/irc-logs / freenode / #webplatform / 2013-03-31 / end

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  107. # [13:32] <kymdusting> Hello? I dont get it? IRC I mean...
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  185. # [19:25] <blatt> frozenice - do you time for a quick question re semantic queries on docs.webplatform.org? We were talking about this on Friday (alang)
  186. # [19:26] <@frozenice> sure!
  187. # [19:26] <blatt> ah, fantastic
  188. # [19:26] <blatt> So, summary works based on your help, thank you very much.
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  190. # [19:26] <blatt> The one I'm having a hard time figuring out is I'm trying to get the list of possible values (for say css/properties/display) and the description for each value.
  191. # [19:27] <blatt> When I did an ExportRDF, I was able to see that the info is there, but not as direct properties of display
  192. # [19:27] <blatt> I could get the list of possible values easily, but the descriptions are what's tripping me up.
  193. # [19:28] <blatt> http://docs.webplatform.org/w/api.php?action=ask&query=%5B%5BPath::css/properties/display%5D%5D%7C?Summary%7C?Possible_value&format=json
  194. # [19:28] <blatt> that gives me summary and list of possible values
  195. # [19:29] <@frozenice> yep
  196. # [19:30] <@frozenice> I added the Possible_value property, but the description of each isn't stored as a page property
  197. # [19:31] <blatt> Do we have a sparql endpoint that I could query and get the necessary info?
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  199. # [19:32] <@frozenice> hm, I don't think so
  200. # [19:32] <blatt> bummer, I know the smw can easily offer that up (or at least I thought)
  201. # [19:33] <@frozenice> yeah just reading up that, but I don't know if it would help with the descriptions of the values, because they are stored as semantic internal objects
  202. # [19:35] <blatt> Hm, not sure what an internal object is. Would the sparql endpoint be able to access all the same info that I see when I do an ExportRDF?
  203. # [19:37] <@frozenice> don't know SMW that well, but likely yeah
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  206. # [19:39] <blatt> I'm wondering which is easier, enabling sparql endpoint, or adding definitions as page properties
  207. # [19:40] <@frozenice> I'm checking if we can retrieve the value-descriptions via the api as it is now
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  210. # [19:41] <blatt> k, txs
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  212. # [19:53] <@frozenice> alright, making progress, althoug there might be an error in our templates, the description gets output multiple times, checking that...
  213. # [19:55] <blatt> very cool
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  220. # [20:14] <@frozenice> too many tabs open... uhm yeah, something is definitely wrong, somewhere :)
  221. # [20:14] <@frozenice> anyway, I added another sub-property for the raw value, you can use the following to find all values with description for a given page: http://docs.webplatform.org/w/api.php?action=ask&query=[[Value_for_property::css/properties/display]]|?Property_value|?Property_value_description&format=jsonfm
  222. # [20:15] <@frozenice> blatt :)
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  224. # [20:15] <@frozenice> just ignore the duplicate descriptions and use only the first in that array
  225. # [20:16] <@frozenice> also I've seen pages where the values themself were duplicated, so you might want to group by "Property value"
  226. # [20:17] <@frozenice> aaand the first value there "display-value" is a remainder of how it was supposed to be, need to check how exactly we want to handle that now
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  228. # [20:23] <@frozenice> huh, seems to have fixed itself, partly
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  251. # [21:59] <blatt> Sorry, had to step away. That's awesome. Thanks frozenice! I'll play around with it and let you know if I find any issues.
  252. # [21:59] <@frozenice> alrighty!
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  255. # [22:10] <blatt> So, sorry, still trying to get my head wrapped around the query format. Is there a way to query for the Summary, and the property value/descriptions all in one go or do I need to break this into 2 queries?
  256. # [22:11] <@frozenice> as the values/descriptions aren't direct properties of the page itself it has to be done in 2 queries :/
  257. # [22:12] <@frozenice> well I added a direct property for the value recently, so just the description :)
  258. # [22:12] <blatt> Right
  259. # [22:13] <@frozenice> I also need to find out if this is the way we want to do it, or if we just want to specify data types and pull possible values from them
  260. # [22:14] <blatt> So, did you need to do anything new to support 'query=[[Value_for_property::css/properties/display]]'? Is that a new template? I ultimately want to understand what you're doing.
  261. # [22:16] <@frozenice> hehe, all that semnatic stuff is a bit complicated ^^ support for that query was there
  262. # [22:18] <@frozenice> I just added another sub-property to the internal-object so you can grab the value itself
  263. # [22:18] <blatt> Maybe I can ultimately help. I used to work with RDF & SPARQL for many years.
  264. # [22:19] <blatt> How so?
  265. # [22:19] <@frozenice> I guess it's more the Semantic Media Wiki / Semantic Forms / Semantic Internal Objects stuff itself
  266. # [22:19] <blatt> right
  267. # [22:19] <@frozenice> well, if you add another "Value" section to a css property page, an internal object gets created
  268. # [22:19] <blatt> Yeah, that part is all new to me.
  269. # [22:20] <@frozenice> which is kinda an invisible page on it's own, pointing to the css property page
  270. # [22:20] <@frozenice> that internal object / invisible page gets some properties set, like the description of the value (Property_value_description)
  271. # [22:21] <@frozenice> that's where those funny names come from (css/properties/display#1), the are the titles of those "invisible pages"
  272. # [22:21] <@frozenice> *these
  273. # [22:21] <@frozenice> there were also Property_value_name and Property_value_syntax, but none that contained the raw value itself, so I added it :)
  274. # [22:22] * Parts: inkvizitor68sl (~inky@master.qs.biz)
  275. # [22:22] <@frozenice> Property_value_syntax contains the page title, a colon and the value and is printed under the "Syntax" section of http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/css/properties/display for example
  276. # [22:24] <blatt> Is there a way for me to see what you're doing? How the system is configured? It just seems to me (possibly quite wrongly) that if we provided a SPARQL endpoint, we could just query for whatever we want, and not have to add new page properties every time we wanted to ask something new.
  277. # [22:24] <blatt> Maybe I'll just set something up locally and play around with smw to get my head wrapped around it.
  278. # [22:24] <@frozenice> you need to define and set the properties on the pages first to fuel those queries, though
  279. # [22:25] <blatt> that's what confuses me.
  280. # [22:25] <@frozenice> :)
  281. # [22:25] <blatt> If I can ExportRDF and see the properties that I want, why do I still need to add the properties to the page?
  282. # [22:25] <blatt> why not query the RDF directly?
  283. # [22:26] <blatt> My question may not make sense, pointing to my lack of understanding of how this all works.
  284. # [22:26] <@frozenice> well if you can do it with the RDF, ok :)
  285. # [22:26] <blatt> Right, and the SPARQL endpoint would allow you to query the RDF.
  286. # [22:27] <@frozenice> properties have the plus that they are more flexible and can be used via the API and for queries in the pages themselves
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  296. # [22:30] <blatt> I could definitely see properties being far easier to use for inline queries for the page itself, but I would think that the SPARQL endpoint would be much more flexible for other systems to consume the data. You could just query for whatever you want, and we wouldn't have to keep updating templates/page properties, etc when someone needs something new.
  297. # [22:31] <blatt> But, I think I need to dig in more and get a better understanding how it all fits together. I could be way off base here.
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  300. # [22:32] <@frozenice> well you still need to define properties to have something to query for / list :)
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  302. # [22:33] <@frozenice> and I think without my added sub-property for the internal object you wouldn't have found the raw value in the RDP either
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  308. # [22:34] <blatt> Fair enough. Like I said, we're way beyond the limits of my understanding of how it all fits together. I'll dig in and learn more. In the meantime I'll take your word for it. :-)
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  310. # [22:34] <@frozenice> :D
  311. # [22:34] <@frozenice> may I ask what you will use the results for later?
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The end :)