/irc-logs / freenode / #webplatform / 2014-04-18 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Apr 18 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #webplatform
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  12. # [00:48] <kiy> all is well Garbee
  13. # [00:48] <@Garbee> ah, already lurking.
  14. # [00:48] <@Garbee> ;)
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  22. # [01:07] <@Garbee> So... Should we have security information in the docs? i.e. Like the Security warning of HTTP vs HTTPS in the remarks section of html/elements/form. ( http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/html/elements/form )
  23. # [01:08] <@Garbee> I'm thinking, we can dump that. It is something you will pick up if you start messing with a backend at all for submitting stuff to.
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  29. # [01:48] <tandroid> Do you need a different login for editing docs than you do for just adding comments and whatnot on webplatform.org?
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  38. # [02:33] <@shepazu> tandroid, we're working hard on doing single sign-on to give you one login
  39. # [02:34] <tandroid> shepazu, awesome, I was just using the sidebar and it wasn't working but I figured it out.
  40. # [02:34] <@shepazu> tandroid, sorry, that's sorta transitional :P
  41. # [02:35] <tandroid> No worries, the whole thing is a work in progress right?
  42. # [02:35] <@shepazu> heh, some parts more than others
  43. # [02:35] <tandroid> I just heard about it today but I love the idea
  44. # [02:35] <@shepazu> :D
  45. # [02:36] <@shepazu> tandroid, where'd you hear about us?
  46. # [02:37] <tandroid> #web channel
  47. # [02:37] <tandroid> Somebody was talking about adding an article
  48. # [02:37] <tandroid> or three I believe :)
  49. # [02:38] <@shepazu> ya!
  50. # [02:39] <@shepazu> yay!
  51. # [02:39] <tandroid> I just wish I was smarter so I could contribute more haha
  52. # [02:40] <@Garbee> tandroid: That would be me editing things. :P
  53. # [02:40] <@Garbee> Thanks for coming on over!
  54. # [02:41] <tandroid> Ah yeah it was you
  55. # [02:41] <tandroid> Happy to help if I can!
  56. # [02:41] <@Garbee> Good, we need lots of it.
  57. # [02:41] <@Garbee> What are you comfortable with in web development?
  58. # [02:42] <tandroid> CSS mostly. I wouldn't call myself an expert in anything else really
  59. # [02:42] <tandroid> But I feel like that's what most people are good at
  60. # [02:42] <@Garbee> Well, plenty of stuff to still be done there (although the CSS Properties are pretty well covered already.)
  61. # [02:42] <@Garbee> Most people good at CSS?
  62. # [02:43] <@Garbee> You crazy.
  63. # [02:43] <kiy> added to autojoin garbee
  64. # [02:43] <tandroid> Garbee, well that's true. But I would say more people are good at CSS than JavaScript
  65. # [02:43] <kiy> ofc
  66. # [02:43] <@Garbee> Sure. Most people can get around.
  67. # [02:43] <@Garbee> Layouts still a PITA. :P
  68. # [02:44] <@shepazu> flexbox ftw!
  69. # [02:44] <@Garbee> Sadly, I think most people are better at CSS than HTML.
  70. # [02:44] <@Garbee> shepazu: Not for full page layouts yet. Bad performance. :(
  71. # [02:45] <@Garbee> (trying to find the post on it.)
  72. # [02:45] <@shepazu> Garbee, maybe our pages should include perf impact, in addition to browser support?
  73. # [02:46] <@Garbee> http://jakearchibald.com/2014/dont-use-flexbox-for-page-layout/
  74. # [02:46] <@Garbee> Um, that would be hard.
  75. # [02:46] <@Garbee> Because perf impact depends on *how* you use it.
  76. # [02:47] <tandroid> shepazu, there should be a section on "What not to do"
  77. # [02:47] <tandroid> That would be a long section haha
  78. # [02:47] <tandroid> Nevermind, bad idea
  79. # [02:47] <kiy> ugh that guy's blog
  80. # [02:47] <@Garbee> What not to do can be made as-needed.
  81. # [02:47] <kiy> LOOK AT MEHH IM ORANGE
  82. # [02:47] <@Garbee> kiy: What? Bad design?
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  84. # [02:48] * @Garbee tends to ignore any design if the content is good enough.
  85. # [02:48] <kiy> i can't ignore it when the header is so orange
  86. # [02:48] <kiy> very contrast
  87. # [02:48] <kiy> wow
  88. # [02:48] <kiy> almost looks like it's floating
  89. # [02:49] <@Garbee> tandroid: How are you with actual informative/general writing? i.e. Writing full articles explaining a topic.
  90. # [02:50] <@Garbee> (Don't worry though, what I have in mind right now you won't be *fully* writing stuff. Just going through and fixing pre-existing stuff up.)
  91. # [02:50] <tandroid> Garbee: To be honest, I don't really know because I haven't written much.
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  93. # [02:52] <tandroid> I wouldn't mind doing that kind of stuff
  94. # [02:52] <@Garbee> Take a look at the CSS Tutorials: http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/css/tutorials
  95. # [02:52] <@Garbee> Some are full imported articles that need to be fixed up.
  96. # [02:52] <@Garbee> Others are just stub placeholders to be filled in.
  97. # [02:52] <@Garbee> (Like Creating CSS Gradients)
  98. # [02:53] <@Garbee> That would be a fantastic place perhaps to get started if you don't feel daunted doing it (since they can get quite detailed.)
  99. # [02:54] <tandroid> Garbee: Alright, I'll take a look and see what I can do.
  100. # [02:54] <@Garbee> and if you want to give a shot at actual technical docs, the functions section needs some TLC: http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/css/functions
  101. # [02:55] <@Garbee> So those are two good places to start out with if you are comfortable with CSS.
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  103. # [02:56] <tandroid> Garbee, great thanks!
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  105. # [02:57] <@Garbee> Functions and other technical docs will probably suite the majority of people better. You can get one done a day (or even one every few days) and would be contributing hugely.
  106. # [03:02] <@Garbee> tandroid: And one final piece of advice for editing, the system is on MediaWiki, so we use Wiki Syntax instead of what most people expect which is Markdown. So if you haven't dealt with the syntax much, here is a good reference: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Formatting
  107. # [03:02] <@Garbee> Sadly we still don't have a WYSIWYG editor in place for content within the template system. :(
  108. # [03:02] <tandroid> Alright, yeah I actually have that link up right now
  109. # [03:03] <@Garbee> I'm personally dragging myself upstairs to bed. So enjoy your editing experience (hopefully) and ask questions if you have any trouble.
  110. # [03:04] <@Garbee> Just know you may need to wait until tomorrow, since the room is pretty dry from now until about 7 or 8AM EST time generally.
  111. # [03:04] <@Garbee> Later.
  112. # [03:11] <tandroid> Alright sounds good. thanks for the info!
  113. # [03:15] <@paul_irish> eliezerb: people keep telling me you're the man.
  114. # [03:15] <@paul_irish> i believe it! :)
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  117. # [03:21] <tandroid> How long has this project been going?
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  122. # [03:47] <+eliezerb> paul_irish: lol
  123. # [03:47] <+eliezerb> paul_irish: Not even close
  124. # [03:49] <@renoirb> I think you did a good job, eliezerb :)
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  126. # [03:52] <+eliezerb> renoirb: I was talking yesterday with julee, and told her that I really can't imagine myself away from WPD
  127. # [03:53] <+eliezerb> renoirb: 24th april will be my one year birthday here
  128. # [03:54] <@renoirb> seriously, that's cool
  129. # [03:54] <@renoirb> Congrats!
  130. # [03:54] <@renoirb> I do not see myself without being invoved in WPD myself either!
  131. # [04:00] <tandroid> Guys, I made my first update. YAY!
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  133. # [04:00] <+eliezerb> renoirb: Do you have any ideia when we could localizate WPD landing page?
  134. # [04:00] <+eliezerb> s/localizate/localize
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  136. # [04:01] <@renoirb> Hey, congrats tandroid! Join the club!
  137. # [04:01] <+eliezerb> tandroid: \o/
  138. # [04:01] <@renoirb> I have this question in mind
  139. # [04:01] <tandroid> Thanks, I just added some flags haha.
  140. # [04:01] <tandroid> Gotta start somewhere!
  141. # [04:01] <+eliezerb> renoirb: Did you see MDN translation platform?
  142. # [04:02] <@renoirb> not much.
  143. # [04:03] <@renoirb> We are moving things toward nodejs and in case of static files too.
  144. # [04:03] <@renoirb> maybe we will have to make a docpad multilingual extension
  145. # [04:03] <@renoirb> in fact it shouldn't be that hard to do.
  146. # [04:03] <+eliezerb> renoirb: nodejs? Wow!
  147. # [04:04] <@renoirb> see: https://github.com/bevry/docpad "Automatically translate your entire website into other languages with our Translation Plugin - under construction, coming soon"
  148. # [04:04] <+eliezerb> renoirb: Sounds good!
  149. # [04:04] <@renoirb> At the moment, i'm working to have SSO
  150. # [04:04] <@renoirb> Look there http://208.113.157.128:3030/signup
  151. # [04:04] <@renoirb> but I have to look for database, how to connect, how to validate, etc.
  152. # [04:04] <@renoirb> and, of course, to theme
  153. # [04:05] <+eliezerb> renoirb: Can I create an account?
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  155. # [04:05] <@renoirb> no
  156. # [04:05] <@renoirb> its only the frontend
  157. # [04:05] <@renoirb> it will fail
  158. # [04:05] <@renoirb> that's what i'm working on.
  159. # [04:05] * Parts: gluxon (~gluxon@unaffiliated/gluxon)
  160. # [04:05] <@renoirb> Also, there's that, that's coming https://ssl.webplatform.org/review/#/q/status:open,n,z
  161. # [04:05] <+eliezerb> renoirb: nice! I'll look aroung about the flags
  162. # [04:06] <@renoirb> but wont be at this address
  163. # [04:06] <+eliezerb> s/aroung/around
  164. # [04:06] <@renoirb> So usual contributors will have access to more private repositories.
  165. # [04:06] <@renoirb> to repositories that has private data
  166. # [04:07] <+eliezerb> renoirb: Looks cool
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  169. # [04:09] <@renoirb> eliezerb have a look at https://github.com/bevry/docpad/issues/17
  170. # [04:12] <+eliezerb> renoirb: This is the same issue that we are having?
  171. # [04:13] <@renoirb> It is about having content in multiple languages
  172. # [04:13] <@renoirb> with docpad, what we are using for the homepage
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  175. # [04:16] <+eliezerb> renoirb: I'll clone https://github.com/webplatform/www.webplatform.org and look the code :)
  176. # [04:16] <+eliezerb> renoirb: Not sure if I can do something, but I can try
  177. # [04:17] <@renoirb> Its javascript!
  178. # [04:17] <@renoirb> Sorry, to be exact, docpad is made in coffeescript
  179. # [04:17] <@renoirb> but extensions can be written in either languages
  180. # [04:18] <+eliezerb> renoirb: So should be easier than SMW
  181. # [04:18] <+eliezerb> lol
  182. # [04:18] <@renoirb> look at http://blog.sapegin.me/all/multilingual-docpad
  183. # [04:18] <@renoirb> make a branch! :)
  184. # [04:19] <@renoirb> Or fork, make a branch, and go ahead!
  185. # [04:19] <+eliezerb> renoirb: I'll do it!
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  193. # [05:45] <Rastus_Vernon> I just realized Web Platform does not support SSL. :o
  194. # [05:45] <Rastus_Vernon> Is that possible?
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  201. # [06:30] <@renoirb> Hey Rastus_Vernon
  202. # [06:30] <@renoirb> yes, i know :)
  203. # [06:30] <@renoirb> Refactor in progress
  204. # [06:31] <@renoirb> Its more than one web server setup and it wasn't the priority when it was built.
  205. # [06:32] <@renoirb> I'm going to bed Rastus_Vernon, i'll be back online in about 9 hours. TTYL, you are free to hang around :)
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  323. # [19:49] <@renoirb> Hi tandroid :)
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  326. # [19:52] <@Garbee> renoirb: Looks like I finally have a stable Elastic Search node running.
  327. # [19:53] <@Garbee> Only took a clean install on Ubuntu 14.04 to make it happen. :P
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  329. # [19:54] <@renoirb> We do have elasticsearch running, btw
  330. # [19:54] <@Garbee> Cool.
  331. # [19:55] <@Garbee> I just could never get even that running locally (and stabily) to help dev with.
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  333. # [19:55] <@renoirb> from deployment, you can curl to elastic2
  334. # [19:55] <@renoirb> also, i'm working on sandbox vm called auth2
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  336. # [19:56] <@renoirb> You should have a look at https://github.com/webplatform/saltyvagrant-mediawiki
  337. # [19:57] <@renoirb> and add a line in salt/states/dev-environment/init.sls
  338. # [19:58] <@renoirb> add a file from deployment:/srv/salt/elasticsearch/init.sls into saltyvagrant-mediawiki checkout at salt/states/dev-environment/whatever.sls
  339. # [19:59] <@renoirb> Then, in salt/states/dev-environment/init.sls, add a line in the import list "- dev-environment.whatever"
  340. # [19:59] <@renoirb> That's why I'm creating those VM, Garbee, so you do not lose time to setup :)
  341. # [20:00] <@Garbee> Well, I was just trying to get ES running so I could setup and do some testing between it and MW. But, I could never get ES running for more than a few minutes before it either started hammering my CPU for some reason or just outright crashing.
  342. # [20:00] <@renoirb> sure.
  343. # [20:00] <@Garbee> tbh, I'm not too worried about the backend stuff anymore.
  344. # [20:00] <@renoirb> Have a look at https://github.com/webplatform/mediawiki
  345. # [20:01] <@renoirb> I documented how to create a completely local VM with MediaWiki.
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  347. # [20:01] <@renoirb> its up to you :)
  348. # [20:01] <@Garbee> yea, I saw that a few days ago.
  349. # [20:01] <@Garbee> ntm, I really hate vagrant. :P Keeps getting in my way more than it helps.
  350. # [20:01] <@renoirb> I'm just saying that you can now use this instead. Maybe your feelings would be different if you hadn't got frustrated with the sysadmin stuff :)
  351. # [20:01] * Joins: tandroid (~tandroid@c-24-8-81-118.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
  352. # [20:01] <@Garbee> However, I bet you already have what gives me a headace figured out.
  353. # [20:02] <tandroid> renoirb, hey!
  354. # [20:02] <@Garbee> I was frustrated with a lot of different little things. It just all piled up and I just kindof imploded mentally.
  355. # [20:02] <@Garbee> And quite a bit of it wasn't even WPD stuff.
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  358. # [20:07] <@Garbee> I swear I need to lock the beginner's guide page.
  359. # [20:08] <@Garbee> This is like the 6th time I need to go remove Sublime Text from the list of *FREE* editors because it isn't free.
  360. # [20:08] <tandroid> Garbee, I noticed that
  361. # [20:08] <tandroid> I thought it was odd that it was on the list, I guess I should have done something about it haha
  362. # [20:09] <@Garbee> and why didn't I get an email about the edit?
  363. # [20:09] <@Garbee> I am watching the page.
  364. # [20:09] <@Garbee> tandroid: It's fine. I'm just annoyed people keep throwing it out as free.
  365. # [20:09] <@Garbee> It clearly isn't free if you abide by the license.
  366. # [20:09] <tandroid> Yeah, it's basically encouraging people to abuse that free trial
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  368. # [20:10] <@Garbee> Honestly in my rewrite structure, I'm planning on just saying "Start with Brackets"
  369. # [20:10] <@Garbee> It is cross-platform, and freaking awesome.
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  371. # [20:10] <@Garbee> People can then go research out from there if they want to find something else.
  372. # [20:10] <tandroid> But... the counter to that is that it maybe helps people too much
  373. # [20:11] <@Garbee> That is a problem how?
  374. # [20:11] <@Garbee> They need to get used to proper tools.
  375. # [20:11] <tandroid> I stuck to text wrangler and notepad++ because it taught me to double check that I was always remembering closing braces, brackets, etc
  376. # [20:11] <tandroid> Not saying that's the best route, but I thought it was good for me
  377. # [20:11] <@Garbee> It is different for everyone.
  378. # [20:12] <@Garbee> Just like closing optional element closures. All up to how you want to do it.
  379. # [20:12] <tandroid> Exactly
  380. # [20:12] <@Garbee> I'd rather introduce people right away to proper tooling, so they get a feel for what it is like in the real world (unless you *want* to not have the aids.)
  381. # [20:12] <tandroid> Garbee, true.
  382. # [20:13] <tandroid> But some people coming from other programming languages might find it annoying
  383. # [20:13] <@Garbee> "Beginner's Guide"
  384. # [20:13] <tandroid> Although they would already have an editor...
  385. # [20:13] <@Garbee> I'm assuming no programming knowledge.
  386. # [20:13] <tandroid> yeah
  387. # [20:13] <@Garbee> This is the, you haven't written code before ever. Let's start.
  388. # [20:13] <@Garbee> guide to the web.
  389. # [20:14] <tandroid> True
  390. # [20:14] <tandroid> Less options does make the decision easier too
  391. # [20:15] <@Garbee> It also makes for more straightforward writing.
  392. # [20:15] <@Garbee> And over time people will remember the basic structures and rules.
  393. # [20:15] <tandroid> Yeah and screenshots would be consistent
  394. # [20:15] <@Garbee> No need to start them out forcing them to remember it all right away.
  395. # [20:16] <tandroid> Yeah it's probably better to introduce them to those tools
  396. # [20:16] <tandroid> I was thinking about it, I wonder if it would be good to include some practice debuging scenarios
  397. # [20:16] <@Garbee> Intro to debugging would be its own guide.
  398. # [20:16] <tandroid> So you give them a site and they have to debug the issue with dev tools
  399. # [20:16] <tandroid> Right
  400. # [20:17] <tandroid> There is a debugging tools section, but there is so much to debugging
  401. # [20:17] <@Garbee> Well, it would be interesting in how it is done.
  402. # [20:17] <@Garbee> I'd love to setup something like this: http://teamtreehouse.com/library/website-optimization where we have a plugin to the dev tools that people install so we can verify they are using the tools properly.
  403. # [20:18] <@Garbee> But, that is a highly intricate system.
  404. # [20:18] <@Garbee> Right now though, we need to focus on just getting things cleaned up and more cohesive.
  405. # [20:18] <tandroid> For sure
  406. # [20:18] <tandroid> I'm sure there are a lot of great ideas going around
  407. # [20:20] <@Garbee> One idea I'd love to see through is certification.
  408. # [20:20] <@Garbee> Actual verified certs for web dev.
  409. # [20:21] <@Garbee> But, that isn't viable in the slightest until the content is gone over.
  410. # [20:21] <@Garbee> Then there are quite a few other educational related things I'd love to work on.
  411. # [20:21] <@Garbee> But once again, without the docs to link to...
  412. # [20:21] <@Garbee> :/
  413. # [20:22] <tandroid> Right. It will take time.
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  415. # [20:25] <@renoirb> back
  416. # [20:26] <@renoirb> lets lock the page beginers gide Garbee
  417. # [20:26] <@Garbee> nah. I'll just keep an eye on it.
  418. # [20:27] <@Garbee> If someone wants to work on fixing it up/rewriting it they can while I am busy.
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  420. # [20:27] <@Garbee> I'd just love for true "editors notes" where we can comment on that section in the template so only people on the edit page would see it. So we could have a clear notice to not put ST (or other paid editors) in that list.
  421. # [20:27] <@renoirb> to tell you Garbee, If you follow my procedures given at webplatform/saltyvagrant-mediawiki, and webplatform/mediawiki, you will have WebPlatform Docs from your own local VM from Vagrant's IP (e.g. 10.10.11.5) and your computer hosts file would use docs.webplatform.local
  422. # [20:28] <@renoirb> The latest MW that is
  423. # [20:28] <@Garbee> btw, did my mess of a Captcha ever get switched out for recaptcha?
  424. # [20:28] <@renoirb> i haven't touched anything about captcha
  425. # [20:28] <@Garbee> kk.
  426. # [20:29] <@Garbee> I may look into switching us over then. that should be a simple thing to do.
  427. # [20:29] <@Garbee> Just removing my custom code and putting in some recaptcha API keys (which I guess you or Doug would need to get from the recaptcha site.)
  428. # [20:30] <@Garbee> That won't take but a few minutes and make the captcha system a little more solid.
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  431. # [20:36] <@shepazu> reping
  432. # [20:36] <@shepazu> renoirb, ping
  433. # [20:36] <@renoirb> shepazu pong
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  442. # [20:56] <@renoirb> https://accounts.webplatform.org/signup
  443. # [20:58] <@Ryan_Lane> renoirb: is webplatform switching to firefox accounts?
  444. # [20:58] <@renoirb> testing.
  445. # [20:58] <@Ryan_Lane> what are firefox accounts anyway
  446. # [20:58] <@Ryan_Lane> ?
  447. # [20:58] <@Ryan_Lane> ah. I see a blog post for it
  448. # [20:59] <@Ryan_Lane> heh. it doesn't really describe how it works much :)
  449. # [20:59] <@Ryan_Lane> it's too bad they deprecated persona
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  503. # [23:13] <@renoirb> Sorry Ryan_Lane yt
  504. # [23:13] <@renoirb> ?
  505. # [23:13] <@renoirb> No they dont describe how it works :(
  506. # [23:13] <@renoirb> But they are helpful on their channel
  507. # [23:14] <@renoirb> Basically its three components: Contents, Auth backend, + extensions
  508. # [23:14] <@renoirb> extensions can be OAuth, Persona, etc.
  509. # [23:14] <@renoirb> They also have i18n support
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  511. # [23:25] <@Garbee> With our example code, do we want to always show the doctype/title so it is valid?
  512. # [23:25] <@Garbee> i.e. http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/html/attributes/alt The example here is missing that.
  513. # [23:26] <@Garbee> One of the complaints with W3Schools was that their examples were not complete valid code, which confused beginners.
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  518. # [23:33] <@Garbee> renoirb: I just added an HTML comment in the list explaining what not to add. hopefully people will read it and obey.
  519. # [23:33] <@renoirb> Asking to obey :/
  520. # [23:33] <@renoirb> lets see :)
  521. # [23:34] <@Garbee> Yea, if someone blows it off and just throws it in again, then I'll just lock it until it is redone.
  522. # [23:34] <@Garbee> Hopefully that comment is clear enough though.
  523. # [23:34] <@Garbee> I also removed vim/emacs. They aren't beginner level editors.
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  527. # [23:54] <Bad_Advice_Cat> Garbee, Gedit!! :D
  528. # [23:54] <@Garbee> Bad_Advice_Cat: Your nick says it all.
  529. # [23:54] <Bad_Advice_Cat> :D
  530. # [23:55] <kiy> gedit sucks
  531. # [23:55] <kiy> geany is better
  532. # [23:55] <kiy> vim is supreme
  533. # [23:55] <@Garbee> +1 to vim
  534. # [23:55] <@Garbee> Just not for beginners. ;)
  535. # [23:55] <Bad_Advice_Cat> kiy, yea, the point is that it's noobtastic.
  536. # [23:56] <kiy> Bad_Advice_Cat, upgrade to geany
  537. # [23:56] <kiy> it's really nice
  538. # [23:56] <Bad_Advice_Cat> geany is fine too.
  539. # [23:56] <Bad_Advice_Cat> I use phpstorm/komodo. Sometimes nano. Thought gedit is fine enough for html/javascript/css.
  540. # [23:57] <Bad_Advice_Cat> And kate/leafpad for different flavored distros.
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  542. # [23:59] <@renoirb> I use sed!
  543. # [23:59] <@renoirb> ...kidding
  544. # [23:59] <@Garbee> lmao
  545. # Session Close: Sat Apr 19 00:00:00 2014

The end :)