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- # Session Start: Fri Jan 31 00:00:00 2014
- # Session Ident: #webplatform
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- # [01:59] <@renoirb> Anybody alive?
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- # [04:36] * renoirb changes topic to 'Database replication is broken, currently fixing http://status.webplatform.org/post/75114962384'
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- # [05:52] <@renoirb> Issue should be fixed http://status.webplatform.org/post/75114962384
- # [05:53] * renoirb changes topic to 'Conversations about the Web Platform | To participate http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Editors_Guide | System status http://status.webplatform.org'
- # [05:54] <@renoirb> Conversations about the Web Platform | To participate http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Editors_Guide
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- # [06:10] <@julee> Yah, renoirb!
- # [06:14] <@renoirb> HahA!
- # [06:15] <@renoirb> julee: when I wanted to do the todo from Max... I had that strange message.
- # [06:15] <@renoirb> Fixed.
- # [06:15] * @renoirb is going to sleep
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- # [06:25] <@julee> ah… Pleasant dreams, renoirb! Thanks!
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- # Session Close: Fri Jan 31 14:46:12 2014
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- # Session Start: Fri Jan 31 14:46:12 2014
- # Session Ident: #webplatform
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- # [14:52] * Topic is 'Conversations about the Web Platform | To participate http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Editors_Guide | System status http://status.webplatform.org'
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- # [14:52] -ChanServ- [#microformats] Welcome to #microformats. Logs at http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/microformats
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- # Session Close: Fri Jan 31 15:42:24 2014
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- # Session Start: Fri Jan 31 15:42:24 2014
- # Session Ident: #webplatform
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- # [15:50] * Topic is 'Conversations about the Web Platform | To participate http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Editors_Guide | System status http://status.webplatform.org'
- # [15:50] * Set by renoirb!~renoirb@h8.elcweb.ca on Fri Jan 31 05:53:49
- # [15:50] -ChanServ- [#microformats] Welcome to #microformats. Logs at http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/microformats
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- # [15:53] <@renoirb> Hey frozenice
- # [15:54] <@renoirb> alive?
- # [15:55] <@Garbee> renoirb: I hope not. I thought I took him out last night...
- # [15:55] <@Garbee> ;)
- # [15:56] <ptressel> renoirb, my irc client shows frozenice as idle
- # [15:56] <@renoirb> oh, yeah, I should look at this status information.
- # [15:56] <@Garbee> yea he is.
- # [15:57] <@Garbee> on IRCCloud now.
- # [15:57] <@Garbee> probably forgot to open it back up. :P
- # [15:57] <@renoirb> I never trust it. When I'm marked as Idle, my IRC bouncer would mail me anything that mentions my name.
- # [15:57] <@Garbee> Yea, they will.
- # [15:57] <@Garbee> Also this is an auto-away.
- # [15:57] <@renoirb> But, hey, Hi ptressel !!
- # [15:58] <@Garbee> So it really just means his client hasn't seen him for a few minutes.
- # [15:58] <ptressel> o/
- # [15:58] <@renoirb> I have a draft prepared to answer your question on the email you sent.
- # [15:58] <@renoirb> But since you are here :)
- # [15:59] <ptressel> :D
- # [15:59] <@renoirb> General meetings are happening every friday. It is to talk about what is coming and the status of things.
- # [15:59] <ptressel> Aha, so future too.
- # [16:00] <@renoirb> I thought of discussing at least with you and frozenice about it before that meeting, so i could report it later then.
- # [16:00] <@renoirb> later to them. I mean.
- # [16:00] <@frozenice> yes, I'm still at work :)
- # [16:00] <@frozenice> might be home in one hour or so
- # [16:00] <@renoirb> ok frozenice, let's figure out a viable time where we three can have a talk.
- # [16:01] <ptressel> What timezones are you-all in?
- # [16:01] <ptressel> (My sleep/wake cycle is fungible.)
- # [16:03] * renoirb changes topic to 'Conversations about WebPlatform Docs | Contribute with us! http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Editors_Guide'
- # [16:03] <@renoirb> i'm EST, based in frozen Montreal
- # [16:03] <ptressel> Brrrr....
- # [16:04] <ptressel> I'm in not-so-frozen Seattle / PST
- # [16:04] <@renoirb> My own time is also squishy. At least for meetings.
- # [16:05] <@Garbee> EST (Virginia)
- # [16:05] <@renoirb> So we are at ptressel 7:05 am renoirb 10:05 am frozenice 14:05 then?
- # [16:05] <@Garbee> but, my sleep schedule is out of wack.
- # [16:05] <@frozenice> Germany, 16:05 here
- # [16:06] <ptressel> Aha!
- # [16:06] <@renoirb> oh, gosh typo
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- # [16:06] <@renoirb> <quote voice="Nelson">Ha ah!</quote>
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- # [16:07] <ptressel> EST is winning...
- # [16:08] <@frozenice> afk again, till I'm home
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- # [16:08] <ptressel> Ok! I'll still be online then.
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- # [16:11] <@renoirb> ok frozenice
- # [16:11] <ptressel> Seems like the main question from the browser qualification test side is whether we need an aggregation tool (e.g. a modified version of mdn-compat-importer) to scrape the info from test results and insert it wherever it needs to go...
- # [16:12] <ptressel> ...or whether the test platform is going to have a REST interface, and (maybe) format the info for display itself (e.g. in an iframe).
- # [16:12] <@renoirb> Yeah ptressel. I think that around 12:00 would be ideal for three of us. Not too early for you to get off of bed, and him after work.
- # [16:12] <@renoirb> Are you aware of the project Test the web forward ptressel ?
- # [16:12] <ptressel> :D
- # [16:13] <ptressel> I already have one pull request, but have to revise it heavily.
- # [16:13] <ptressel> We just has a TTWF hackathon.
- # [16:13] <ptressel> s/has/had
- # [16:13] <@renoirb> oh! sweet!
- # [16:14] <@renoirb> So you know that the compat tables data will eventually be using this data then :)
- # [16:14] <ptressel> I landed in the JS group, where we were looking at ES6 changes that need tests, and missing ES5 tests.
- # [16:14] <ptressel> Yep.
- # [16:14] <ptressel> That's really what I was asking about
- # [16:14] <@renoirb> So, right on.
- # [16:14] <@renoirb> In the mean time we need to import data from existing source.
- # [16:14] <@renoirb> In a way that we can expose and use for our own tables.
- # [16:15] <ptressel> Ok, that answers the question I was just typing. :D
- # [16:15] <@renoirb> There are multiple concrete coments... that I see:
- # [16:16] <@renoirb> - Scraper from various sources [caniuse, mdn, ...]
- # [16:18] <@renoirb> - Data models (I see at least 2..3 data sets)
- # [16:19] <@renoirb> - Data storage (e.g. Couch DB.... could become the API since it's all JSON based and already HTTP friendly. The choice is yet to make)
- # [16:19] <@renoirb> - API proxy (i.e. frontend layer to expose where we map and abstract data storage)
- # [16:20] * @renoirb thinks of an actual implementation of an Hypermedia API
- # [16:21] <ptressel> How would it get integrated in the webplatform pages?
- # [16:21] <@renoirb> - Test runners (i.e. system that automates browser visits on tests pages, and publish data to the data storage)
- # [16:21] <ptressel> (Whoops, sorry, carry on.)
- # [16:23] <@renoirb> - Cruncher to compile the tests results into a Data model
- # [16:23] <@renoirb> sorry, i got that one wrong
- # [16:24] <@renoirb> - Cruncher to convert test results into a Data model usable for compatibility tables
- # [16:24] <@renoirb> ... The API will have a component where we will be able to ask things and the format we want
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- # [16:25] <@renoirb> e.g. GET /api?rel=compat&f=flexbox&hl=fr_CA
- # [16:26] <@renoirb> With header: Accept:text/html ... to return an HTML table
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- # [16:26] <@renoirb> With header: Accept:application/json ... to return a JSON object
- # [16:27] <ptressel> Or have the format in the query string.
- # [16:27] <@renoirb> ptressel: I think it is better not.
- # [16:28] <ptressel> Makes it simpler for apps to access..no?
- # [16:28] <@renoirb> HTTP has already a way to express it
- # [16:28] <ptressel> If everything is on the URL?
- # [16:28] <@renoirb> If you go with your web browser to that URL, it WILL be HTML.
- # [16:28] <@renoirb> Web Browser actually sends Accept: text/html by default.
- # [16:28] <ptressel> Hmm. ;-)
- # [16:28] <ptressel> Actually, not...
- # [16:29] <ptressel> I work on a web service that delivers info in many formats
- # [16:29] <ptressel> Specified on the url
- # [16:29] <@renoirb> there are many ways to make web services :)
- # [16:29] <@renoirb> That's why I'm talking about Hypermedia API
- # [16:29] <ptressel> xml, pdf, json, kml, wkt,...
- # [16:29] <@renoirb> I built SPOAP web services.
- # [16:30] <@renoirb> look at this video (coming)
- # [16:30] <ptressel> What I'm saying is, it does work without a mime type
- # [16:31] <ptressel> And it allows a human to type the url in their browser location box
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- # [16:31] <ptressel> So if I really want xml instead of html, I can get it without having to fire up curl or restclient.
- # [16:31] <@renoirb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEWTPFzt2-E&list=PLr4f8f5Q9NTmHQSN-SWv284OTbsncuRIc&index=8
- # [16:31] <@renoirb> That's the Hypermedia variant of REST that I am suggesting.
- # [16:32] <@renoirb> sure ptressel :)
- # [16:32] <ptressel> We're probably getting ahead of ourselves ;-)
- # [16:32] <@renoirb> I just want to point out which variant I think is best :)
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- # [16:32] <@renoirb> also :D
- # [16:33] <ptressel> Aha! Lobbying in advance...
- # [16:33] <@renoirb> also :)
- # [16:36] <ptressel> A question from part-way through:
- # [16:36] <ptressel> I was talking to Doug at the TTWF event, and noted that most web frameworks / content mgmt systems store structured data in a database, and auto-generate pages from that. He said that the rest of the pages might be handled more as flat, directly-editable (wiki-like) text, not as fields an a database, updated via forms.
- # [16:37] <ptressel> I made the case for having the test results in a database, and auto-generating the tables in the web pages from that. Could be cached, and generated infrequently, e.g. only when changed.
- # [16:37] <ptressel> Hence the question about inserting the table in the (otherwise wikified) page.
- # [16:38] <@renoirb> uhm.
- # [16:39] <@renoirb> I think what I described (that is my own interpretation of what we might have to build) can support what you are saying.
- # [16:39] <ptressel> One option is to directly edit the (wiki) pages.
- # [16:39] <ptressel> That makes me really nervous.
- # [16:40] <@renoirb> But I think the issue is that we do not want to change wiki page version because of compatibility support changes. Would it not pollute page changes with revisions made by a bot
- # [16:40] <@renoirb> and easily mistakenly removed.
- # [16:40] <ptressel> Unless...the pages are split into separate editing regions, so humans can edit the rest without having their changes accidentally wiped.
- # [16:41] <ptressel> I would personally rather have the table generated separately, and not inserted in the wiki page.
- # [16:42] <ptressel> I suppose, though, that the pages might settle down to where there was less possibility of an editing conflict.
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- # [16:43] <ptressel> The caching alternative would be something like, run a periodic job to extract the test results into html, and link those from the wiki pages, so they appear embedded in the page.
- # [16:45] <@renoirb> I see compatibility data is yet an other set of data, like the content of the page you are viewing. So if you go to a page, the CMS will render page based on the content you are asking... the compat data will be queried and return the html chunk. No need to add it into the CMS
- # [16:46] <ptressel> Ok, I think we just said the same thing. :D
- # [16:46] <@renoirb> ok.
- # [16:46] <@renoirb> hey, can you Skype ?
- # [16:46] <@renoirb> could be faster :D
- # [16:46] <ptressel> I'm just suggesting caching rather than constructing on the fly.
- # [16:46] <@renoirb> indeed!
- # [16:46] <ptressel> Yep, but do we have enough for now? Cause the meeting is going to start rsn.
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- # [16:47] <@renoirb> meeting is at 12:00
- # [16:47] <@renoirb> EST
- # [16:47] <ptressel> Wait, what?
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- # [16:47] <@renoirb> yes, we have enough
- # [16:47] <ptressel> I thought it was at 1600 UTC
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- # [16:48] <ptressel> Am I off by one? or thinking of daylight time?
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- # [16:50] <ptressel> Anyhow, I'm supposed to be frantically working on something that's due Sunday, and which I should have started 2 weeks ago (control theory / robotics course).
- # [16:50] <@renoirb> i think its the daylight thing then :)
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- # [16:52] <ptressel> Don't think so...so maybe the page w/ the meeting time is out of date?
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- # [16:53] <ptressel> Heh, there are two different times: http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Community/Meetings/General
- # [16:53] <@renoirb> i can be wrong. I'm generally in those meetings that's why I say it is in 1h 7mn
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- # [16:54] <ptressel> It says 1600 UTC under "web platform general status meeting" (which is what I thought this was for).
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- # [16:54] <ptressel> And just below that it says 1700 UTC for "telcon info"
- # [16:55] <ptressel> One or the other is wrong, as both of those have the same numbers for "ET" and "PT".
- # [16:55] <ptressel> (Which I didn't look at -- stopped at the UTC time)
- # [16:56] <ptressel> Ok, so the first time listed, 1600 UTC, is wrong.
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- # [16:56] <ptressel> Could edit that...
- # [16:56] <@renoirb> ill stay around and be there whenever other people are there :)
- # [16:58] <ptressel> Permission to edit that 1600 -> 1700?
- # [16:58] <eliezerb> hey renoirb
- # [16:59] <@renoirb> no worries ptressel :)
- # [16:59] <@renoirb> you can do
- # [16:59] <@renoirb> hi eliezerb
- # [16:59] <ptressel> kk
- # [16:59] <@renoirb> have you met ptressel, eliezerb ?
- # [16:59] <eliezerb> ptressel, hey! You're right... The meeting is 17 UTC
- # [16:59] <eliezerb> Not yet renoirb
- # [16:59] <eliezerb> Hey ptressel! Nice to meet you!
- # [17:00] <ptressel> Hi, eliezerb !
- # [17:00] <ptressel> Likewise!
- # [17:00] <eliezerb> I'm feeling that you lost some sleep hours ptressel
- # [17:01] <@renoirb> I think you are still in an heavy delivery date ptressel ?
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- # [17:02] <ptressel> Right, still awake from last night. :P
- # [17:03] <@renoirb> that's annoying :/
- # [17:03] <@renoirb> hope you are going to get to sleep soon
- # [17:04] <eliezerb> ptressel, Are you the one who will work on compat tables?
- # [17:04] <ptressel> (It's homework & exam for a class, rather than a work task, but it's material I really really need. I work on an autonomous mobile robot project, and we have no PID controller. I made horrified noises, so now I get to do it.)
- # [17:04] <ptressel> I'm hoping to help...
- # [17:04] <eliezerb> cool!
- # [17:07] <@renoirb> University work ptressel ?
- # [17:07] <ptressel> No, just Coursera (Control of Mobile Robots, from Georgia Tech)
- # [17:08] <ptressel> Got out of school some while back. :D
- # [17:10] <LochHess> fancy
- # [17:10] <@renoirb> Oh, nice!
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- # [17:13] <@renoirb> wb eliezerb laumars
- # [17:13] <@renoirb> oops, LochHess
- # [17:13] <eliezerb> It's going to rain here today renoirb
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- # [17:13] <LochHess> thanks, lol
- # [17:14] <LochHess> lucky
- # [17:14] <LochHess> I love rain.
- # [17:14] <eliezerb> My Internet goes away with the sun
- # [17:14] * Quits: imaginarysteve (~imaginary@174.46.125.167) (Client Quit)
- # [17:14] <ptressel> Vampire Internet, huh...
- # [17:15] <eliezerb> ptressel, More like Headless Knight
- # [17:15] <ptressel> Bwa ha ha
- # [17:15] <LochHess> No, his internet is Helios' chariot.
- # [17:15] <ptressel> Ah! Much more positive.
- # [17:15] <LochHess> Jealous. :P
- # [17:16] <ptressel> Of rain?
- # [17:16] <@renoirb> you lose internet with the sun eliezerb ?
- # [17:16] <@renoirb> how come?
- # [17:16] <eliezerb> renoirb, Yeah! I'm using my Wifi connection use Radio Waves
- # [17:16] <@renoirb> I can see with rain... and trees falling on the dish (if that happens)
- # [17:16] <eliezerb> renoirb, So the tower power comes from a Solar Panel
- # [17:16] <ptressel> Maybe the neighbors wake up and interfere...?
- # [17:16] <@renoirb> hopefully not!
- # [17:17] <@renoirb> ah!!!
- # [17:17] <@renoirb> True, you live quite far eliezerb
- # [17:17] <ptressel> Cable is a "party line" -- even DSL is to some extent.
- # [17:17] <eliezerb> yup :)
- # [17:17] <eliezerb> You already was in Brazil
- # [17:17] <eliezerb> You know what kind of live I take lol
- # [17:17] <@renoirb> I watched "City of God" again this week
- # [17:18] <@renoirb> For the 2nd time
- # [17:18] <LochHess> time to go play in my Matlab class...
- # [17:18] <LochHess> :P
- # [17:18] <eliezerb> Do you like brazilian movies?
- # [17:18] <@renoirb> Enjoy LochHess
- # [17:18] <@renoirb> I hate soap operas from Globo eliezerb
- # [17:19] <ptressel> Ah, Matlab!
- # [17:19] <eliezerb> Matlab is sweet
- # [17:19] <eliezerb> renoirb, You need check this out -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_Auto_da_Compadecida
- # [17:19] <ptressel> Lucky LochHess -- I had to take R classes. :P
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- # [17:51] <@renoirb> julee: I cannot flag pages there. I do not see option to flag them.
- # [17:51] <@renoirb> Some has placeholder test content though.
- # [17:53] <eliezerb> renoirb, Which page?
- # [17:54] <@renoirb> eliezerb: www.w3.org/mid/AC3BBB00-A4B8-4FEE-BE72-F6345A7A1F16@w3.org
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- # [17:54] <eliezerb> Why can not you flag them?
- # [17:55] <@renoirb> because i see no "flag" button :)
- # [17:55] <eliezerb> Click at Edit Button
- # [17:55] <@renoirb> not all of them HAS flag
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- # [17:55] <eliezerb> Ohh
- # [17:55] <@renoirb> see http://docs.webplatform.org/w/index.php?title=javascript&action=edit
- # [17:55] <eliezerb> Got one here
- # [17:55] <eliezerb> One sec
- # [17:56] <eliezerb> Sorry
- # [17:57] <eliezerb> renoirb, Add this to content {{Flags | High-level issues=Merge candidate}}
- # [17:57] <eliezerb> s/to/to the
- # [17:58] <@renoirb> Should I leave redirect when moving things for the import?
- # [17:58] <eliezerb> I don't think so, because we are going to have new pages in there
- # [17:58] <eliezerb> But a second opinion is good
- # [17:59] <@renoirb> When I am asked to move /wiki/javascript an option "move subpages" exist
- # [17:59] <@renoirb> we could just do that.
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- # [17:59] <@renoirb> ok. ill wait. i'm doing things because nobody said they would.
- # [17:59] <eliezerb> cool
- # [17:59] <@renoirb> but i'm not an expert in MW and I do not want to break anything
- # [18:00] <ptressel> \o/
- # [18:00] <@renoirb> /o/
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- # [18:03] <@julee> can anyone scribe?
- # [18:05] <@renoirb> scribenick: renoirb
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- # [18:06] <@renoirb> AGENDA: The JS Import
- # [18:06] <@renoirb> Max: A few pages are in the way
- # [18:06] <@renoirb> ... should move them out of the location. mass move them
- # [18:06] <@renoirb> ... some seems to be good enough: libraries and tutorials
- # [18:07] <@renoirb> ... but others could be selected manually
- # [18:07] <@renoirb> Julee: I can do that no problem
- # [18:07] <@renoirb> ... move to Meta namespace so we can use for merge work later down the road
- # [18:08] <@renoirb> Max: I do not want to pressure you Julee... but if you do it in within next 6 hours. I can do that today
- # [18:08] <@renoirb> Julee: yes i can totally do that
- # [18:10] <@renoirb> ... I will move the current 'javascript' with all the children (MW gives the option)... and create a new javascript blank page
- # [18:10] <eliezerb> \o/
- # [18:10] <@renoirb> Max: The import do not create a 'javascript' landing page
- # [18:10] <@renoirb> Julee: I'll create that top level page no problem
- # [18:11] <@renoirb> ACTION: Max to do the final import tonight
- # [18:11] <@renoirb> ack next
- # [18:11] <@renoirb> AGENDA: Blog posts from Max & Eliezer
- # [18:11] <@renoirb> Julee: I saw the google docs you started
- # [18:12] <@renoirb> Eliot: We'd like to cover the structure and more whats going on than the technical aspects
- # [18:13] <@renoirb> Max: i can write the blog post
- # [18:13] <@renoirb> ACTION: Max to write blog post draft
- # [18:13] <@renoirb> ack next
- # [18:14] <@renoirb> Eliot: Please make sure the tone is friendly/funny
- # [18:14] <@renoirb> ... we want to cheer up blog post tone
- # [18:14] <@renoirb> AGENDA: Preparing for Web Platform Wednesdays restart with JS content
- # [18:15] <@renoirb> Julee: We are going to focus on EcmaScript v @@
- # [18:17] <@renoirb> ... we are going to work from a spreadsheet instead of MW table
- # [18:17] <eliezerb> We could create a Open Badge
- # [18:17] <@renoirb> ... to use this to know where to work on and I'll make reports based on that
- # [18:18] <@renoirb> Julee: We had the firestarter and we should have a new badge
- # [18:18] <@renoirb> ACTION: To ask Doug if he wants to create a new badge
- # [18:18] <@renoirb> Eliot: We should make sure people to approve it
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- # [18:19] <@renoirb> Julee: Anyone can create a badge. We send it to the list and in a General meeting, group can approve it.
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- # [18:20] <@renoirb> Julee: 1 Badge to create that badge for the JS project
- # [18:20] * Joins: jorgepedret (~jorgepedr@70-36-56-110.dyn.novuscom.net)
- # [18:20] <@renoirb> ... If somebody wants to create a badge
- # [18:21] <@renoirb> ... he just have to propose on the mailing list, and the group will approve it
- # [18:22] <@renoirb> AGENDA: Golden standard
- # [18:22] <@julee> previous agenda items were:
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- # [18:22] <@julee> * JS Import
- # [18:22] <@julee> ** Final import
- # [18:22] <@julee> ** Blog posts from Max & Eliezer
- # [18:22] <@julee> * Preparing for Web Platform Wednesdays restart with JS content
- # [18:22] <@julee> ** Spreadsheet & landing page are done
- # [18:22] <@julee> ** We need another badge, no?
- # [18:22] <@julee> Now: Golden standard
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- # [18:23] <@renoirb> Julee: Is there somebody who wants to make a golden standard
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- # [18:26] <@renoirb> Eliot: Every page should review and be compared to a list that fits against the standard spec
- # [18:26] <@renoirb> Julee: I will have a spreadsheet all specs and their documents
- # [18:26] <@renoirb> ... On that, we need to have a page to use as an example (hence: Golden standard page)
- # [18:26] <@renoirb> ... that include examples
- # [18:26] <@renoirb> ... links and references
- # [18:28] <@renoirb> ... so we need that ONE VOLUNTEER to make that example page
- # [18:28] <@renoirb> ... and the community to review it
- # [18:29] <@renoirb> ACTION: Somebody to find a volunteer for that Golden page :)
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- # [18:30] <@renoirb> Julee: Also we can accept people to volunteer on specific section of a content page
- # [18:30] * Joins: shaunbaker (~shaunbake@2001:67c:90:7ff:154f:675:6ac9:a6e9)
- # [18:30] <@renoirb> ... I am suggesting that we use the Array page as the candidate to be the page to use
- # [18:30] <@renoirb> renoirb: agrees with the Array page
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- # [18:31] <@renoirb> AGENDA: Schedule
- # [18:31] <@renoirb> JuleE: there is about 360 pages
- # [18:32] <@renoirb> ... with various levels of information depth
- # [18:32] <@renoirb> ... if we target about 50 pages a week. We are maybe looking at 6 months of work
- # [18:32] <@renoirb> ... lets see how many contributors we have.
- # [18:33] <@renoirb> ... we are going to have a few DocSprints coming in.
- # [18:33] <@renoirb> ... a lot can be done during those
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- # [18:34] <@renoirb> Eliot: Due to the number of DocsSprints, we are looking at a 6 months as a baseline
- # [18:34] <@julee> AGENDA: Site stability
- # [18:35] <@julee> renoirb: last time, after the migration, load balancing was needed between server instances
- # [18:35] <@julee> … I'm in the process of moving around the VMs
- # [18:35] <@julee> … it's a slow process. Not to do during the wee.
- # [18:35] <@julee> … I'll do it on the weekends.
- # [18:35] <@julee> … A blocker is that 1 isn't being used at all.
- # [18:36] <@julee> … We'll use that 4th one for swapping.
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- # [18:36] <@julee> … I'm also fine tuning install, adjust apache servers between servers.
- # [18:37] <@julee> julee: how long to get to HA 99%
- # [18:37] <@julee> ?
- # [18:37] <@julee> renoirb: right now it works well.
- # [18:37] <@julee> … there's a lot of work to do.
- # [18:37] <@julee> … there's also compatibility table work so I can't work on this all the time.
- # [18:37] <@julee> … It's hard to have just one person on this.
- # [18:37] <@julee> … There's always something to do.
- # [18:38] <@julee> … I want to say next week,
- # [18:38] <@julee> … But let's say 1 month.
- # [18:38] <@julee> … I have to install tools to make sure.
- # [18:38] <@julee> … wish I could have more reassurance.
- # [18:38] <@julee> julee: if you install tools, you'll be able to predict better.
- # [18:39] <@julee> renoirb : I see in current tools what's happening
- # [18:39] <@julee> … But when you see 503s, I need to adjust things.
- # [18:39] <@julee> … Errors on servers are always going to be a 503 or whatever.
- # [18:42] * Joins: ckwalsh (~ckwalsh@facebook/platform/ckwalsh)
- # [18:42] <@julee> julee: predictability first, then HA for contributors
- # [18:42] <@julee> renoirb: I know this is important
- # [18:42] <@julee> … I am communicating
- # [18:42] <@julee> … I have a list I discuss with Doug
- # [18:42] <@julee> … We have systems that are giving us information
- # [18:42] <@julee> … We just need to make adjustments
- # [18:43] <@julee> … We don't have a crystal ball
- # [18:43] <@julee> … I need to work on it on the weekend
- # [18:43] <@julee> … And then monitor during the week
- # [18:43] <@julee> … I like that we make a blog post
- # [18:43] <@julee> … and we amplify it
- # [18:44] * Joins: morficus (~morficus@108-205-132-58.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net)
- # [18:44] <@julee> … want to capture the failure for auto communication
- # [18:44] <@julee> … and communicating when something happens
- # [18:44] <@julee> eliot: I'll help you with a blog post
- # [18:45] <@julee> … and we understand the complexity you were handled
- # [18:45] <@julee> renoirb: it's not bad, just a big system
- # [18:45] <@renoirb> ... and a lot of loose ends
- # [18:45] <@julee> julee: yes, we appreciate all that renoirb is doing for us
- # [18:46] <@julee> renoirb: I have a plan that I communicated with Doug
- # [18:46] <@julee> … compatibility tables I'm also working on
- # [18:46] * Joins: alrra (~alrra@unaffiliated/alrra)
- # [18:47] <@julee> Max: we have an internal test app, bot to load down the servers to test capacities
- # [18:47] <@julee> renoirb: that would be nice
- # [18:47] <@julee> … I have a system that does a lot of pages
- # [18:47] <@julee> … a shell script
- # [18:47] <@julee> … but a loadtesting suite, that would be great to get some help to build that.
- # [18:47] <@julee> Max: it draws out problems.
- # [18:47] * Joins: jorgepedret (~jorgepedr@70-36-56-110.dyn.novuscom.net)
- # [18:47] <@julee> renoirb: could you help?
- # [18:48] <@julee> Max: sure, it's a longterm project, but yes
- # [18:48] <jensimmons> for the landing page discussion: http://webplatform.jensimmons.com/design/
- # [18:48] * Quits: morficus (~morficus@108-205-132-58.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
- # [18:50] <@renoirb> AGENDA: Compatibility Tables
- # [18:50] <@julee> AGENDA: compatibility tables
- # [18:50] * Quits: jorgepedret (~jorgepedr@70-36-56-110.dyn.novuscom.net) (Read error: Operation timed out)
- # [18:50] <@renoirb> Pat
- # [18:51] <@renoirb> Pat tressel
- # [18:51] * Joins: eliot (836bc090@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.192.144)
- # [18:51] <@julee> renoirb: I got in touch with Pat Tressel
- # [18:51] <@julee> we are free to work on the compat tables
- # [18:51] <@julee> … there had been some discussions about how to represent it
- # [18:51] * Joins: ptressel (~chatzilla@174-31-227-126.tukw.qwest.net)
- # [18:51] <@julee> … all we want is to import MDN & caniuse for now
- # [18:52] <@julee> … eventually, data will come from Testthewebforward
- # [18:52] <@julee> … Right now we have the code from Pat to build the HTML tables
- # [18:52] <@julee> … We're about to start this taskforce
- # [18:52] <@julee> … to use TestTWF
- # [18:53] <@julee> … Need to not cut off data that we have from MDN & caniuse
- # [18:53] <@julee> … ^ historical data
- # [18:53] <@julee> … Testtwf will be additive
- # [18:54] <@julee> … browser sniffing as well
- # [18:54] <@julee> There are a lot of components
- # [18:54] <ptressel> (Little correction: The code is from frozenice, rather than Pat.)
- # [18:54] <@julee> … Part of Testtwf project
- # [18:54] <eliot> Just a point of clarity: I believe the goal is to uset he W3C test suite (which TestTWF donates tests to)
- # [18:54] <@julee> Julee: can we get a plan?
- # [18:55] <eliot> q+
- # [18:57] <@julee> Julee: would like to have more visibility on this plan
- # [18:57] <@julee> Are we triangulating data
- # [18:57] <@julee> What taskforce?
- # [18:57] <@julee> What if Testtwf doesn't have test?
- # [18:57] <@julee> Are we no longer going to take the contributed data from others and triangulate the data?
- # [18:58] <@julee> renoirb: we'll do browser sniffing and push the results
- # [18:58] <@julee> Julee: I gues there's already a taskforce & designs, I look forward toseeing some of this.
- # [18:59] <@julee> Eliot: Testtwf : tests are donated
- # [18:59] <@julee> … the goal is to use this test suite to validate
- # [19:00] <@julee> … If no test, spec can't get to Recommendation phase without tests for each normative statement
- # [19:00] <@julee> … 6 figures for HTML5 of tests
- # [19:00] <@julee> … 10K tests are being donated!
- # [19:00] <@julee> … All specs need these test
- # [19:00] <@julee> … Ultimately, that's what we're going for
- # [19:00] * Quits: alrra (~alrra@unaffiliated/alrra) (Quit: Leaving)
- # [19:01] <@julee> … And then if we have sites that don't use normative tests, do we use that data?
- # [19:01] <@julee> … More like building a test harness than juggling folks who are creating these tests
- # [19:01] <@julee> jen: hope we still have a human element, here
- # [19:02] <@julee> eliot: Yes
- # [19:02] <@julee> … And what if spec doesn't have tests
- # [19:02] <@julee> jen: really is a resource : can I really use this right now
- # [19:03] <@julee> … test harness is great, but when data is aggregated and triangulated, it gives a human reality check
- # [19:03] <@julee> eliot: yes, but for the purpose of the compatibility table : it is about the data
- # [19:03] <@julee> jen: that's not how folks use caniuse
- # [19:03] <@julee> eliot: We're saying teh same thing
- # [19:04] <@julee> jen: but maybe we have different definitions of whether something works
- # [19:04] <@julee> … real word level of specs not working out
- # [19:05] <@julee> julee: The taskforce should be announced
- # [19:05] <@julee> … and plan should be published so folks can comment on it
- # [19:06] <@renoirb> scribenick: renoirb
- # [19:06] <jensimmons> http://webplatform.jensimmons.com/design/
- # [19:06] <@renoirb> Jen: If you go to ^
- # [19:06] <@renoirb> ... you see a prototype in progress
- # [19:07] <@renoirb> ... should get the idea of the model
- # [19:07] <@renoirb> ... could get the idea of the content hierarchy
- # [19:08] <@renoirb> ... do not look at the lower section
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- # [19:09] <@renoirb> ... for the first page, doesn't matter if we have to update some of the content in the html directly
- # [19:09] <@renoirb> ... make sure that content such as next doc sprints
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- # [19:11] <@renoirb> ... opinions
- # [19:11] <@renoirb> Eliott: I really like the direction you are going with this
- # [19:11] <@renoirb> Julee: this is more what we need
- # [19:12] * Quits: jonatasnona (~jonatasno@177.180.10.136) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
- # [19:12] <@renoirb> Jen: I just wanted to give direction, we should definitely agree with the content
- # Session Close: Fri Jan 31 19:13:17 2014
- #
- # Session Start: Fri Jan 31 19:13:17 2014
- # Session Ident: #webplatform
- # [19:13] * Disconnected
- # [19:18] * Attempting to rejoin channel #webplatform
- # [19:18] * Rejoined channel #webplatform
- # [19:18] * Topic is 'Conversations about WebPlatform Docs | Contribute with us! http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Editors_Guide'
- # [19:18] * Set by renoirb!~renoirb@h8.elcweb.ca on Fri Jan 31 16:03:00
- # [19:18] -ChanServ- [#microformats] Welcome to #microformats. Logs at http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/microformats
- # [19:19] <eliot> jensimmons: Thanks. That's too real. "Rex, get down!"
- # [19:19] <@renoirb> I totally felt you were the hidden guy when you apeared jensimmons
- # [19:20] <@julee> renorib : you're the best! ;-)
- # [19:20] <ptressel> renoirb, Say...do the meeting notes get posted somewhere, or is the channel logged? My network connection decided to die just as the meeting was starting. :P
- # [19:20] <@frozenice> I see the meeting went well. :)
- # [19:21] <@frozenice> btw ptressel renoirb: I'm on leave/vacation next month, so a time slot for meetings should be easy to find :)
- # [19:21] <ptressel> Ah!
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- # [19:29] <ptressel> So...anyone know if the channel is logged, or if the meeting notes get scraped to somewhere?
- # [19:30] <@frozenice> julee or so will post the notes
- # [19:33] <ptressel> Ok, thanks! At the point where I got re-connected, the discussion was on the browser compatibility import...
- # [19:34] <@frozenice> bad timing
- # [19:34] <@frozenice> or good
- # [19:34] <@frozenice> the raw notes are now posted btw
- # [19:34] <@julee> http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Community/Meetings/General/2014/0131_raw_mtg_notes
- # [19:35] <ptressel> Thanks!!
- # [19:35] <ptressel> frozenice, Bad timing, as I was *also* in the middle of a payment on Amazon.
- # [19:36] <@frozenice> heh
- # [19:37] <ptressel> Also backup. Had to quit out of backup and restart both my laptop and dsl modem.
- # [19:37] <ptressel> I think my isp is yanking my dhcp lease too frequently...or something. Really need to start using wireshark...
- # [19:56] <@renoirb> Hey ptressel no worries. I restored the logger yesterday.
- # [19:57] <@renoirb> ... but the thing we use to show it has not been reinstalled.
- # [19:57] <@renoirb> ... it was a low hanging fruit that I worked on yesterday.
- # [19:57] <@renoirb> Say hi to wp-logger ptressel
- # [20:01] <ptressel> Aha!
- # [20:02] <ptressel> wp-logger hi
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- # [20:02] <ptressel> Ok, not a responder. ;-)
- # [20:06] * Quits: jensimmons (~jensimmon@drupal.org/user/140882/view) (Quit: jensimmons)
- # [20:06] <@renoirb> ptressel: The thing is a python script that push to a database table. that is all.
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- # [20:06] <@frozenice> hmm, I need to finish irc-apparatus...
- # [20:07] <ptressel> Ah! We (sahanafoundation.org) run Sean Palmer's loggy, which is Python.
- # [20:07] <@renoirb> I'd like to push to a dedicated ElasticSearch index someday
- # [20:07] <@renoirb> Then create a small Kibana dashboard
- # [20:07] <@renoirb> for it
- # [20:08] <@frozenice> how hard would it be to setup such an index?
- # [20:08] <@renoirb> curl POST with right parameters...
- # [20:08] <@renoirb> ... and have that ES cluster.
- # [20:08] <@renoirb> in my todo
- # [20:08] <ptressel> What's the index for?
- # [20:09] <@renoirb> ElasticSearch ("ES") can have more than one index.
- # [20:09] <@frozenice> would be a straight-forward plugin for irc-apparatus :)
- # [20:09] <@renoirb> We will eventually have:
- # [20:09] <@renoirb> - LogStash
- # [20:09] <@renoirb> - IRC (an idea)
- # [20:09] <ptressel> But...what goes in the index?
- # [20:09] <@frozenice> this
- # [20:09] <@renoirb> - Whatever else we might want to use a search engine for
- # [20:10] <ptressel> Oh, you mean index in the sense of *lucene*.
- # [20:10] <@renoirb> yes!
- # [20:10] <ptressel> Er...why not lucene?
- # [20:10] <ptressel> With Solr?
- # [20:10] <@frozenice> ES is based on lucene
- # [20:10] <@renoirb> ElasticSearch is a service container (similar to Solr) that stores in Lucene format (but scales better)
- # [20:10] <ptressel> Sort-of.
- # [20:11] <ptressel> As in the author also started Lucene, IIRC.
- # [20:11] <@renoirb> It is the same, but the way ES is built, you can have more than one server to store all the indexes.
- # [20:11] <@renoirb> I have to go.
- # [20:11] <@renoirb> BRB
- # [20:11] <ptressel> But ES is rewritten to support higher bandwidth
- # [20:11] <ptressel> Right
- # [20:11] <ptressel> o/
- # [20:12] <@renoirb> we have ES at the moment
- # [20:12] <ptressel> Ok, that's an argument in favor of using it. :D
- # [20:12] <@renoirb> see annotation.webplatform.org:5000/stream
- # [20:12] <@renoirb> http://annotation.webplatform.org:5000/stream
- # [20:13] <@renoirb> and http://annotation.webplatform.org:5000/
- # [20:13] <@renoirb> data is stored in ES
- # [20:13] <@renoirb> see the hypothes.is project
- # [20:13] <@renoirb> http://
- # [20:13] <@renoirb> got to go now
- # [20:13] <ptressel> Bye! (mee too)
- # [20:14] <@frozenice> bb
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- # [20:14] <ptressel> bbl...
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- # [21:12] <@julee> renoirb : will you be around for the import @ 6pm est?
- # [21:12] <@julee> shepazu : will you be on line?
- # [21:12] <@renoirb> yes, i will for sure!
- # [21:12] <@julee> yeah! thanks much!
- # [21:14] <@renoirb> Sure, I had this in mind to say during the meeting. But got too busy scribingç
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- # Session Close: Sat Feb 01 00:00:00 2014
The end :)