/irc-logs / freenode / #webplatform / 2014-03-10 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Mar 10 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #webplatform
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  16. # [01:03] <+eliezerb> New comment system is AMAZING!
  17. # [01:04] <+eliezerb> Great work guys!
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  40. # [04:10] <@renoirb> Hey wilmoore glad to have you here
  41. # [04:10] * ptressel|nap is now known as ptressel
  42. # [04:10] <@renoirb> Hey ptressel
  43. # [04:10] <ptressel> Hi!
  44. # [04:11] <wilmoore> renoirb: thanks :)
  45. # [04:11] <ptressel> So, what do you think about that trick using Google Custom Search?
  46. # [04:11] <@renoirb> I think you might remember me, wilmoore, you came to talk at ConFoo last year. You met one of my former employees there
  47. # [04:12] <wilmoore> renoirb: yes, I thought your name was familiar.
  48. # [04:12] <@renoirb> Uhm, ptressel, can you remind me of that thread?
  49. # [04:12] <ptressel> Let me go find the link -- it was a comment on github.
  50. # [04:12] <@renoirb> I enjoyed very much your talk about Liquibase and database versioning tools
  51. # [04:12] <@renoirb> oh, ptressel, that!
  52. # [04:13] * Quits: wpdbot (~wpdbot@ec2-107-21-171-237.compute-1.amazonaws.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  53. # [04:13] <ptressel> :D
  54. # [04:13] <wilmoore> renoirb: thanks; yeah, it was fun to give that talk.
  55. # [04:13] <@renoirb> .. wpdbot? Is that *my* bot?
  56. # [04:13] * Joins: wpdbot (~wpdbot@ec2-54-227-87-215.compute-1.amazonaws.com)
  57. # [04:13] <@renoirb> wait a sec.
  58. # [04:13] <ptressel> Uh oh...
  59. # [04:13] <@renoirb> oh, no mine is wp-logger :)
  60. # [04:13] <ptressel> Is that the logger?
  61. # [04:13] <ptressel> Ok
  62. # [04:13] <@renoirb> Are you still giving talks wilmoore ?
  63. # [04:14] <wilmoore> renoirb: I have only been giving internal team tech-talks lately -- I will probably do a talk at a local group next month. No conferences ATM.
  64. # [04:14] <@renoirb> Hey ptressel, meet wilmoore, he's from Colorado. I met him f2f at a local conference, here in Montreal. He's been lying around here for all that time and I wasn't sure it was that guy I met :)
  65. # [04:15] <ptressel> Hi, wilmoore!
  66. # [04:15] <wilmoore> ptressel: hi there!
  67. # [04:15] * ptressel goes to look up liquibase...
  68. # [04:15] <@renoirb> wilmoore, meet ptressel, he's from europe (i think)
  69. # [04:15] <wilmoore> ptressel: good to meet you.
  70. # [04:16] <ptressel> I used to work on backup tools, including backup for Oracle Server, so definitely interested in database versioning.
  71. # [04:17] <wilmoore> ptressel: cool. I haven't done much in that area since then. I've been doing a lot of JavaScript, HTML5, CSS over the last year.
  72. # [04:17] <@renoirb> ptressel and me are looking to improve a scraper to get content from MDN.
  73. # [04:17] <ptressel> Aha!
  74. # [04:18] <ptressel> My backup work was likewise long ago...it was at DEC, and DEC ceased to exist in 1998...
  75. # [04:18] <@renoirb> no way, you worked at DEC?
  76. # [04:18] <ptressel> :)
  77. # [04:18] <ptressel> Best company evah.
  78. # [04:19] <wilmoore> ptressel: cool...
  79. # [04:19] <@renoirb> Precursors... who stagnated :(
  80. # [04:19] <@renoirb> like Polaroid
  81. # [04:19] <ptressel> How many companies that went out of business that long ago still have active "alumni" groups?
  82. # [04:19] <ptressel> We're planning a reunion As We Speak...
  83. # [04:19] <@renoirb> nice!
  84. # [04:20] <@renoirb> Are you following the public-webplatform mailing list wilmoore ?
  85. # [04:21] <wilmoore> renoirb: not really...but I have been meaning to get myself caught up there.
  86. # [04:21] <wilmoore> renoirb: I'd love to start helping out.
  87. # [04:22] <ptressel> \o/
  88. # [04:23] <@renoirb> I can debrief you if you want. Since we met, I got this job at W3C to work full time on WebPlatform Docs. http://blog.webplatform.org/2013/08/hi-my-name-s-renoir-ill-be-your-devops-for-the-web-platform/
  89. # [04:23] <@renoirb> /o/
  90. # [04:23] <ptressel> \o\
  91. # [04:23] <@renoirb> ~o~
  92. # [04:23] <wilmoore> renoirb: nice!
  93. # [04:24] <@renoirb> If you want/can help, just ping me.
  94. # [04:24] <@renoirb> At the moment, we had frozenice (he's probably sleeping in his hometown in Germany) who built this amazing scraper in NodeJS.
  95. # [04:25] <ptressel> :)
  96. # [04:25] <@renoirb> And at the moment, ptressel and me are mulling over a limitation from kuma... the engine of MDN
  97. # [04:25] <@renoirb> https://github.com/webplatform/mdn-compat-importer/issues/3
  98. # [04:25] <ptressel> Thanks -- I was just hunting up the link to the repo.
  99. # [04:26] <@renoirb> I am working on other projects at the moment, but that bug would unblock more stats.
  100. # [04:26] <wilmoore> renoirb: cool...I'll have a look at that project and see if I can be of assistance.
  101. # [04:26] <@renoirb> I cannot work on that issue directly, but i'm using the mdn-compat-importer.
  102. # [04:27] <ptressel> The question is, how do we act like a real crawler, and not over-crawl MDN.
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  104. # [04:27] <@renoirb> Soon, we will merge data from MDN with the data from caniuse, and others. Eventually to use data from real tests from the W3C.
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  107. # [04:28] <@renoirb> Yeah, that's a concern ptressel. We have a cache so running the code doesn't crawl again. But we should be able to add pages and add to the cache.
  108. # [04:28] <ptressel> A real crawler would (for instance) query page last changed time, and not request the page unless changed.
  109. # [04:28] <ptressel> But cached pages could change.
  110. # [04:28] <@renoirb> Thanks wilmoore :)
  111. # [04:29] <ptressel> We also are not sure all pages with compatibility tables are in the cache.
  112. # [04:29] <ptressel> Heh, the liquibase site has a Google Custom Search box.
  113. # [04:29] <@renoirb> Hey ptressel, are you in europe? Or I misremembered?
  114. # [04:30] <ptressel> I'm in Seattle, Washington, USA
  115. # [04:30] <wilmoore> ptressel: ah...Seattle. I'm in Denver. The SuperBowl still stings a bit :(
  116. # [04:31] <ptressel> Ha!
  117. # [04:32] <@renoirb> oh!
  118. # [04:33] <ptressel> [Insert appropriate smileys for 12th man dance]
  119. # [04:33] <@renoirb> I'm so not following sports :/
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  122. # [04:33] <@renoirb> Hey mdel
  123. # [04:33] <wilmoore> ptressel: haha!
  124. # [04:33] <ptressel> I don't either really, but this was a special case. ;-)
  125. # [04:33] <@mdel> hey!
  126. # [04:34] <@renoirb> Only good reason to watch sports for me is to drink beer.
  127. # [04:34] <wilmoore> ptressel: yes, special indeed. Sucks to be on this side of it, but it's all good :)
  128. # [04:34] <wilmoore> renoirb: that's a good reason too :)
  129. # [04:34] <ptressel> :D
  130. # [04:34] <@renoirb> Love strong beers.
  131. # [04:34] <ptressel> I tend to cheer for both sides...gets me in trouble sometimes.
  132. # [04:35] <@renoirb> hahaha: Cheering for both sides!
  133. # [04:35] <wilmoore> ptressel: haha, yeah, I can imagine.
  134. # [04:35] <ptressel> Well, if someone makes a good play...
  135. # [04:35] <@renoirb> A good play is a good play indeed!
  136. # [04:36] <ptressel> So...back on that Google Custom Search thing...
  137. # [04:38] <ptressel> Is not hitting MDN too hard the biggest concern?
  138. # [04:38] <ptressel> Or is the top issue that we might not have all compat tables?
  139. # [04:39] <ptressel> Or is it fetching fresh copies of changed pages?
  140. # [04:39] <@renoirb> we want to get as much data as possible. The scraper is doing a good job at finding compat table and serializing it
  141. # [04:39] <@renoirb> no. its not meant to be used on a regular basis.
  142. # [04:40] <@renoirb> We'll eventually phase out the scraper and build compat table from tests data
  143. # [04:40] <wilmoore> renoirb: from test data? sounds interesting!
  144. # [04:41] <@renoirb> E.g. from http://testthewebforward.org/ and/or http://w3c-test.org/
  145. # [04:41] <ptressel> Beat me to that url...
  146. # [04:41] <@renoirb> Hell yeah wilmoore that's why I think you might like it
  147. # [04:41] <wilmoore> renoirb: kinda loving it so far...great looking site.
  148. # [04:41] <ptressel> Speaking of...I haven't heard an update on where new JS tests should go.
  149. # [04:41] <@renoirb> Ambition is that we feed actual browser feature support for all browsers.
  150. # [04:42] <@renoirb> I cannot tell, look at the 'public-testtwf' ML, i think.
  151. # [04:43] <@renoirb> We had tobie_ who worked hard on this in the last year
  152. # [04:43] <ptressel> At the last hackathon, there still wasn't a decision on what directory structure to use for the new tests.
  153. # [04:44] <ptressel> Was he at the Seattle hackathon?
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  155. # [04:44] <@renoirb> wilmoore, in case you haven't found the github repo about that: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests
  156. # [04:44] <wilmoore> renoirb: thanks.
  157. # [04:45] <@renoirb> I'm not an expert on the topic though, wilmoore, you should ask my boss shepazu (he doesn't like me calling that)
  158. # [04:46] <wilmoore> renoirb: haha
  159. # [04:46] <@shepazu> ask me what?
  160. # [04:47] <@renoirb> ohai!
  161. # [04:47] <ptressel> where the js tests should go? --or-- what's the main issue for the compatibility importer?
  162. # [04:47] <@renoirb> Hey, meet wilmoore, he likes the testthewebforward project and the compat tables.
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  165. # [04:47] <@renoirb> wait, ptressel, the js tests you were talking about are about testing the mdn-compat-importer?
  166. # [04:48] <ptressel> No, that was TTWF
  167. # [04:48] <@renoirb> ok.
  168. # [04:48] <ptressel> I was writing floating point testrs
  169. # [04:48] <wilmoore> hi shepazu
  170. # [04:49] <@shepazu> hi, wilmoore
  171. # [04:49] <@renoirb> The compat importer is a workbench to import, convert, and eventually merge data from various sources.
  172. # [04:49] <@renoirb> ptressel: ^ (but you know that)
  173. # [04:49] <@shepazu> renoirb, I wonder if we could just ask the MDN folks for a data dump? that might be easier...
  174. # [04:50] <ptressel> And I'm still trying to tease out what the actual issue is in https://github.com/webplatform/mdn-compat-importer/issues/3 if it's not that we might be missing some pages.
  175. # [04:50] <@renoirb> Let's just ask them during the Stewards telcon
  176. # [04:50] <@renoirb> shepazu: ^
  177. # [04:50] <ptressel> Yep, and then scrape those.
  178. # [04:50] <@renoirb> I thought it was out of question
  179. # [04:50] <@shepazu> renoirb, I'll ask janet
  180. # [04:50] <ptressel> So...Google Custom Search...?
  181. # [04:50] <@shepazu> I don't think it's out of the question
  182. # [04:51] <@shepazu> brb
  183. # [04:51] <@renoirb> the actual issue in #3 ptressel is that kuma has a limitation in its pager, making our data incomplete
  184. # [04:51] <ptressel> kuma is...?
  185. # [04:51] <@renoirb> if we could get a data dump from them. It would make it irrelevant.
  186. # [04:51] <@renoirb> kuma is the name of the software running developer.mozilla.org
  187. # [04:51] <@renoirb> https://github.com/mozilla/kuma ^
  188. # [04:52] <ptressel> Aha!
  189. # [04:52] <ptressel> Ok. So it is completeness.
  190. # [04:52] <ptressel> So Google Custom Search is a way to avoid the tag feed.
  191. # [04:52] <ptressel> Another way (sorry, but have to mention this for completeness) is to do an actual crawl.
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  193. # [04:53] <@renoirb> The ideal would be you crawl once, it takes some time. Then with that data you can work on conversion.
  194. # [04:54] <ptressel> The relevant pages are linked explicitly, not just via (say) a text search box.
  195. # [04:54] <@renoirb> yeah, explicitly.
  196. # [04:54] <ptressel> Yes, and can do all the polite things like crawling slowly, querying page changed, etc.
  197. # [04:54] <ptressel> (I also used to work on web crawl scheduling...)
  198. # [04:55] <ptressel> ( == deciding which pages to crawl, and at what frequency)
  199. # [04:55] <@renoirb> I dont have that kind of experience.
  200. # [04:56] <ptressel> Could add those to mdn-compat-importer
  201. # [04:57] <ptressel> It would be an alternative to the tag request. And it would not have to fetch any page that was already cached, where the cache had the most recent version.
  202. # [04:57] <ptressel> That would not use the Google Custom Search trick...
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  204. # [04:58] <ptressel> There's at least one high-performance open-source crawler, nutch -- we could look at their procedure for not over-crawling and do the same.
  205. # [04:58] <ptressel> Oh, and I should saw, we would also obey robots.txt
  206. # [04:59] <ptressel> brb...
  207. # [05:01] <@renoirb> Yeah, that makes sense ptressel
  208. # [05:01] <@renoirb> But we are allowed to use the data from MDN anyway.
  209. # [05:06] <wilmoore> Thanks renoirb and ptressel -- I'll continue looking around and figure out where I can help. off to get some sleep now :)
  210. # [05:06] <@shepazu> back
  211. # [05:06] <@renoirb> cool wilmoore, do not hesitate. If you want, you are welcome in the community meetings
  212. # [05:06] <@renoirb> or to stick on irc during them.
  213. # [05:06] <@renoirb> wb shepazu
  214. # [05:06] <wilmoore> renoirb: great...I'll definitely poke my nose in there :)
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  218. # [05:06] <@shepazu> welcome, wilmoore :)
  219. # [05:06] <wilmoore> shepazu: thanks :)
  220. # [05:06] <@renoirb> In case you dont know, we'll have a docsprint during Fluent
  221. # [05:07] <@renoirb> just dropping that in case, wilmoore, have a good rest
  222. # [05:07] <@renoirb> (I dont recall the details, I won't be there)
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  224. # [05:10] <@renoirb> lets see what happens ptressel with the request shepazu will make with MDN.
  225. # [05:10] <@renoirb> I'm going to sleep now.
  226. # [05:10] <@shepazu> nn
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  228. # [05:21] <ptressel> Good night, renoirb!
  229. # [05:23] <ptressel> Good night, wilmoore!
  230. # [05:38] <ptressel> shepazu, maybe ask the MDN folks if we could get a dump of the *database* from which the pages are generated, rather than the generated pages.
  231. # [05:38] <ptressel> Simpler for them...
  232. # [05:38] <@shepazu> ptressel, yup
  233. # [05:38] <ptressel> Then we can just do database queries.
  234. # [05:38] <ptressel> IIRC they said the info was in a database.
  235. # [05:38] <@shepazu> ptressel, I suspect that the markup is actually stored in the db
  236. # [05:39] <@shepazu> but either way
  237. # [05:39] <ptressel> I mean, it's not static pages.
  238. # [05:39] <ptressel> Could be, as not all the tables are uniform.
  239. # [05:39] <ptressel> It's just likely a *lot* easier for them to dump the db...
  240. # [05:40] <ptressel> And we can read the kuma model / schema.
  241. # [05:41] <@shepazu> yup
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  340. # [16:21] <@renoirb> ohai sekhmetdesign
  341. # [16:21] <@renoirb> !
  342. # [16:22] <SekhmetDesign> hello renoirb :D
  343. # [16:23] <@renoirb> So, how many coffees this morning?
  344. # [16:23] <SekhmetDesign> right now...only 2 huge cups :P
  345. # [16:24] <@renoirb> I should make another one myself
  346. # [16:24] <@renoirb> i'm at 1
  347. # [16:24] <SekhmetDesign> I still have a big pot of coffee waiting to be emptied
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  349. # [16:26] <@renoirb> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+RenoirBoulanger/posts/Fc8JUKzVrbL sekhmetdesig ^
  350. # [16:27] <SekhmetDesign> heheh
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  358. # [17:31] <@Garbee> frozenice: Have you done something to speed up the bot getting edit notifications?
  359. # [17:31] <@Garbee> Because it has been instant lately and I recall it taking a minute or two a few months ago.
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  372. # [18:14] <@frozenice> Garbee: nope, still polling every 30 sec and announcing 1 line per 5 sec
  373. # [18:16] <@Garbee> hm, then maybe it is just the request is in and processed and my refresh is just taking a while.
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  433. # Session Close: Tue Mar 11 00:00:00 2014

The end :)