/irc-logs / freenode / #webplatform / 2013-03-21 / end

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  74. # [03:02] <meanyface> If an article is flagged as a needing a summary but also flagged as a deletion candidate, should I bother with adding a summary? (e.g. http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/Meta:HTML/Elements/head)
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  467. # [22:00] <puresight> Hi
  468. # [22:01] <puresight> Is there any kind of training certification or credential that is endorsed by the World Wide Web Consortium?
  469. # [22:02] <@Garbee> No.
  470. # [22:02] <@Garbee> afaik
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  472. # [22:03] <puresight> I can understand that W3C would want to remain neutral, not acting in the capacity of accredidation in regards to education programs or developer skills examinations.
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  475. # [22:04] <puresight> What are some non-affiliated credentialing organizations or certifications that a web designer or developer could pursue?
  476. # [22:04] <@Garbee> None are recognized.
  477. # [22:05] <@Garbee> No employer recognizes web dev/design certs. They want to see a portfolio of code, such as plentiful github activity.
  478. # [22:05] <@Garbee> Well, some server-side technology certifications *maybe* if they exist.
  479. # [22:05] <@Garbee> But even then, they are rarely taken into account.
  480. # [22:06] <puresight> I've heard that said, however personal experience with applying and interviewing consistently shows me that employers have their own tech quizzes to assess knowledge.
  481. # [22:07] <puresight> Maybe there's a difference in hiring or career ladder practice between startups V new media V old IT/Fortune 500 co's
  482. # [22:07] <@Garbee> Well, even older companies don't recognize certs for web dev.
  483. # [22:07] <@Garbee> They can quiz you all day, because what you say there matters. Not what happens on a test in another place at another time.
  484. # [22:08] <@Garbee> Plus, the rapid movement of the web makes it inherently bad for certs (until recently when they are required to expire after 3 years.)
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  486. # [22:08] <puresight> Good points. I'll just focus on my github repo's and portfolio instead. Thanks Garbee!
  487. # [22:09] <@Garbee> You should also focus on things like Codeschool stuff.
  488. # [22:09] <@Garbee> They actually give you badges to represent your completion of courses.
  489. # [22:09] <@Garbee> Along with udacity courses.
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  491. # [22:09] <@Garbee> Udacity is a place that people do pay attention to (a few people have even been hired at Google from taking a course on building a search engine there.)
  492. # [22:10] <@Garbee> The best "cert" things you can do are that. Find the online resources that are teaching updated info and give you some kind of recognition for completion, do those courses along with building a good portfolio.
  493. # [22:10] <@Garbee> Beyond even that, contribute to open source projects.
  494. # [22:10] <ronaldmansveld> I'm pretty sure even server-side certs aren't that valuable anymore
  495. # [22:10] <@Garbee> Modern employers love to see people contributing to Open Source.
  496. # [22:11] <ronaldmansveld> I can't even remember the last time an employer asked for something like a Zend-certificate
  497. # [22:11] <ronaldmansveld> and indeed what Garbee says: Open Source is the biggest plus you can have in you portfolio
  498. # [22:11] <@Garbee> ronaldmansveld, Yea they shouldn't be at least. Although, I can see things like SQL certs and vendor-specific server-side stuff being useful. But languages like PHP/Ruby, I don't ever see as useful certs.
  499. # [22:12] <ronaldmansveld> Garbee: I think with most server-side things (even SQL) it's more important to show you have the programming mindset, instead of knowing how to use a specific language
  500. # [22:13] <ronaldmansveld> it's the mind-set (logical thinking etc.) you need, a specific language can be learned
  501. # [22:13] <@Garbee> For sure. But, when doing vendor-specific things like MsSQL and running Windows servers, having MS Certs helps get those jobs.
  502. # [22:13] <@Garbee> So, cater to the crowd in that case.
  503. # [22:14] <ronaldmansveld> ie: I program most of the time in PHP, but I know I can switch to ASP, Java or C with just a few weeks of throwing myself onto the language
  504. # [22:14] <@Garbee> For actual *programming* though, only proprietary languages/runtimes will a cert come in handy, even then it isn't near as much as portfolio code.
  505. # [22:14] <ronaldmansveld> yeah, MS-certs might be the exception. But even then mostly for network/sys-admin like jobs
  506. # [22:15] <@Garbee> I seem to have hit a bug in the new Dev Tools course from Codeschool/Google.
  507. # [22:15] <puresight> I'm thinking specifically of assessment of skills for Responsive (mobile first) Web Design.
  508. # [22:16] <@Garbee> For that, you can only have portfolio work to show off what you do, and contribute to open source projects aimed at RWD.
  509. # [22:16] <@Garbee> RWD is still *highly* volatile.
  510. # [22:17] <@Garbee> Show them you can do it and want to help make the future of RWD better. Even further get involved in the standards conversation on the future technologies that will improve RWD.
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  519. # [22:49] <@ravenzz> puresight write code, contribute, be curious (don't misread this :o). I'd rather have solid skills in less popular stuff than care about RWD...is just a trend. By that I mean accesibility, separation between content and presentation, graceful degradation etc
  520. # [22:49] <@ravenzz> oops he left :(
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The end :)