/irc-logs / freenode / #webplatform / 2013-02-21 / end

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  205. # [18:05] <@_cheney> WebPlatform talk @w3conf coming up, livestream: http://www.ustream.tv/w3c/theater
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  207. # [18:09] <@fr0zenice> lagging here :(
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  304. # [20:59] <rmadmin> hey, is there a big reason why people aren't porting over all the MDN articles, or is this a viable thing to help contribute?
  305. # [20:59] <@Garbee> A lot of MDN (if not all) was of the initial content that scripts imported.
  306. # [20:59] <@Garbee> We are working on getting it cleaned up. ;)
  307. # [21:00] <@Garbee> MDN was one of five (iirc) doc sites whos content was imported before launch.
  308. # [21:01] <rmadmin> because basic things, like object references for Array, String, etc are either hard to find or not present. I'd like to start using web platform docs over MDN, so I'd be happy to help build these if it's needed
  309. # [21:02] * rmadmin is now known as bendman
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  312. # [21:04] <@Garbee> They are probably just tucked away somewhere. Our current search is horrendous.
  313. # [21:05] <@Garbee> There is some information on Arrays here: http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/concepts/programming/Core_JavaScript_Objects
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  315. # [21:06] <ronaldmansveld> I agree, for instance: searching for "Array.filter" works, but I haven't been able to find it through docs -> JS -> Objects where you'd expect it
  316. # [21:07] <ronaldmansveld> Perhaps the Objects page should be tagged with 'Needs Summary' as well?
  317. # [21:07] <@Garbee> Yea, we need lots of organization work. Making sure things are linked to from the logical places.
  318. # [21:07] <ronaldmansveld> (Since only date is mentioned at the moment)
  319. # [21:07] <Kayle_nit> the site of webplatform is itself not uder friendly
  320. # [21:07] <Kayle_nit> It should be modified
  321. # [21:07] <bendman> so maybe you guys could use help organizing "directory" type pages to make it easier to navigate
  322. # [21:08] <@Garbee> The objects page needs a few flags. It is only one link. :P
  323. # [21:08] <@Garbee> So flag it up.
  324. # [21:08] <@Garbee> There are many frustrations with it.
  325. # [21:08] <@Garbee> Most of mine lie with the Mediawiki underpinnings.
  326. # [21:09] <Kayle_nit> I would love to contribute but right now I am busy with me semesters but I would like to contribute during summers i.e. may to july
  327. # [21:09] <@Garbee> I honestly think Mediawiki was built for simply large scale data storage. Not large scale *and* organized/navigable.
  328. # [21:09] <@Garbee> The form/templates put on top help in places, but they also cause their own set of issues.
  329. # [21:10] <@Garbee> bendman, "directory", Do you mean the top-level topic pages?
  330. # [21:11] <@Garbee> That is something that an update was supposed to do. Taking us from the table listings to the nice boxed layout with pictures for the section headings.
  331. # [21:11] <bendman> ie: http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/javascript/objects
  332. # [21:11] <@Garbee> Well, those are supposedly handled by the template system.
  333. # [21:11] <@Garbee> Automatically created based on children.
  334. # [21:11] <@Garbee> But, I'd need to ask someone at Google to confirm... iirc it is Alex.
  335. # [21:11] <bendman> ah… so the children need to be assigned a parent...
  336. # [21:12] <@Garbee> Well, they need to be put in the right place URL wise.
  337. # [21:12] <@Garbee> That gives them their "parent".
  338. # [21:12] <@Garbee> Once again iirc.
  339. # [21:12] <@fr0zenice> not necessary :)
  340. # [21:12] <@Garbee> I personally don't get Mediawiki too well, I don't like the way it is constructed. :P
  341. # [21:13] <@Garbee> Gets the job done though.
  342. # [21:13] <@fr0zenice> there are actual two types of listings, one via SubPageList and one via semantic properties
  343. # [21:14] <@Garbee> Why is /javascript/objects/Date its own thing apart from /javascript/objects?
  344. # [21:14] <bendman> ah, also some duplicates… http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/concepts/programming/Core_JavaScript_Objects looks like a version of http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/concepts/programming/javascript/core_objects
  345. # [21:14] <@Garbee> bendman, If you see things like that, you can flag as a merge candidate.
  346. # [21:14] <bendman> ah, thanks
  347. # [21:14] <bendman> I'm rather new to the whole wiki thing
  348. # [21:14] <@Garbee> Someone would need to go through and see if there are any differences.
  349. # [21:15] <@Garbee> Then figure out which one logically to keep, and then do a merge.
  350. # [21:15] * gseguin is now known as gseguin|away
  351. # [21:15] <@fr0zenice> there hasn't been much work put into /javascript or /concepts yet, main focus atm is /css and /apis
  352. # [21:15] <@Garbee> Do you have an account already?
  353. # [21:15] <ronaldmansveld> The core-objects page has now been marked as a split-candidate, due to the heap of different objects being talked about
  354. # [21:15] <@Garbee> If so, it is as simple as logging in, then going to the "edit" page (Not edit source, don't touch that one.) Then just check the flag. Give it a summary like "Added merge candidate flag" and then submit the change.
  355. # [21:16] <ronaldmansveld> so that should come up in the lists soon enough
  356. # [21:16] <bendman> I do now
  357. # [21:16] <@Garbee> I think first we should worry about merging copies.
  358. # [21:16] <@Garbee> Then splitting.
  359. # [21:16] <ronaldmansveld> we should indeed, makes for easier work
  360. # [21:17] <@Garbee> Yup, keep everyone on the same page. And makes merging one to one easier than one to 5+.
  361. # [21:17] <bendman> ronaldmansveld: was thinking the same thing. each *method* usually has it's own page. all objects and object methods being together makes for unusable docs
  362. # [21:18] <@Garbee> I think the point of that was for a simple overview in another doc system.
  363. # [21:18] <@Garbee> In ours that type of thing is best left as a concept page.
  364. # [21:18] <@Garbee> That information is really best as individual pages though for each section.
  365. # [21:18] <@Garbee> With a new core concept pages being made later on.
  366. # [21:18] <ronaldmansveld> bendman: indeed, look for instance at the indexedDB pages, where all information has clearly been split up
  367. # [21:19] <ronaldmansveld> Garbee: you mean to keep this page, as well as create new individual pages?
  368. # [21:19] <@Garbee> Do remember it is structured (or meant to be) as actual tech docs. Concept, Tutorial, and Reference information being in their own areas.
  369. # [21:20] <@Garbee> ronaldlokers, No. I'm saying at this point we merge then split that page. Later on worry about making our own core concept page in the proper section for it.
  370. # [21:20] <@Garbee> Because I see what it was meant to do in another system, but in ours it doesn't make sense the way it is now.
  371. # [21:20] <ronaldmansveld> Fair enough
  372. # [21:22] <@Garbee> I need Chris to get off vacation so I can ask what he was doing with the Beginners Guide...
  373. # [21:22] <@Garbee> He changed it to the new layout, then changed it back last month.
  374. # [21:22] <@Garbee> :P Kinda tripped me up when I went to work on it.
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  377. # [21:30] <bendman> marked them both as merge candidates as well
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  379. # [21:32] <ronaldmansveld> Actually, there is no need to merge
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  381. # [21:32] <ronaldmansveld> the pages are exactly the same, as far as I can see
  382. # [21:33] <bendman> some errors in the code on one it looks like, but I don't see any other differences
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  386. # [21:34] <ronaldmansveld> And one seems to be incomplete (cut-off)
  387. # [21:34] <ronaldmansveld> http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/concepts/programming/Core_JavaScript_Objects is cut-off
  388. # [21:34] <ronaldmansveld> http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/concepts/programming/javascript/core_objects is complete, so it seems
  389. # [21:36] <bendman> yeah, that's the one (capital letters) that also has incorrectly built links
  390. # [21:37] <ronaldmansveld> Then I'd say: ditch the one with capital letters, and split the complete one
  391. # [21:37] <bendman> makes sense to me… who does that stuff?
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  393. # [21:38] <ronaldmansveld> I guess some higher power, but I can mark it as a deletion candidate
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  395. # [21:40] <bendman> can't find destination pages for any of the linked methods either, like Array.shift()
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  397. # [21:41] <ronaldmansveld> Guess those should be created then, when splitting the article
  398. # [21:43] <bendman> ok, so I should wait on moving those over from MDN or elsewhere?
  399. # [21:43] <ronaldmansveld> The complete article _is_ the article that has been moved from MDN
  400. # [21:43] <@Garbee> Anyone can do it bendman.
  401. # [21:44] <@Garbee> iirc the only thing currently restricted is actual deleting of pages. That is admins only atm. (And messing with templates, but that is its own beast entirely.)
  402. # [21:44] <bendman> Garbee: do moving them over, or do deleting them/merging/etc?
  403. # [21:44] <ronaldmansveld> Garbee: the article wasn't marked CC-BY-SA, so what about the splitted pages?
  404. # [21:44] <bendman> ronaldmansveld: MDN has these though: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/Array/shift there are associated pages for each method
  405. # [21:45] <@Garbee> If the pages are mostly the same, one is CC-BY-SA and the other isn't. Move the license over if needed.
  406. # [21:45] <ronaldmansveld> well, the one currently marked for deletion wasn't complete. So I guess something went wrong while importing
  407. # [21:45] <@Garbee> bendman, We will eventually have/organize those reference pages.
  408. # [21:45] <ronaldmansveld> it wasn't sourced as MDN either
  409. # [21:46] <ronaldmansveld> the complete one is though, and isn't marked as CC-BY-SA either
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  412. # [21:46] <ronaldmansveld> So if we split the page, and copy/paste the contents, it isn't real content, and shouldn't be marked CC-BY-SA either (in my opinion)
  413. # [21:46] <ronaldmansveld> * isn't new content
  414. # [21:48] <@Garbee> http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/concepts/programming/Core_JavaScript_Objects = hand created before launch. Probably a manual copy. Looking into the other one now.
  415. # [21:49] <@Garbee> yea, http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/concepts/programming/javascript/core_objects needs to keep CC-BY-SA.
  416. # [21:49] <@Garbee> It is from MDN directly.
  417. # [21:50] <ronaldmansveld> hmm, it wasn't marked that way when I marked it for splitting :P
  418. # [21:50] <ronaldmansveld> but if all MDN content is CC-BY-SA I'll add it now
  419. # [21:50] <@Garbee> I check the history log.
  420. # [21:50] <@Garbee> Janet imported it directly.
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  423. # [21:51] <@Garbee> The Core_Javascript_Objects page was hand created by Luz. Licensing was probably just overlooked.
  424. # [21:52] <ronaldmansveld> fair enough
  425. # [21:53] <_barbagallo> Hey did you guys turn off the Commenting when hovering over a section?
  426. # [21:56] <bendman> so, currently no way to contribute by moving over MDN or other articles about the JS API?
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  429. # [21:58] <ronaldmansveld> bendman, as Garbee said: Anyone can do it
  430. # [21:59] <ronaldmansveld> we just have to think of the best way to tackle this one :P
  431. # [22:00] <ronaldmansveld> I'd say: split the article first, then edit the articles to link to the non-existent detail pages (red links) for properties and methods, and then add those pages
  432. # [22:00] <@Garbee> _barbagallo, Nope. Should still be active.
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  434. # [22:01] <@Garbee> bendman, You can port, just make sure attribution is given. Also, try to make sure it isn't already buried somewhere in the docs from the import.
  435. # [22:01] <@Garbee> They have done a lot of work in the API section lately.
  436. # [22:01] <_barbagallo> @Garbee strange, doesn't seem to be showing up on hover.. I'll try again in a second
  437. # [22:02] <@Garbee> _barbagallo, No point.
  438. # [22:02] <@Garbee> It is not working for some reason.
  439. # [22:02] <bendman> ronaldmansveld: okay, just checking! that makes sense to me. I'll do an extensive search before making any new pages too
  440. # [22:02] <@fr0zenice> Doug has hidden the comments some days ago
  441. # [22:02] <@Garbee> Well, red links may not always mean that is where information is supposed to go.
  442. # [22:03] <@Garbee> Some are left over from importing, linking to places that shouldn't exist.
  443. # [22:03] <_barbagallo> Garbee: haha ok cool. thought I was going nuts. I wanted to just check on a comment/question I asked in the JS area.
  444. # [22:04] <bendman> Garbee: yeah, also a lot of the URLs don't really match how WPD seems to be organized...
  445. # [22:04] <ronaldmansveld> Garbee, true, but when we split the page, and create the red links ourselves they should be the place where information should be added
  446. # [22:04] <@Garbee> _barbagallo, To be honest, probably nothing. Sadly, the comment system can be difficult to keep up with, few people even try as far as I can tell.
  447. # [22:04] <_barbagallo> @Garbee gotcha, can we completely turn that off? Seems clunky.
  448. # [22:05] <@Garbee> bendman, Yea... For sanities sake I have no comment...
  449. # [22:05] <@Garbee> _barbagallo, Turn what off? comments?
  450. # [22:05] <@Garbee> ronaldlokers, Ah, yes. Hand-made ones yes.
  451. # [22:06] <_barbagallo> Garbee, yeah, if not many people are using it/it's causing issues..
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  453. # [22:07] <@Garbee> Well, right now we are going to make some tweaks to make it easier to keep up with for the short-term.
  454. # [22:08] <@Garbee> Long-term I am going to try and get it where it automatically creates issues in our new project management system. That way things can be dealt with in there.
  455. # [22:08] <@Garbee> Make things more streamlined.
  456. # [22:08] <@Garbee> Right now, the system is really only used to point out issues people have, so it makes sense to just make it transparent to people w/o asking them to go over to the PM system and submit it manually that way.
  457. # [22:08] <_barbagallo> Ok
  458. # [22:09] <_barbagallo> I just wanted to ask about adding a section, best way about it sounds like to just ask here.
  459. # [22:09] <@Garbee> Some seem to think the comments are useful for adding additional content. But I am personally of the opinion that any good content should end up *in* the docs, not in a secondary comment system.
  460. # [22:09] <_barbagallo> Ok
  461. # [22:09] <@Garbee> Yea, here and the Mailing List are the places to ask.
  462. # [22:09] <@Garbee> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webplatform/
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  464. # [22:09] <_barbagallo> Gtocha
  465. # [22:09] <_barbagallo> Gotcha*
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  467. # [22:10] <@Garbee> Also, you can file an issue under the new tracker. http://project.webplatform.org/
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  469. # [22:10] <@Garbee> Under Content.
  470. # [22:10] <@Garbee> (I am working on importing the other projects on Bugzilla. Doing Infrastructure tonight.)
  471. # [22:10] <_barbagallo> yep got that already, i'll most likely only ask about questionable stuff, but I doubt I'll add anything questionable
  472. # [22:10] <_barbagallo> ok cool, sounds good
  473. # [22:13] <ronaldmansveld> bendman, Garbee: See http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:New_Page
  474. # [22:13] <ronaldmansveld> A template for Javascript Objects still has to be created
  475. # [22:13] <ronaldmansveld> So I think it's wise to wait for that to happen before we split the page ;)
  476. # [22:13] <ronaldmansveld> (it's last todo, at the bottom of the page)
  477. # [22:14] <@Garbee> ronaldlokers, Yea, I'll see if I can't kick the guy doing the template stuff to work on that one. ;)
  478. # [22:15] <@Garbee> ofc we would need to discuss what exactly is needed for that. So expect planning to be done in four months and implementation to be done in two weeks.
  479. # [22:15] <ronaldmansveld> Sure, we can copy the source from the Date-object, but let's do this right instead of rushy
  480. # [22:15] <ronaldmansveld> hahaha, almost sounds like a real-world project :P
  481. # [22:15] <bendman> ronaldmansveld: so… no way to add new API pages yet? :P waiting for a template decision to be made?
  482. # [22:15] <@Garbee> Uh, Whenever you say "copy source"... Do so with *extreme* caution.
  483. # [22:16] <@Garbee> Honestly, regular users shouldn't have access to any pages source unless it is in a namespace.
  484. # [22:16] <ronaldmansveld> I said we shouldn't do it ;) No need to rush things when they can be done right ;)
  485. # [22:16] <@Garbee> The template system is extremely complicated. We need to make it so only trusted people who know what they are doing with templates can actually get to source.
  486. # [22:17] <@Garbee> Sure, we have plenty of things that can be done while the template is made.
  487. # [22:17] <ronaldmansveld> I understand that, and no, I don't feel called upon (yet) to be part of that small circle of people ;)
  488. # [22:17] <ronaldmansveld> http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Getting_Started#Five-minute_tasks ;)
  489. # [22:17] <ronaldmansveld> we can all knock ourselves out ;)
  490. # [22:18] <@Garbee> Why is it so sad we even have that list?
  491. # [22:18] <ronaldmansveld> Well, to brighten your day: no articles are marked for grammar/spelling anymore
  492. # [22:18] <ronaldmansveld> And most of the summaries are not needed
  493. # [22:19] <ronaldmansveld> (unless you're really fond on having a summary of the html-tag)
  494. # [22:19] <@fr0zenice> ronaldmansveld: if someday you want to be part of that circle... http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Template_Corps ;)
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  496. # [22:22] <ronaldmansveld> fr0zenice, looks like I have to dive into MediaWiki then :P
  497. # [22:23] <@fr0zenice> not only that, but also Semantic MediaWiki and Semantic Forms!
  498. # [22:23] <@Garbee> Let's just start the rampage to end the madness and get off Mediawiki...
  499. # [22:24] <@Garbee> 3 systems stacked on top of each other to make this work most of the time... WTF?
  500. # [22:24] <ronaldmansveld> You do realize this isn't really encouraging to become part of the TC, right? ;)
  501. # [22:25] <@fr0zenice> why not, it's fun :D
  502. # [22:25] <@Garbee> ronaldlokers, haha.
  503. # [22:25] <@Garbee> yea.
  504. # [22:26] <@Garbee> I'm not here for encouragement all the time. I *will* point out what I see as reality.
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  524. # [22:49] <bendman> any ideas on which of these should exist, or both?: http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/dom/HTMLElement, http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/dom/apis/HTMLElement
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  531. # [22:54] <@fr0zenice> dom/apis/HTMLElement seems wrong
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  537. # [23:11] <bendman> fr0zenice: just about everything in the dom/apis page is actually on the parent (dom) page. they should all be moved to one place, right?
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The end :)