/irc-logs / freenode / #webplatform / 2014-03-05 / end

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  213. # [18:42] <+jensimmons> renoirb: I don't seem to have permission to push commits to static-pages. Am I a contributor with full rights?
  214. # [18:44] <+jensimmons> Can you add me?
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  217. # [18:50] <+jensimmons> renoirb: ?
  218. # [18:50] <@frozenice> jensimmons: try again :)
  219. # [18:50] <+jensimmons> thanks
  220. # [18:51] <+jensimmons> works. excellent. thanks.
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  222. # [18:51] <@frozenice> np!
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  229. # [19:05] <+jensimmons> Can anyone explain how the pages are being built in this repo? (static-pages) I see .html pages, static and flat... but then I see commented out PHP commands, and php temple files to be included. What I don't see is a index.php that's being used to generate index.html.
  230. # [19:06] <+jensimmons> Are we still using index.php to generate the index.html file? Is php just being run on someone's local machine? How is it setup?.... Or is all of this old moldy stuff that we should delete, and just use .html files.
  231. # [19:08] <+jensimmons> I should either modify what I'm doing to align with the rest of this, or delete the cruft and make a clean repo. I'm not sure which way to go, because it doesn't seem that all the pieces to support a custom php CMS are here.
  232. # [19:08] <+jensimmons> renoirb: ?
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  235. # [19:15] <@Garbee> jensimmons: I personally always just edited the HTML file directly.
  236. # [19:16] <@Garbee> Like when I added a chatroom iframe to the chat page.
  237. # [19:16] <+jensimmons> yeah? ok. Then I think the PHP files should go away.
  238. # [19:16] * @Garbee could have done it wrong.
  239. # [19:16] <+jensimmons> I'm working in a separate branch, so we can always roll back.
  240. # [19:16] <+jensimmons> I'm just a big fan of keeping things tidy.
  241. # [19:16] <@Garbee> I think we may need to keep the PHP around.
  242. # [19:16] <@Garbee> For when the header changes.
  243. # [19:16] <@Garbee> To recreate it.
  244. # [19:16] <@Garbee> So, it would be best to make the edit in both the HTML and PHP version.
  245. # [19:17] <+jensimmons> well, even if you 'did it wrong' — if it's not obvious how to 'do it right' and everyone is likely to 'do it wrong' then *that's* what's wrong
  246. # [19:17] <+jensimmons> needs to be fullproof
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  248. # [19:17] <@Garbee> Yea, we need a CONTRIBUTING.md file in the repo explaining how to contribute.
  249. # [19:17] <+jensimmons> there are php files for the 404 and 503 pages. I'll leave those in place (I did edit both to make them accessible)
  250. # [19:17] <+jensimmons> but the index.php file is missing
  251. # [19:17] * Quits: auchenberg (~auchenber@94.191.186.165.mobile.3.dk) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  252. # [19:18] <+jensimmons> maybe someone else already had this conversation and removed the php file
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  269. # [20:01] <@Garbee> I wonder if we can add a filter to the beginners page. http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/beginners
  270. # [20:01] <@Garbee> So when anyone tries to submit an edit with "Sublime Text" it gets rejected.
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  272. # [20:02] <@frozenice> I think we can, with the spam rules thingy :P
  273. # [20:04] <@Garbee> I'll look into it in a second. I just removed the mention yet again.
  274. # [20:05] <@frozenice> saw that :)
  275. # [20:05] <@Garbee> Someone clearly went into the comments for the section to say they added it back, so they should have read my comment not to.
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  281. # [20:14] <@Garbee> Although, one person has a good point in the comments.
  282. # [20:14] <+jensimmons> Nerds really love their Sublime text, eh?
  283. # [20:15] <@Garbee> We should highlight one of the editors (Brackets preferred) that is cross platform for people to start with.
  284. # [20:15] <@Garbee> We can also use that in screenshots so things are consistent.
  285. # [20:15] <@Garbee> Yea, I honestly love it as a GUI editor. (mostly using vim now)
  286. # [20:15] <@Garbee> But, it isn't free so it isn't cut out for that list.
  287. # [20:16] <@Garbee> People keep saying it is free because they just use it without buying a license because Jon is nice about it, but that doesn't mean it is free.
  288. # [20:16] <@frozenice> ST = fun :)
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  290. # [20:22] <@Garbee> jensimmons: Do you know of any good (Open Source) designs that are good to teach in a beginners guide?
  291. # [20:22] <+jensimmons> uh, no
  292. # [20:22] <@Garbee> Or should we make a custom template for our demonstration/education purposes.
  293. # [20:22] <+jensimmons> by "design" do you mean a visual branding skin?
  294. # [20:23] <@Garbee> Yea.
  295. # [20:23] * @Garbee thinks we need an Acme Company skin.
  296. # [20:23] <+jensimmons> perhaps
  297. # [20:24] <+jensimmons> don't call it 'design' however. Design is so much deeper than being able to implement a web page's visual look with CSS
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  299. # [20:24] <+jensimmons> a "beginners guide to web design", imo, would start with research and content strategy
  300. # [20:24] <@Garbee> Well, it isn't a tutorial for doing it.
  301. # [20:25] <@Garbee> it is for use *in* the beginners guide as the look we want people to achieve.
  302. # [20:25] <+jensimmons> ie: think through what is this website for? who is the audience?
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  304. # [20:25] <@Garbee> Yea, beginners guide to actual design is up to someone who is not me. :P I can't design if my life depended on it.
  305. # [20:25] <+jensimmons> but a tutorial on how to implement a design by using CSS, that's a cool tutorial to do, of sure. I'm just being a nerd about the use of the word 'design'
  306. # [20:26] <@Garbee> I'm glad. I don't really see much of a difference since I don't do it. :P
  307. # [20:26] <+jensimmons> examples of implemented visual designs — use CSS Zen Garden
  308. # [20:26] <+jensimmons> tons o stuff
  309. # [20:26] <+jensimmons> very educational
  310. # [20:26] <+jensimmons> great place for people to pick stuff apart and understand that the HTML is separate from the CSS
  311. # [20:26] <+jensimmons> (and js)
  312. # [20:26] <@Garbee> oh nice.
  313. # [20:26] <+jensimmons> http://www.csszengarden.com
  314. # [20:26] <+jensimmons> it's recently been reinvirogated
  315. # [20:27] <+jensimmons> *reinvigorated
  316. # [20:27] <+jensimmons> and it has a long history of being a canonical example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSS_Zen_Garden
  317. # [20:28] * Quits: auchenberg (~auchenber@94.191.186.165.mobile.3.dk) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  318. # [20:28] <@Garbee> I was thinking a while ago our demo site would be something like a recipe site. It has plenty of UL use-cases along with being able to show off thinking about the document outline well, among plenty of other good bonuses.
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  321. # [20:36] <@Garbee> jensimmons: Sadly looks like only the HTML and CSS are now available. I don't see where we can get the images that the templates use. :(
  322. # [20:37] <@Garbee> Oh well, I'll get some markup done and give some styling a go, then ask around and see if anyone can donate some time to make something better for us to teach.
  323. # [20:38] <+jensimmons> well, you can always just ran the images (via something like SiteSuck), or better, by contacting Dave Shea and asking. But — I don't know about grabbing any of the code and hosting it someplace else. I don't know that we have the rights to do that, and even if it were public domain or CC, that seems slimy to me.
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  325. # [20:39] <+jensimmons> I was thinking tutorials could be written using CSS Zen Garden designs as examples, where the tutorial points to the example on csszengarden.com, and then deconstructs and explains it
  326. # [20:39] <+jensimmons> or
  327. # [20:39] <+jensimmons> ...
  328. # [20:39] <+jensimmons> I'm not sure what you are writing
  329. # [20:40] <@Garbee> Rewriting this: http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/beginners
  330. # [20:40] <+jensimmons> perhaps you can create a *new* Css Zen Garden design, submit it to their site, and use it as the tutorial example
  331. # [20:40] <+jensimmons> that might be best
  332. # [20:40] <@Garbee> Entry to how to code.
  333. # [20:40] <+jensimmons> then readers could go breakdown other examples on their own (which is how a lot of people who got into the biz in 1996-2002 learned)
  334. # [20:41] <@Garbee> Yea, examples are great to break down. That is how I learned mostly over the past few years.
  335. # [20:41] <+jensimmons> yeah, it might make sense to just create a new example from scratch. Make up a need, and then fulfill that need ?
  336. # [20:41] <@Garbee> Yup, recipe site.
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  338. # [20:42] <@Garbee> But, in the process of "doing our own" I'd like to make an open "Acme Company" template that others can use in their demos/tutorials if needed. Or as one of these "zen" designs (but with newer stuff in use.)
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  340. # [20:43] <@Garbee> Like we could make an "Acme Company Style Guide" which has the styles for buttons, forms, etc.
  341. # [20:43] <@Garbee> Using something like this: http://bjankord.github.io/Style-Guide-Boilerplate/
  342. # [20:44] <@Garbee> That way the look is uniform within the template. But other people wanting to use it (since like me we can't design) it is open and easy.
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The end :)