/irc-logs / freenode / #webplatform / 2013-12-10 / end

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  196. # [18:07] <jensimmons> There will be a meeting at 1pm eastern today (in just under an hour from now) about the HTML element page design. We are going to meet in skype.
  197. # [18:08] <jensimmons> If you'd like to join us, search for me — 'jensimmons' — and invite to connect. I'll loop you into the call.
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  203. # [18:14] <@ravenzz> jensimmons hi, what do you mean by "the HTML element page design"?
  204. # [18:14] <@ravenzz> how to write proper HTML?
  205. # [18:14] <jensimmons> we are designing the page to display an HTML element
  206. # [18:14] <jensimmons> and designing the data structure for the HTML elements
  207. # [18:14] <jensimmons> meaning the documentation about HTML Elements
  208. # [18:15] <jensimmons> not "designing" the HTML for the website — but designing the content *about* HTML
  209. # [18:15] <jensimmons> a bit meta
  210. # [18:15] <jensimmons> I send around .pdfs last week
  211. # [18:15] <@Garbee> ravenzz, They are going to talk about making http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/html look better.
  212. # [18:16] <@ravenzz> oh I see
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  215. # [18:17] <@ravenzz> how is that different from the others? (css, javascript and so on)
  216. # [18:17] <@Garbee> Don't know. I don't see her email with PDF's in the ML. :P
  217. # [18:17] <jensimmons> It's different because the content is different
  218. # [18:18] <jensimmons> I can send the pdfs around again... or here — I'll put them on an server. Just a moment
  219. # [18:18] <@ravenzz> shouldn't each page be the same? no matter what the content is?
  220. # [18:18] <@ravenzz> cool
  221. # [18:18] <@Garbee> ugh, really gmail?
  222. # [18:18] <@Garbee> Filtering WPD stuff into spam is not cool.
  223. # [18:18] * Parts: inkvizitor68sl (~inky@master.qs.biz)
  224. # [18:18] <@ravenzz> haha
  225. # [18:19] <@ravenzz> labels!
  226. # [18:19] <@Garbee> They are.
  227. # [18:19] <@Garbee> Still no PDF's on designs.
  228. # [18:19] <@Garbee> But some of Max's JS content stuff was dumped into spam.
  229. # [18:20] <@Garbee> Just updated the filter to never send WPD tagged content to spam.
  230. # [18:20] <jensimmons> http://extras.jensimmons.com/webplatform/blockquote_example_page_v2.pdf
  231. # [18:20] <jensimmons> http://extras.jensimmons.com/webplatform/nav_example_page_v2.pdf
  232. # [18:22] * Quits: wilmoore (~wilmoore@vlandnat.mystrotv.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  233. # [18:23] <@ravenzz> jensimmons gotcha
  234. # [18:23] <@ravenzz> well it seems pretty obvious to me that the examples section should be moved after the ARIA Roles one
  235. # [18:24] * Quits: @julee_ (~julee@c-50-184-87-81.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: Julee got distracted by some doughnuts...)
  236. # [18:24] <@ravenzz> and maybe have a TLDR link to jump to the examples section
  237. # [18:25] <@Garbee> +1 to "related or similar" section, especially on nav with menu.
  238. # [18:25] <@ravenzz> quite often HTML examples are not necessary
  239. # [18:25] * Quits: greg_otoole (~gregoryot@130.203.137.69) (Quit: greg_otoole)
  240. # [18:25] <@ravenzz> Garbee yea
  241. # [18:26] <@Garbee> I'll catch up on this via the ML though. Don't have skype installed, much less have the inclination to do it right now since I am re-installing OS's until I find one I like.
  242. # [18:26] <jensimmons> I feel pretty strongly about examples being right up top, since that's what most people need. Advanced developers are looking for more advanced information, but I don't think that's most people..... but of course, these are the kinds of things we can talk about
  243. # [18:28] <@ravenzz> jensimmons true that, but still for the absolute beginner ther is the Beginners guide I guess
  244. # [18:30] <eliezerb> ravenzz, This is the other topic from the meeting, who is the target? Begginers, Advanced user and so on
  245. # [18:30] <eliezerb> for*
  246. # [18:30] <@ravenzz> eliezerb I see
  247. # [18:31] <@Garbee> I think it should focus first towards developers in the field who know what they are doing. Get them the info they need quickly so they can get back to work. :P
  248. # [18:31] <@Garbee> But placement of info like that... There is the Table of Contents if you need to jump around quickly.
  249. # [18:32] <jensimmons> of course, people — everyone — has to know what HTML is, what an element is, that most are written <foo>bar</foo>, etc before this page will be useful to them. Of course. THEY are the super beginners, and need to go learn more some place else (like the beginners guide, or a book, or a class, or a blog post) before this page will help them. For sure.
  250. # [18:32] <@ravenzz> the MDN page is pretty neat https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/nav
  251. # [18:33] <jensimmons> I'm thinking of the majority of developers I've known, who sort of kind of know this stuff, but haven't memorized it all yet, and need frequently to quickly look stuff up.
  252. # [18:33] <@ravenzz> yeah those kind of devs are not going to look at the examples :)
  253. # [18:34] * @Garbee thinks we could use some A/B user testing.
  254. # [18:34] <@ravenzz> but short and quick reference
  255. # [18:34] <@Garbee> We can assume what people would do or not do all day, data would tell us for sure though.
  256. # [18:34] <@ravenzz> like MDN does
  257. # [18:34] <jensimmons> What's the deal with <blockquote>? It used to be you weren't supposed to use <cite> at all, or were you / or something? There was some big debate, and they changed it, but wha? What am I supposed to do now? How am I supposed to mark up the name and source of the quote?
  258. # [18:34] <jensimmons> or
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  260. # [18:35] <jensimmons> Uh, I think I should have <p> inside the <blockquote>, but my tech lead is telling me that's wrong. I just need to look that up real quick to see what we should be doing — to prove him wrong.
  261. # [18:35] <@ravenzz> jensimmons anyway it is dinner time almost, hope I can make it for the meeting
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  263. # [18:37] <@Garbee> meh,let's go with examples on top initially and then if people complain (or until we do A/B testing of some kind) we can always switch the template up later.
  264. # [18:37] <@Garbee> Ordering of content isn't a major deal.
  265. # [18:37] <@Garbee> It is what content should be included and to what level of detail.
  266. # [18:39] <@Garbee> jensimmons, Make sure support for compat notes stays: http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/html/elements/p#Compatibility_notes
  267. # [18:39] <@Garbee> Pretty please.
  268. # [18:40] <@Garbee> I don't think there are many with the newer elements.
  269. # [18:40] <@Garbee> but for older browsers there are ofc the little quirks.
  270. # [18:40] <jensimmons> ah, I missed that.
  271. # [18:41] <jensimmons> Is that coming in with the Compatibility data from external websites?
  272. # [18:41] <@Garbee> Don't think so.
  273. # [18:41] <@Garbee> That is something someone added manually shortly after launch.
  274. # [18:41] <@Garbee> frozenice iirc.
  275. # [18:42] <@Garbee> phistuck too for the Android one from the history.
  276. # [18:42] <@Garbee> It isn't widely done on the elements. This is just an example page of how it should be done.
  277. # [18:45] <@Garbee> Wow, new MDN design is very nice.
  278. # [18:48] * ericduran|away is now known as ericduran
  279. # [18:48] <@ravenzz> yeah they launched yesterday
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  285. # [18:54] <jensimmons> ravenzz: find me in skype, 'jensimmons' and invite me to connect
  286. # [18:54] <jensimmons> 'add a contact' it's called
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The end :)