/irc-logs / freenode / #webplatform / 2014-01-31 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Jan 31 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #webplatform
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  15. # [01:59] <@renoirb> Anybody alive?
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  33. # [04:36] * renoirb changes topic to 'Database replication is broken, currently fixing http://status.webplatform.org/post/75114962384'
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  44. # [05:52] <@renoirb> Issue should be fixed http://status.webplatform.org/post/75114962384
  45. # [05:53] * renoirb changes topic to 'Conversations about the Web Platform | To participate http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Editors_Guide | System status http://status.webplatform.org'
  46. # [05:54] <@renoirb> Conversations about the Web Platform | To participate http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Editors_Guide
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  49. # [06:10] <@julee> Yah, renoirb!
  50. # [06:14] <@renoirb> HahA!
  51. # [06:15] <@renoirb> julee: when I wanted to do the todo from Max... I had that strange message.
  52. # [06:15] <@renoirb> Fixed.
  53. # [06:15] * @renoirb is going to sleep
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  55. # [06:25] <@julee> ah… Pleasant dreams, renoirb! Thanks!
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  117. # Session Close: Fri Jan 31 14:46:12 2014
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  119. # Session Start: Fri Jan 31 14:46:12 2014
  120. # Session Ident: #webplatform
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  124. # [14:52] * Topic is 'Conversations about the Web Platform | To participate http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Editors_Guide | System status http://status.webplatform.org'
  125. # [14:52] * Set by renoirb!~renoirb@h8.elcweb.ca on Fri Jan 31 05:53:49
  126. # [14:52] -ChanServ- [#microformats] Welcome to #microformats. Logs at http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/microformats
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  141. # Session Ident: #webplatform
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  145. # [15:50] * Topic is 'Conversations about the Web Platform | To participate http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Editors_Guide | System status http://status.webplatform.org'
  146. # [15:50] * Set by renoirb!~renoirb@h8.elcweb.ca on Fri Jan 31 05:53:49
  147. # [15:50] -ChanServ- [#microformats] Welcome to #microformats. Logs at http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/microformats
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  149. # [15:53] <@renoirb> Hey frozenice
  150. # [15:54] <@renoirb> alive?
  151. # [15:55] <@Garbee> renoirb: I hope not. I thought I took him out last night...
  152. # [15:55] <@Garbee> ;)
  153. # [15:56] <ptressel> renoirb, my irc client shows frozenice as idle
  154. # [15:56] <@renoirb> oh, yeah, I should look at this status information.
  155. # [15:56] <@Garbee> yea he is.
  156. # [15:57] <@Garbee> on IRCCloud now.
  157. # [15:57] <@Garbee> probably forgot to open it back up. :P
  158. # [15:57] <@renoirb> I never trust it. When I'm marked as Idle, my IRC bouncer would mail me anything that mentions my name.
  159. # [15:57] <@Garbee> Yea, they will.
  160. # [15:57] <@Garbee> Also this is an auto-away.
  161. # [15:57] <@renoirb> But, hey, Hi ptressel !!
  162. # [15:58] <@Garbee> So it really just means his client hasn't seen him for a few minutes.
  163. # [15:58] <ptressel> o/
  164. # [15:58] <@renoirb> I have a draft prepared to answer your question on the email you sent.
  165. # [15:58] <@renoirb> But since you are here :)
  166. # [15:59] <ptressel> :D
  167. # [15:59] <@renoirb> General meetings are happening every friday. It is to talk about what is coming and the status of things.
  168. # [15:59] <ptressel> Aha, so future too.
  169. # [16:00] <@renoirb> I thought of discussing at least with you and frozenice about it before that meeting, so i could report it later then.
  170. # [16:00] <@renoirb> later to them. I mean.
  171. # [16:00] <@frozenice> yes, I'm still at work :)
  172. # [16:00] <@frozenice> might be home in one hour or so
  173. # [16:00] <@renoirb> ok frozenice, let's figure out a viable time where we three can have a talk.
  174. # [16:01] <ptressel> What timezones are you-all in?
  175. # [16:01] <ptressel> (My sleep/wake cycle is fungible.)
  176. # [16:03] * renoirb changes topic to 'Conversations about WebPlatform Docs | Contribute with us! http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Editors_Guide'
  177. # [16:03] <@renoirb> i'm EST, based in frozen Montreal
  178. # [16:03] <ptressel> Brrrr....
  179. # [16:04] <ptressel> I'm in not-so-frozen Seattle / PST
  180. # [16:04] <@renoirb> My own time is also squishy. At least for meetings.
  181. # [16:05] <@Garbee> EST (Virginia)
  182. # [16:05] <@renoirb> So we are at ptressel 7:05 am renoirb 10:05 am frozenice 14:05 then?
  183. # [16:05] <@Garbee> but, my sleep schedule is out of wack.
  184. # [16:05] <@frozenice> Germany, 16:05 here
  185. # [16:06] <ptressel> Aha!
  186. # [16:06] <@renoirb> oh, gosh typo
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  189. # [16:06] <@renoirb> <quote voice="Nelson">Ha ah!</quote>
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  191. # [16:07] <ptressel> EST is winning...
  192. # [16:08] <@frozenice> afk again, till I'm home
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  194. # [16:08] <ptressel> Ok! I'll still be online then.
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  196. # [16:11] <@renoirb> ok frozenice
  197. # [16:11] <ptressel> Seems like the main question from the browser qualification test side is whether we need an aggregation tool (e.g. a modified version of mdn-compat-importer) to scrape the info from test results and insert it wherever it needs to go...
  198. # [16:12] <ptressel> ...or whether the test platform is going to have a REST interface, and (maybe) format the info for display itself (e.g. in an iframe).
  199. # [16:12] <@renoirb> Yeah ptressel. I think that around 12:00 would be ideal for three of us. Not too early for you to get off of bed, and him after work.
  200. # [16:12] <@renoirb> Are you aware of the project Test the web forward ptressel ?
  201. # [16:12] <ptressel> :D
  202. # [16:13] <ptressel> I already have one pull request, but have to revise it heavily.
  203. # [16:13] <ptressel> We just has a TTWF hackathon.
  204. # [16:13] <ptressel> s/has/had
  205. # [16:13] <@renoirb> oh! sweet!
  206. # [16:14] <@renoirb> So you know that the compat tables data will eventually be using this data then :)
  207. # [16:14] <ptressel> I landed in the JS group, where we were looking at ES6 changes that need tests, and missing ES5 tests.
  208. # [16:14] <ptressel> Yep.
  209. # [16:14] <ptressel> That's really what I was asking about
  210. # [16:14] <@renoirb> So, right on.
  211. # [16:14] <@renoirb> In the mean time we need to import data from existing source.
  212. # [16:14] <@renoirb> In a way that we can expose and use for our own tables.
  213. # [16:15] <ptressel> Ok, that answers the question I was just typing. :D
  214. # [16:15] <@renoirb> There are multiple concrete coments... that I see:
  215. # [16:16] <@renoirb> - Scraper from various sources [caniuse, mdn, ...]
  216. # [16:18] <@renoirb> - Data models (I see at least 2..3 data sets)
  217. # [16:19] <@renoirb> - Data storage (e.g. Couch DB.... could become the API since it's all JSON based and already HTTP friendly. The choice is yet to make)
  218. # [16:19] <@renoirb> - API proxy (i.e. frontend layer to expose where we map and abstract data storage)
  219. # [16:20] * @renoirb thinks of an actual implementation of an Hypermedia API
  220. # [16:21] <ptressel> How would it get integrated in the webplatform pages?
  221. # [16:21] <@renoirb> - Test runners (i.e. system that automates browser visits on tests pages, and publish data to the data storage)
  222. # [16:21] <ptressel> (Whoops, sorry, carry on.)
  223. # [16:23] <@renoirb> - Cruncher to compile the tests results into a Data model
  224. # [16:23] <@renoirb> sorry, i got that one wrong
  225. # [16:24] <@renoirb> - Cruncher to convert test results into a Data model usable for compatibility tables
  226. # [16:24] <@renoirb> ... The API will have a component where we will be able to ask things and the format we want
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  228. # [16:25] <@renoirb> e.g. GET /api?rel=compat&f=flexbox&hl=fr_CA
  229. # [16:26] <@renoirb> With header: Accept:text/html ... to return an HTML table
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  231. # [16:26] <@renoirb> With header: Accept:application/json ... to return a JSON object
  232. # [16:27] <ptressel> Or have the format in the query string.
  233. # [16:27] <@renoirb> ptressel: I think it is better not.
  234. # [16:28] <ptressel> Makes it simpler for apps to access..no?
  235. # [16:28] <@renoirb> HTTP has already a way to express it
  236. # [16:28] <ptressel> If everything is on the URL?
  237. # [16:28] <@renoirb> If you go with your web browser to that URL, it WILL be HTML.
  238. # [16:28] <@renoirb> Web Browser actually sends Accept: text/html by default.
  239. # [16:28] <ptressel> Hmm. ;-)
  240. # [16:28] <ptressel> Actually, not...
  241. # [16:29] <ptressel> I work on a web service that delivers info in many formats
  242. # [16:29] <ptressel> Specified on the url
  243. # [16:29] <@renoirb> there are many ways to make web services :)
  244. # [16:29] <@renoirb> That's why I'm talking about Hypermedia API
  245. # [16:29] <ptressel> xml, pdf, json, kml, wkt,...
  246. # [16:29] <@renoirb> I built SPOAP web services.
  247. # [16:30] <@renoirb> look at this video (coming)
  248. # [16:30] <ptressel> What I'm saying is, it does work without a mime type
  249. # [16:31] <ptressel> And it allows a human to type the url in their browser location box
  250. # [16:31] * Quits: @ravenzz (~raven@unaffiliated/ravenzz)
  251. # [16:31] <ptressel> So if I really want xml instead of html, I can get it without having to fire up curl or restclient.
  252. # [16:31] <@renoirb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEWTPFzt2-E&list=PLr4f8f5Q9NTmHQSN-SWv284OTbsncuRIc&index=8
  253. # [16:31] <@renoirb> That's the Hypermedia variant of REST that I am suggesting.
  254. # [16:32] <@renoirb> sure ptressel :)
  255. # [16:32] <ptressel> We're probably getting ahead of ourselves ;-)
  256. # [16:32] <@renoirb> I just want to point out which variant I think is best :)
  257. # [16:32] * Quits: imaginarysteve (~imaginary@174.46.125.167) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep)
  258. # [16:32] <@renoirb> also :D
  259. # [16:33] <ptressel> Aha! Lobbying in advance...
  260. # [16:33] <@renoirb> also :)
  261. # [16:36] <ptressel> A question from part-way through:
  262. # [16:36] <ptressel> I was talking to Doug at the TTWF event, and noted that most web frameworks / content mgmt systems store structured data in a database, and auto-generate pages from that. He said that the rest of the pages might be handled more as flat, directly-editable (wiki-like) text, not as fields an a database, updated via forms.
  263. # [16:37] <ptressel> I made the case for having the test results in a database, and auto-generating the tables in the web pages from that. Could be cached, and generated infrequently, e.g. only when changed.
  264. # [16:37] <ptressel> Hence the question about inserting the table in the (otherwise wikified) page.
  265. # [16:38] <@renoirb> uhm.
  266. # [16:39] <@renoirb> I think what I described (that is my own interpretation of what we might have to build) can support what you are saying.
  267. # [16:39] <ptressel> One option is to directly edit the (wiki) pages.
  268. # [16:39] <ptressel> That makes me really nervous.
  269. # [16:40] <@renoirb> But I think the issue is that we do not want to change wiki page version because of compatibility support changes. Would it not pollute page changes with revisions made by a bot
  270. # [16:40] <@renoirb> and easily mistakenly removed.
  271. # [16:40] <ptressel> Unless...the pages are split into separate editing regions, so humans can edit the rest without having their changes accidentally wiped.
  272. # [16:41] <ptressel> I would personally rather have the table generated separately, and not inserted in the wiki page.
  273. # [16:42] <ptressel> I suppose, though, that the pages might settle down to where there was less possibility of an editing conflict.
  274. # [16:42] * Joins: morficus (~morficus@108-205-132-58.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net)
  275. # [16:43] <ptressel> The caching alternative would be something like, run a periodic job to extract the test results into html, and link those from the wiki pages, so they appear embedded in the page.
  276. # [16:45] <@renoirb> I see compatibility data is yet an other set of data, like the content of the page you are viewing. So if you go to a page, the CMS will render page based on the content you are asking... the compat data will be queried and return the html chunk. No need to add it into the CMS
  277. # [16:46] <ptressel> Ok, I think we just said the same thing. :D
  278. # [16:46] <@renoirb> ok.
  279. # [16:46] <@renoirb> hey, can you Skype ?
  280. # [16:46] <@renoirb> could be faster :D
  281. # [16:46] <ptressel> I'm just suggesting caching rather than constructing on the fly.
  282. # [16:46] <@renoirb> indeed!
  283. # [16:46] <ptressel> Yep, but do we have enough for now? Cause the meeting is going to start rsn.
  284. # [16:47] * Joins: imaginarysteve (~imaginary@174.46.125.167)
  285. # [16:47] <@renoirb> meeting is at 12:00
  286. # [16:47] <@renoirb> EST
  287. # [16:47] <ptressel> Wait, what?
  288. # [16:47] * Quits: morficus (~morficus@108-205-132-58.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  289. # [16:47] <@renoirb> yes, we have enough
  290. # [16:47] <ptressel> I thought it was at 1600 UTC
  291. # [16:48] * Joins: shaunbaker (~shaunbake@2001:67c:90:7ff:a065:daa5:958:96a0)
  292. # [16:48] <ptressel> Am I off by one? or thinking of daylight time?
  293. # [16:49] * Joins: shaunbak_ (~shaunbake@brick-lane.lbi.co.uk)
  294. # [16:50] <ptressel> Anyhow, I'm supposed to be frantically working on something that's due Sunday, and which I should have started 2 weeks ago (control theory / robotics course).
  295. # [16:50] <@renoirb> i think its the daylight thing then :)
  296. # [16:51] * Quits: imaginarysteve (~imaginary@174.46.125.167) (Client Quit)
  297. # [16:52] <ptressel> Don't think so...so maybe the page w/ the meeting time is out of date?
  298. # [16:52] * Quits: shaunbaker (~shaunbake@2001:67c:90:7ff:a065:daa5:958:96a0) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  299. # [16:53] <ptressel> Heh, there are two different times: http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Community/Meetings/General
  300. # [16:53] <@renoirb> i can be wrong. I'm generally in those meetings that's why I say it is in 1h 7mn
  301. # [16:53] * Joins: eliezerb_2nd (~Eliezer@186.209.247.250)
  302. # [16:54] <ptressel> It says 1600 UTC under "web platform general status meeting" (which is what I thought this was for).
  303. # [16:54] * Quits: eliezerb (~Eliezer@186.209.247.250) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  304. # [16:54] * eliezerb_2nd is now known as eliezerb
  305. # [16:54] <ptressel> And just below that it says 1700 UTC for "telcon info"
  306. # [16:55] <ptressel> One or the other is wrong, as both of those have the same numbers for "ET" and "PT".
  307. # [16:55] <ptressel> (Which I didn't look at -- stopped at the UTC time)
  308. # [16:56] <ptressel> Ok, so the first time listed, 1600 UTC, is wrong.
  309. # [16:56] * Joins: imaginarysteve (~imaginary@174.46.125.167)
  310. # [16:56] <ptressel> Could edit that...
  311. # [16:56] <@renoirb> ill stay around and be there whenever other people are there :)
  312. # [16:58] <ptressel> Permission to edit that 1600 -> 1700?
  313. # [16:58] <eliezerb> hey renoirb
  314. # [16:59] <@renoirb> no worries ptressel :)
  315. # [16:59] <@renoirb> you can do
  316. # [16:59] <@renoirb> hi eliezerb
  317. # [16:59] <ptressel> kk
  318. # [16:59] <@renoirb> have you met ptressel, eliezerb ?
  319. # [16:59] <eliezerb> ptressel, hey! You're right... The meeting is 17 UTC
  320. # [16:59] <eliezerb> Not yet renoirb
  321. # [16:59] <eliezerb> Hey ptressel! Nice to meet you!
  322. # [17:00] <ptressel> Hi, eliezerb !
  323. # [17:00] <ptressel> Likewise!
  324. # [17:00] <eliezerb> I'm feeling that you lost some sleep hours ptressel
  325. # [17:01] <@renoirb> I think you are still in an heavy delivery date ptressel ?
  326. # [17:01] * Joins: LochHess (~LochHess@199.17.55.163)
  327. # [17:02] <ptressel> Right, still awake from last night. :P
  328. # [17:03] <@renoirb> that's annoying :/
  329. # [17:03] <@renoirb> hope you are going to get to sleep soon
  330. # [17:04] <eliezerb> ptressel, Are you the one who will work on compat tables?
  331. # [17:04] <ptressel> (It's homework & exam for a class, rather than a work task, but it's material I really really need. I work on an autonomous mobile robot project, and we have no PID controller. I made horrified noises, so now I get to do it.)
  332. # [17:04] <ptressel> I'm hoping to help...
  333. # [17:04] <eliezerb> cool!
  334. # [17:07] <@renoirb> University work ptressel ?
  335. # [17:07] <ptressel> No, just Coursera (Control of Mobile Robots, from Georgia Tech)
  336. # [17:08] <ptressel> Got out of school some while back. :D
  337. # [17:10] <LochHess> fancy
  338. # [17:10] <@renoirb> Oh, nice!
  339. # [17:10] * Quits: LochHess (~LochHess@199.17.55.163) (Remote host closed the connection)
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  344. # [17:13] <@renoirb> wb eliezerb laumars
  345. # [17:13] <@renoirb> oops, LochHess
  346. # [17:13] <eliezerb> It's going to rain here today renoirb
  347. # [17:13] * Joins: imaginarysteve (~imaginary@174.46.125.167)
  348. # [17:13] <LochHess> thanks, lol
  349. # [17:14] <LochHess> lucky
  350. # [17:14] <LochHess> I love rain.
  351. # [17:14] <eliezerb> My Internet goes away with the sun
  352. # [17:14] * Quits: imaginarysteve (~imaginary@174.46.125.167) (Client Quit)
  353. # [17:14] <ptressel> Vampire Internet, huh...
  354. # [17:15] <eliezerb> ptressel, More like Headless Knight
  355. # [17:15] <ptressel> Bwa ha ha
  356. # [17:15] <LochHess> No, his internet is Helios' chariot.
  357. # [17:15] <ptressel> Ah! Much more positive.
  358. # [17:15] <LochHess> Jealous. :P
  359. # [17:16] <ptressel> Of rain?
  360. # [17:16] <@renoirb> you lose internet with the sun eliezerb ?
  361. # [17:16] <@renoirb> how come?
  362. # [17:16] <eliezerb> renoirb, Yeah! I'm using my Wifi connection use Radio Waves
  363. # [17:16] <@renoirb> I can see with rain... and trees falling on the dish (if that happens)
  364. # [17:16] <eliezerb> renoirb, So the tower power comes from a Solar Panel
  365. # [17:16] <ptressel> Maybe the neighbors wake up and interfere...?
  366. # [17:16] <@renoirb> hopefully not!
  367. # [17:17] <@renoirb> ah!!!
  368. # [17:17] <@renoirb> True, you live quite far eliezerb
  369. # [17:17] <ptressel> Cable is a "party line" -- even DSL is to some extent.
  370. # [17:17] <eliezerb> yup :)
  371. # [17:17] <eliezerb> You already was in Brazil
  372. # [17:17] <eliezerb> You know what kind of live I take lol
  373. # [17:17] <@renoirb> I watched "City of God" again this week
  374. # [17:18] <@renoirb> For the 2nd time
  375. # [17:18] <LochHess> time to go play in my Matlab class...
  376. # [17:18] <LochHess> :P
  377. # [17:18] <eliezerb> Do you like brazilian movies?
  378. # [17:18] <@renoirb> Enjoy LochHess
  379. # [17:18] <@renoirb> I hate soap operas from Globo eliezerb
  380. # [17:19] <ptressel> Ah, Matlab!
  381. # [17:19] <eliezerb> Matlab is sweet
  382. # [17:19] <eliezerb> renoirb, You need check this out -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_Auto_da_Compadecida
  383. # [17:19] <ptressel> Lucky LochHess -- I had to take R classes. :P
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  403. # [17:51] <@renoirb> julee: I cannot flag pages there. I do not see option to flag them.
  404. # [17:51] <@renoirb> Some has placeholder test content though.
  405. # [17:53] <eliezerb> renoirb, Which page?
  406. # [17:54] <@renoirb> eliezerb: www.w3.org/mid/AC3BBB00-A4B8-4FEE-BE72-F6345A7A1F16@w3.org
  407. # [17:54] * Quits: LochHess (~LochHess@199.17.55.163) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  408. # [17:54] <eliezerb> Why can not you flag them?
  409. # [17:55] <@renoirb> because i see no "flag" button :)
  410. # [17:55] <eliezerb> Click at Edit Button
  411. # [17:55] <@renoirb> not all of them HAS flag
  412. # [17:55] * Joins: arnaudb (~arnaudb@2602:306:ce87:5700:9181:f1fd:5707:4578)
  413. # [17:55] <eliezerb> Ohh
  414. # [17:55] <@renoirb> see http://docs.webplatform.org/w/index.php?title=javascript&action=edit
  415. # [17:55] <eliezerb> Got one here
  416. # [17:55] <eliezerb> One sec
  417. # [17:56] <eliezerb> Sorry
  418. # [17:57] <eliezerb> renoirb, Add this to content {{Flags | High-level issues=Merge candidate}}
  419. # [17:57] <eliezerb> s/to/to the
  420. # [17:58] <@renoirb> Should I leave redirect when moving things for the import?
  421. # [17:58] <eliezerb> I don't think so, because we are going to have new pages in there
  422. # [17:58] <eliezerb> But a second opinion is good
  423. # [17:59] <@renoirb> When I am asked to move /wiki/javascript an option "move subpages" exist
  424. # [17:59] <@renoirb> we could just do that.
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  428. # [17:59] <@renoirb> ok. ill wait. i'm doing things because nobody said they would.
  429. # [17:59] <eliezerb> cool
  430. # [17:59] <@renoirb> but i'm not an expert in MW and I do not want to break anything
  431. # [18:00] <ptressel> \o/
  432. # [18:00] <@renoirb> /o/
  433. # [18:01] * Quits: mstalfoort (~manuchill@83.232.96.217) (Quit: kthxbai)
  434. # [18:03] <@julee> can anyone scribe?
  435. # [18:05] <@renoirb> scribenick: renoirb
  436. # [18:05] * Joins: imaginarysteve (~imaginary@174.46.125.167)
  437. # [18:06] <@renoirb> AGENDA: The JS Import
  438. # [18:06] <@renoirb> Max: A few pages are in the way
  439. # [18:06] <@renoirb> ... should move them out of the location. mass move them
  440. # [18:06] <@renoirb> ... some seems to be good enough: libraries and tutorials
  441. # [18:07] <@renoirb> ... but others could be selected manually
  442. # [18:07] <@renoirb> Julee: I can do that no problem
  443. # [18:07] <@renoirb> ... move to Meta namespace so we can use for merge work later down the road
  444. # [18:08] <@renoirb> Max: I do not want to pressure you Julee... but if you do it in within next 6 hours. I can do that today
  445. # [18:08] <@renoirb> Julee: yes i can totally do that
  446. # [18:10] <@renoirb> ... I will move the current 'javascript' with all the children (MW gives the option)... and create a new javascript blank page
  447. # [18:10] <eliezerb> \o/
  448. # [18:10] <@renoirb> Max: The import do not create a 'javascript' landing page
  449. # [18:10] <@renoirb> Julee: I'll create that top level page no problem
  450. # [18:11] <@renoirb> ACTION: Max to do the final import tonight
  451. # [18:11] <@renoirb> ack next
  452. # [18:11] <@renoirb> AGENDA: Blog posts from Max & Eliezer
  453. # [18:11] <@renoirb> Julee: I saw the google docs you started
  454. # [18:12] <@renoirb> Eliot: We'd like to cover the structure and more whats going on than the technical aspects
  455. # [18:13] <@renoirb> Max: i can write the blog post
  456. # [18:13] <@renoirb> ACTION: Max to write blog post draft
  457. # [18:13] <@renoirb> ack next
  458. # [18:14] <@renoirb> Eliot: Please make sure the tone is friendly/funny
  459. # [18:14] <@renoirb> ... we want to cheer up blog post tone
  460. # [18:14] <@renoirb> AGENDA: Preparing for Web Platform Wednesdays restart with JS content
  461. # [18:15] <@renoirb> Julee: We are going to focus on EcmaScript v @@
  462. # [18:17] <@renoirb> ... we are going to work from a spreadsheet instead of MW table
  463. # [18:17] <eliezerb> We could create a Open Badge
  464. # [18:17] <@renoirb> ... to use this to know where to work on and I'll make reports based on that
  465. # [18:18] <@renoirb> Julee: We had the firestarter and we should have a new badge
  466. # [18:18] <@renoirb> ACTION: To ask Doug if he wants to create a new badge
  467. # [18:18] <@renoirb> Eliot: We should make sure people to approve it
  468. # [18:18] * Joins: dobalina (~dobalina@gateway/tor-sasl/dobalina)
  469. # [18:19] <@renoirb> Julee: Anyone can create a badge. We send it to the list and in a General meeting, group can approve it.
  470. # [18:20] * Quits: ptressel (~chatzilla@174-31-240-180.tukw.qwest.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  471. # [18:20] <@renoirb> Julee: 1 Badge to create that badge for the JS project
  472. # [18:20] * Joins: jorgepedret (~jorgepedr@70-36-56-110.dyn.novuscom.net)
  473. # [18:20] <@renoirb> ... If somebody wants to create a badge
  474. # [18:21] <@renoirb> ... he just have to propose on the mailing list, and the group will approve it
  475. # [18:22] <@renoirb> AGENDA: Golden standard
  476. # [18:22] <@julee> previous agenda items were:
  477. # [18:22] * Joins: rasmusebbesen (~rasmusebb@109.202.139.50)
  478. # [18:22] <@julee> * JS Import
  479. # [18:22] <@julee> ** Final import
  480. # [18:22] <@julee> ** Blog posts from Max & Eliezer
  481. # [18:22] <@julee> * Preparing for Web Platform Wednesdays restart with JS content
  482. # [18:22] <@julee> ** Spreadsheet & landing page are done
  483. # [18:22] <@julee> ** We need another badge, no?
  484. # [18:22] <@julee> Now: Golden standard
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  487. # [18:23] <@renoirb> Julee: Is there somebody who wants to make a golden standard
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  489. # [18:26] <@renoirb> Eliot: Every page should review and be compared to a list that fits against the standard spec
  490. # [18:26] <@renoirb> Julee: I will have a spreadsheet all specs and their documents
  491. # [18:26] <@renoirb> ... On that, we need to have a page to use as an example (hence: Golden standard page)
  492. # [18:26] <@renoirb> ... that include examples
  493. # [18:26] <@renoirb> ... links and references
  494. # [18:28] <@renoirb> ... so we need that ONE VOLUNTEER to make that example page
  495. # [18:28] <@renoirb> ... and the community to review it
  496. # [18:29] <@renoirb> ACTION: Somebody to find a volunteer for that Golden page :)
  497. # [18:29] * Quits: shaunbak_ (~shaunbake@brick-lane.lbi.co.uk) (Remote host closed the connection)
  498. # [18:30] <@renoirb> Julee: Also we can accept people to volunteer on specific section of a content page
  499. # [18:30] * Joins: shaunbaker (~shaunbake@2001:67c:90:7ff:154f:675:6ac9:a6e9)
  500. # [18:30] <@renoirb> ... I am suggesting that we use the Array page as the candidate to be the page to use
  501. # [18:30] <@renoirb> renoirb: agrees with the Array page
  502. # [18:31] * Quits: jorgepedret (~jorgepedr@70-36-56-110.dyn.novuscom.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  503. # [18:31] <@renoirb> AGENDA: Schedule
  504. # [18:31] <@renoirb> JuleE: there is about 360 pages
  505. # [18:32] <@renoirb> ... with various levels of information depth
  506. # [18:32] <@renoirb> ... if we target about 50 pages a week. We are maybe looking at 6 months of work
  507. # [18:32] <@renoirb> ... lets see how many contributors we have.
  508. # [18:33] <@renoirb> ... we are going to have a few DocSprints coming in.
  509. # [18:33] <@renoirb> ... a lot can be done during those
  510. # [18:34] * Quits: shaunbaker (~shaunbake@2001:67c:90:7ff:154f:675:6ac9:a6e9) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  511. # [18:34] <@renoirb> Eliot: Due to the number of DocsSprints, we are looking at a 6 months as a baseline
  512. # [18:34] <@julee> AGENDA: Site stability
  513. # [18:35] <@julee> renoirb: last time, after the migration, load balancing was needed between server instances
  514. # [18:35] <@julee> … I'm in the process of moving around the VMs
  515. # [18:35] <@julee> … it's a slow process. Not to do during the wee.
  516. # [18:35] <@julee> … I'll do it on the weekends.
  517. # [18:35] <@julee> … A blocker is that 1 isn't being used at all.
  518. # [18:36] <@julee> … We'll use that 4th one for swapping.
  519. # [18:36] * Quits: arnaudb (~arnaudb@2602:306:ce87:5700:9181:f1fd:5707:4578) (Remote host closed the connection)
  520. # [18:36] <@julee> … I'm also fine tuning install, adjust apache servers between servers.
  521. # [18:37] <@julee> julee: how long to get to HA 99%
  522. # [18:37] <@julee> ?
  523. # [18:37] <@julee> renoirb: right now it works well.
  524. # [18:37] <@julee> … there's a lot of work to do.
  525. # [18:37] <@julee> … there's also compatibility table work so I can't work on this all the time.
  526. # [18:37] <@julee> … It's hard to have just one person on this.
  527. # [18:37] <@julee> … There's always something to do.
  528. # [18:38] <@julee> … I want to say next week,
  529. # [18:38] <@julee> … But let's say 1 month.
  530. # [18:38] <@julee> … I have to install tools to make sure.
  531. # [18:38] <@julee> … wish I could have more reassurance.
  532. # [18:38] <@julee> julee: if you install tools, you'll be able to predict better.
  533. # [18:39] <@julee> renoirb : I see in current tools what's happening
  534. # [18:39] <@julee> … But when you see 503s, I need to adjust things.
  535. # [18:39] <@julee> … Errors on servers are always going to be a 503 or whatever.
  536. # [18:42] * Joins: ckwalsh (~ckwalsh@facebook/platform/ckwalsh)
  537. # [18:42] <@julee> julee: predictability first, then HA for contributors
  538. # [18:42] <@julee> renoirb: I know this is important
  539. # [18:42] <@julee> … I am communicating
  540. # [18:42] <@julee> … I have a list I discuss with Doug
  541. # [18:42] <@julee> … We have systems that are giving us information
  542. # [18:42] <@julee> … We just need to make adjustments
  543. # [18:43] <@julee> … We don't have a crystal ball
  544. # [18:43] <@julee> … I need to work on it on the weekend
  545. # [18:43] <@julee> … And then monitor during the week
  546. # [18:43] <@julee> … I like that we make a blog post
  547. # [18:43] <@julee> … and we amplify it
  548. # [18:44] * Joins: morficus (~morficus@108-205-132-58.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net)
  549. # [18:44] <@julee> … want to capture the failure for auto communication
  550. # [18:44] <@julee> … and communicating when something happens
  551. # [18:44] <@julee> eliot: I'll help you with a blog post
  552. # [18:45] <@julee> … and we understand the complexity you were handled
  553. # [18:45] <@julee> renoirb: it's not bad, just a big system
  554. # [18:45] <@renoirb> ... and a lot of loose ends
  555. # [18:45] <@julee> julee: yes, we appreciate all that renoirb is doing for us
  556. # [18:46] <@julee> renoirb: I have a plan that I communicated with Doug
  557. # [18:46] <@julee> … compatibility tables I'm also working on
  558. # [18:46] * Joins: alrra (~alrra@unaffiliated/alrra)
  559. # [18:47] <@julee> Max: we have an internal test app, bot to load down the servers to test capacities
  560. # [18:47] <@julee> renoirb: that would be nice
  561. # [18:47] <@julee> … I have a system that does a lot of pages
  562. # [18:47] <@julee> … a shell script
  563. # [18:47] <@julee> … but a loadtesting suite, that would be great to get some help to build that.
  564. # [18:47] <@julee> Max: it draws out problems.
  565. # [18:47] * Joins: jorgepedret (~jorgepedr@70-36-56-110.dyn.novuscom.net)
  566. # [18:47] <@julee> renoirb: could you help?
  567. # [18:48] <@julee> Max: sure, it's a longterm project, but yes
  568. # [18:48] <jensimmons> for the landing page discussion: http://webplatform.jensimmons.com/design/
  569. # [18:48] * Quits: morficus (~morficus@108-205-132-58.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  570. # [18:50] <@renoirb> AGENDA: Compatibility Tables
  571. # [18:50] <@julee> AGENDA: compatibility tables
  572. # [18:50] * Quits: jorgepedret (~jorgepedr@70-36-56-110.dyn.novuscom.net) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  573. # [18:50] <@renoirb> Pat
  574. # [18:51] <@renoirb> Pat tressel
  575. # [18:51] * Joins: eliot (836bc090@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.192.144)
  576. # [18:51] <@julee> renoirb: I got in touch with Pat Tressel
  577. # [18:51] <@julee> we are free to work on the compat tables
  578. # [18:51] <@julee> … there had been some discussions about how to represent it
  579. # [18:51] * Joins: ptressel (~chatzilla@174-31-227-126.tukw.qwest.net)
  580. # [18:51] <@julee> … all we want is to import MDN & caniuse for now
  581. # [18:52] <@julee> … eventually, data will come from Testthewebforward
  582. # [18:52] <@julee> … Right now we have the code from Pat to build the HTML tables
  583. # [18:52] <@julee> … We're about to start this taskforce
  584. # [18:52] <@julee> … to use TestTWF
  585. # [18:53] <@julee> … Need to not cut off data that we have from MDN & caniuse
  586. # [18:53] <@julee> … ^ historical data
  587. # [18:53] <@julee> … Testtwf will be additive
  588. # [18:54] <@julee> … browser sniffing as well
  589. # [18:54] <@julee> There are a lot of components
  590. # [18:54] <ptressel> (Little correction: The code is from frozenice, rather than Pat.)
  591. # [18:54] <@julee> … Part of Testtwf project
  592. # [18:54] <eliot> Just a point of clarity: I believe the goal is to uset he W3C test suite (which TestTWF donates tests to)
  593. # [18:54] <@julee> Julee: can we get a plan?
  594. # [18:55] <eliot> q+
  595. # [18:57] <@julee> Julee: would like to have more visibility on this plan
  596. # [18:57] <@julee> Are we triangulating data
  597. # [18:57] <@julee> What taskforce?
  598. # [18:57] <@julee> What if Testtwf doesn't have test?
  599. # [18:57] <@julee> Are we no longer going to take the contributed data from others and triangulate the data?
  600. # [18:58] <@julee> renoirb: we'll do browser sniffing and push the results
  601. # [18:58] <@julee> Julee: I gues there's already a taskforce & designs, I look forward toseeing some of this.
  602. # [18:59] <@julee> Eliot: Testtwf : tests are donated
  603. # [18:59] <@julee> … the goal is to use this test suite to validate
  604. # [19:00] <@julee> … If no test, spec can't get to Recommendation phase without tests for each normative statement
  605. # [19:00] <@julee> … 6 figures for HTML5 of tests
  606. # [19:00] <@julee> … 10K tests are being donated!
  607. # [19:00] <@julee> … All specs need these test
  608. # [19:00] <@julee> … Ultimately, that's what we're going for
  609. # [19:00] * Quits: alrra (~alrra@unaffiliated/alrra) (Quit: Leaving)
  610. # [19:01] <@julee> … And then if we have sites that don't use normative tests, do we use that data?
  611. # [19:01] <@julee> … More like building a test harness than juggling folks who are creating these tests
  612. # [19:01] <@julee> jen: hope we still have a human element, here
  613. # [19:02] <@julee> eliot: Yes
  614. # [19:02] <@julee> … And what if spec doesn't have tests
  615. # [19:02] <@julee> jen: really is a resource : can I really use this right now
  616. # [19:03] <@julee> … test harness is great, but when data is aggregated and triangulated, it gives a human reality check
  617. # [19:03] <@julee> eliot: yes, but for the purpose of the compatibility table : it is about the data
  618. # [19:03] <@julee> jen: that's not how folks use caniuse
  619. # [19:03] <@julee> eliot: We're saying teh same thing
  620. # [19:04] <@julee> jen: but maybe we have different definitions of whether something works
  621. # [19:04] <@julee> … real word level of specs not working out
  622. # [19:05] <@julee> julee: The taskforce should be announced
  623. # [19:05] <@julee> … and plan should be published so folks can comment on it
  624. # [19:06] <@renoirb> scribenick: renoirb
  625. # [19:06] <jensimmons> http://webplatform.jensimmons.com/design/
  626. # [19:06] <@renoirb> Jen: If you go to ^
  627. # [19:06] <@renoirb> ... you see a prototype in progress
  628. # [19:07] <@renoirb> ... should get the idea of the model
  629. # [19:07] <@renoirb> ... could get the idea of the content hierarchy
  630. # [19:08] <@renoirb> ... do not look at the lower section
  631. # [19:09] * Joins: jorgepedret (~jorgepedr@64-46-23-103.dyn.novuscom.net)
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  633. # [19:09] <@renoirb> ... for the first page, doesn't matter if we have to update some of the content in the html directly
  634. # [19:09] <@renoirb> ... make sure that content such as next doc sprints
  635. # [19:10] * Quits: jorgepedret (~jorgepedr@64-46-23-103.dyn.novuscom.net) (Read error: No route to host)
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  637. # [19:11] <@renoirb> ... opinions
  638. # [19:11] <@renoirb> Eliott: I really like the direction you are going with this
  639. # [19:11] <@renoirb> Julee: this is more what we need
  640. # [19:12] * Quits: jonatasnona (~jonatasno@177.180.10.136) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  641. # [19:12] <@renoirb> Jen: I just wanted to give direction, we should definitely agree with the content
  642. # Session Close: Fri Jan 31 19:13:17 2014
  643. #
  644. # Session Start: Fri Jan 31 19:13:17 2014
  645. # Session Ident: #webplatform
  646. # [19:13] * Disconnected
  647. # [19:18] * Attempting to rejoin channel #webplatform
  648. # [19:18] * Rejoined channel #webplatform
  649. # [19:18] * Topic is 'Conversations about WebPlatform Docs | Contribute with us! http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Editors_Guide'
  650. # [19:18] * Set by renoirb!~renoirb@h8.elcweb.ca on Fri Jan 31 16:03:00
  651. # [19:18] -ChanServ- [#microformats] Welcome to #microformats. Logs at http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/microformats
  652. # [19:19] <eliot> jensimmons: Thanks. That's too real. "Rex, get down!"
  653. # [19:19] <@renoirb> I totally felt you were the hidden guy when you apeared jensimmons
  654. # [19:20] <@julee> renorib : you're the best! ;-)
  655. # [19:20] <ptressel> renoirb, Say...do the meeting notes get posted somewhere, or is the channel logged? My network connection decided to die just as the meeting was starting. :P
  656. # [19:20] <@frozenice> I see the meeting went well. :)
  657. # [19:21] <@frozenice> btw ptressel renoirb: I'm on leave/vacation next month, so a time slot for meetings should be easy to find :)
  658. # [19:21] <ptressel> Ah!
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  663. # [19:29] <ptressel> So...anyone know if the channel is logged, or if the meeting notes get scraped to somewhere?
  664. # [19:30] <@frozenice> julee or so will post the notes
  665. # [19:33] <ptressel> Ok, thanks! At the point where I got re-connected, the discussion was on the browser compatibility import...
  666. # [19:34] <@frozenice> bad timing
  667. # [19:34] <@frozenice> or good
  668. # [19:34] <@frozenice> the raw notes are now posted btw
  669. # [19:34] <@julee> http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Community/Meetings/General/2014/0131_raw_mtg_notes
  670. # [19:35] <ptressel> Thanks!!
  671. # [19:35] <ptressel> frozenice, Bad timing, as I was *also* in the middle of a payment on Amazon.
  672. # [19:36] <@frozenice> heh
  673. # [19:37] <ptressel> Also backup. Had to quit out of backup and restart both my laptop and dsl modem.
  674. # [19:37] <ptressel> I think my isp is yanking my dhcp lease too frequently...or something. Really need to start using wireshark...
  675. # [19:56] <@renoirb> Hey ptressel no worries. I restored the logger yesterday.
  676. # [19:57] <@renoirb> ... but the thing we use to show it has not been reinstalled.
  677. # [19:57] <@renoirb> ... it was a low hanging fruit that I worked on yesterday.
  678. # [19:57] <@renoirb> Say hi to wp-logger ptressel
  679. # [20:01] <ptressel> Aha!
  680. # [20:02] <ptressel> wp-logger hi
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  682. # [20:02] <ptressel> Ok, not a responder. ;-)
  683. # [20:06] * Quits: jensimmons (~jensimmon@drupal.org/user/140882/view) (Quit: jensimmons)
  684. # [20:06] <@renoirb> ptressel: The thing is a python script that push to a database table. that is all.
  685. # [20:06] * Quits: jonatasnona (~jonatasno@179.234.216.111) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  686. # [20:06] <@frozenice> hmm, I need to finish irc-apparatus...
  687. # [20:07] <ptressel> Ah! We (sahanafoundation.org) run Sean Palmer's loggy, which is Python.
  688. # [20:07] <@renoirb> I'd like to push to a dedicated ElasticSearch index someday
  689. # [20:07] <@renoirb> Then create a small Kibana dashboard
  690. # [20:07] <@renoirb> for it
  691. # [20:08] <@frozenice> how hard would it be to setup such an index?
  692. # [20:08] <@renoirb> curl POST with right parameters...
  693. # [20:08] <@renoirb> ... and have that ES cluster.
  694. # [20:08] <@renoirb> in my todo
  695. # [20:08] <ptressel> What's the index for?
  696. # [20:09] <@renoirb> ElasticSearch ("ES") can have more than one index.
  697. # [20:09] <@frozenice> would be a straight-forward plugin for irc-apparatus :)
  698. # [20:09] <@renoirb> We will eventually have:
  699. # [20:09] <@renoirb> - LogStash
  700. # [20:09] <@renoirb> - IRC (an idea)
  701. # [20:09] <ptressel> But...what goes in the index?
  702. # [20:09] <@frozenice> this
  703. # [20:09] <@renoirb> - Whatever else we might want to use a search engine for
  704. # [20:10] <ptressel> Oh, you mean index in the sense of *lucene*.
  705. # [20:10] <@renoirb> yes!
  706. # [20:10] <ptressel> Er...why not lucene?
  707. # [20:10] <ptressel> With Solr?
  708. # [20:10] <@frozenice> ES is based on lucene
  709. # [20:10] <@renoirb> ElasticSearch is a service container (similar to Solr) that stores in Lucene format (but scales better)
  710. # [20:10] <ptressel> Sort-of.
  711. # [20:11] <ptressel> As in the author also started Lucene, IIRC.
  712. # [20:11] <@renoirb> It is the same, but the way ES is built, you can have more than one server to store all the indexes.
  713. # [20:11] <@renoirb> I have to go.
  714. # [20:11] <@renoirb> BRB
  715. # [20:11] <ptressel> But ES is rewritten to support higher bandwidth
  716. # [20:11] <ptressel> Right
  717. # [20:11] <ptressel> o/
  718. # [20:12] <@renoirb> we have ES at the moment
  719. # [20:12] <ptressel> Ok, that's an argument in favor of using it. :D
  720. # [20:12] <@renoirb> see annotation.webplatform.org:5000/stream
  721. # [20:12] <@renoirb> http://annotation.webplatform.org:5000/stream
  722. # [20:13] <@renoirb> and http://annotation.webplatform.org:5000/
  723. # [20:13] <@renoirb> data is stored in ES
  724. # [20:13] <@renoirb> see the hypothes.is project
  725. # [20:13] <@renoirb> http://
  726. # [20:13] <@renoirb> got to go now
  727. # [20:13] <ptressel> Bye! (mee too)
  728. # [20:14] <@frozenice> bb
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  730. # [20:14] <ptressel> bbl...
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  751. # [21:12] <@julee> renoirb : will you be around for the import @ 6pm est?
  752. # [21:12] <@julee> shepazu : will you be on line?
  753. # [21:12] <@renoirb> yes, i will for sure!
  754. # [21:12] <@julee> yeah! thanks much!
  755. # [21:14] <@renoirb> Sure, I had this in mind to say during the meeting. But got too busy scribingç
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  785. # Session Close: Sat Feb 01 00:00:00 2014

The end :)