/irc-logs / freenode / #webplatform / 2012-10-16 / end

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# Session Start: Tue Oct 16 00:00:00 2012
# Session Ident: #webplatform
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# [00:09] <drublic> hi all
# [00:10] <drublic> if i want to add @supports as a page in the documentation what's the easiest way to do it? or… is it even necessary?
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# [00:17] <@divya> def necessary drublic
# [00:18] <drublic> divya: I'm on it but have to get around the interface and getting started aso…
# [00:18] <@divya> drublic: just let people know what difficulties you encouter in the mailing list.
# [00:19] <drublic> divya: got a link to subscribe? plz
# [00:19] <@divya> public-webplatform@w3.org
# [00:19] <@divya> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webplatform/
# [00:19] <drublic> divya: ty
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# [00:54] <hooloovoo> I think i remember seeing something about Javascript tutorial/documentation guidelines on the mailinglist. Did i imagine that or am i too sloppy to find it?
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# [00:55] <@Garbee> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webplatform/2012Oct/0077.html
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# [00:55] <hooloovoo> Garbee: Nice, thanks.
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# [01:03] <@arkhi> Hello...
# [01:03] <@Garbee> Yea?
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# [02:29] <@arkhi> Good morning all
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# [05:44] <huimin> Hello?
# [05:44] <@Garbee> Yea.
# [05:44] <@arkhi> Hola huimin
# [05:45] <huimin> Ha, glad to meet u guys.
# [05:45] <clarkpan> hi guys
# [05:45] <clarkpan> and gals
# [05:46] <clarkpan> if you do a task on the 'Most Wanted Tasks' page
# [05:46] <clarkpan> are you meant to tell someone or something? or just update that page to remove the task you just did
# [05:46] <@Garbee> Just update it.
# [05:46] <@Garbee> Please.
# [05:47] <clarkpan> Ok
# [05:47] <clarkpan> Another question.. that checkbox that says 'This is a minor edit'...
# [05:48] <clarkpan> what constitutes a 'minor edit'?
# [05:48] <@Garbee> grammar or layout tweaks.
# [05:48] <@arkhi> clarkpan: typo, etc…
# [05:48] <@Garbee> Beyond that I'm not really sure.
# [05:48] <clarkpan> Alright thanks
# [05:48] <@arkhi> As long as the meaning or content doesn’t change, I‘d say.
# [05:49] <@arkhi> by content, I mean adding or removing.
# [05:49] <clarkpan> Sorting a table would be minor then
# [05:49] <clarkpan> ?
# [05:49] <@arkhi> I would say so. :)
# [05:50] <clarkpan> coolios
# [05:50] <@Garbee> Yea, sorting MIME types in minor.
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# [05:50] <clarkpan> yay first edit!
# [05:50] <andyfitz_> just a little tip for anyone using empathy or adium to connect to IRC.... the webkit view they use for chat can accept some pretty complex CSS theme instructions. Responsive chat log FTW
# [05:51] <@arkhi> Is that purple based clients in general, andyfitz_?
# [05:51] <andyfitz_> when I fullscreen the chat, the fonts go up to 3em with healthy margins :)
# [05:51] <@Garbee> sudo apt-get remove --purge empathy
# [05:51] <andyfitz_> arkhi: I don't think pidgin and others use webkit for their chat view
# [05:53] <andyfitz_> Garbee: yum install empathy && yum --releasever=18 --disableplugin=presto --nogpgcheck distro-sync && echo ;-)
# [05:53] <@Garbee> andyfitz_, Too much work there to remove empathy.
# [05:54] <andyfitz_> but seriously, you can base64 encode SVG's into this thing. I've never had a good looking IRC client.. time to fix that
# [05:54] <@Garbee> Why would you need to encode SVGs into chat?
# [05:55] <andyfitz_> for sweet graphics upon status, action and other notifications
# [05:56] <@Garbee> Oh ok. I thought you meant sending base64 through the chat and was about to get worried...
# [05:56] <andyfitz_> err, no....
# [05:56] <@Garbee> clarkpan, Thanks for the summaries too.
# [05:57] <andyfitz_> if a client ran a base64 image there'd be a world of exploits happening
# [05:57] <clarkpan> Its like source control... never commit without a message!
# [05:57] <@Garbee> Yea, that plus a ton of apparent spam.
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# [05:58] <shepazu> hey, andyfitz_!
# [05:58] <andyfitz_> lo shepazu
# [05:58] <shepazu> you're Andy Fitzsimon, right?
# [05:58] <andyfitz_> i am...
# [05:59] <andyfitz_> shepazu: do we know eachother in the meatspace ?
# [05:59] <shepazu> we've met a few times… I'm Doug Schepers, from W3C… we've talked at LGM, I think
# [05:59] <shepazu> I'm an SVG guy
# [05:59] <andyfitz_> ah! G'day Doug
# [06:00] <shepazu> howdy
# [06:00] <shepazu> nice to see you here
# [06:00] * andyfitz_ is learning IRC nicks.. it's been quite a while since Ive visited #svg
# [06:00] <mike5w3c> clarkpan: good add http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/concepts/internet_and_web/mime_types
# [06:01] <mike5w3c> concepts page is evolving pretty nicely
# [06:01] <andyfitz_> thanks. hows the docs coming along?
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# [06:02] <andyfitz_> shepazu: I noticed an iOS issue (probably deliberate) where the iphone versions of safari will render SVG filters but the ipad(3?) safari won't.. Where on webplatform.org will that sort of discussion exist ?
# [06:03] <mike5w3c> shepazu: wiki personal-info page don't let me leave birthday blank
# [06:03] * andyfitz_ guesses http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/svg/browser_support
# [06:04] <shepazu> andyfitz_: great question… I think it should probably start on the forums, or in comments on the SVG filters pages, but should ultimately be integrated into the browser support tables for each filter
# [06:04] <shepazu> we need to sort out which ones are or are not supported
# [06:04] <shepazu> mike5w3c: yeah, isn't that annoying… I'll see if I can fix that
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# [06:06] <andyfitz_> righteo
# [06:12] <clarkpan> hmm why doesn't apple have their own page in stewards?
# [06:13] <@Garbee> clarkpan, They opted to not have it there.
# [06:13] <@Garbee> We will never know why.
# [06:13] <clarkpan> yea, who wouldn't want some free PR
# [06:14] <shepazu> clarkpan: Apple. :P
# [06:15] <clarkpan> too good for us!
# [06:15] * Parts: andyfitz_ (andyfitz@nat/redhat/x-gqjffwyqlddijwrp)
# [06:16] <shepazu> clarkpan: hey, I played with your MIME table, hope you don't mind… I made it sortable by each column, and put spaces after the commas, because I'm OCD :)
# [06:17] <@Garbee> Wait a minute, you can make it sortable?
# [06:17] <clarkpan> not really my table, i just saw something on the list i could do in 15 minutes
# [06:17] <shepazu> nice
# [06:18] <shepazu> btw, it's super easy to make tables sortable with class="sortable"
# [06:18] <clarkpan> hmm class sortable... handy
# [06:18] <@Garbee> At least that list is doing something.
# [06:18] <shepazu> yes, I love it
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# [07:13] <desbenoit> Bonjour
# [07:13] <desbenoit> Hi!
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# [07:23] <@arkhi> Bonjour desbenoit. :)
# [07:23] <desbenoit> Salut arkhi !
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# [08:13] <@_WiZZarD> good morning all
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# [08:15] <@arkhi> Good morning _WiZZarD
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# [08:15] <@_Rainulf> Good morning, it's 2AM here =D
# [08:16] <@_WiZZarD> whehe
# [08:17] <@_WiZZarD> 8 in the morning
# [08:17] <@_WiZZarD> time to head for work ;)
# [08:17] <@_WiZZarD> cya in an hour or so
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# [08:42] <eighty4> God morning _WiZZarD and arkhi
# [08:43] <@arkhi> Hola eighty4
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# [09:08] <@ravenzz> morning
# [09:08] <@_WiZZarD> morning ravenzz
# [09:09] <@ravenzz> hey wiz sup
# [09:11] <@arkhi> Hey ravenzz
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# [09:13] <@ravenzz> hey arkhi! I saw the article about the css coding guidelines
# [09:14] <@ravenzz> you're pretty fast :P
# [09:15] <@arkhi> I mostly copied what Necolas et alii did. :)
# [09:16] <@arkhi> Just cleaned and decided on a few things…
# [09:18] <@_WiZZarD> nothing much ravenzz, just sifting through the bugzilla a bit when i have time :)
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# [09:23] <@Grephix> morning all! :)
# [09:26] <eighty4> ravenzz: link?
# [09:28] <eighty4> morning Grephix
# [09:29] <@arkhi> Morning Grephix
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# [10:06] <@ravenzz> eighty4 sorry I was at a meeting, http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Content/coding_guidelines/css
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# [10:12] <eighty4> ravenzz: no worries :) strange that search didn't find it for me searching for "CSS Coding Guidelines"
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# [10:14] <@ravenzz> eh if you remove the "Content pages" filter
# [10:14] <@ravenzz> you will have it in the search results
# [10:15] <@ravenzz> actually it should search Everything by default imo
# [10:15] <eighty4> right… stupid
# [10:15] <@ravenzz> stupid wiki :p
# [10:15] <eighty4> I didn't even realize that was a filter
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# [10:17] <eighty4> I also have these misplaced bullets http://d.pr/i/Cat6
# [10:18] <eighty4> I'd strongly suggest a list-style:none on .mw-search-formheader div.search-types ul li
# [10:19] <eighty4> as well as maybe a .current {font-weight: bold;}
# [10:19] <eighty4> but I guess I should add a ticket about this
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# [10:20] <@ravenzz> exactly
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# [10:30] <eighty4> Ok, if anyones up for it https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=19546 <-- is it filed ok? I really suck att writing bug reports
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# [10:31] <@ravenzz> uhm I think that the importance could be minor, is not a big deal I mean
# [10:32] <eighty4> Depends on how important you find the search to be :)
# [10:32] <eighty4> But I changed it
# [10:32] <@ravenzz> also is that a common behavior? or it happens only on the search page?
# [10:32] <eighty4> If the site is properly structured search shouldn't be important. But given that I wasn't able to find such a simple things as the Guidelines...
# [10:33] <eighty4> I haven't seen that type of list anywhere else
# [10:33] <@ravenzz> ok so provide a context and a link (URL)
# [10:34] <@ravenzz> context/description, so if one read the ticket will be able to understand what feature are you talking about
# [10:36] <@ravenzz> after that I would open a new ticket about the search, where you can explain the problem you had and how unclear is the filter feature of the search page, (+ suggest to search Everything by default)
# [10:37] <@ravenzz> but maybe for this you can ask chrismills directly
# [10:37] <@ravenzz> here on irc
# [10:37] <eighty4> will do.
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# [10:37] <@ravenzz> back to work ;)
# [10:38] <eighty4> ravenzz: just one thing. Where would I add the contect?
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# [10:38] <@ravenzz> contect ?
# [10:39] <eighty4> *context
# [10:39] <eighty4> Just as a new comment?
# [10:39] <@ravenzz> I think so
# [10:40] <@ravenzz> I don't remember if you can edit your own comments
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# [10:43] <eighty4> There we go, if the one planing to fix it have any questions they can just ask. I guess I won't have access to the source so I can create a proper patch?
# [10:43] <@ravenzz> no we can't
# [10:44] <@ravenzz> but they will open source the theme at some point if I undestood correctly
# [10:44] <@ravenzz> so people can contribute/patch directly
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# [10:47] <eighty4> cool
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# [10:49] <PhistucK> Has anyone noticed that pages such as this one - http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/html/elements/audio - are missing a lot of content due to the fact that tables are not displayed within section templates?
# [10:51] <PhistucK> This affects a lot (if not all) of MSDN content, the content looks almost nonexistent due to this bug, while there is actually a lot of content in the page (a table of events, properties, methods and so on)
# [10:51] <PhistucK> *in the source
# [10:52] <dontcallmedom> PhistucK, I have indeed noticed it, and fixed a few of those
# [10:52] <dontcallmedom> that being said, the table of events, properties and methods are out of place AFAICT
# [10:53] <dontcallmedom> i.e. they would belong to the DOM interface of the said element, not to the element as a piece of markup
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# [10:53] <PhistucK> How did you fix it? at the content level of at the template level?
# [10:53] <PhistucK> Yes, I agree, but this is all over the place
# [10:53] <dontcallmedom> at the content level; there is unfortunately no possible fix at the template level
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# [10:53] <dontcallmedom> this is something that a wikibot could help with, though
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# [10:54] <PhistucK> So should I just move the content out of the template? How will the edit form show it afterwards?
# [10:54] <PhistucK> (Edit form, edit wizard, however you call it)
# [10:55] <dontcallmedom> no, the fix is not to move it out of the template (sorry I was not clear)
# [10:55] <PhistucK> Then?
# [10:55] <dontcallmedom> the fix is to replace the pipe sign | used in the table with {{!}}
# [10:55] <PhistucK> Oh
# [10:55] <PhistucK> So simple. ;)
# [10:55] <dontcallmedom> right :)
# [10:55] <dontcallmedom> see http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Manual_Of_Style/Gotchas
# [10:56] <PhistucK> Hehe. So will a wikibot do that?
# [10:56] <PhistucK> (Not sure what a wikibot is)
# [10:56] <PhistucK> *actually is
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# [10:56] <dontcallmedom> maybe; I have no idea if wikibots have been considered so far, or if anyone is working on it
# [10:56] <PhistucK> So meanwhile, just do it manually?
# [10:57] <dontcallmedom> a wikibot is bot that runs through the wiki to apply a set of predetermined actions
# [10:57] <dontcallmedom> that would be my advice; these pages need overall clean up in any case
# [10:57] <dontcallmedom> (e.g. adding standardization status, move specs to the relevant spec section, avoid the go.microsoft.com link, etc)
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# [10:58] <@_WiZZarD> if they need a fix up, mark the page as such when you don't have time to do it yourselve
# [10:58] <dontcallmedom> well, they are all marked with "Clean up" already I think
# [11:01] <@_WiZZarD> well, then it should get done eventually
# [11:04] <PhistucK> Is there a bug about the | within templates issue? can you create one (I have no user, if you do, that would speed it up)?
# [11:05] <PhistucK> I guess some automatic script should be created to take care of all of this at once
# [11:06] <@_WiZZarD> PhistucK: what exactly is the issue?
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# [11:08] <PhistucK> In section templates (for example, the "Main Content" template), any content that includes a table is trimmed at the first pipe
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# [11:08] <PhistucK> Well, I guess any content that includes a pipe in general, no only tables
# [11:08] <@_WiZZarD> hm, that shouldnt be happening :)
# [11:08] <chaasof> hello
# [11:09] <@_WiZZarD> I'll add it to my 'to check' list
# [11:09] <@_WiZZarD> see what's wrong and file a bug for it
# [11:09] <PhistucK> Right. Like dontcallmedom wrote, it should be replaced with {{!}}
# [11:09] <PhistucK> Which resolves it immediately.
# [11:09] <dontcallmedom> _WiZZarD, see http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Manual_Of_Style/Gotchas
# [11:10] <PhistucK> *It = the pipe. :)
# [11:10] <@_WiZZarD> tnx dontcallmedom
# [11:10] <PhistucK> Well, all of the pipes, actually
# [11:10] <@arkhi> Hello chaasof
# [11:11] <@_WiZZarD> still: is it worth a bug?
# [11:11] * @_WiZZarD doesnt mind filing it
# [11:11] <PhistucK> It affects almost all of the MSDN content, I believe, so some automatic fix up is required here
# [11:12] <PhistucK> It would be a waste of time to go through all of the 3200 pages manually...
# [11:16] <PhistucK> I think there are two required actions here.
# [11:17] <PhistucK> 1. Automatic fix up of existing content (replace | with {{!}})
# [11:17] <PhistucK> Only within templates, of course.
# [11:18] <PhistucK> 2. Add some JavaScript on formedit submit that replaces | with {{!}} in order to avoid this "gotcha" for any future content.
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# [11:22] <@_WiZZarD> so, a bug / enhancement is in place
# [11:22] <@_WiZZarD> thank you
# [11:22] <@_WiZZarD> :)
# [11:23] <PhistucK> Thank you :)
# [11:23] <@_WiZZarD> I'll look it up and file a report later today for you
# [11:23] <@_WiZZarD> you want mail confirmation of it?
# [11:23] <PhistucK> Cool, thank you.
# [11:24] <PhistucK> Hm, yeah, that would be nice, only if it takes a second ;) my nickname @gmail.com
# [11:25] <@_WiZZarD> noted, thanks
# [11:27] <PhistucK> Is there any way I can help with these actions
# [11:27] <PhistucK> *?
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# [11:28] <PhistucK> (Writing the JavaScript code, writing an automated script (using what language?))
# [11:31] <dontcallmedom> re automated script, a search for "mediawiki bot" would probably get you in the right direction
# [11:32] <dontcallmedom> (but I've never done it myself, so I can't be of much actual help)
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# [11:40] <@_WiZZarD> PhistucK: Don't know, you probably can help out
# [11:40] <@_WiZZarD> I need to get back to you on that
# [11:40] <@_WiZZarD> Thanks for the offer though
# [11:41] <PhistucK> :) Whatever can get this done faster is better
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# [11:48] <@Sandkorn> Good Morning folks!
# [11:48] <@arkhi> Good evening folks… :)
# [11:48] <@_WiZZarD> morning Sandkorn
# [11:48] * Parts: @arkhi (~fabien@222.44.41.33) ("ISON chrismills dontcallmedom")
# [11:48] <@Sandkorn> :-)
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# [12:39] <PhistucK> When I go to http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/dom/Node
# [12:39] <PhistucK> It has properties and methods
# [12:39] <PhistucK> Where do they come from?
# [12:40] <PhistucK> The "Edit source" pages does not show them and I see nothing else...
# [12:40] <PhistucK> And it does not subclass anything
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# [12:41] <PhistucK> Any clue?
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# [12:43] <PhistucK> I accidentally left. If someone replied, please, reply again.
# [12:45] <PhistucK> Oh, they probably come from the properties page -
# [12:45] <PhistucK> http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/Special:Browse/dom-2FNode
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# [12:47] <PhistucK> Which in turn is taken from http://docs.webplatform.org/w/index.php?title=dom/methods/addEventListener (for example)
# [12:47] <PhistucK> Got it - you can ignore the last few messages.
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# [14:51] <karlcow> http://twitter.com/ourmaninjapan/status/258185091300331522
# [14:51] <karlcow> "ECMAScript spec says the 6 types are Undefined, Null, Boolean, String, Number & Object."
# [14:51] <karlcow> I guess this is something for http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/javascript/data_types
# [14:51] <socialhapy> ★ Tweet from ourmaninjapan: Thanks @molily for a definitive answer. ECMAScript spec says the 6 types are Undefined, Null, Boolean, String, Number & Object. MSDN's wrong ★ http://bit.ly/V479tI
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# [14:53] <@Garbee> Ok, Who's bot is that?
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# [14:58] <Munter> The only other channel it's in is #fronteers. So that's where I would ask
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# [15:02] <@Garbee> Thanks for finding that out.
# [15:03] <@Garbee> Now to do a test real quick...
# [15:03] <@Garbee> http://twitter.com/ourmaninjapan/status/258185091300331522
# [15:03] <socialhapy> ★ Tweet from ourmaninjapan: Thanks @molily for a definitive answer. ECMAScript spec says the 6 types are Undefined, Null, Boolean, String, Number & Object. MSDN's wrong ★ http://bit.ly/V479tI
# [15:03] <@Garbee> Yea, that can be annoying.
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# [15:17] <@Sandkorn> http://twitter.com/yoyoha/status/255851126782586880
# [15:17] <socialhapy> ★ Tweet from yoyoha: It's only takes me 2.5 hours of wasting time on the internet to do five minutes of work. ★ http://bit.ly/V4avwP
# [15:17] <@Sandkorn> hm..
# [15:18] <@Garbee> Yea odd bot.
# [15:18] <@Sandkorn> lets try a day with just answering through tweets .. :>
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# [15:49] <@_WiZZarD> whehe
# [15:50] * @_WiZZarD is getting itchy fingers ;)
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# [15:54] <shepazu> I'm thinking of booting that bot...
# [15:56] <@Garbee> I would like to not have it. But I'd also rather just ask the owner to take it out compared to kicking/banning it outright.
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# [15:58] <mstalfoort> ..seems it can act on more than just twitter links, also bitly facebook github
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# [16:01] <@Garbee> It is just going to end up adding unproductive noise.
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# [16:04] <@_WiZZarD> <Garbee> I would like to not have it. But I'd also rather just ask the owner to take it out compared to kicking/banning it outright. < that
# [16:05] <@_WiZZarD> but that still doesnt stop my fingers from getting itchy
# [16:05] <@Garbee> So I think we are agreed to get it removed? I can ask in the other room it is in if the owner can remove it from our room.
# [16:05] <Munter> I'm already on it
# [16:05] <@_WiZZarD> please do so
# [16:05] <@Garbee> Ah, thanks.
# [16:06] <@_WiZZarD> I was hoping someone would notice it's annoiance factor
# [16:06] <@_WiZZarD> and got rid of it
# [16:06] <Munter> They are nice guys. I can guarantee they don't want to mess with you :)
# [16:06] <@Garbee> Yea. I would have used Google Translate to enquire in their room language though. ;)
# [16:06] <Munter> dutch
# [16:06] <@Garbee> I know.
# [16:07] <@_WiZZarD> I don't question the fact their nice
# [16:07] <@_WiZZarD> dutchies?
# [16:07] <@_WiZZarD> wich channel?
# [16:07] <@_WiZZarD> < dutch
# [16:07] <@_WiZZarD> ;)
# [16:07] <phwd> :S The only reason it is annoying is because yall posted three twitter links in succession :S
# [16:07] <Munter> They are the fronteers-nl organizers
# [16:07] <@Garbee> #fronteers
# [16:07] <@Garbee> phwd, No, we were testing.
# [16:07] <@Garbee> It is annoying since it adds noise for no reason.
# [16:08] <phwd> I don't see how one instance equates to noise
# [16:08] <arjaneising> the owner of that bot used to hang out in the fronteers channel, but does not so anymore
# [16:09] <@Garbee> phwd, If we share links over time it just adds extra junk to the room. Yea, once nothing, but over time it can add a lot.
# [16:09] <@Garbee> Also, we don't need a recap of what we follow the link to get.
# [16:09] <shepazu> I guess I'm wondering what the point of the bot is?
# [16:09] <arjaneising> it used to notify about github stuff as well
# [16:09] <@Garbee> I think it is just to echo the data on the end of the link into the room so people don't *need* to follow it.
# [16:09] <phwd> exactly
# [16:10] <Munter> Personally I like it. But I know how to use my /ingore function if there's anything I don't like :P
# [16:10] <shepazu> ok, let me correct myself… I'm not sure what the point of that bot *in this channel* is… :)
# [16:10] <@Garbee> I just see it as once the site code is hosted on GitHub (or cloned there) then we may end up sharing links to that and the noise is just going to be annoying.
# [16:11] <bnijenhuis> I like it as well...you don't need to follow the link to see what was said in the tweet...
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# [16:12] <shepazu> bnijenhuis: but why are people dropping tweets in this channel that have nothing to do with what we're trying to do here?
# [16:12] <bnijenhuis> that's up to that people...
# [16:12] <shepazu> it's only useful if it's… well, useful
# [16:12] <Munter> Well, if the owner is unknown then banning is the only real option if you don't want it here. I doubt it will cause much grief if it is even ever noticed
# [16:13] <bnijenhuis> it's much more annoying to follow a link to a tweet that has nothing to do with anything in here
# [16:13] <phwd> shepazu: then that's a fault of the user not the bot
# [16:13] <@Garbee> bnijenhuis, Actually, it is much more annoying to have it echoed in the room.
# [16:13] <@Garbee> Munter, We should just give it one shot. The owner could not be in that room.
# [16:13] <bnijenhuis> that differs per person...obviously
# [16:14] <@Garbee> Not*
# [16:14] <@Garbee> We should not give it just one shot*
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# [16:14] <@Garbee> bnijenhuis, Well, lets look at it as keeping the logs cleaner.
# [16:14] * shepazu adopts a wait-and-see attitude
# [16:14] <@_WiZZarD> well
# [16:14] <@_WiZZarD> at least i found the owner ;)
# [16:15] * @_WiZZarD pokes Peeter_
# [16:15] <@_WiZZarD> err
# [16:15] * @_WiZZarD pokes peol even
# [16:15] <@Garbee> They are a good resource and adding noise to possible be searched through isn't good.
# [16:15] <@_WiZZarD> srry Peeter_
# [16:15] <@_WiZZarD> ;)
# [16:15] <Peeter_> You better be.
# [16:15] <@_WiZZarD> I am
# [16:15] <bnijenhuis> in my opinion it's much more useful in the log of the tweet is already echoed...but only if it's related to the subject discussed...and that's really up to the users
# [16:15] <Peeter_> The IRC popup just disturbed me and I forgot the cure to hunger.
# [16:15] * shepazu thinks we are adding more noise talking about the bot than the bot did
# [16:15] <@_WiZZarD> you just happened to be on my [tab] sooner then expected :)
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# [16:16] <mstalfoort> shepazu, lol indeed
# [16:16] <Munter> The usual road of meta discussions :D
# [16:17] <@_WiZZarD> so now we start a discussion about the use of meta discussions right?
# [16:17] <phwd> >.< oh god no
# [16:17] * @_WiZZarD grabs some popcorn
# [16:17] * Munter invites everyone to #webplatform-meta, as channel he will not join himself
# [16:18] <@_WiZZarD> (:
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# [16:18] <@Garbee> OK, does anyone else think that we should try to fill in breadcrumbs that are empty? i.e. http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Content/coding_guidelines/css has a breadcrumb that is Coding Guildelines. It is empty so is completely useless.
# [16:18] <Munter> Organizing communities is hard :)
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# [16:18] <@Garbee> -meta, party of one.
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# [16:19] <@Garbee> Ideally I would like to see if it is possible on those pages to just generate a children tree automatically.
# [16:19] <@_WiZZarD> Munter: so true
# [16:19] <@Garbee> For pages like that it would be small and simple.
# [16:20] <@_WiZZarD> Garbee: at first there will probably be a couple of empty crumbs ..
# [16:20] <@_WiZZarD> that should (hopefully) be fixed over time when more content is added
# [16:21] <@Garbee> We can add just a simple summary explaining the guidelines. But I do think generating a child list automatically would be best so we don't need to remember to go fill that page in too.
# [16:21] <@Garbee> I guess eventually someone would find a missing link and either put it in or let us know.
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# [16:22] <@Garbee> We do need HTML and JS guidelines though. Example code for those two needs to be organized.
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# [16:23] <@Garbee> Anyone want to write the JS guidelines?
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# [16:24] <@Garbee> Does anyone see a reason for this question to be flagged? I'm not seeing it. http://talk.webplatform.org/forums/index.php/885/what-interesting-informations-tips-learn-from-webplatform
# [16:25] <peol> _WiZZarD, Garbee, sorry, I'll remove this channel from the list
# [16:25] <@_WiZZarD> np mate
# [16:25] <@_WiZZarD> thanks for the response
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# [16:27] <@Garbee> peol, What is the bot running on and have you seen it trigger when it wasn't supposed to?
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# [16:28] <peol> Garbee, node, https://github.com/peol/socialhapy -- trigger on what?
# [16:28] <peol> it has some support for github issues/commit urls, twitter links and stuff like that
# [16:28] <@Garbee> Like have you seen it send a message by accident somehow.
# [16:29] <@Garbee> Actually I guess it couldn't...
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# [16:29] <peol> Not that I'm aware of, please tell me if he did something weird :)
# [16:29] <@Garbee> Well, that is what I'm worried about. I have seen bots like this (especially RSS ones) get crazy.
# [16:30] <peol> nah, he's not doing anything automatically, except streaming twitter accts to specific channels that you set up, but I haven't added any to #webplatform
# [16:31] <@Garbee> In that case I'm more inclined to just say leave it until it becomes an issue. From what I'm seeing it would be hard for this one to misfire like I have seen from others.
# [16:32] <@Garbee> Actually, could you at least pull it into #webplatform-offtopic ? I think it could be useful there actually.
# [16:32] <peol> we've had it in various #jquery (mostly dev) channels for quite a while, only issue i could see is people abusing it by posting twitter links
# [16:34] <@Garbee> I'm on leave it until it becomes an issue then. I'm seeing nothing wrong with the setup. _WiZZarD What do you think on it?
# [16:34] * @_WiZZarD agrees on what most people think
# [16:34] <@_WiZZarD> I am a very flexible person
# [16:34] <@_WiZZarD> :)
# [16:34] <peol> I've added him to -offtopic for now, let me know if you feel like it could contribute to the channel later on
# [16:34] <@_WiZZarD> My biggest trigger was that people seemed annoyed with it
# [16:35] <@_WiZZarD> :)
# [16:35] <seutje> I like how you call it "him" :P
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# [16:35] <HammHetfield> he may call it "him" because his native language doesn't have "it"
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# [16:36] <@_WiZZarD> it does ;)
# [16:36] <HammHetfield> always sound weird to me to call pets "it", sounds like talking about a rock or a chair
# [16:36] <@Garbee> I can see where it can get annoying quick. I have blocked hearing some in rooms I don't Op for the exact reason. But those also have more active link posters at times.
# [16:36] <HammHetfield> and well… bots are people too !
# [16:37] <@Garbee> peol, Pull it back in if you feel like it and we will just keep an eye out. If people start posting links more then it may need to get pulled back out.
# [16:37] <@_WiZZarD> Garbee: about that flagged Q&A thread: it's not really helpfull for people looking for standards, documentation, etc. It's more of a happy thread that goes almost off-topic
# [16:37] <seutje> HammHetfield: well pets tend to have a gender :P
# [16:38] <@_WiZZarD> seutje: that depends ;)
# [16:38] <@_WiZZarD> sometimes they get "fixed"
# [16:38] <HammHetfield> talk about a fix
# [16:38] <HammHetfield> "shkweek"
# [16:38] <seutje> maybe that's the reason my stepsister keeps calling our male cat "she"
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# [17:15] <@NotTomato> Psst any developers here?
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# [17:16] <@Garbee> NotTomato, Define developer..
# [17:17] <@NotTomato> Someone who would know the names of all of our custom name spaces (exactly). ):
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# [17:17] <@Garbee> Ok, not me.
# [17:18] * dontcallmedom didn't understand the required knowledge, so assumes he doesn't have it
# [17:18] <@Garbee> I think there should only be WPD
# [17:19] <@Garbee> WPD is for meta-level stuff, beyond that it I don't think there should be any other namespaces except for the stuff built in, or possibly added by plugins which may be where the issue comes in.
# [17:20] <dontcallmedom> don't the namespaces show up in the dropdown in http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/Special:RecentChanges ?
# [17:20] <@NotTomato> I think they would show up if you push advance search.
# [17:20] <@NotTomato> I'll try that. ):
# [17:20] <dontcallmedom> I see at least "Stewards" that doesn't seem to be a mediawiki/semantic mediawiki namespace
# [17:20] <@NotTomato> Oh yeah they do show up on that drop down too.
# [17:21] <@NotTomato> Omg the stewards have a private namespace.
# [17:21] <@NotTomato> what do you think they talk about on there
# [17:21] <@mdel> stewardly things
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# [17:21] <dontcallmedom> I think they're conspiring to take over the Web!
# [17:22] <dontcallmedom> oh wait, I'm part of one of the stewards
# [17:22] <@NotTomato> oh. dom told us all the secrets now.
# [17:22] <@Garbee> Let's not worry about what the Stewards are doing in there.
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# [17:23] <@NotTomato> PS thanks dom, I can finish writing the dumb family file for pywikipediabot now.
# [17:24] <dontcallmedom> you're working on bot infrastructure! cool
# [17:24] <dontcallmedom> someone else this morning had asked about automatic clean up of the wiki (<PhistucK>)
# [17:25] <dontcallmedom> will you share the source of your bot?
# [17:25] <@NotTomato> I just noticed that I need the numbers of the custom namespaces too that they were put on.
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# [17:25] <@NotTomato> I can share the source of my bot, but this bot is also available for everyone, here: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Pywikipediabot
# [17:26] <dontcallmedom> well, that's more a framework than an actual bot? or am I confused?
# [17:27] <@NotTomato> It's a pretty well written bot, it usually gets updated everynight sometimes, it is kind of a framework though.
# [17:27] <@NotTomato> but it comes with a lot of already written python scripts that do basic clean up
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# [17:28] <dontcallmedom> well, I guess that sharing the configuration file somewhere would still be pretty useful :)
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# [17:29] <@NotTomato> the only bad part is i can't get the bot to log in because i need the numbers of the custom namespaces, I'm not really sure how to see them without someone looking at it in the localsettings.
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# [17:31] <@NotTomato> where's shepazu when you need him~
# [17:32] <shepazu> what's up?
# [17:32] <@NotTomato> What are the numbers that the custom namespaces are attached to? ):
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# [17:36] <@mdel> looks like they are IDs, no?
# [17:36] <@mdel> for the namespace
# [17:36] <@mdel> and custom ones start at 3000?
# [17:37] <@NotTomato> Oh, is there a way to see it?
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# [17:38] <@mdel> im just filtering the namespaces with that dropdown and looking at the URL
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# [17:40] <shepazu> NotTomato: sorry, why do you need to know this?
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# [17:41] <dontcallmedom> shepazu, for running pywikipediabot
# [17:41] <@NotTomato> I need them to set up pywikipediabot.
# [17:41] <shepazu> and what does this bot do?
# [17:41] <dontcallmedom> using the 300x trick, the source code has <option value="3000">WPD</option>
# [17:41] <dontcallmedom> <option value="3001">WPD talk</option>
# [17:41] <dontcallmedom> <option value="3010">Stewards</option>
# [17:41] <dontcallmedom> <option value="3011">Stewards talk</option>
# [17:41] <dontcallmedom> <option value="3020">Meta</option>
# [17:41] <dontcallmedom> <option value="3021">Meta talk</option>
# [17:41] <@mdel> yeah I was just going to suggest that
# [17:41] <@mdel> tis all there :)
# [17:42] <dontcallmedom> so, that would be 6 (or 3 if the talk ones are redundant)
# [17:42] <@NotTomato> The bot is just a clean up bot, but it does a lot of things like.. replacing text, fixing redirects, things like that.
# [17:42] <@NotTomato> shepazu: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Pywikipediabot
# [17:43] <@NotTomato> Thanks for the help dontcallmedom and mdel.
# [17:45] <shepazu> I'm wary of adding a bot to our system when I don't know more about it… that manual doesn't say much about what it does
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# [17:47] <@NotTomato> I see. You can download the bot and see every script or this page has a list: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Pywikipediabot/Scripts
# [17:47] <@NotTomato> If that helps.
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# [17:47] <shepazu> NotTomato: can you send an email to the list, so we can discuss it? I don't think this is something to be decided ad hoc in IRC
# [17:47] <@NotTomato> Okay.
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# [17:48] <@NotTomato> Is it the tiny T in chat?!
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# [18:21] <@Garbee> Should this get counted as spam? http://talk.webplatform.org/forums/index.php/2302/1devday-detroit-coming-what-best-promote-webplatform-there
# [18:22] <@fr0zenice> hello fellow webplatformers :)
# [18:22] <@Garbee> I get wanting to support WPD, but you should be able to find better ways of asking then through Q&A for conferences.
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# [18:24] <@NotTomato> If only we had that WPD swag.
# [18:24] <@Garbee> btw, Why does the "More" link on the hompage link to the Docs?
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# [18:24] <@NotTomato> Hi fr0zenice!
# [18:24] <@Garbee> Just there to fill up space?
# [18:24] <@fr0zenice> I guess so Garbee
# [18:24] <@NotTomato> Maybe something else will go there later Garbee.
# [18:24] <@NotTomato> o;
# [18:24] <@NotTomato> Like whatever is happening after alpha.
# [18:24] * @Garbee would love to buy a sticker for my Laptop of just the WPD logo.
# [18:25] <@Garbee> Dropping alpha seems a ways away.
# [18:25] <@Garbee> I will open a bug report, that is just annoying.
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# [18:33] <@Garbee> Wow, awesome search update on the site.
# [18:33] <@Garbee> Looks, buggy but nice update.
# [18:35] <@Garbee> btw, does anyone else notice the Desktop Compatability table on the following page printing w/o a table border? http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/guides/html_text
# [18:37] <@mdel> Garbee: http://screencloud.net/v/wj9H
# [18:38] <@Garbee> *print*
# [18:38] <@Garbee> As in check print preview.
# [18:38] <@Garbee> Please if you could.
# [18:38] <@Garbee> I'm trying to see if it is really just me.
# [18:39] <dontcallmedom> same for me with Firefox
# [18:39] <@Garbee> Ok. I checked the source an am seeing it as 2 diferent table stylings.
# [18:39] <@Garbee> I can't track down print styles though.
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# [18:40] <@Garbee> Well, I will add a comment to my bug report for printing already. Thanks for the confirmation.
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# [18:45] <@Garbee> Looks like it could be an issue with the forms too.
# [18:45] <@Garbee> The mobile table has default mediawiki styling it seems. I think it should use the better looking compat-table styling in this case.
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# [18:57] <jeffreyatw> Hi guys
# [18:57] <jeffreyatw> I've found duplicate content at http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/tutorials/The_CSS_layout_model_-_boxes_borders_margins_padding and http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/guides/the_css_layout_model
# [18:58] <jeffreyatw> I bet there's a lot of that at this point... should I file a bug?
# [19:00] <@Garbee> Nah, don't file a bug. I will add it to the Most Wanted Tasks.
# [19:00] <jeffreyatw> I will also add a "merge candidate" high level issue
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# [19:01] <@Garbee> Wait, this is the same stuff.
# [19:02] <@Garbee> I think we should just delete the tutorial one.
# [19:02] <@Garbee> I don't really think it is a tutorial anyways.
# [19:02] <jeffreyatw> Sure. That was my question, basically - I don't know which one took precedence
# [19:02] <@Garbee> Ah, yea it is informative.
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# [19:03] <@Garbee> Well, the Guide one is using the forms already (see compatability at the bottom.)
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# [19:03] <jeffreyatw> it also has better syntax highlighting
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# [19:03] <jeffreyatw> Should I replace the content of the tutorial with a redirect to the guide?
# [19:03] <@Garbee> Um, I'd look into just deleting it.
# [19:03] <@Garbee> No real need for a redirect.
# [19:04] <jeffreyatw> OK - there are two pages that link to it, so I'll just relink them to the guide
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# [19:05] <@Garbee> Good call. It might actually be other pages that are duplicates so I'd also check into that.
# [19:05] <@Garbee> hehe, the mess that has been made...
# [19:06] <shepazu> Garbee, jeffreyatw, please don't delete pages at this point… first mark them as merge candidates, then we'll discuss strategies for dealing with duplicates on the mailing list
# [19:06] <jeffreyatw> I can't see the option to delete the page. I might not have the privileges to do it
# [19:06] <jeffreyatw> OK, cool
# [19:06] <shepazu> Garbee: you seem to like to delete things :)
# [19:06] <@Garbee> shep, I removed *one* section that was out of scope.
# [19:07] * @Garbee blushes.
# [19:07] <shepazu> :P
# [19:07] <jeffreyatw> http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/tutorials/The_CSS_layout_model_-_boxes_borders_margins_padding - this has been set as a merge candidate
# [19:07] <@Garbee> I will be deleting a lot of first person in this HTML Text page.
# [19:07] <jeffreyatw> should I do the same with the guide page?
# [19:07] <shepazu> jeffreyatw: yeah, please
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# [19:09] <shepazu> Garbee: nothing wrong with deleting things, I just want to make sure everyone is on the same page first :)
# [19:09] <@Garbee> shep, Perhaps we should find a place to put down that so if others ask what to do for duplicate content they can know.
# [19:09] <shepazu> Garbee: good idea
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# [19:09] <shepazu> jeffreyatw: please tell me there's a way to indicate which pages are merge candidates of each other when you check the box?
# [19:10] <shepazu> Garbee: where do you think that notice should go?
# [19:10] <jeffreyatw> in editorial notes you can specify the url
# [19:10] <@Garbee> shep, Thinking...
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# [19:11] * shepazu notes to Garbee that "shep" doesn't trigger his alerts, so if he wants my attention, he should use my full nick
# [19:11] <@Garbee> shepazu, 5-Minute tasks in the Getting Started Guide? Just if you happen to see duplicate content please flag.
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# [19:11] <shepazu> Garbee: perfect
# [19:11] <@Garbee> shepazu, I know.
# [19:11] <shepazu> and maybe in another section about editorial guidelines?
# [19:11] <@Garbee> I'm saying that since you are around as just a marker but not to trigger an alert.
# [19:11] <@Garbee> Yea, do we have Editoral Guidelines now?
# [19:11] <shepazu> sure, just making sure
# [19:11] <@Garbee> That can be very useful.
# [19:12] <shepazu> Garbee: I don't think we do, but I think we should
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# [19:13] <@Garbee> Perhaps we should take the "Editing an existing page" content from the Getting Started Guide and merge it into a new Editorial Guidelines as well.
# [19:13] <@Garbee> be back in a bit. Cooking lunch.
# [19:13] <shepazu> Garbee: splendid idea
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# [19:30] <@Garbee> shepazu, I know, lunch is awesome.
# [19:30] <shepazu> lol
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# [19:31] <@Garbee> Should we keep links to outside resources like this note in the HTML text page pointing to Opera's site to see examples running live?
# [19:31] <@Garbee> I don't think we should since we can't gaurntee its uptime.
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# [19:32] <@Garbee> guarantee*
# [19:32] <@Garbee> Wow that is hard to spell.
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# [19:36] <jeffreyatw> Garbee: is there a place on webplatform.org for standalone HTML files?
# [19:36] <jeffreyatw> A jsfiddle-esque area, possibly?
# [19:36] <@Garbee> Not to my knowledge.
# [19:36] <@Garbee> Oh no.
# [19:36] <@Garbee> It has been discussed though.
# [19:37] <@Garbee> What would you like to do?
# [19:37] <jeffreyatw> It should probably exist if the plan is to decommission other external documentation sites
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# [19:37] <@Garbee> That isn't the plan.
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# [19:37] <jeffreyatw> But there seems to be a plan to not depend on external documentation sites for example pages/files
# [19:38] <@Garbee> That doesn't mean decomissioning them.
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# [19:38] <@Garbee> And we do depend upon other sites/resources.
# [19:38] <@Garbee> Like Stack Exchange to do tech support.
# [19:38] <@Garbee> ;)
# [19:38] <@Garbee> Sorry if you don't get the joke there. You had to be around last week.
# [19:40] <jeffreyatw> Linking to full blog posts or Q/A pages is definitely a good idea, I mean, you need sources and in-depth explanations... and my interest in the potential future decline of other vendor-specific documentation sites stems from my OCD tendency to hate duplicate content
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# [19:40] <@Garbee> The web is duplicate content.
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# [19:41] <jeffreyatw> but as for the examples and zip files linked from that floats page... that's stuff that could definitely live on webplatform.org in some non-wiki regard
# [19:41] <@Garbee> I think we will figure it all out in time though. Right now it is just a heavy focus on cleanup of the bot imports.
# [19:41] <jeffreyatw> ...well actually, maybe zip files can be uploaded to the wiki. I dunno
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# [19:41] <@Garbee> Uh, I sure hope we aren't taking uploads like that. At least not without inspection.
# [19:42] <@Garbee> I filed a report asking for inline demo code that is actually ran.
# [19:42] <@Garbee> That way we could do some inline stuff for CSS/HTML demo's.
# [19:42] <@Garbee> Perhaps even some JS demos could use it.
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# [19:43] <jeffreyatw> I think it would be most helpful to still be able to see those examples on a standalone page
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# [19:44] <@Garbee> Most of it doesn't need a standalone page though. You can get the point through a small viewport inline.
# [19:44] <jeffreyatw> an iframe?
# [19:44] <@Garbee> No.
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# [19:44] <@Garbee> Actual inline code being executed.
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# [19:44] <jeffreyatw> I know people are encouraged to use the web inspector to see how stuff works, but people still like to view source
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# [19:44] <@Garbee> Exactly, that is why you use inline code.
# [19:44] <shepazu> actually, there have been some discussions about decommissioning other sites if WebPlatform.org succeeds...
# [19:45] <@Garbee> Well, the *point* right now isn't to decommission them.
# [19:45] <@Garbee> It could just be a side-effect.
# [19:45] <shepazu> as far as uploading active files, storing them, and allowing them to be edited, forked, and exectuted, we are working on that
# [19:45] <@Garbee> I'm sure the companies would *love* to do it and reduce their workload.
# [19:46] <shepazu> we are open to ideas about how to execute on the idea of executable code sample
# [19:46] <shepazu> s
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# [19:46] <@Garbee> Do I sense a GitHub GIST and jsFiddle combo coming along?
# [19:46] <shepazu> Garbee: I'd love something like that, if we can do it
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# [19:47] <@Garbee> We *can*. The problem is figuring out exactly how..
# [19:47] <@Garbee> If I can come up with a thought on how I will shoot the mailing list with it.
# [19:48] <shepazu> leaverou has Dabblet.com, which is nice, but doesn't do JS yet
# [19:48] <shepazu> and I'd like not to rely on github, if possible… it's great, but we don't have any control over it
# [19:49] <shepazu> and I'd rather not rely on 3rd-party services
# [19:49] <jeffreyatw> I think he was just using that as an example
# [19:49] <@Garbee> Yea, I'm thinking what could be a new solution. You would ideally want something like GIST which stores the code and allows forking and all, then jsfiddle sitting on top for editing/executing.
# [19:49] <jeffreyatw> I guess JSFiddle isn't open-source... that's too bad
# [19:49] <shepazu> yeah
# [19:50] <@Garbee> Yea, it would need to be a new build kind of thing. Or find a project (like dabblet) with partial functions and patch it with the GIST style stuff.
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# [19:50] <shepazu> and you'd want to be able to reference a file (or parts of it) from inside the wiki, so we could store our examples in gists
# [19:50] <@Garbee> I thinkg dabblet looks perfect in function, but the UI could use a little updating.
# [19:50] <shepazu> well, it would need JS, too
# [19:51] <shepazu> but the functionality that is there is cool
# [19:51] <shepazu> http://dabblet.com/gist/1441328 mouse over the values
# [19:51] <jeffreyatw> that's so awesome
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# [19:54] <David_Bradbury> I think adding something like that to webplatform would be great. Doesn't Lea run Dabblet?
# [19:55] <David_Bradbury> *scrolls up* Yup
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# [19:56] <shepazu> David_Bradbury: and it's open-source, too… the only thing holding us back is how to integrate it into the site in a meaningful way
# [19:56] <shepazu> ideally, we could even run code in an article itself, in an iframe
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# [19:57] <shepazu> right now, dabblet relies on github, so we'll need an alternative to that
# [19:58] <jeffreyatw> I like iframes too - I think separation is important. Trying to reset all of the CSS and keeping the examples' styles scoped (cross-platform) seems like too much work without loading a separate file
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# [20:03] <David_Bradbury> I'm sure we could just take any ".source-cee pre" elements, then parse them and apply the proper changes
# [20:03] <David_Bradbury> ".source-css pre" *
# [20:04] <jeffreyatw> I'm talking about visible examples, not source code
# [20:05] <David_Bradbury> I was talking to shepazu regarding the dabblet mouse over bits
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# [20:06] <David_Bradbury> In fact, I think some sort of standalone library that does that would be pretty hot
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# [20:08] <jeffreyatw> I would use it. Fold it into Cloud9 or Adobe Brackets or whatever.
# [20:09] <David_Bradbury> If Lea is on later, maybe we can talk to her and see if she is interested in making that happen
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# [20:26] <@Garbee> Wow, dabblet is even more awesome.
# [20:26] <@Garbee> If we got it to work off of a local git install would that be acceptable to use?
# [20:28] <@fr0zenice> Hmm, could also use the wiki, maybe.
# [20:28] <@Garbee> Use the wiki for what?
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# [20:28] <@fr0zenice> the revisions of the examples
# [20:29] <@Garbee> Well, then your code gets escaped unless we find a way to tell it not to.
# [20:30] <@Garbee> I think building dabble on top of MW would be a bigger challenge then using a local git. Or even plugging into a better git system than Github. Should be possible somehow though.
# [20:30] <@fr0zenice> Yeah I thought about using a special namespace to store the snippets and just pull the source from there.
# [20:30] <@fr0zenice> Yup, just in case.
# [20:30] <@Garbee> If you can get a demo working... It is worth taking a look at.
# [20:31] <@Garbee> Looks like it is mostly JS though.
# [20:31] <@Garbee> Which is not my strong suite.
# [20:31] <@fr0zenice> <3 JS
# [20:31] <@fr0zenice> my fav. along with C# :)
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# [21:07] <@Garbee> shepazu, Under the Manual Of Style - Grammar and Spelling Conventions. Should we have highlights from the Yahoo Style Guide that are common mistakes we see around the site and/or additions?
# [21:08] <@Garbee> I'm seeing a lot of contractions in the article I'm reviewing and it could be an issue elsewhere. I think it is best for translation/i18n and legibility if we try not to use them so much in the docs.
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# [21:16] <shepazu> Garbee: that seems sensible to me
# [21:18] <@Garbee> Ok, I will add a quick bullet point. Perhaps others who are reading a lot will find common issues and mention them.
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# [21:20] <shepazu> sweet
# [21:21] <jgraham> The flowchart on http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Getting_Started looks like it should have hyperlinks. Can't it be a SVG?
# [21:21] <shepazu> jgraham: once we get SVG as a display format in mediawiki, it will be
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# [21:23] <jgraham> mediawiki doesn't support SVG?
# [21:23] <jgraham> Sucks
# [21:23] <shepazu> jgraham: not out of the box
# [21:23] <shepazu> jgraham: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/SVG
# [21:23] <@Garbee> I saw that in the bug tracker too.
# [21:24] <gluxon> Hm... can we add code to a QA answer?
# [21:25] <@Garbee> gluxon, You can but it won't be formatted/colored.
# [21:25] <@Garbee> It is plain text only now.
# [21:25] <jgraham> shepazu: That seems to be about rendering SVG to bitmaps
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# [21:25] <@Garbee> jgraham, That is what it does by default. But it explains how you can setup SVG rendering in some of the links.
# [21:25] <shepazu> I think SVG will take 2 steps: stripping out script from uploaded SVG, and finding a way to to allow it to be inserted in an iframe or img
# [21:26] <shepazu> Garbee: I don't think it really allows SVG inline
# [21:26] <jgraham> Insert it in an img -> don't need to worry about script (unless people open it outside the <img>)
# [21:27] <jgraham> You could serve it with some MIME type that would cause it to not be rendered in that case (perhaps)
# [21:27] <shepazu> jgraham: I forget… do browsers allow SVG links to work in SVG as img?
# [21:28] <@Garbee> Ah! That is retarded MediaWiki "We support rendering, but they get converted on the fly."... Is that really support? No.
# [21:28] <jgraham> shepazu: I'm not sure
# [21:28] * shepazu tests
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# [21:29] * jgraham still doesn't see anything on that page that doesn't involve rendering the SVG to a bitmap
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# [21:31] <phrearch_> hi
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# [21:32] <phrearch_> i wonder if there are some thoughts about SEO and websocket applications.
# [21:32] <phrearch_> whats the best way to index a page that solely uses websockets?
# [21:32] <Damianz> Considering no one really supports websockets is it that important :P
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# [21:33] <phrearch_> Damianz: that discusson is old. New browsers support it
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# [21:37] <phrearch_> at least, non-ie browsers. afaik opera, chrome, safari and firefox support it
# [21:38] <@Garbee> phrearch_, I think you might be better off asking over at Stack Overflow. They probably have a lot of people who know about that kind of stuff.
# [21:38] <phrearch_> Garbee: ok thanks for the tip
# [21:39] <@Garbee> *Maybe* #web too.
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# [21:52] <shepazu> jgraham: sadly, links in SVG in an <img> don't work
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# [21:53] <@Garbee> I wonder if canvas could do it... With a PNG fallback.
# [21:54] <shepazu> ugh
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# [21:55] <@Garbee> pita to program, but it could work.
# [21:55] <shepazu> I'd like to solve the SVG problem
# [21:55] <shepazu> it shouldn't be hard
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# [21:56] <jeffreyatw> Is there a way to add arbitrary HTML attributes to mediawiki links?
# [21:56] <jeffreyatw> e.g. [[Image:layout_fig2.jpg|Two elements with no negative margins applied|style="padding-left:20px"]]
# [21:57] <@Garbee> I think you can float it, but I don't think you can add style. Let me check the syntax docs.
# [21:58] <@Garbee> Yea, no style. Only float. http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Images
# [21:58] <@Garbee> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Images#Horizontal_alignment
# [21:58] <harryrf> Shouldn't Fundamentals on .../wiki/tutorials be listed as HTML, CSS, Web Programming...., JavaScript, CVS?
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# [22:00] <@Garbee> harryrf, Makes sense.
# [22:00] <plamoni> Does anyone know if you have to have special permission to post to the public mailing list?
# [22:00] <plamoni> (public-webplatform)
# [22:00] <@Garbee> plamoni, No. But the first email you will be asked to let them archive things.
# [22:01] <@Garbee> After that is done then the email will be pushed through.
# [22:01] <plamoni> I sent one this morning, and i gave permission to archive, but it still hasn't posted to the list
# [22:01] <plamoni> it's been abour 4-5 hours
# [22:01] <@Garbee> shepazu, Can you look into that one too please?
# [22:01] <@Garbee> Sorry, it has been having issues.
# [22:01] <harryrf> Also, the HTML code would be <ol></ol> and not <ul></ul> as it is now?
# [22:01] <plamoni> i tried giving permission to archive again and it said that it already has permission :-)
# [22:01] <plamoni> (just to be sure)
# [22:01] <@Garbee> harryrf, Having it as an ol isn't necessary.
# [22:02] <@Garbee> The order doesn't matter, it is just helpful to have in a logical order for beginners.
# [22:02] <harryrf> ah okay. still a bit new to this also.
# [22:02] <@Garbee> plamoni, Yea. Someone with more access then I have needs to look at it and approve your message manually. Then it all should work without issue.
# [22:03] <plamoni> ok
# [22:03] <jgraham> shepazu: Oh
# [22:03] <jgraham> Makes things harder :)
# [22:03] <plamoni> will that happen for all my posts?
# [22:03] <plamoni> or just the first one?
# [22:03] <@Garbee> Just the first.
# [22:03] <@Garbee> At least for me.
# [22:03] <plamoni> :-D
# [22:04] <@Garbee> You would think the W3 lists wouldn't have this kind of issue by this time. Maybe there is just a bad config in the one for WPD's public list.
# [22:05] <shepazu> Garbee: this list does seem particularly bad… not sure why that is… I'll ask our systems team about it
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# [22:05] <shepazu> plamoni: fixed
# [22:05] <plamoni> coolness, thanks shepazu
# [22:05] <plamoni> and Garbee
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# [22:06] <plamoni> I won't have to resend, right? it should pop through automatically?
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# [22:07] <plamoni> ah, just saw it pop up in the archives
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# [22:08] * @Garbee giggles.
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# [22:08] <@Garbee> Reading the name of the company someone works for.
# [22:08] <@Garbee> (In the ML)
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# [22:09] <@fr0zenice> thought it's funny, too ;)
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# [22:19] <harryrf> Reordered the list, I left "web programming essentials" at the top, as it's a good overview of what will be later read.
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# [23:00] <ericduran> I have one small complain with the website. My username technically is ericduran but it seems to be capitalizing the 1st letter
# [23:00] <@Garbee> ericduran, Yea, WikiMedia does it automatically.
# [23:01] <@Garbee> It is required for the way they do URLs.
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# [23:01] <@Garbee> http://talk.webplatform.org/forums/index.php/53/please-dont-capitalize-the-first-letter-of-the-username
# [23:01] <ericduran> Garbee: Ahh ok then I'll just deal with it ;-)
# [23:01] <@Garbee> ericduran, You have no choice. ;)
# [23:01] <@chris_cook> just an idea regarding that... could we not over-ride it with CSS?
# [23:02] <ericduran> Garbee: Is ok, I like it this way, it makes me feel like I made the choice to deal with it
# [23:02] <@Garbee> Uh.. No. It is stored in the DB and then some names do have a capital first letter.
# [23:02] <@chris_cook> good point
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# [23:29] <@fr0zenice> currently testing a Q2A markdown editor @ http://webplatform.frozenice.de/q2a/ if anyone wants to play with it
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# [23:31] <ericduran> @fr0zenice: nice!
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# [23:33] <@Garbee> Do answers need headings?
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# [23:33] <@fr0zenice> maybe the 2nd level ones
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# [23:34] <@Garbee> I like it though.
# [23:35] <@fr0zenice> some bugs to get rid of, but might be usable
# [23:35] <@Garbee> What bugs?
# [23:36] <@fr0zenice> see the red box in the upper right
# [23:36] <@fr0zenice> some aren't exactly bugs, though :p
# [23:37] <@fr0zenice> some of those render correctly in preview, but when posted
# [23:37] <@fr0zenice> +not
# [23:40] <@fr0zenice> shepazu might want to take a look at the editor.
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# [23:41] <@fr0zenice> m/b I'll throw a user sort plugin together tomorrow
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# [23:48] <David_Bradbury> I don't care if the site forces capitalization - That said, whoever designed the pages to act like that clearly doesn't understand proper application and database design.
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# [23:49] <shepazu> fr0zenice: looks great!
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# [23:49] <lampe2> hello my friends
# [23:50] <David_Bradbury> Howdy
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# Session Close: Wed Oct 17 00:00:00 2012

The end :)