/irc-logs / freenode / #webplatform / 2013-04-16 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Apr 16 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #webplatform
  3. # [00:03] * Joins: nimbu1 (~Adium@173-228-123-12.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  4. # [00:03] <eighty4> julee: I'm idling 24/7 but at my computer 08-17 + a couple of hours most evening. Not sure what I could help out with tho…
  5. # [00:04] * ericduran|away is now known as ericduran
  6. # [00:04] <eighty4> seems pointless to add my name If I can't help :)
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  8. # [00:07] <julee> We have people who would like to contribute, but may need help getting started.
  9. # [00:07] <julee> So if you can help with the steps in the Editor's Guide:
  10. # [00:07] <julee> http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Editors_Guide
  11. # [00:08] <julee> That would be great.
  12. # [00:09] <eighty4> It's fairly straight forward from what I've seen of it. I'll might add my nick later. Would be nice to at least do something good for webplatform
  13. # [00:11] <eighty4> lol… but given that my login isn't working I guess I wont.
  14. # [00:14] <julee> OK, maybe I can help you, then. ;-)
  15. # [00:14] <julee> Just do what you can, of course. And thanks for asking!
  16. # [00:18] <eighty4> it's the login that's buggy… again I guess
  17. # [00:18] <eighty4> http://talk.webplatform.org/forums/ wont let me in
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  24. # [00:34] <@Garbee> eighty4, The SSO for the forums was taken offline.
  25. # [00:34] <@Garbee> That is why it won't work at all now. ;)
  26. # [00:34] <@Garbee> We are working on taking the forums down in whole. Just a few odds and ends before that happens.
  27. # [00:34] <eighty4> Garbee: oh, great :)
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  29. # [00:35] <julee> I think Doug is working on that as we speak. But we'll be taking forums offline for the time being.
  30. # [00:36] <julee> eighty4: were you able to login at docs.webplatform.org?
  31. # [00:36] <@Garbee> Also Julee, with your bug report on the PM system not showing report an issue other than for the PRMG project, were you logged in?
  32. # [00:37] <eighty4> julee: Garbee already told me :) And yeah, docs work just fine
  33. # [00:38] <julee> Hi, Garbee! I reported several issues about forums. The only I can remember reporting on PRMG was a skin issue.
  34. # [00:38] <@Garbee> http://project.webplatform.org/prmg/issues/PRMG-12
  35. # [00:39] <@Garbee> I actually commented on there earlier, so you can just check that for what I was about to tell you. ;)
  36. # [00:39] <eighty4> Garbee: the bread crumb looks completly broke at that as well
  37. # [00:39] <@Garbee> Yea, a few things are...
  38. # [00:40] <@Garbee> Wait, breadcrumb... What resolution are you viewing with?
  39. # [00:40] <@Garbee> The crumbs look fine to me.
  40. # [00:40] <eighty4> the crumbs combined with the Issues button
  41. # [00:41] <eighty4> http://d.pr/i/IyBe
  42. # [00:41] <@Garbee> They are close yes.
  43. # [00:41] <eighty4> needs some margins there
  44. # [00:41] <@Garbee> Yea.
  45. # [00:42] <@Garbee> The default theme is fluid. This is a strict width so it throws things off a bit.
  46. # [00:42] <eighty4> mmm
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  48. # [00:44] <julee> Garbee: Ha! That was it. Still looks odd. Anyway to have greyed-out buttons showing functionality but not currently avail?
  49. # [00:45] <@Garbee> If we reprogrammed the way it works yes.
  50. # [00:45] <julee> OK, go ahead! ;-)
  51. # [00:45] * Parts: jacobg (~jacobg@sjfw1.adobe.com)
  52. # [00:45] <@Garbee> But tbh I think it is best to not show them. People may then wonder why it is grayed out vs just being available.
  53. # [00:46] <@Garbee> The whole "To show or not to show" when dealing with unavailable options is murky to really decide upon. I personally think it is best that if someone can't do something don't show it at all. if they can do something, show it.
  54. # [00:46] <@Garbee> If it is something people want, then it is something that we would need to take into account with every system upgrade in order to go reprogram it.
  55. # [00:48] <@Garbee> I'm already starting to go into the config and remove things that we won't use, like today I removed the option for "User Stories" type of issues. So that is one less option people should see when posting.
  56. # [00:48] <@Garbee> Trying to get what I can cleaned up in between taking care of these dogs... Which are qucikly needing attention again.
  57. # [00:48] <julee> Actually, if the user can only file a bug in PRMG, might they not file content or infrastructure bugs in the wrong project?
  58. # [00:49] <@Garbee> Well, guests only.
  59. # [00:49] <julee> Yes.
  60. # [00:49] <@Garbee> The reason PRMG is open vs everything else is in case the ACL ever gets messed up somehow.
  61. # [00:49] <@Garbee> That way there is somewhere (the appropriate place) to report issues like that.
  62. # [00:50] <julee> As far as removing functionality, are you doing that all by yourself? For all the options?
  63. # [00:50] <@Garbee> The people posting issues will most likely also go through our "Filing a bug" walkthrough, which will explain (currently does in my doc iirc) that logic.
  64. # [00:51] <@Garbee> Right now, I'm just doing the obvious removal/tweaking. Partially to help write the docs for letting others do it later on w/o my help.
  65. # [00:51] <julee> Actually, we're going to have Project as a global nav.
  66. # [00:51] <julee> Ah. Cool.
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  68. # [00:53] <@Garbee> Yea, Project can be global nav just fine. Honestly, let's not worry about people posting in the wrong place for that reason until it is an issue.
  69. # [00:53] <@Garbee> Right now we have people posting in PRMG because there issue deals with that subdomain vs posting it in Skin where it really belongs. Those are the kinds of things we need to work on.
  70. # [00:54] <@Garbee> That is an immediate issue. Worrying about people posting in PRMG due to simply not knowing to register/login to post where they need to can be addressed as it becomes an issue. Worrying about the best way to handle it now just seems frivilous to me when there are actual issues to worry about with the system and getting it used.
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  72. # [01:00] <julee> Garbee: It's tricky setting up the experience so people are in the right place at the right time! We'll work out priorities, definitely.
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  74. # [01:01] <@Garbee> If we are to open up every project to guest submissions then we need to integrate something like recaptcha.
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  76. # [01:03] <julee> Ugh. Yes, that's what I thought.
  77. # [01:03] <@Garbee> But there is no way I will open the spam gates w/o recaptcha in there. So if people decide we want guest submissions everywhere I'll throw together a recaptcha mod in a day or two to try and handle spam control. We already have bots making accounts in the wiki from it being broken and I simply won't let those bots post openly to the tracker.
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  80. # [01:04] <@Garbee> It should be fairly simple to say if it is a guest posting then show recaptcha, if authenticated just let them post.
  81. # [01:05] <@Garbee> I would need to check the framework that TBG uses though, which is a custom thing... :(
  82. # [01:05] <julee> Well, as you said, this is definitely not at the top of your list.
  83. # [01:05] <@Garbee> It is if people decide it is how they want the system to work.
  84. # [01:06] <julee> Yep.
  85. # [01:06] <@Garbee> I'm just not worried about it myself until I have someone tell me that they can't figure out how to post or someone told/asked because they didn't understand why only that one project is open.
  86. # [01:07] <@Garbee> But, post to the ML and see if people want to open up guest posting to all projects. If it is what ya'll want then it will easily be the top of my list only second to doing the documentation.
  87. # [01:08] <@Garbee> Documenting the system *is* my absolute highest priority atm. People need to know how to use it.
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  89. # [01:10] <julee> Oh, the PRMG bug #12 was a UI bug, assuming that UI was the same whether logged in or not.
  90. # [01:11] <@Garbee> Still a PRMG issue. And no, being logged out (guest) will have a slightly different UI due to having restricted permissions.
  91. # [01:12] <julee> Yes: I thought it was a problem with the PRMG buttons not showing up when they should.
  92. # [01:18] <@Garbee> Ok, I'm going to mark that as resolved and working as expected since it is how I intended it to be. We can have a discussion on how it *should* work without that bug being open.
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  99. # [01:31] <julee> Garbee: that sounds right to me too.
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  101. # [01:38] <@Garbee> Also I think with all of this we need to almost assume a certain level of intelligence with the people using the docs and the other systems we offer.
  102. # [01:38] <@Garbee> Making things easy is nice, but our audience is freaking geeks. What is easy to normal people can make things more difficult for them/us.
  103. # [01:39] <@Garbee> So the *simplest* method isn't always the best (as the semantic forms have almost proven.)
  104. # [01:39] <@Garbee> So we really need to talk with the people who would actually be using the system (besides just us in the loop of WPD workings) and see how they think it should work.
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  108. # [01:44] <julee> Yes. Usability feedback is always interesting.
  109. # [01:44] <julee> But, one of the reasons I was so pleased about TBG was how intuitive it is.
  110. # [01:45] <@Garbee> hehe... Wow. That shows how much you haven't used it.
  111. # [01:45] <@Garbee> It is intutive to the basic users. When you need to configure it or do more detailed things, it can just fall apart sometimes.
  112. # [01:45] <@Garbee> Most of the configuration is straightforward, if you know where to go.
  113. # [01:45] <julee> Ooo… Well, like I said: let me know if I can help!
  114. # [01:46] <@Garbee> But, at least you see why I decided to push TBG over every other pre-fab system. Which means I made the right choice.
  115. # [01:46] <@Garbee> I don't mind doing and teaching the gritty config areas (like ACL) as long as the people using it aren't *too* confused as they would have been by other systems.
  116. # [01:47] <@Garbee> Which is why I have kindof restricted things pretty heavily up front until the documentation is online. Keep it very simple until there are docs on how to use the system and people don't need to ask so many questions.
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  522. # Session Close: Wed Apr 17 00:00:00 2013

The end :)