/irc-logs / freenode / #webplatform / 2014-02-07 / end

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  2. # Session Ident: #webplatform
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  41. # [04:10] <@julee> OK, I've worked some on Array http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/javascript/Array
  42. # [04:10] <@julee> Still need better examples.
  43. # [04:10] <@julee> I'm done for the night, so go for it!
  44. # [04:11] <@julee> Nite all.
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  140. # [16:37] <eliezerb> renoirb: Yeah, the logo is very close to the WPD
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  142. # [16:39] <@renoirb> I know
  143. # [16:39] <@renoirb> I'll make sure it falls in my boss' radar!
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  175. # [18:08] <jkomoros_> scribenick: jkomoros_
  176. # [18:08] <jkomoros_> topic: MDN Compat Tables
  177. # [18:08] <jentesting> I won't be on the phone today, but I'll lurk in this channel if my tethered phone connection says working. This is Jen Simmons, btw.
  178. # [18:08] <jkomoros_> shepazu: frozenice made a script to pull in data from MDN
  179. # [18:09] <jkomoros_> ... renoirb made a conversion script from that format into more clean data
  180. # [18:09] * @renoirb is sorry to be late
  181. # [18:10] <jkomoros_> ... we're using MDN as the starting point for compat data, since it's tehc loest match to our page structure.
  182. # [18:10] <jkomoros_> ... using the caniuse json format to format the JSON
  183. # [18:10] <jkomoros_> ... later we'll work with our own data format that will be able to accomodate data from our sources
  184. # [18:10] <jkomoros_> ... but this is an easy first pass
  185. # [18:10] <jkomoros_> ... next we should be able to work on the medaiwiki extension that takes the json and injects into web pages
  186. # [18:10] <jkomoros_> ... uses something like this format
  187. # [18:11] <jkomoros_> ... we're going to modify that script slightly to work with the new data
  188. # [18:11] <jkomoros_> ... then I think we're good to put this data out
  189. # [18:11] <jkomoros_> renoirb: There's some limitations on the script that frozenice mentioned
  190. # [18:11] <jkomoros_> ... trying to understand it, but basically it doesn't fetch all because of limitations on paginations on kuma
  191. # [18:11] <jkomoros_> ... so we might need to dig a bt deeper on that
  192. # [18:11] <jkomoros_> shepazu: Might have to do with ratelimiting
  193. # [18:12] <@renoirb> Look at the "Current issues" https://github.com/webplatform/mdn-compat-importer/blob/master/README.md#current-issues
  194. # [18:12] <jkomoros_> ... the big thing is that we have a working conversion script
  195. # [18:12] <jkomoros_> renoirb: This link ^ has information on the current issues
  196. # [18:12] <jkomoros_> ... so it's probably not all data, but we can compare later when we can get more
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  198. # [18:12] <jkomoros_> jkomoros_: Is this a run-once-and-never-again kind of thing?
  199. # [18:12] <jkomoros_> shepazu: We've been assumign we're going to run it once
  200. # [18:12] <jkomoros_> ... MDN data isn't updated all of that often
  201. # [18:13] <jkomoros_> ... renoirb wrote a rigorous script (with frozenice ), so if we need to, we can run it again
  202. # [18:13] <jkomoros_> jkomoros_: I was more thinking, if we work on the data, later imports could blow it away
  203. # [18:13] <jkomoros_> shepazu: I wish jswisher were here today, but we'd love to work closer with MDN
  204. # [18:14] <jkomoros_> ... there's room for improvement in the data, especially when we merge in caniuse
  205. # [18:14] <jkomoros_> ... we could have different data sources all munged into one data source
  206. # [18:14] <jkomoros_> ... we're going to do that with caniuse and W3C test suite anyway
  207. # [18:14] <jkomoros_> ... we could store our own updated data in a separate store and then merge those on
  208. # [18:15] <jkomoros_> ... so our data would take precedence over MDN (likely)
  209. # [18:15] <jkomoros_> ... make all the data available via the same API from multiple sources
  210. # [18:16] <jkomoros_> shepazu: Jeremie Pationnier (sp?) is driving an effort in MDN to improve their compat tables data
  211. # [18:16] <jkomoros_> ... they weren't aware of this project. We'll make the normalized data available to them, obviously
  212. # [18:17] <jkomoros_> ... to help them structure their data more consistently. Hopefully we can convince the MDN folks to join forces with this project
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  214. # [18:17] <jkomoros_> jkomoros_: That could be difficult in practice, but if it works, great!
  215. # [18:17] <jkomoros_> shepazu: I'll reach out to MDN folks about what we're doing, our next steps, our current status, etc on Compat tables
  216. # [18:18] <jkomoros_> ... I'm going to try to work on the script (working with renoirb) over the next week to try to get the script (the extension for mediawiki) going
  217. # [18:18] <jkomoros_> ... will also work with ryanlane
  218. # [18:18] <jkomoros_> ... hopefully we'll have, by next friday, the compat table information generated and displayed in the site
  219. # [18:18] <jkomoros_> [much rejoicing]
  220. # [18:19] <jkomoros_> ... after that, major blocker for announcing CSS prop project is the ready/not-ready flag
  221. # [18:19] <jkomoros_> ... we have the groundwork laid for that so hopefully it won't be too challenging
  222. # [18:19] <jkomoros_> ... eliezerb already wrote the template for that
  223. # [18:19] <jkomoros_> ... and then we need to start talking about how to make the announcement
  224. # [18:20] <jkomoros_> topic: WPW for JS
  225. # [18:21] <jkomoros_> shepazu: since jen isn't here we can't talk about home page effort
  226. # [18:21] <jkomoros_> ... so I think the rest of this meeting should be about JS WPW
  227. # [18:21] <jkomoros_> ... eliot helped drive a blog post from maxpolk about JS and the community
  228. # [18:21] <jkomoros_> ... I thought it was very nicely done
  229. # [18:21] <jkomoros_> ... we now have the JS stuff imported
  230. # [18:22] <jkomoros_> ... and have WPW coming up.
  231. # [18:22] <jkomoros_> julee__:
  232. # [18:22] <jkomoros_> ... this week I tried to get folks to contribute to the Gold Standard JS page
  233. # [18:22] <@renoirb> julee: I did a little bit :)
  234. # [18:22] <jkomoros_> ... no one volunteered. I did some work and then requested that folks contribute examples, and no one stepped up
  235. # [18:23] <jkomoros_> ... eliot added a sub-agenda item about what's the plan
  236. # [18:23] <jkomoros_> ...we have everything set up, we just need to have contributors and coordinators
  237. # [18:23] <jkomoros_> ... I'm a little hesitant about what will happen next week, since no one has stepped up yet
  238. # [18:23] <jkomoros_> ... maybe if we can have some of us on this phone call volunteer to coordinate
  239. # [18:23] <jkomoros_> ... and maye amplify the blog post
  240. # [18:23] <jkomoros_> ... and tweet
  241. # [18:24] <jkomoros_> ... to get some folks back into the fold
  242. # [18:24] <jkomoros_> shepazu: I think there's a matter of bringing more people into the fold
  243. # [18:24] <jkomoros_> ... the people who care about JS might be different than the ones who helped out with WPW for CSS
  244. # [18:24] <jkomoros_> ... maybe we should have two WPW's running: JS and HTML at the same time?
  245. # [18:25] <jkomoros_> julee: Given that we can't find enough for one, I think we should just focus on JS
  246. # [18:25] <jkomoros_> eliot: We need to walk before we run
  247. # [18:25] <jkomoros_> ... the bottleneck now is getting it going, and JS is the priority above HTML
  248. # [18:25] <jkomoros_> ... if we have momentum from that we can look at also kicking off JS
  249. # [18:25] <jkomoros_> ... I agree that audiences are different potentially
  250. # [18:26] <jkomoros_> shepazu: I think it will be harder to find JS people to contribute than HTML people to contrbute
  251. # [18:26] <jkomoros_> ... so it seems harder to start on JS than HTML
  252. # [18:26] <jkomoros_> julee: i see that as well
  253. # [18:26] <jkomoros_> ... I was being firm on JS project since we had excitement about it this summer and had announced our intention
  254. # [18:26] <jkomoros_> ... but I'm willing to reassess
  255. # [18:28] <jkomoros_> eliot: I think you're both right but [scribe was asleep at the wheel for a minute]
  256. # [18:28] <jkomoros_> shepazu: so maybe we start more modestly as we ramp up. we have say 5 people
  257. # [18:28] <jkomoros_> ... maybe we do 5 JS pages a week to start (or maybe 10) and build up a base of contributors that way
  258. # [18:28] <jkomoros_> ... I'm concerned with having a gap if we aim too high (like 20), that could have us lose momentum
  259. # [18:28] <jkomoros_> ... maybe if we shoot for 5 and ramp up as capacity increases
  260. # [18:29] <jkomoros_> julee: I'm less worried about numbers than having hte commitment to be coordinators
  261. # [18:29] <jkomoros_> ... and do the community work to pull folks in
  262. # [18:30] <jkomoros_> shepazu: Filling out reference pages is easy but boring
  263. # [18:30] <jkomoros_> ... what if we tried to pair (or gave as an option) take a reference page, and also consider writing a longer article/tutorial about using the feature
  264. # [18:30] <jkomoros_> ... there might be some peopel that woudl appeal to
  265. # [18:31] <jkomoros_> jkomoros_: My gut is that's more work for them to do, making it less likely
  266. # [18:31] <jkomoros_> julee: But making the work more interesting is a good idea
  267. # [18:31] <jkomoros_> shepazu: So maybe we need to highlight the more interesting aspects
  268. # [18:31] * Joins: Jeremie (~Jeremie@89.202.203.52)
  269. # [18:31] <jkomoros_> eliot: I think that's what came out in the CSS props project: people liked the example code bits best
  270. # [18:31] <jkomoros_> julee__: And if there are good examples on the page, then people who are less knolwedgable can pull from those to write reference
  271. # [18:32] <jkomoros_> ... this week when I tried to get people involved I asked fo rpeople to write examples
  272. # [18:32] <jkomoros_> shepazu: I don't think I could write a good article on JS
  273. # [18:32] <jkomoros_> ... I could do it for SVG or HTML or CSS
  274. # [18:33] <jkomoros_> ... JS feels like it has a higher bar for quality
  275. # [18:33] <@renoirb> q+
  276. # [18:33] <@renoirb> shepazu, julee__
  277. # [18:33] <@renoirb> Go ahead Eliott
  278. # [18:33] <jkomoros_> eliot: What I say at doc sprints to that: "we're nto writing the definitive book, we're writing a wiki"
  279. # [18:34] <jkomoros_> ... others can come to edit/contribute/amend
  280. # [18:34] <jkomoros_> ... we're not shooting for perfect, but solid
  281. # [18:35] <jkomoros_> shepazu: I still feel like JS is harder
  282. # [18:35] <jkomoros_> ... and that there will be others like me who are intimidated
  283. # [18:35] <jkomoros_> renoirb: How about some of us take some time looking at good blogs/sites and ask them to help?
  284. # [18:35] <jkomoros_> ... and JS communities to contact
  285. # [18:36] <jkomoros_> shepazu: What's the timing on all of this?
  286. # [18:36] <jkomoros_> julee: I outlined in the blog post that we'll release the pages on tuesday nights
  287. # [18:37] <jkomoros_> ... and blog post specifically mentioned next tuesday
  288. # [18:37] <jkomoros_> ACTION: everyone to share the blog post about JS WPW and contact people in their community to amplify and join
  289. # [18:38] <jkomoros_> [renoirb, eliot, shepazu commit to being coordinators]
  290. # [18:38] <jkomoros_> julee: Process can be same as before
  291. # [18:38] <jkomoros_> ... once people know what they're doing we can have people volunteer to coordinate
  292. # [18:38] <jkomoros_> ... plan was to get import done in Jan, WPW in Feb, and then we have the fluentconft
  293. # [18:39] <jkomoros_> ... where there are a lot of folks who can join us
  294. # [18:39] <jkomoros_> ... then the docsprint in... belgium?
  295. # [18:39] <jkomoros_> shepazu: Isn't that on hold?
  296. # [18:39] <jkomoros_> julee__: After the docsprint in march we can assess if we're getting enough contributors, how it's going, or if we should move over to HTML
  297. # [18:39] <jkomoros_> eliot: What about having HTML ready for fluent?
  298. # [18:40] <jkomoros_> ... to leverage that expertise there?
  299. # [18:40] <jkomoros_> shepazu: That seems reasonable
  300. # [18:40] <jkomoros_> julee: I thought fluent was more about JS developers
  301. # [18:40] <jkomoros_> eliot: I think it will be both
  302. # [18:40] <jentesting> Fluent used to be about JS only, but they are pushing hard to make it Web Platform in general
  303. # [18:41] <jkomoros_> shepazu: Just want to make sure we don't turn people away who don't want to do JS
  304. # [18:41] <jentesting> and yes, the Belgium doc sprint doesn't have any dates. April was proposed, but won't work.
  305. # [18:41] <jkomoros_> eliot: I'm willing to drive that effort to get ready for HTML by then
  306. # [18:41] <jkomoros_> julee: and I can help as well... I just don't know if we have enough consistent community management to be able to handle both
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  310. # [18:42] <jkomoros_> eliiot: I think most important is getting the golden example pages for element + attribute
  311. # [18:43] <jkomoros_> julee: I'm okay with that
  312. # [18:43] <jkomoros_> ... especially given the number of peopel who will be there
  313. # [18:43] <jkomoros_> eliot: I'll be there, too
  314. # [18:43] <jkomoros_> ... docsprint is open to public
  315. # [18:44] <jkomoros_> shepazu: So we have a plan to announce and what we'll be doing
  316. # [18:44] <jkomoros_> eliot: I'm sitll a little unclear about this coming week's
  317. # [18:44] <jkomoros_> shepazu: My perception is that we have a: we work on a blogpost and each of us tries to find at least one expert to volunteer
  318. # [18:45] <jkomoros_> julee__: The blgopost is already out to point people at
  319. # [18:45] <jkomoros_> ... sot he idea is to announce that the WPW will start next wek
  320. # [18:45] <jkomoros_> ... and send out to folks
  321. # [18:45] <jkomoros_> ... on tuesday we should have a blog post about the topics for the first week
  322. # [18:45] <jkomoros_> ... I was going to start with Array and see who shows up
  323. # [18:46] <jkomoros_> shepazu: MDN has excellent JS docs
  324. # [18:46] <jkomoros_> ... maybe we should see if people who contributed there would be interested in being involved
  325. # [18:47] <jkomoros_> ACTION shepazu to reach out to MDN folks who contributed to JS documentation and see if they want to be involved in JS WPW
  326. # [18:49] * @renoirb wants to have your feeling about http://www.w3.org/mid/2703272A-5C27-4FDE-A62A-7133307BE3D2@w3.org
  327. # [18:49] * @renoirb AGENDA+ ^
  328. # [18:49] <jkomoros_> [scribe was distracted for a few minutes]
  329. # [18:49] <jkomoros_> shepazu: I think to keep the community we need to keep up the engagement
  330. # [18:50] <jkomoros_> ... short term we just need to find people to help with JS stuff
  331. # [18:53] <jkomoros_> ACTION: shepazu to create a doodle poll about moving this meeting
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  346. # [19:37] <@Garbee> renoirb: I've seen a logo that is literally the WPD logo, but upside down (M) and different colors.
  347. # [19:37] <@Garbee> imo, people will take inspiration from wherever (or straight up take & modify.) Who knows where the idea originated.
  348. # [19:38] <@Garbee> Plus, enforcing possible logo abuse just seems like a silly use of resources when everything we do is CC licensed.
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The end :)