/irc-logs / freenode / #webplatform / 2012-10-18 / end

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# Session Start: Thu Oct 18 00:00:00 2012
# Session Ident: #webplatform
# [00:00] <shepazu> Damianz: you're really not helping your case :)
# [00:00] <utkarshc> Hi
# [00:00] <shepazu> hi, utkarshc
# [00:00] <Damianz> I didn't know I had a case tbf.
# [00:00] <utkarshc> Hi Shepazu, I was wondering if any one knows, if jquery.tools validator works with IE9?
# [00:01] <utkarshc> For the life of it, It works with everything else, but IE8, IE9.. I believe IE9 has HTML5 compatibility
# [00:02] * @Garbee gets some popcorn.
# [00:02] <@Garbee> utkarshc, Have you tried asking in #jquery?
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# [00:02] <shepazu> utkarshc: right now, we're focused on building the site, so this channel isn't (yet) a help channel :)
# [00:02] <utkarshc> no, I'll try doing that.. Thanks
# [00:02] <shepazu> thanks Garbee
# [00:02] <utkarshc> sorry about that :)
# [00:02] <shepazu> no problem!
# [00:03] <@Garbee> utkarshc, We are glad to help get you where you can get help. It is just we are kinda stretched just getting the docs in order atm.
# [00:03] <shepazu> what Garbee said
# [00:03] <shepazu> :)
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# [00:04] <utkarshc> got it! Anything I could help with?
# [00:04] <shepazu> utkarshc: well, since you asked...
# [00:04] <shepazu> !help
# [00:04] <wpdbot> shepazu: Here's a list of all the commands I support: apple, beginner, blog, bugfiling, bugs, contribute, docs, faq, forum, goto, help, ontopic, pr, tutorials, and wpd. You can message me privately to see what each one does.
# [00:04] <shepazu> !contribute
# [00:04] <wpdbot> shepazu: A guide to get started contributing can be found here: http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Getting_Started.
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# [00:04] <shepazu> that's the one :)
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# [00:05] <utkarshc> I see, thanks.. I'll read that and surely see what I can contribute.. would love to be a part of this
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# [00:08] <shepazu> thanks, utkarshc
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# [00:08] <utkarshc> np!
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# [00:09] <shepazu> Garbee, mdel, eternicode, can I get your opinion?
# [00:09] <shepazu> we are *mostly* CC-BY
# [00:09] <shepazu> some content from MDN is CC-BY-SA
# [00:09] <shepazu> but we are working to transition from that
# [00:10] <shepazu> (over time)
# [00:10] <shepazu> we want to put the CC-BY icon in the footer, to make our license clear
# [00:10] <shepazu> (and so people can know that they can reuse our content)
# [00:11] * Quits: scottrowe (scottrowe@nat/google/x-nfhheulaxmxhverj) (Quit: scottrowe)
# [00:11] <shepazu> BUT!
# [00:11] <shepazu> we don't want to give the wrong impression
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# [00:12] <@Garbee> I would say, put it in the footer and then on pages with CC-BY-SA content have a notice that that content is under a different license that is very clear. Perhaps even remove the footer licnese on those page as well to be even clearer.
# [00:12] <shepazu> so, what do you think about having the CC-BY icon down there, and maybe add something to the template to also add the CC-BY-SA icon when appropriate?
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# [00:13] <shepazu> Garbee: you read my mind
# [00:13] <@Garbee> Yup.
# [00:13] <@Garbee> That is exactly what I wanted since launch since I couldn't even find the license.
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# [00:13] <@Garbee> I eventually did though.
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# [00:16] <@Garbee> shepazu, I don't think I read your mind. I think we both just have common sense.
# [00:16] <shepazu> Garbee: speak for yourself
# [00:16] <shepazu> :P
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# [00:17] <shepazu> hey, is mstalfoort an admin?
# [00:17] * shepazu checks
# [00:17] <@Garbee> Let me check...
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# [00:18] <shepazu> Garbee: can you please remind me to ask mstalfoort if they want to be an admin?
# [00:18] <@Garbee> Does't look like it.
# [00:18] <@Garbee> doesn't*
# [00:18] <@Garbee> Yea, I will try.
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# [00:19] <clarkpan> good morning
# [00:19] <shepazu> hey, clarkpan
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# [00:20] <shepazu> clarkpan: where are you located?
# [00:20] <clarkpan> sydney
# [00:20] <shepazu> aha!
# [00:20] <clarkpan> the best city in the world!
# [00:20] <shepazu> … next to Melbourne...
# [00:21] <@Garbee> Yea, I hear Sydney isn't too great from the Aussies I know.
# [00:21] <shepazu> jk… you have awesome giant bats!
# [00:21] <clarkpan> melbourne has its charms
# [00:21] <shepazu> I like Sydney, been there many times
# [00:21] <clarkpan> is that game exhibition still on at the ACMI?
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# [00:22] <@Garbee> Does anyone know of a way to filter Q&A posts by a specific user?
# [00:23] <@Garbee> I'd love to see all of a certain persons posts. (Don't ask why.)
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# [00:23] <shepazu> seems like a reasonable thing to want to do
# [00:23] <@Garbee> Ah, I can actually just search spcifying the Q&A site. It is its own subdomain.
# [00:24] <shepazu> yes
# [00:24] <@Garbee> Win!
# [00:24] <shepazu> (at some point, we want to unify search, to some degree… but not now)
# [00:24] <paul_irish> have other people complained about the low color contrast between text and links?
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# [00:25] <paul_irish> it bugs me pretty regularly. i can file a ticket..
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# [00:25] <shepazu> paul_irish: yes, I've seen that bug
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# [00:25] <paul_irish> k good
# [00:25] <shepazu> paul_irish: suggestions?
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# [00:26] <paul_irish> i find an underline in body links totally worthwhile http://paulirish.com/i/c0d190.png
# [00:26] <paul_irish> kill it on hover
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# [00:27] <paul_irish> looks attractive and makes me want to explore the content more
# [00:27] <@Garbee> Yea, we need underlines.
# [00:27] <paul_irish> compare to http://paulirish.com/i/d0d630.png
# [00:27] <shepazu> works for me… any other opinions?
# [00:27] <@Garbee> Also some have complained about the text color itself. I filed a bug on that one.
# [00:27] <paul_irish> i think the underline solves the contrast and we wouldnt need to change color
# [00:28] <shepazu> paul_irish: I think the contrast complaint is with all text, not just links or body text
# [00:28] <@Garbee> Some are saying the color itself overall is hard to read. I changed it to black and it was superbly better for me.
# [00:28] <@Garbee> I myself am going to add my own styles on top of the default somehow to automatically have changes like that.
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# [00:29] <@Garbee> That way whether it is updated for everyone or not I can read easily.
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# [00:38] <paul_irish> .mw-content-text a { }
# [00:38] <paul_irish> inside the @media screen
# [00:38] <paul_irish> probably. and kill it in a :hover
# [00:38] <paul_irish> lets do it, shepazu!
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# [00:39] <paul_irish> fun view http://docs.webplatform.org/w/index.php?namespace=0&title=Special%3ARecentChanges
# [00:39] <@Garbee> Paul, speaking of waldir too they are making edits in the Wiki here and there. But that is all I see of him/her.
# [00:39] <paul_irish> good to know!
# [00:39] <paul_irish> k
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# [00:39] <@Garbee> I still don't know why they have Beuacrate rights.
# [00:40] <shepazu> Garbee, paul_irish: I darkened the text, and removed the text-decoration:none
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# [00:40] <shepazu> it will take a while to be renewed in the cache
# [00:40] <@Garbee> Thank you!
# [00:40] <shepazu> thank you
# [00:41] <@Garbee> Also, I visited the Q&A on my phone this morning and got a whole different theme. Is that supposed to happen?
# [00:41] <paul_irish> shepazu: for what selector
# [00:41] <@Garbee> You're going to probably not like this, but it is on Windows Phone 7.
# [00:42] <paul_irish> Garbee: i dont like it
# [00:42] <@Garbee> Paul, I know you don't. But I do like it.
# [00:42] <@Garbee> It hasn't crashed on my but once. My Android phone crashed all the time.
# [00:42] <shepazu> paul_irish: for a
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# [00:43] <shepazu> Garbee: I don't think that's by design, but I'm not sure
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# [00:43] <paul_irish> eesh. that'll probably too broad. topnav/ breadcrumbs, menus.
# [00:43] <@Garbee> I will file a bug report for it then.
# [00:43] <shepazu> thanks Garbee
# [00:43] <paul_irish> i would scope the underline underneath .mw-content-text
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# [00:44] <shepazu> paul_irish, Garbee, I changed Waldir's user rights… in general, promotion is first to admin and comments admin
# [00:44] <paul_irish> k
# [00:44] <paul_irish> sgtm
# [00:44] * @Garbee does not do promotions unless told to. But good to note.
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# [00:45] <paul_irish> underline is live
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# [00:46] <paul_irish> its probably a touch too broad (homepage topanv) but its not terrible.
# [00:46] <paul_irish> can live with it
# [00:46] <paul_irish> body text looks way better
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# [00:46] <@Garbee> Could there be a selector overruling the broadness for the topnav to fix it?
# [00:46] <@Garbee> Just add one after wherever the current selector is and target the nav, then apply the stylings to make it look good again.
# [00:47] <shepazu> fix what?
# [00:47] <@Garbee> Or couldn't we just target #main_content?
# [00:47] <@Garbee> sorry - not _
# [00:47] <@Garbee> Paul was saying .mw-content-text would be a bit too broad iirc.
# [00:47] <shepazu> oic
# [00:48] <@Garbee> Or even target #bodyContent to be even more precise.
# [00:49] <@Garbee> oh, I see mw-content-text is below even that.
# [00:49] <shepazu> yeah, I can do that
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# [00:50] <@Garbee> Oh, I get the conversation now. Yea currently it is too broad and target .mw-content-text fixes it.
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# [00:51] <timothy> Hi
# [00:52] <shepazu> hi, timothy
# [00:52] <@Garbee> Meet shepazu the local bot
# [00:52] <@Garbee> ;)
# [00:52] <timothy> How are you all ?
# [00:53] <@Garbee> I'm good overall. How about yourself.
# [00:53] <@Garbee> Which reminds me. paul_irish how is your throat?
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# [00:53] <timothy> I'm fine Garbee, TY
# [00:53] <@Garbee> I hope it is finally getting better.
# [00:54] <@Garbee> Is there anything we can help you with timothy?
# [00:55] <timothy> Garbee, no TY i'm just visitor.
# [00:55] <@Garbee> That's fine. Feel free to lurk
# [00:55] <@Garbee> There should be a period up there.
# [00:55] <timothy> I Discover webplatform.
# [00:55] <paul_irish> Garbee: improving. not 100%
# [00:56] <timothy> soory : I have just discovered
# [00:56] <@Garbee> paul, At least it is getting better finally.
# [00:56] <@Garbee> At least you found us.
# [00:56] <shepazu> paul_irish, Garbee, fixed, wait for cache
# [00:56] <paul_irish> sweetness thx doug
# [00:56] <@Garbee> Cool thanks.
# [00:57] <timothy> good bye. Good night
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# [00:57] <shepazu> sorry such simple things take a while to fix… there's just a lot to do, and I still have my day job :)
# [00:57] <@Garbee> Yea. Well I would really like to know who thought of that light grey on this background.
# [00:57] <@Garbee> A little grey sure, but that light was just difficult.
# [00:57] <shepazu> Garbee: we could lighten it a bit
# [00:57] <@Garbee> light = the problem.
# [00:58] <@Garbee> It would need to be darkend a bit.
# [00:58] <shepazu> I mean the background
# [00:58] <@Garbee> I think the background is fine. We just need to toy with the text color a bit.
# [00:58] <paul_irish> shepazu: i think cache updated but not sure your fix fixed.. :)
# [00:58] <@Garbee> Let me screw around and see if I can find a decent darker grey.
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# [00:59] <paul_irish> shepazu: is this something i can edit so you i don't need to hassle you for such small things? :)
# [00:59] <shepazu> Garbee: I did darken it
# [00:59] <@Garbee> I just realized something. Programmers excuse for not doing work = code is compiling. Web Developers = Cache needs to update.
# [00:59] <shepazu> paul_irish: we plan to open up the CSS for pull requests… but...
# [01:00] <shepazu> not quite yet
# [01:00] <paul_irish> ok
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# [01:00] <shepazu> brb
# [01:00] <paul_irish> i would love to help with that
# [01:00] <paul_irish> shepazu: but in the meantime the underline is gone..
# [01:01] <paul_irish> :(
# [01:02] <@Garbee> I think #3C3C3C is decent for the text. Perhaps even #4E4E4E.
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# [01:02] * @Garbee thanks whomever put the color picker into the Chrome Dev Tools.
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# [01:05] <paul_irish> brian grinstead
# [01:05] <paul_irish> web developer
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# [01:05] <@Garbee> ofc Paul would know who.
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# [01:09] <shepazu> paul_irish:
# [01:09] <shepazu> .mw-content-text a {
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# [01:09] <shepazu> text-decoration: underline;
# [01:09] <shepazu> }
# [01:09] <shepazu> a:hover, .mw-content-text a:hover{
# [01:09] <shepazu> color: #2dafbc;
# [01:09] <shepazu> text-decoration: none;
# [01:09] <shepazu> }
# [01:09] <shepazu> suggestions?
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# [01:09] <@Garbee> Pastebin please for code over 3 lines. ;)
# [01:10] <shepazu> Garbee: you're right
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# [01:10] <paul_irish> lol
# [01:10] <paul_irish> looking
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# [01:12] <paul_irish> i blew it
# [01:12] <paul_irish> #mw-content-text
# [01:12] <paul_irish> apologies
# [01:13] <shepazu> doh.
# [01:13] <@eternicode> did I hear something about color/contrast? This passed my twitter stream a while ago: http://leaverou.github.com/contrast-ratio/
# [01:13] <shepazu> my fault
# [01:13] <@Garbee> . vs # what a big difference.
# [01:13] <paul_irish> :)
# [01:13] <@Garbee> I noticed it, but thought one of you would pick up on it.
# [01:13] <paul_irish> hah really
# [01:13] <@Garbee> Yea.
# [01:13] <@Garbee> I was playing MW3 at the time, so too busy to actually tell you.
# [01:14] <paul_irish> GEEZ THANKS Garbee :p
# [01:14] <@Garbee> *facepalm*
# [01:14] <@Garbee> I'm sorry. Next time I will point it out.
# [01:14] <paul_irish> haha
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# [01:14] <paul_irish> k
# [01:14] <clarkpan> paul_irish: is there a way to prettify the css in the sources tab of the dev tools?
# [01:14] <paul_irish> there is not. it's planned.
# [01:14] <@Garbee> I honestly thought one of you would have caught it.
# [01:14] <paul_irish> for now i use the "prettify" package in sublime text.
# [01:15] <clarkpan> yep thanks
# [01:15] * @Garbee install prettify.
# [01:15] <paul_irish> :)
# [01:16] <@Garbee> btw, themeing Chome Dev Tools = epic.
# [01:16] <@Garbee> https://plus.google.com/102860501900098846931/posts/dyjjVmcytDp --Nice starter themes to tweak and build from.
# [01:17] <clarkpan> wow nice
# [01:18] <clarkpan> Aww no twilight theme
# [01:18] <@Garbee> Make it and let people see the codez. ;)
# [01:19] <@Garbee> I'm using the top one now with even the UI itself being changed (or trying, mine doesn't seem to target properly.)
# [01:19] <@Garbee> Going to tweak that to whatever syntax highlighting I use in ST2 at the time. Right now it is Tomorrow-Night from the Pheonix theme.
# [01:22] <clarkpan> Yea when i get the time i'll make it look like what i use in ST2 (which is twilight)
# [01:22] <clarkpan> although solarized dark is nice as well
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# [01:22] <@Garbee> I liked solarized dark for a time (still do) but these black background themes tend to have me.
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# [01:25] <@Garbee> Well, I'm jumping back into Flexbox for a while before doing some more tweaking of this HTML/text page.
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# [01:42] <web> hi
# [01:45] <Infininight> clarkpan: send me a message if you get that working, would like to be able to link people to it
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# [01:48] <clarkpan> hmm has anyone noticed that since a couple of months ago
# [01:48] <clarkpan> if you put vertical align middle for an inline block element
# [01:48] <clarkpan> webkit doesn't actually put it dead center, but slightly higher
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# [01:57] <df___> Hello!
# [01:57] <df___> any here?
# [01:58] <df___> PLZ?
# [01:58] <clarkpan> ah found a solution!
# [01:58] <clarkpan> -webkit-baseline-middle
# [01:59] <df___> i have question
# [01:59] <df___> help please
# [02:00] <df___> Any here?
# [02:00] <@Ryan_Lane> just ask your question
# [02:00] <df___> #javascript
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# [02:00] <df___> u not know maybe...
# [02:01] <df___> u professional?
# [02:01] <@Ryan_Lane> you haven't asked any question
# [02:01] <@Ryan_Lane> no one can answer you if you don't ask
# [02:03] <df___> What u think about Dart http://www.dartlang.org/
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# [02:05] <df___> ?
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# [02:08] <@Garbee> Dart needs more support that what it has now.
# [02:08] <@Garbee> Right now it is just interpreted to JS.
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# [02:09] <df___> interpreted?
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# [02:09] <df___> http://www.dartlang.org/dartium/
# [02:09] <@Garbee> Yea, in its current state DART is just put into JS for even Chrome to run iirc. I don't think FF/IE support it at all.
# [02:10] <@Garbee> Yea, that is an *experimental* browser.
# [02:10] <@Garbee> Not a mainstream one.
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# [02:10] <df___> Dart is slower of JS?
# [02:10] <@Garbee> I would think it is yes.
# [02:10] <@Garbee> Either way, that is pretty offtopic at the moment.
# [02:11] <df___> Then what is the meaning of it?
# [02:11] <@Garbee> Yea, the page you linked to says that.
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# [02:11] <@Garbee> " so you don't have to compile your code to JavaScript until you're ready to test on other browsers"
# [02:12] <@Garbee> DARTS meaning is just an idea for the moment. This browser will show how much faster and easier to write for it is than JS it seems.
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# [02:13] <@Garbee> Either way, it is kindof offtopic unless you want to discuss documentation planning for it.
# [02:15] <df___> ok thanks
# [02:15] <df___> bye bye
# [02:16] <@Garbee> Perhaps you would want to drop into #web and see if anyone there wants to discuss it.
# [02:16] <@Garbee> But I doubt they would have too much to say tbh.
# [02:16] <@Garbee> Ah #dart
# [02:17] <@Garbee> There is the room for ya.
# [02:17] <df___> ok thx
# [02:17] <@Garbee> You're Welcome.
# [02:18] <df___> But I think it makes no sense. He will die and like many other languages. Because it is not claimed.
# [02:19] <@Garbee> What do you want me to say? Really, not even a bit of sarcasm.
# [02:20] <@Garbee> I don't use it and I don't care. the #dart people do.
# [02:20] <web> what is the best server side language
# [02:20] <df___> What are its advantages over the JS?
# [02:21] <@Garbee> web, Not the place and the answer is whichever you prefer.
# [02:21] <@Garbee> df___, That is best asked over in #dart.
# [02:21] <df___> web, PHP
# [02:21] <@Garbee> df___, Opionated.
# [02:21] <@Garbee> There is no place to ask what is the best server-side language. It is impossible to answer.
# [02:22] <@Garbee> Each as their own befits and weaknesses.
# [02:22] <@Garbee> You need to find one you like for whatever reason, and go with it.
# [02:22] <@Garbee> But this is not the room for server-side language talk.
# [02:23] <df___> Web use PHP last version just
# [02:23] <@Garbee> I'm also not sure of any except the specific community rooms, which you don't need to ask that question in because they will all have the answer which is there language.
# [02:23] <@Garbee> their language*
# [02:24] <web> what does this channel usually discuss?
# [02:24] <@Garbee> webplatform.org.
# [02:24] <@Garbee> Content, config, and other things relating to the site.
# [02:24] <df___> oh about site
# [02:25] <@Garbee> #web people might be able to help out. I'm not sure if they do server-side stuff.
# [02:25] <df___> change please colors in code...
# [02:25] <df___> i bad see...
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# [02:25] <@Garbee> They say "anything web" so I'd assume they are open to discuss it.
# [02:25] <@Garbee> df___, What colors? Could you link to a page that is a problem?
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# [02:26] <df___> maybe
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# [02:28] <web> i think there should be more articles in the web section of concepts
# [02:29] <df___> no i not see it page now
# [02:30] <@Garbee> df, You may have been thinking of the text color itself not the code example color. We darkend it earlier this evening. ;)
# [02:30] <df___> there are color in code blended with color of background
# [02:30] <@Garbee> web, What kind of articles would you recommend?
# [02:32] <df___> oh okey :)
# [02:33] <df___> Why Oracle and Adobe are not involved in the project?
# [02:33] <@Garbee> Adobe is.
# [02:33] <@Garbee> Oracle, don't know. You would need to ask beings greater than I about that one.
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# [02:34] <df___> then where docs about flash?
# [02:34] <@Garbee> Flash is not a web standard so we aren't focusing on documenting it at the moment.
# [02:34] <@Garbee> In the future, it is a possibility.
# [02:35] <@Garbee> Right now the main focus is on web standards and accessibility.
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# [02:35] <@Garbee> From there we will expand the scope a bit perhaps. It is still to be decided.
# [02:36] <df___> ok
# [02:36] <df___> but i not undestand with Oracle?
# [02:36] <df___> Oracle not because Google member?
# [02:36] <df___> no?
# [02:36] <@Garbee> I don't know.
# [02:36] <df___> ok
# [02:37] <@Garbee> Oracle could have been approached by the projects creators and simply denied to be involved.
# [02:37] <df___> Java too will in future ?
# [02:37] <@Garbee> Or they could have not even been asked and they could request to become a steward for the project.
# [02:37] <@Garbee> I simply don't know that is known to the projects creators.
# [02:38] <@Garbee> Java just like Flash and Silverlight. Maybe they could be included or it could be decided to not include them in the docs.
# [02:38] <@Garbee> It all depends on how things go after getting the standards going.
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# [02:39] <df___> When will the standards? How long to wait? A month?
# [02:39] <@Garbee> We don't know.
# [02:40] <df___> :)
# [02:40] <@Garbee> It all depends on how long it takes us to get what we have in order.
# [02:40] <df___> ok
# [02:40] <@Garbee> It could be a day, or 6 months, or longer.
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# [02:40] <df___> ok
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# [02:41] <df___> I'll be watching ...
# [02:41] <df___> thanks to you for help
# [02:41] <@Garbee> You're welcome.
# [02:42] <df___> ok
# [02:42] <df___> bye bye good night
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# [02:45] <web> what can i do about passing validation when using snippets of code like a facebook like button, or should i just ignore the errors from that?
# [02:47] <@Garbee> Remove the button.
# [02:48] <web> but i want the button
# [02:48] <@Garbee> Then deal with errors that come from it and complain to Facebook about it.
# [02:48] <web> snotty
# [02:48] <@Garbee> I use Google's Pagespeed mod and it causes errors everywhere.
# [02:49] <@Garbee> Nothing that can really be done.
# [02:49] <@Garbee> As long as it doesn't *break* the page it is fine.
# [02:49] <@Garbee> That is when you should really get complaining.
# [02:49] <@eternicode> people still aim for validation?
# [02:50] <@Garbee> eternicode, I do for HTML. CSS I may get back into since the validator can now treat vendor prefixes as warnings.
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# [02:50] <@eternicode> huh
# [02:50] <@Garbee> My final code is HTML valid, but the Pagespeed mod invalidates it. I don't care though because the perf boost is so worth it.
# [02:51] <web> what is a pagespeed mod
# [02:51] <@Garbee> https://developers.google.com/speed/pagespeed/
# [02:51] <@Garbee> An Apache module to do speed boosts on the fly.
# [02:51] <@Garbee> It can also be used via a service (CNAME in your DNS iirc.)
# [02:51] <@Garbee> Very useful and worth using if you manage your own server.
# [02:52] <@Garbee> It can do cool things like automatically deferring javascript from running, so then you don't need to put it at the bottom of your page.
# [02:52] <@mdel> tested pagespeed-nginx last night, might run some benchies tonight
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# [02:53] <web> garbee, thanks mate
# [02:53] <@Garbee> Your welcome.
# [02:53] <@Garbee> You're*
# [02:53] <web> does you site use sql or nosql?
# [02:53] <@Garbee> MySQL
# [02:53] <@Garbee> The software I run requires it.
# [02:53] <@mdel> http://bricss.net/post/33788072565/using-sass-source-maps-in-webkit-inspector
# [02:53] <@Garbee> I don't mind though.
# [02:53] <web> whats you opinions on nosql
# [02:54] <@Garbee> mdel, AWESOME! I noticed the setting was added but didn't know how to use it.
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# [02:54] <@Garbee> web, I don't know too much about noSQL to talk about it.
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# [02:55] <mike5w3c> about validation, it's better to use the validator the way you use a lint checker, to help catch things you might have missed, and you can ignore the things it reports that you're already aware of
# [02:56] <@mdel> +1 to that
# [02:56] <mike5w3c> http://validator.keegan.st/ has an experimental UI that lets you do that
# [02:56] <@mdel> unless you want to put one of those fancy "my site validates" badges on your page
# [02:56] <mike5w3c> we may end up porting that to http://validator.w3.org/nu/ and http://validator.nu/
# [02:56] <@Garbee> mdel, When did those get fancy?
# [02:57] <@mdel> Garbee: good point
# [02:57] <mike5w3c> mdel: yeah we intentionally don't provide those badges for the HTML5 validator
# [02:57] <@mdel> oh cool, didnt realize that
# [02:57] <@Garbee> I actually saw someone in a room a few days ago saying "They validated to put the badges on their clients pages so the clients could see how *clean* their work was compared to other developers." I just about died laughing.
# [02:57] <web> maybe webplaform should provide a validator that ignores the code you know wont validate
# [02:58] <@Garbee> How would you detect what code the user knows won't validate?
# [02:58] <@mdel> web: or just a page explaining the purpose of using a validator :)
# [02:58] <@Garbee> The thing is you *need* to show all errors. The developer reading it needs to parse the output.
# [02:58] <@Garbee> If you ignore outputting things then the validator essentially becomes useless.
# [02:58] <web> mdel: yeah that is probably an alot simpler idea
# [02:59] <@Garbee> But, the validators do need to accept certain things like the CSS one now does. It can take vendor prefixes and make them warnings compared to all out errors.
# [02:59] <mike5w3c> one feature of http://validator.keegan.st/ is that the filters are persistent
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# [03:00] <@arkhi> Good morning!
# [03:00] <mike5w3c> so if you tell it once to ignore errors about the facebook like button, it won't report them again at all next time you validate
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# [03:01] <@Garbee> That is cool.
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# [03:02] <web> i agree
# [03:02] <web> I am off guys, speak soon.
# [03:02] <@Garbee> Huh, Maybe the move to Pagespeed 1.0 cleaned up the errors it made.
# [03:02] <@Garbee> I'm not seeing any now on my page.
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# [03:02] <@Garbee> See ya web.
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# [04:52] <techcruiser> hello all
# [04:53] <@arkhi> Hello techcruiser
# [04:54] <techcruiser> so my experience is in video editing. can i still help?
# [04:55] <@arkhi> Yes techcruiser, you can always help. :)
# [04:55] <@arkhi> http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Most_Wanted_Tasks
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# [05:02] <techcruiser> this looks like a lot of programming, i only have a small programming experience
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# [05:11] <paul_irish> techcruiser: you could bring over some compatibility table information
# [05:12] <paul_irish> from MDN and quirksmode
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# [05:14] <techcruiser> I'm sorry i don't know what that is
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# [05:48] <@arkhi> techcruiser: For example on http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/html/elements/section#Compatibility
# [05:48] <@arkhi> There is a compatibility list.
# [05:49] <@arkhi> -list+table
# [05:49] <@arkhi> The information in this table is coming from different sources.
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# [05:53] <@arkhi> This can be http://caniuse.com/#search=section
# [05:53] <@arkhi> Mozilla Developer Network (MDN): https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/HTML/Element/section#Compatibility
# [05:53] <@arkhi> or Microsoft Developer Network (MSDN): http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ie/gg593059%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
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# [05:54] <@arkhi> The idea is to check that the data in WPD matches those sources of information.
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#
# Session Start: Thu Oct 18 13:15:16 2012
# Session Ident: #webplatform
# [13:15] * Now talking in #webplatform
# [13:15] * Topic is 'conversation about webplatform.org • faq: http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:FAQ • logs: http://talk.webplatform.org/chatlogs • bugs: http://goo.gl/bTTpT • recent activity: http://goo.gl/oqZu4'
# [13:15] * Set by paul_irish!~paul_iris@ve.hsh6wjwx.vesrv.com on Thu Oct 18 07:20:50
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# [13:20] <@_WiZZarD> divya: site is up from Netherlands
# [13:20] <@divya> cool no worries then.
# [13:20] <@divya> no need to call the police
# [13:21] <@_WiZZarD> <arkhi> Error 503 No healthy backends << thats what it said earlier this morning
# [13:21] <@_WiZZarD> was fixed in like 30 minutes though
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# [13:22] <eighty4> divya: I lurked around a little and read your twitter. "I have used the Kindle for about 30mins. Spent $30 already & this is the best experience I have had on a kindle ever." Is "your experience" of kindle good from the start? Or is it just a poor mans iPad?
# [13:22] <@divya> kindle is not an ipad
# [13:22] <@divya> does not serve same usecase.
# [13:22] <@divya> it is a good replacement for books.
# [13:23] <@divya> i doubt ipad is that.
# [13:23] <@divya> yeah it has always been good eighty4
# [13:23] <@divya> but i really missed touch interface
# [13:23] <@divya> this touch screen thing is great but i think it still needs physical buttons for navigating forward and backward
# [13:24] <eighty4> kk. I have a kindle keyboard (or what it might be called?) And while I'm ok with it I much prefer my iPad.
# [13:25] <@divya> i dislike reading for a long time on those bright devices.
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# [13:26] <noxoc> I tried to read a whole book on the iPad. Didn't work for me - though I prefer it for tech related books.
# [13:27] <noxoc> code samples are just messed up on the kindle.
# [13:27] <eighty4> I mostly read english literature and the "look up word" feature on the iPad is way better than on kindle :/
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# [13:29] <noxoc> Agreed. Also highlighting and making notes is on the iPad way more comfortable.
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# [13:30] <@Garbee> I hate tech related stuff on e-readers.
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# [13:33] <noxoc> I normally would too, but I hate more to have outdated techbooks on my shelf.
# [13:33] <noxoc> waste of trees so to say :)
# [13:34] <@Garbee> Recycle when they get that old.
# [13:34] <@arkhi> Tine to go… Enjoy your day, Folks!
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# [13:38] <noxoc> Problem with techbooks is, that they do get old fairly quickly. (eg books on NodeJS)
# [13:38] <noxoc> Though I have techbooks that are timeless.
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# [13:54] <@divya> noxoc: it is very comfortable on the new paperwhite.
# [13:54] <@divya> not that i take notes.
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# [13:59] <noxoc> well, not really notes. But I like to highlight interesting passages and export them later to my Evernote.
# [14:00] <noxoc> The paperwhite is a really great thing, but I haven't used my old kindle in a while so I don't see myself spending money in that direction in the near future :) I'd rather invest in other gadgets atm.
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# [14:02] * eighty4 notes that he started yet another OT discussion :)
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# [15:55] <dontcallmedom> hi there; I'm at the ParisWeb conference; and will organize a short discovery/discussion session on WebPlatform.org at 4:50pm
# [15:55] <dontcallmedom> this is both a FYI, and maybe also a request for ideas on things I should highlight
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# [16:01] <@Sandkorn> dontcallmedom: are they streaming?
# [16:01] <dontcallmedom> they are, but not the session I'm organizing
# [16:01] <dontcallmedom> (it's more of a last-minute barcamp session)
# [16:01] <@Sandkorn> k :-)
# [16:07] * dontcallmedom finds the flow of updates seems to kind of low today http://docs.webplatform.org/w/index.php?namespace=0&title=Special%3ARecentChanges
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# [16:10] <@_WiZZarD> barcamp?
# [16:10] <@_WiZZarD> add more booze
# [16:10] <@_WiZZarD> ;)
# [16:10] <@_WiZZarD> or coffee, whatever suits you
# [16:11] <@_WiZZarD> we did have some minor issues this morning
# [16:11] <@_WiZZarD> but still ..
# [16:12] <@_WiZZarD> day isn't over yet
# [16:13] <@_WiZZarD> on the other hand: you could compare todays stats to those of earlier this week to point out why we need more contributors
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# [16:21] <@ravenzz> this is funny, I'll be in paris from the 20th till the 25..seems like that I'll missi both ParisWeb and test the web forward
# [16:21] <@_WiZZarD> lol
# [16:21] <@_WiZZarD> :)
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# [16:21] * @_WiZZarD just keeps sitting at his desk in the Netherlands
# [16:22] <@_WiZZarD> lousy weather anyways :)
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# [16:24] <@ravenzz> yes I live in Denmark so... it is even worse I guess
# [16:25] <@_WiZZarD> more chance on snow
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# [16:25] <@_WiZZarD> Dutch weather consists of rain 90% of the year
# [16:25] <@_WiZZarD> the other 10% its snowing
# [16:26] <@ravenzz> same here I guess + damn wind
# [16:27] <@ravenzz> this going to be my first winter in here
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# [16:37] <@ravenzz> what is the more appropriate role for secondary <header> elements?
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# [16:40] <@Garbee> ravenzz, I think it depends on what that header contains.
# [16:43] <@ravenzz> headings
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# [16:43] <@Garbee> What is the *meaning* of the content?
# [16:44] <@ravenzz> there is no specific meaning, but wait
# [16:45] <@Garbee> Then don't give it a role.
# [16:45] <@ravenzz> actually I could have the main one with role banner
# [16:45] <@ravenzz> exactly
# [16:45] <@Garbee> If the content has no specific meaning, then just let it inherit the role of the parent.
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# [16:58] <@ravenzz> another one, <time> "fuzzy dates" (eg. YYYY-MM) don't validate, is it just validator's fault? or they are not allowed anymore?
# [16:59] <mike5w3c> ravenzz: validator is not up to date with the spec for that
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# [16:59] <mike5w3c> but I will soon be landing a change that adds support
# [16:59] <mike5w3c> and pushing it to http://validator.w3.org/nu/
# [16:59] <mike5w3c> bug me about it in a couple days
# [17:00] <@ravenzz> cool
# [17:01] <@ravenzz> thank you
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# [17:04] <@ravenzz> see you later
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# [17:46] <@fr0zenice> heya
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# [17:54] <peterlubbers> Hi everyone, just want to let you know that we're having a San Francisco HTML5 User Group meetup tonight in which we will spend some time going over Web Platform Docs. There is still space if you're in the area: http://www.sfhtml5.org/events/68008012/
# [17:54] * mstalfoort is now known as manuchill
# [17:57] <@Garbee> :( Can't come.
# [17:57] <@Garbee> Have fun though.
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The end :)