it's a short list
914. # [15:45] <mike5w3c> html, svg, mathml
915. # [15:45] <nzaccardi> Good morning folks!
916. # [15:45] <mike5w3c> and the html category can reference the svg and mathml ones
917. # [15:46] <nzaccardi> Garbee: You were promoted... nice.
918. # [15:46] <@arkhi> ravenzz: I sent a mail to ecolas and putting https://github.com/necolas/idiomatic-css into http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Content/coding_guidelines/css
919. # [15:46] <@arkhi> necolas*
920. # [15:46] <@arkhi> OK mike5w3c
921. # [15:51] <@Garbee> This is why I shouldn't go to bed... Too much logs!
922. # [15:52] <@arkhi> :) Garbee
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924. # [15:53] <@Garbee> eighty4, "sprite script creators" probably more for dev tools section or a section within CSS about image sprites.
925. # [15:54] <@ravenzz> arkhi cool
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930. # [16:01] <plamoni> Is there a standard format for ECMAScript citations on wp.org docs?
931. # [16:02] <plamoni> and/or a go-to site for linking to specific sections of the specs?
932. # [16:02] <@arkhi> Not yet plamoni, I think.
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935. # [16:02] <plamoni> I'm not much of a wiki-veteran… can i get a suggestion?
936. # [16:02] <plamoni> :-)
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938. # [16:06] <@Garbee> ravenzz, They are working on getting full site code with skin theme open for edits/patch submissions. It will be a while though it seems.
939. # [16:07] <@Garbee> arkhi, Code Style Guides have also been brought up. I'm getting an email out today about them if there isn't one already done.
940. # [16:08] <@arkhi> Well, there will be at least two stubs.
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949. # [16:14] <plamoni> code style would be great
950. # [16:14] <@Garbee> I have told some preliminarily to just use jQuery's for javascript stuff.
951. # [16:14] <plamoni> i'm doing some cleanup on the JavaScript Values article and even within a single page code style is all over the map
952. # [16:14] <plamoni> :-)
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955. # [16:14] <@arkhi> I'm writing some for CSS, plamoni
956. # [16:15] <@Garbee> http://docs.jquery.com/JQuery_Core_Style_Guidelines
957. # [16:15] <plamoni> Thanks Garbee
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959. # [16:15] <@Garbee> Yea. People who actually are doing it like that much more than idiomatic js. ;)
960. # [16:15] <@Garbee> So, I just told them to use that until it can be brought up and decided on.
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962. # [16:16] * askhader_ is now known as askhader
963. # [16:16] <plamoni> one question not addressed by that, Garbee: When noting the value of an expression, how would you like to see that handled?
964. # [16:17] <@Garbee> arkhi, CSS/HTML are two much needed ones if you could get them done. Google has a great resource on their HTML style guide which I was thinking of pulling some if not most of our guide from.
965. # [16:17] <plamoni> for example
966. # [16:17] <plamoni> let's say "x" is 5
967. # [16:17] <plamoni> x; //returns 5
968. # [16:17] <plamoni> x; //is 5
969. # [16:17] <plamoni> console.log(x); //prints 5
970. # [16:17] <plamoni> x; //=> 5
971. # [16:18] <@arkhi> Garbee: I try to do something for CSS, but I'll need to go pretty soon.
972. # [16:18] <@arkhi> (I'm supposed to be gone, actually :) )
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974. # [16:18] <@Garbee> I would say *is*, but I'm not a js person either.
975. # [16:18] <plamoni> which seems best? I'm a fan of number 2, but numbers 1 and 3 seems ot be most common
976. # [16:18] <plamoni> I'm with you :-)
977. # [16:18] <plamoni> seem to*
978. # [16:18] <@Garbee> Because I don't think x; technically returns anything.
979. # [16:19] <@Garbee> that is console.log(x) that will return it in a way that could be seen.
980. # [16:19] <plamoni> agreed
981. # [16:19] <plamoni> i don't like console.log
982. # [16:19] <@Garbee> I would also not say prints.
983. # [16:19] <plamoni> because it doesn't work in older IE without the dev tools open
984. # [16:19] <@Garbee> I would say returns 5 into the log
985. # [16:19] <@arkhi> +1 for #2
986. # [16:19] <eighty4> plamoni: that's always a fun problem, forgetting a single console.log...
987. # [16:19] <plamoni> eighty4: agreed :-)
988. # [16:20] <@Garbee> I have had an issue with older IE and JS. I just blocked it from user registration since it isn't a high priority for me to debug and fix that.
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990. # [16:21] <plamoni> Okay, I'm going with "//is 5" until someone tells me otherwise ;-)
991. # [16:21] <@Garbee> plamoni, Yea, I don't think anyone except a super-technical person would complain.
992. # [16:21] <@Garbee> At that point, they may have a valid reason to change it. Until then though...
993. # [16:22] <@Garbee> Even then I would love to see a technical argument against "is" in that case.
994. # [16:22] <plamoni> haha, me too
995. # [16:22] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@119.161.158.96) (Quit: kennyluck)
996. # [16:22] <plamoni> i give JS presentations at work and I use "//is"
997. # [16:22] <plamoni> it's nice and short
998. # [16:23] <plamoni> so it fits in powerpoint slides well ;-)
999. # [16:23] <plamoni> and it's obvious what it means
1000. # [16:27] <@NotTomato> Good morning.
1001. # [16:27] <@NotTomato> Woah I'm OP in here.
1002. # [16:27] <@arkhi> Good morning NotTomato
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1007. # [16:31] <@NotTomato> Morning arkhi~
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1019. # [16:58] <@arkhi> ravenzz: There you go with a first shot: http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Content/coding_guidelines/css
1020. # [16:58] <@arkhi> Now to bed. :)
1021. # [16:59] <@arkhi> Good night / day / teat time, all...
1022. # [16:59] <@Sandkorn> nice.
1023. # [16:59] <@Sandkorn> nightynight
1024. # [16:59] <@NotTomato> Night arkhi.
1025. # [16:59] * Joins: scottrowe (~scottrowe@67.218.109.13)
1026. # [17:00] <desbenoit> Bonne nuit arkhi !
1027. # [17:00] <desbenoit> Bonjour NotTomato
1028. # [17:01] <@NotTomato> Hi desbenoit!
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1035. # [17:11] <plamoni> Just did a bunch of cleanup on: http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/concepts/programming/javascript/values
1036. # [17:13] <plamoni> One question I had is: What's our stance on JavaScript "versions"? They're a manifestation of Mozilla, not part of the ECMAScript standard… since we're focused on web standards, I would think we'd want to avoid them… but they're mentioned quite a bit throughout MDN-sourced docs...
1037. # [17:13] <plamoni> (e.g. "JavaScript 1.5")
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1040. # [17:16] <@Garbee> That will take someone greater than I to answer. Because I have no clue.
1041. # [17:16] <plamoni> poor Garbee…. I've done nothing but as JS questions all morning :-)
1042. # [17:17] <plamoni> here, let me think of a CSS question or two
1043. # [17:17] <@Garbee> Paul does plenty of JS stuff, so I will ask him next time I see him what he thinks on it.
1044. # [17:17] <plamoni> ;-)
1045. # [17:17] <@Garbee> Yea, I'm not a JS person. I actually despise coding it at all.
1046. # [17:18] <plamoni> that's sad… you should watch Crockford on JavaScript… then you will want to code nothing else for the rest of your days
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1049. # [17:21] * ChanServ sets mode: +o fr0zenice
1050. # [17:22] <@NotTomato> Hi fr0zenice.
1051. # [17:22] <@fr0zenice> hello!
1052. # [17:22] * Parts: @Garbee (~Garbee@lb1.cluster.grephix.nl) ("Leaving")
1053. # [17:22] * Joins: Garbee (~Garbee@lb1.cluster.grephix.nl)
1054. # [17:22] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Garbee
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1056. # [17:24] <chrismills> !bungle7890
1057. # [17:24] <wpdbot> I'm sorry, chrismills, I do not understand "bungle7890".
1058. # [17:24] <@Garbee> Hey Chris.
1059. # [17:24] * ChanServ sets mode: +o chrismills
1060. # [17:24] <@chrismills> damn - that command didn't work ;-)
1061. # [17:24] <@chrismills> Hi Garbee!
1062. # [17:24] <@NotTomato> Hi chrismills.
1063. # [17:25] <@chrismills> NotTomato: hey!
1064. # [17:25] <@fr0zenice> hello ^.+$
1065. # [17:25] <@chrismills> ;-)
1066. # [17:25] <@NotTomato> Pretty soon there's going to be more OPs than users.
1067. # [17:25] <@Garbee> Thanks for moving that page btw. I made it just real fast and didn't give to much thinking to the name.
1068. # [17:25] <@chrismills> ;-)
1069. # [17:25] <@chrismills> nice to have good coverage
1070. # [17:26] <@Garbee> Yea, at least now there are some that are here when most of the normal Ops I see are asleep.
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1074. # [17:30] <@_WiZZarD> I never sleep!
1075. # [17:30] <@_WiZZarD> I'm jjust afk a lot ;)
1076. # [17:30] * Joins: spindritf (~spindritf@amber.soyellow.net)
1077. # [17:31] <@Garbee> http://talk.webplatform.org/forums/index.php/2227/should-we-be-flagging-duplicate-answers --Please discuss. I have no real idea what to way to go here.
1078. # [17:31] <@Sandkorn> afk is an acronym for "working on WPF" .. i suppose
1079. # [17:32] <@NotTomato> I have been closing duplicates when I can, I realize there's a lot but I think we're suppose to be deleting them.
1080. # [17:32] <@NotTomato> As far as I know.
1081. # [17:32] <@Garbee> This is about answers, not the questions.
1082. # [17:32] <@NotTomato> Oh duplicate answers.. hmm.
1083. # [17:32] <@NotTomato> I have only deleted "exact" duplicates.
1084. # [17:32] <@NotTomato> It might be helpful for people who don't like searching.
1085. # [17:33] <@NotTomato> where's shepazu when you need him~
1086. # [17:33] <shepazu> he's right here!
1087. # [17:33] <@Garbee> I would say "In the future, yes. Anything here now, no." Plus make sure the content is exactly duplicate and no new information is being relayed.
1088. # [17:34] <@Garbee> That thread can just sit for all I care. But then again I am the one who cleaned out all the hidden stuff of as of last night so I am biased to doing mass removal again.
1089. # [17:34] <@NotTomato> thank goodness shepazu, there's a crisis.
1090. # [17:34] <shepazu> yeah, seems reasonable
1091. # [17:34] <shepazu> a crisis!?
1092. # [17:34] <@Garbee> Yea, this Tomato guy keeps spamming!
1093. # [17:34] <@NotTomato> Q&A duplicate answer crisis!!
1094. # [17:34] <shepazu> nooooooo!
1095. # [17:35] <shepazu> NotTomato: can you summarize and provide links?
1096. # [17:35] <@eternicode> I'm for flagging dupes, but like Garbee said in the Q, it's difficult to expect the average user to be able to effectively distinguish between a duplicate and a similar answer.
1097. # [17:35] <@NotTomato> http://talk.webplatform.org/forums/index.php/2227/should-we-be-flagging-duplicate-answers Garbee was just asking about this shepazu
1098. # [17:35] <@Garbee> I think if it is an easy duplicate (like the thread pointed to is) then it should be simple enough.
1099. # [17:35] * Quits: @ravenzz (~raven@unaffiliated/ravenzz)
1100. # [17:35] <@Garbee> But for elaborate answers...
1101. # [17:36] <@eternicode> so maybe "Yes, for obvious duplicates"?
1102. # [17:36] <@Garbee> I just feel like long form answers should just be left. It could relay the exact same information, but just be worded differently. Which the different wording could help different people.
1103. # [17:36] * Parts: @chrismills (~chrismill@87.114.75.21)
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1105. # [17:36] <@Garbee> Yea, but lets still not touch that thread pointed to.
1106. # [17:36] <@Garbee> Just from here on out, lets mark obvious duplicates. Anything else, let it be.
1107. # [17:36] * Quits: @fr0zenice (~frozenice@ltea-178-013-227-125.pools.arcor-ip.net) (Disconnected by services)
1108. # [17:36] * fr0zenice` is now known as fr0zenice
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1113. # [17:37] <@Garbee> I'm writing up a comment now for it.
1114. # [17:37] <@fr0zenice> gah, freenode outage, good thing we have a chatlog!
1115. # [17:38] <@Garbee> Will probably leave it open for discussion for a while and then close it in a few days.
1116. # [17:38] <@eternicode> woah, how did I lose 600 pts in the forum o_0
1117. # [17:38] <@Garbee> eternicode, Me cleaning last night.
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1120. # [17:38] <@eternicode> ah
1121. # [17:38] <@eternicode> freaky
1122. # [17:38] <@Garbee> A lot of people lost a lot of points in me cleaning house.
1123. # [17:38] * Joins: spindritf (~spindritf@amber.soyellow.net)
1124. # [17:38] <@Garbee> You shouldn't see that massive of a drop again.
1125. # [17:39] <shepazu> Garbee, NotTomato, I'm not sure I see the problem…
1126. # [17:39] <shepazu> so there are duplicates… so what?
1127. # [17:39] <@Garbee> People should use the vote system vs just posting to have a post.
1128. # [17:39] <shepazu> Garbee: ouch.
1129. # [17:40] <shepazu> let's nto get too prescriptive here
1130. # [17:40] <@Garbee> I think is what most of this early stuff is, just posting to post. Later on it will level out.
1131. # [17:40] <@Garbee> that is*
1132. # [17:40] <@NotTomato> shepazu, I assumed it would be your call on if we should be deleting duplicates or not, but everyone seems to have figured it out themselves. o;
1133. # [17:40] <@NotTomato> shepazu, crisis clear, I think it's okay now.
1134. # [17:41] <shepazu> I don't see any harm in letting people post duplicates, and I see a lot of harm in people feeling like they aren't free to post
1135. # [17:41] <shepazu> we don't need to be control freaks about this
1136. # [17:41] <@Garbee> So officially "Just let it be."
1137. # [17:41] <@Garbee> ?
1138. # [17:41] <shepazu> in fact, it won't work if we are control freaks
1139. # [17:41] <shepazu> yes, please
1140. # [17:42] <@Garbee> Yea, I really think that it will just work itself out.
1141. # [17:42] <@fr0zenice> Got another one about Q&A. Any opinions on sorting answer by votes instead of timestamp?
1142. # [17:42] <shepazu> fr0zenice: does the interface let user choose the sorting themselves?
1143. # [17:42] <@fr0zenice> I don't think so
1144. # [17:43] <shepazu> :(
1145. # [17:43] <@Garbee> I was thinking last night as I cleaned up the Q&A stuff that almost all of it is just from the buzz. We should really be waiting a few weeks before deciding on all this little management stuff. Time will take care of most of it for us.
1146. # [17:43] <@NotTomato> My opinion is people are bad at down voting and up voting, but letting them choose how to sort it would work well.
1147. # [17:43] <@NotTomato> Forcing it might be bad though just because they are kinda bad at using their down votes.
1148. # [17:43] <@Garbee> We can flip a switch for votes vs timestamps.
1149. # [17:43] <@fr0zenice> Yeah that one I saw, I'll check the options again, in case I really missed a config for "let user choose" or something...
1150. # [17:44] <@Garbee> NotTomato, Having a little helping guide is fine. Although it shouldn't be used as absolute rule.
1151. # [17:44] <@NotTomato> Yeah I know, I don't care about the rules.
1152. # [17:44] <@NotTomato> I was just mentioning that people don't really use their down votes to down vote bad content.
1153. # [17:44] <@NotTomato> Just stuff they don't like.
1154. # [17:44] <@Garbee> That is a valid use.
1155. # [17:45] <@NotTomato> Content gets lost, like if I posted a question where my english wasn't that good, it would be down voted even though the question might be perfectly fine.
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1160. # [17:49] <@NotTomato> shepazu, new crisis, whenever you aren't busy, can you fix the little "T" in Chat? I'm sure it's been mentioned to you but I thought I would ask.
1161. # [17:50] * Joins: phryk (~phryk@static.39.216.9.176.clients.your-server.de)
1162. # [17:50] <@Garbee> Is Isuru currently an Admin? http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/User:Isuru
1163. # [17:50] <@Garbee> OH wait, I just remembered how to find the group page.
1164. # [17:50] <@chrismills> Garbee: nope, he isn't
1165. # [17:50] <@NotTomato> it has*
1166. # [17:51] * Joins: Ordona (~Ordona@wikimedia/xxcom9a)
1167. # [17:51] <@Garbee> chrismills, Ok. He seems to be doing fine in the Q&A, so could be someone to watch to possibly moderate that area of the site if they wish to do so.
1168. # [17:51] <@NotTomato> chrismills, did Waldir ever come around?
1169. # [17:51] <@chrismills> Garbee: cool
1170. # [17:51] <@chrismills> NotTomato: ummmm, Waldir?
1171. # [17:51] <@NotTomato> Also sorry to ask this, but why does Waldir have beureaucrat rights?
1172. # [17:51] <@Garbee> I have seen that nick once or twice.
1173. # [17:52] <@NotTomato> bureaucrat*
1174. # [17:52] <@chrismills> i don;t know
1175. # [17:52] <@NotTomato> Waldir is a volunteer admin who came around for one day and hasn't shown up.
1176. # [17:52] <@NotTomato> For some reason he has bureaucrat rights.
1177. # [17:52] <@NotTomato> I was just curious if anyone else saw him.
1178. # [17:52] <@chrismills> not I
1179. # [17:53] <@Garbee> I saw the nick in here once over the wekeend for a few minutes iirc. Let me check my logs.
1180. # [17:53] <shepazu> NotTomato: little "T" in Chat?
1181. # [17:53] <@Garbee> Didn't say or do anything that I know of.
1182. # [17:53] <@chrismills> Anyway, I'm ducking my head down again. I've got loads of writing to do this week for Opera stuff, and only this week to do it ;-)
1183. # [17:53] * Joins: jkomoros (~jkomoros@72.254.96.10)
1184. # [17:53] <@Garbee> Have fun.
1185. # [17:53] <@chrismills> And I need to leave in 2 hours to go rehearse with my band. Yipes!
1186. # [17:54] <@NotTomato> shepazu, http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/Main_Page top bar, "Docs" "Q&A" "CHAT"
1187. # [17:54] <@chrismills> take care dude(tte)s
1188. # [17:54] <@NotTomato> The "T" is smaller than the rest of the font.
1189. # [17:54] * Parts: @chrismills (~chrismill@87.114.75.21)
1190. # [17:54] <@Sandkorn> lets hope that include something to support mp4 within your browser.. :>
1191. # [17:54] <@Garbee> Oh, Paul asked me *if* I had seen waldir.
1192. # [17:54] <@Garbee> That is what it was.
1193. # [17:54] <@Garbee> So yea. Those rights might need to be looked at then...
1194. # [17:55] <@NotTomato> Did you find it shepazu?
1195. # [17:55] <@Garbee> The CHAT link in the menu.
1196. # [17:55] * Quits: chaasof (~chatzilla@41.226.11.246) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1197. # [17:55] <@NotTomato> http://i.imgur.com/dTK5C.png
1198. # [17:56] <@mdel> that is strange
1199. # [17:56] <@NotTomato> I know other users can see it.
1200. # [17:56] <@NotTomato> I saw someone reporting it the first day the site opened.
1201. # [17:56] <@mdel> looks ok on a mac/chrome
1202. # [17:56] <@NotTomato> ):
1203. # [17:56] <shepazu> NotTomato: I think that's an artifact of your browser...
1204. # [17:56] <@NotTomato> I don't know, I saw other people talking about it, so I figured it wasn't my browser.
1205. # [17:56] <@fr0zenice> Looks odd in my FF/Chrome, too.
1206. # [17:57] <shepazu> what browser/OS?
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1208. # [17:57] <@Garbee> Chrome/Windows it does it.
1209. # [17:57] <@fr0zenice> win7 here
1210. # [17:57] <@Sandkorn> fine in FF/Chromium here
1211. # [17:57] <@Garbee> IE10 Windows it does not.
1212. # [17:57] <@NotTomato> I can see it on firefox and chrome.
1213. # [17:57] <shepazu> Sandkorn: you on mac?
1214. # [17:57] <@Sandkorn> Linux
1215. # [17:57] <@mdel> I have the most font issues in Ubuntu, actually
1216. # [17:57] <@Garbee> There should be a bug report already for it.
1217. # [17:57] <shepazu> seems like maybe that's some strange Windows thing?
1218. # [17:57] <@NotTomato> Hmm.
1219. # [17:57] <shepazu> Garbee: url?
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1221. # [17:58] <shepazu> I can't think of a logical reason for it…
1222. # [17:58] <shepazu> in the DOM, the string is "CHAT"
1223. # [17:58] <@NotTomato> That's really strange.
1224. # [17:58] <@Garbee> http://talk.webplatform.org/forums/
1225. # [17:58] <@mdel> it has to be font artifacts, I see stuff like that often
1226. # [17:59] <shepazu> no, I mean bug url :)
1227. # [17:59] <@Garbee> OH, still searching on that one.
1228. # [17:59] <@fr0zenice> Some info here: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=19369
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1231. # [18:00] <@Garbee> No bug report directly for that issue, but the text rendering issues could include it.
1232. # [18:01] <@Garbee> Actually that report is looking at it.
1233. # [18:01] <@Garbee> And a few other issues.
1234. # [18:01] <shepazu> ugh
1235. # [18:01] <shepazu> how strange
1236. # [18:02] <shepazu> well, we'll have to look at that one more deeply
1237. # [18:02] <desbenoit> Hmm, can i look at the css?
1238. # [18:02] <desbenoit> I try from the code but can't open it from firebug.
1239. # [18:02] <@Garbee> I wonder if using lowercase and text-transform: uppercase; would help...
1240. # [18:02] <@Garbee> desbenoit, The source isn't on a repo yet. :/
1241. # [18:03] <desbenoit> garbee ok
1242. # [18:03] <@fr0zenice> it doesn't
1243. # [18:03] <@Garbee> desbenoit, You can view source and get it via the link there.
1244. # [18:03] <@Garbee> http://blog.webplatform.org/wp-content/themes/webplatform/style.css
1245. # [18:03] <@Garbee> http://talk.webplatform.org/forums/qa-theme/webplatform/qa-styles.css?1.5.2
1246. # [18:03] <@fr0zenice> So there seems to be no way to let the user choose the sorting of answers, I also checked Q2A Q&A. :/
1247. # [18:04] <desbenoit> @garbee thanks
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1249. # [18:04] <@NotTomato> fr0zenice, I couldn't find any way to sort either, I thought I was missing something.
1250. # [18:04] <@fr0zenice> Yeah, there's only the admin option that forces it for everybody.
1251. # [18:05] <desbenoit> For webkit typo issues a -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; in the body should do the trick
1252. # [18:06] * Quits: cheilmann (~cheilmann@209.118.197.3) (Quit: cheilmann)
1253. # [18:06] <@fr0zenice> still looks the same
1254. # [18:06] <shepazu> desbenoit: could you mention that in the bug report?
1255. # [18:06] <desbenoit> Yeah... I'm doing it right now
1256. # [18:07] <shepazu> fr0zenice, NotTomato, if there's an option for allowing admins to change the sorting, it should be trivial to allow users to do it, using an extension or something
1257. # [18:07] <desbenoit> shepazu done
1258. # [18:07] <shepazu> thanks, desbenoit
1259. # [18:07] <@fr0zenice> desbenoit: just checked in my Chrome/Win, no option of -webkit-font-smoothing seems to help
1260. # [18:08] <@Garbee> shep, Yea. Should just be able to be set via a cookie and new item in the user system to store the value.
1261. # [18:08] <@fr0zenice> shepazu: I can take a look if I find an existing extesion.
1262. # [18:08] <@fr0zenice> +n
1263. # [18:08] <shepazu> thanks, fr0zenice
1264. # [18:08] <desbenoit> fr0zenice Oh? that's surprising, it's a patch I use in a few website when font face is an issue
1265. # [18:09] <desbenoit> i'm sorry I need to go.
1266. # [18:09] <@Garbee> desbenoit, Leave it is fine. We can't keep you here.
1267. # [18:09] <@fr0zenice> Others might want to check, but I see no difference when changing via the inspector. :/
1268. # [18:09] <desbenoit> fr0zenice, I'll have a look at this tomorrow.
1269. # [18:09] <@fr0zenice> thanks :)
1270. # [18:11] <@mdel> just a note, I always include -webkit-font-smoothing, and I still see artifacts under Ubuntu
1271. # [18:11] <@mdel> it could be an issue with Unity or something wacky like that
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1277. # [18:15] <@Sandkorn> (sidenote to that, never (really) had trouble with artifacts within Kubuntu .. so it really might be unity)
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1279. # [18:15] <odinho> Uh, why is WikiSysop answering questions. Whoever does that should prolly get his/her own account :P
1280. # [18:16] <@Garbee> odinho, It is SSO issues.
1281. # [18:16] <@Garbee> Being worked on.
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1283. # [18:16] <odinho> Garbee: Ookay! :-)
1284. # [18:16] <@Garbee> It is users logged in, but due to SSO issues the Q&A doesn't read their account. So they become WikiSysops.
1285. # [18:16] <@Garbee> Odd, we know. Been an issue since launch. There are plenty of other issues dealing with SSO too.
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1287. # [18:17] <@Garbee> Please be patient while it gets figured out.
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1289. # [18:19] <@Sandkorn> Right.. 6pm and customers start calling.... i'm on my way home.. cya tomorrow folks :-)
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1291. # [18:20] <@fr0zenice> bb
1292. # [18:21] * Quits: mattkelly (~mattwkell@drupal.org/user/64049/view) (Quit: mattkelly)
1293. # [18:21] <odinho> I'm very patient. :) The QA site looks very nice. If it's the open source qa engine, most themes are not as nice. -- But there doesn't seem to be any ordering. Is it meant to be by time, and not by points/relevance?
1294. # [18:22] <@Garbee> It is Q2A.
1295. # [18:22] <odinho> I.e. known and worked on, or wontfix?
1296. # [18:22] <@Garbee> Time is also the sort order.
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1299. # [18:26] <odinho> 2010 -> # An integrated (database-wide) implementation of this is on the roadmap. # hehe
1300. # [18:26] <odinho> There's a small patch for it, for th elocal pages -> http://www.question2answer.org/qa/330/sorting-by-votes#a334
1301. # [18:27] <@fr0zenice> That's for an old verison.
1302. # [18:27] <@fr0zenice> There's an admin setting now, but no user setting.
1303. # [18:27] <odinho> Saw that after I posted it :-) Ohwell. I can read the full page. I was just surprised at the default ordering.
1304. # [18:28] <odinho> Doesn't strike me as the best to have a -6 answer at the top :-)
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1313. # [18:43] <nickster> Does anyone have a good example of What the CSS examples should look like? Should they look like the MDN examples?
1314. # [18:43] <nickster> I was looking at the page specifically
1315. # [18:43] <nickster> http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/css/linear-gradient
1316. # [18:43] <nickster> and it comes from Microsofts Developer network
1317. # [18:43] <@Garbee> Examples as in example code or example code running?
1318. # [18:44] <nickster> The MDN I was asking about was mozillas https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/CSS/linear-gradient
1319. # [18:44] <nickster> Example code running
1320. # [18:44] <nickster> I mean like if I were to edit this page
1321. # [18:44] <@Garbee> I don't think the system actually lets example code run just yet...
1322. # [18:44] <nickster> How does Web Platform want it to look
1323. # [18:44] <nickster> ah I see
1324. # [18:44] <@Garbee> I don't think it has come up yet.
1325. # [18:44] <@Garbee> There is a way that runs code, but it is actually a bug.
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1327. # [18:45] <@Garbee> A form entry for code examples to be run would be nice for CSS...
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1329. # [18:45] <@Garbee> Or even HTML if it removed scripts.
1330. # [18:46] <@Garbee> I'm going to check through some of the documentation we have and see if there is any mention of having demo code run. If not then I will file a bug report for an ehancement request.
1331. # [18:46] <nickster> Ok cool!
1332. # [18:46] <nickster> Thanks
1333. # [18:47] <nickster> I've been looking around WebPlatform and there aren't any examples that I have come across
1334. # [18:47] <@Garbee> Because I don't think they technically exist yet.
1335. # [18:47] <nickster> Yeah
1336. # [18:47] <@Garbee> The only way know works is a bug, since the code shouldn't actually run.
1337. # [18:47] <@Garbee> But in this case we want specific examples to be allowed to be executed.
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1339. # [18:49] <nickster> Ok I'll keep an eye out for changes
1340. # [18:49] <@Garbee> Just so you know, it could take a while for that kind of feature.
1341. # [18:50] <@Garbee> But, it will be nice if it were possible in the form.
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1343. # [18:50] <nickster> Ok no problem.
1344. # [18:52] <nickster> Yeah I think it would be a cool feature to add
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1346. # [18:52] <@Garbee> Especially for CSS/HTML where you can do some nice demo's with not a lot of space to show how things work.
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1361. # [19:04] <phwd> Under http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/Main_Page > Stay in touch there is
1362. # [19:04] <phwd> Join our Q&A
1363. # [19:04] <phwd> Which I think was "Join our forum" previously
1364. # [19:05] <phwd> maybe wording needs a little changing or too trivial?
1365. # [19:05] <@Garbee> phwd, Forum callouts are becomming Q&A.
1366. # [19:05] <phwd> "Forum callouts"?
1367. # [19:05] <@Garbee> Yea, well people complained at launch so, it is being converted over.
1368. # [19:05] <@Garbee> References in place of Callout.
1369. # [19:06] <@NotTomato> phwd, I changed that after we started changing all "forums" to Q&A, I was wondering if it would be okay to make a test main page though. Do you think anyone would care?
1370. # [19:06] <@Garbee> Test main page for what?
1371. # [19:06] <phwd> I'm not bothered about forum vs Q&A, just the wording of the sentence that's all
1372. # [19:06] <@NotTomato> Making a better main page.
1373. # [19:06] <@fr0zenice> You have some changes in mind, NotTomato?
1374. # [19:06] <@Garbee> Yea, just make a demo.
1375. # [19:07] <@NotTomato> I just think the main page is kind of boring to look at, and all the important links are on the bottom instead of top.
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1379. # [19:07] <@Garbee> There is convo in the Mailing List already on updating it.
1380. # [19:07] <@Garbee> It also isn't *too* helpful to find content.
1381. # [19:07] <@NotTomato> Yeah.
1382. # [19:07] <@Garbee> Which needs to be addressed.
1383. # [19:07] <@NotTomato> Hi Ryan_Lane.
1384. # [19:08] <@Ryan_Lane> howdy
1385. # [19:08] <@fr0zenice> Do it, let us know when you got something nice. :)
1386. # [19:08] <@fr0zenice> hey Ryan
1387. # [19:09] <@Garbee> Ryan_Lane, I hit this error when I was cleaning up the Q&A. Just one post: http://pastebin.com/anVs0yrd
1388. # [19:09] <@Ryan_Lane> looks like an application issue to me
1389. # [19:09] <@Garbee> I'm filing a bug report now.
1390. # [19:10] <@NotTomato> Where do the developers hide all of the template css?
1391. # [19:10] * @Ryan_Lane only really does infrastructure
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1393. # [19:10] <@Garbee> I'm posting a bug under QA.
1394. # [19:11] <@fr0zenice> NotTomato: What template css?
1395. # [19:12] * Quits: stevegill (~stevengil@216.127.117.10) (Quit: stevegill)
1396. # [19:12] <@NotTomato> Like, for the flags template, it says the template is using the div ID "flags", but none of the CSS is in the Common.css
1397. # [19:12] <@NotTomato> http://docs.webplatform.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Flags&action=edit
1398. # [19:12] <@NotTomato> "flags-hilevel"
1399. # [19:13] <@NotTomato> stuff like that.
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1402. # [19:14] <@NotTomato> Maybe firebug will tell me.
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1406. # [19:15] <phwd> also if the WPD:FAQ is "relatively" "sorta" "almost" permanent maybe pushing to the top menu (Docs Q&A Blog Chat FAQ?) might be a good idea? Or not
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1414. # [19:22] <@eternicode> I see we've gotten rid of the WYSIWYG editor in the Q&A -- should we infer that markdown (or something else?) is good to go, or what?
1415. # [19:22] <@fr0zenice> NotTomato: http://docs.webplatform.org/w/skins/webplatform/screen.css
1416. # [19:23] <Kovah> I <3 Markdown!
1417. # [19:24] <@NotTomato> I saw it in there fr0zenice, now I'm sad that it's not separated, I was writing an e-mail asking if we could fix it.
1418. # [19:24] <@Garbee> eternicode, Plain text.
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1420. # [19:24] <@eternicode> was afraid of that :/
1421. # [19:25] <@eternicode> a'ight
1422. # [19:25] <@Garbee> What else do you need?
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1425. # [19:25] <@Garbee> It is a Q&A system not a site builder.
1426. # [19:25] <@eternicode> quotes (blockquote), specifically.
1427. # [19:25] <@Garbee> A few features are useful.
1428. # [19:25] <@_WiZZarD> <Garbee> It is a Q&A system not a site builder.
1429. # [19:25] <@_WiZZarD> qft
1430. # [19:25] <@eternicode> and code blocks would come in handy, I imagine.
1431. # [19:25] <@Garbee> Maybe we could look into modding that only allows certain markdown.
1432. # [19:26] <Kovah> Bold, italic, underline?
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1434. # [19:26] <@Garbee> OL/UL are two great featurs.
1435. # [19:26] <@eternicode> linked text would be nice, but I can understand not wanting that.
1436. # [19:26] <@Garbee> Kovah, I think those just get annoying. But do server a technical purpose.
1437. # [19:26] <@eternicode> text-decorations are nonessential :)
1438. # [19:27] <@fr0zenice> that reminds me, shepazu: I haven't found an extension or similar that would allow answer-sorting per user.
1439. # [19:28] <shepazu> fr0zenice: I could ask on their IRC channel or message boards
1440. # [19:29] <@fr0zenice> you could give it a try
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1442. # [19:29] <@eternicode> I'm okay with losing B/I/U, but code blocks, blockquotes, and inline links would all be very useful in answers.
1443. # [19:31] <shepazu> eternicode: we might be able to allow only certain types of rich text
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1445. # [19:32] <@fr0zenice> not out-of-the-box though
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1450. # [19:36] <Kovah> One question: is there an docs article with a list of most used CMS? If not, would it be useful?
1451. # [19:37] <shepazu> Kovah: I think that sort of thing is best kept out… there are other sources for lists of such things
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1453. # [19:37] <@Garbee> Yea, everyone has their own most used.
1454. # [19:37] <shepazu> in fact, wikipedia has good lists...
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1467. # [19:52] <nickster> @Garbee yeah if the CSS/HTML demos could be small and easy to follow I think they would be great.
1468. # [19:52] <nickster> If there anything I can do to help speed up the process?
1469. # [19:53] <@Garbee> Not really unless you wait for the source to be hosted and code the patch yourself. I think they should have a way of doing it though, not too sure of the system and what it can do in that context.
1470. # [19:53] * Quits: creativeboulder (~creativeb@c-67-176-95-156.hsd1.co.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
1471. # [19:53] <nickster> Yeah
1472. # [19:53] <nickster> I'll wait and see what happens
1473. # [19:56] <nickster> I'm excited for the project I think this can be a really good resource
1474. # [19:59] * Quits: bloof (spinefru@fuckpoker.org) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1475. # [19:59] <@NotTomato> Hi sonotos.
1476. # [20:00] <sonotos> hi NotTomato
1477. # [20:00] <shepazu> nickster: don't just wait… help us! :)
1478. # [20:00] <sonotos> how are you?
1479. # [20:01] <@NotTomato> Good.
1480. # [20:01] <@NotTomato> I'm pretty sure none of my e-mails go to the mailing list.
1481. # [20:01] <@NotTomato> But oh well.
1482. # [20:01] <@NotTomato> How are you?
1483. # [20:01] <@Garbee> NotTomato, They aren't.
1484. # [20:01] <nickster> @shepazu that's what I'm trying to do! Going through the help documentation
1485. # [20:01] <shepazu> nickster++ :)
1486. # [20:01] <@Garbee> shepazu, Could you look into Tomato's emails too?
1487. # [20:01] <@Garbee> His might be caught up like mine were.
1488. # [20:01] <sonotos> NotTomato: better
1489. # [20:02] <nickster> shepazu: do you know anwywhere I should be starting at?
1490. # [20:02] <@Garbee> http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Getting_Started
1491. # [20:02] <@Garbee> http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:To-Do_List
1492. # [20:02] <shepazu> nickster: what's your focus area?
1493. # [20:02] <nickster> That's where I've been looking right now
1494. # [20:03] <sonotos> do we have allready a "don't do" page for javascript? didn't find any last time i searched
1495. # [20:03] <nickster> HTML/CSS
1496. # [20:03] <nickster> I guess documentation writing
1497. # [20:03] <nickster> or updating
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1513. # [20:20] <ajt_> Hi everyone, my name is Andrew and I love the internet.
1514. # [20:21] <grzesag> hi, who doesn't
1515. # [20:21] <@ravenzz> hi Andrew, welcome
1516. # [20:21] <ajt_> thanks
1517. # [20:21] <ajt_> The site looks really awesome. This is a great looking MW instance.
1518. # [20:22] <hapi> http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Mozilla-adds-sweetener-to-JavaScript-1729572.html
1519. # [20:22] <@Garbee> Ok, the Developer Tools page for Chrome. Should it be Chrome or Google Chrome?
1520. # [20:22] <@ravenzz> hapi yeah seems sweet! :P
1521. # [20:23] <@ravenzz> I watched the presentation
1522. # [20:23] <@ravenzz> Garbee Google Chrome
1523. # [20:24] <hapi> interest initiation
1524. # [20:24] <hapi> sorry for my english
1525. # [20:25] <@ravenzz> yes that would be extremely powerful
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1527. # [20:26] <@ravenzz> but it will take a while until there will be a stable and solid version I guess
1528. # [20:27] * cpg is now known as cpg|away
1529. # [20:27] <hapi> at least,i have time to prepare it :)
1530. # [20:28] <@ravenzz> exactly, I would like to play with it sooner or later...it is a matter of free time
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1543. # [20:41] * Parts: say2joe (~say2joe@204.56.108.2)
1544. # [20:43] <@Garbee> shepazu, Is it ok if I make Developer Tools a new root category? REF: Proposed Site Structure - http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Architecture
1545. # [20:43] <@Garbee> Parts of it will be tutorials though...
1546. # [20:44] <@Garbee> Maybe those parts I could crosslink into /tutorials/dev_tools
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1551. # [20:48] <shepazu> Garbee: I'd rather have it in tutorials, or as a child of some higher category… not sure what
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1554. # [20:49] <@Garbee> Hang on a sec and let me update my gdoc with what I'm thinking....
1555. # [20:51] <@_WiZZarD> I'll be gone for tonight ; cya all tomorrow
1556. # [20:51] <shepazu> later, _cheney
1557. # [20:52] <shepazu> oop
1558. # [20:52] <shepazu> later, _WiZZarD
1559. # [20:52] * Quits: seutje (~seutje@drupal.org/user/264148/view) (Remote host closed the connection)
1560. # [20:54] <@Garbee> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cmlYgFpNCZIY4EMbyIDvJZpjyYonMjWw-HeXgvN50TY/edit --tweaked layout for the Chrome setup and new example URL in the opening paragraph.
1561. # [20:54] <@Garbee> So Dev Tools would be its own root to cover anything it could possibly do, but the tutorials are linked over into the tutorials section.
1562. # [20:54] <@Garbee> I simply don't see anywhere else all the Dev Tools stuff would fit into the categorization.
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1565. # [21:00] <puppion> Does anyone know what happened to the search functionality in chrome's inspect element as of version 22?
1566. # [21:00] <@Garbee> puppion, I think it got removed.
1567. # [21:01] <@Garbee> I'd check their Google Group for that kind of stuff.
1568. # [21:01] <puppion> why? it was really usefull
1569. # [21:01] <@Garbee> Ctrl + F
1570. # [21:02] <@Garbee> And Ctrl + Shift + F
1571. # [21:02] <nickster> Yeah it got moved to the bottom
1572. # [21:02] <@Garbee> Yea, the second one is what you want.
1573. # [21:02] * Joins: leprosys (~leprosys@unaffiliated/leprosys)
1574. # [21:02] <@Garbee> nickster, What was moved to the bottom?
1575. # [21:02] <@Garbee> Not the search.
1576. # [21:03] <nickster> The search box I kept hitting ctrl-f thinking I would see it pop up at the top
1577. # [21:03] <nickster> it pops up at the bottom
1578. # [21:03] <@Garbee> That is quick find in the current resource, it has always been there tmk.
1579. # [21:03] <@Garbee> Ctrl + Shift + F does what the old search box did which is search across all sources.
1580. # [21:03] <@Garbee> iric.
1581. # [21:03] <@Garbee> iirc*
1582. # [21:03] * cpg|away is now known as cpg
1583. # [21:03] <@Garbee> Nothing was moved though. The search box in the upper right hand corner was literally removed.
1584. # [21:04] <puppion> thank you! silly i didn't try that...
1585. # [21:04] <@Garbee> puppion, Settings key > Shortcuts. ;)
1586. # [21:05] <nickster> That's a lot better!
1587. # [21:05] <puppion> because i didn't see the box at the top, i figured there was no search any more...
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1589. # [21:05] <@Garbee> Now now, the chome devs know better than to tick us off like that.
1590. # [21:05] <@ravenzz> puppion bad choice anyway
1591. # [21:06] <@Garbee> Would have been nice to have some warning though.
1592. # [21:09] <@ravenzz> what dev tools are and why are your friends or something :)
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1594. # [21:09] <@Garbee> ?
1595. # [21:10] <@Garbee> You lost me ravenzz.
1596. # [21:10] <@ravenzz> just a random suggestion on the copy
1597. # [21:10] <@ravenzz> oh I am talking about the spreadsheet you pasted
1598. # [21:10] <@ravenzz> before
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1600. # [21:12] <@ravenzz> will the Panels' subsections cover advanced topics?
1601. # [21:13] <@ravenzz> if so I would rename the Advanced one into "Misc" or something
1602. # [21:13] <amirouche> happy pycon :-)
1603. # [21:14] <@Garbee> ravenzz, No, Advanced isn't a part of panels.
1604. # [21:14] <@Garbee> Panels covers down to console.
1605. # [21:14] * Joins: say2joe (~say2joe@204.56.108.2)
1606. # [21:14] <@ravenzz> I know
1607. # [21:14] <amirouche> Q: it it possible to work with both os.fork and multiprocessing.Manager.Queue ?
1608. # [21:14] <@Garbee> Advanced is extending beyond the built in tools and learning how to use them more effectively.
1609. # [21:14] <@ravenzz> that's not what I am saying
1610. # [21:14] <amirouche> oups sorry
1611. # [21:15] <@ravenzz> I would define Advanced a tutorial about Profiling with the Dev Tools for instance
1612. # [21:15] <@ravenzz> keyboard shourtcuts aren't an advanced topic
1613. # [21:16] <@Garbee> https://developers.google.com/chrome-developer-tools/docs/overview ---Panels coverage comes from this documentation.
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1616. # [21:16] <@Garbee> Advanced is just a meta thing to store odd things in that doc. It isn't going to be that actual structure most likely when the page is made.
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1618. # [21:16] <@ravenzz> ah ok so it is just a quick reference
1619. # [21:17] <@ravenzz> eh I agree, that's why I said "misc"
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1634. # [21:52] <@paul_irish> plamoni: js "versions" are a mozilla specific thing. no other browsers use them as a thing. even ES versions have little influence on priority of implentation
1635. # [21:53] <@Garbee> Evening Paul.
1636. # [21:53] <@Garbee> Good^^
1637. # [21:54] <@Garbee> Er, afternoon. Wow my clock got messed up.
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1643. # [22:00] <pzich> it deopped you?
1644. # [22:05] <@Garbee> Is requesting content addition a proper use of the comment system? I think it could be.
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1676. # [23:05] * @Ryan_Lane waves
1677. # [23:06] * @Garbee sees a hand but the door closes before I can get a good look.
1678. # [23:07] <@Garbee> I'm also starting to hate Chrome...
1679. # [23:07] <@Garbee> Time to go Canary again.
1680. # [23:07] * Quits: stevegill (~stevengil@216.127.117.11) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1681. # [23:07] <pdr> Garbee: why?
1682. # [23:07] <pdr> Garbee: :'(
1683. # [23:08] <@Garbee> pdr, Crashing so much. A few times a day when I'm messing with tabs. I am pretty sure it is a Win 8 thing with Chrome.
1684. # [23:09] <pdr> Garbee: aahh, I wonder if the Win8 stuff is tested yet. Can you file a bug?
1685. # [23:09] <@Garbee> pdr, I know they are working on it. It has improved loads in the past few reelases.
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1687. # [23:09] <@Garbee> releases*
1688. # [23:09] <@Garbee> Just a few little odd things left to fill out. I will check the bugtracker though if I can find it.
1689. # [23:10] <@Garbee> See if there is anything I can do to help debug anymore.
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1696. # [23:17] <@Garbee> I'm starting to think I should just add Developer Tools as a section to the tutorials for the browser stuff that we are actually going to do a tutorial for and fine somewhere else for the list of actual programs/sites that developers use.
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1712. # [23:35] <u89> v
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1721. # [23:52] * MNk is now known as mnk
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1728. # [23:57] <mnk> hey!
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1730. # [23:58] <shepazu> hi, mnk
1731. # [23:59] * Quits: BillCriswell (~billcrisw@173-161-182-147-Philadelphia.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
1732. # [23:59] <nickster> hi mnk
1733. # Session Close: Tue Oct 16 00:00:00 2012

The end :)