/irc-logs / freenode / #webplatform / 2014-04-20 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sun Apr 20 00:00:01 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #webplatform
  3. # [00:05] * Joins: morficus (~morficus@108-205-132-58.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net)
  4. # [00:06] <@renoirb> frozenice yt?
  5. # [00:06] <@frozenice> hi!
  6. # [00:07] <@renoirb> hi!
  7. # [00:07] <@renoirb> i'm reading on nginx proxying stuff
  8. # [00:07] <@renoirb> thanks for your help :_
  9. # [00:07] <@renoirb> :)
  10. # [00:07] <@frozenice> aye
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  12. # [00:08] <@renoirb> oh right. I just realized something
  13. # [00:08] <@renoirb> it is using nginx 1.1.19
  14. # [00:09] <@renoirb> i just imported latest ubuntu 14.04 LTS, lets' upgrade the NGINX stack
  15. # [00:09] <@frozenice> sounds like a plan
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  17. # [00:15] <@renoirb> It was in the article here that hinted me
  18. # [00:15] <@renoirb> https://chrislea.com/2013/02/23/proxying-websockets-with-nginx/
  19. # [00:15] <@renoirb> The guys at hypothesis told me that it might be better upgrading anyway
  20. # [00:15] <@renoirb> I was wondering.
  21. # [00:16] <@renoirb> wait. taking screenshot
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  23. # [00:17] <@frozenice> I think we thought about upgrading nginx last time :)
  24. # [00:17] <@renoirb> frozenice is this what you were talking about http://imgur.com/kfdhSDG
  25. # [00:17] <@renoirb> i mean, where you were finding the error message?
  26. # [00:17] <@frozenice> yup
  27. # [00:17] <@renoirb> ok. gotcha.
  28. # [00:17] <@renoirb> lets upgrade nginx and hopefully this will go away
  29. # [00:17] <@frozenice> not that message but that place
  30. # [00:17] <@renoirb> sure.
  31. # [00:18] <@renoirb> i just re-tried with the documentation http://nginx.org/en/docs/http/websocket.html
  32. # [00:18] <@renoirb> and it gives that error
  33. # [00:18] <@renoirb> but i must have the wrong version
  34. # [00:18] <@frozenice> ah ok
  35. # [00:18] <@renoirb> for example, at https://ssl.webplatform.org/ I can now support spd
  36. # [00:18] <@renoirb> spdy
  37. # [00:18] <@renoirb> ideally i'd like to have spdy everywhere.
  38. # [00:19] <@frozenice> did you just put that comment in sites-enabled/default or has that been there already?
  39. # [00:19] <@renoirb> uhm
  40. # [00:19] <@renoirb> on which node?
  41. # [00:19] <@renoirb> notes1?
  42. # [00:19] <@frozenice> notes1
  43. # [00:19] <@renoirb> yes just did
  44. # [00:19] <@frozenice> ok :)
  45. # [00:19] <@renoirb> in fact i have a vim session and i trigger undo
  46. # [00:19] <@renoirb> ok
  47. # [00:20] <@renoirb> i'm building notes2 with trusty-cloudimg
  48. # [00:22] <@renoirb> btw, frozenice, did you see https://accounts.webplatform.org ?
  49. # [00:23] <@frozenice> I read the chat but haven't taken a closer look yet
  50. # [00:23] <@renoirb> its a PoC
  51. # [00:24] <@renoirb> Its Firefox Accounts code, it is only for login, it provides all lost password, create account. We will be able to add OAuth to it and profiles.
  52. # [00:25] <@renoirb> So my plan is to migrate account data from MediaWiki, attempt to reproduce password validation in nodejs.
  53. # [00:25] <@frozenice> yay NodeJS :)
  54. # [00:26] <@renoirb> JavaScript all the things!
  55. # [00:26] <@frozenice> !
  56. # [00:26] <@frozenice> or, optionally, CS
  57. # [00:26] <@renoirb> as in C# ?
  58. # [00:26] <@frozenice> nah that's C#
  59. # [00:26] <@frozenice> CS!
  60. # [00:26] <@renoirb> Computer Science?
  61. # [00:26] <@frozenice> CoffeeScript :P
  62. # [00:26] <@renoirb> OH!!
  63. # [00:27] <@renoirb> right :)
  64. # [00:27] <@renoirb> In fact, Mozilla #fxa team is currently working on an OAuth extension
  65. # [00:27] <@renoirb> (sorry, pasted what I was saying before you said "CS")
  66. # [00:28] <@frozenice> np, I was done ;)
  67. # [00:28] <@Garbee> renoirb: doesn't look *too* difficult. It is only MD5 hashes for the content. The only issue might be " pseudo-random hexadecimal 31-bit salt between 0x0 and 0x7fff ffff (inclusive) "
  68. # [00:29] <@renoirb> yup Garbee. I just hadn't had time to start working on it.
  69. # [00:29] <@Garbee> But, that does show we obviously need to verify, then rehash into more secure passwords if we are going through the effort to move the user system out.
  70. # [00:30] <@renoirb> An alternate plan is to make a silent transition behind the scene when an user logs in.
  71. # [00:30] <@renoirb> But, i'm not there yet.
  72. # [00:30] <@Garbee> yea that is what I meant.
  73. # [00:30] <@Garbee> verify (i.e. on login) then re-hash as needed.
  74. # [00:30] <@Garbee> While the password is still up in plain-text for the session.
  75. # [00:30] <@renoirb> I'm mostly working on SSO... and moving away from MW. For the account system at least.
  76. # [00:31] <@Garbee> Surprisingly , the language we are moving from has implemented this stuff perfectly.
  77. # [00:31] <@Garbee> ;)
  78. # [00:31] <@renoirb> If we have separate account mechanism with some delegation (OAuth) and SSO. We will be able to connect all our other tools based on that service.
  79. # [00:31] <@renoirb> ... you know, frozenice, SOA :)
  80. # [00:32] <@frozenice> "there's a NodeJS module for that", should be a slogan...
  81. # [00:32] <@renoirb> what is slogan?
  82. # [00:33] <@frozenice> some big smartphone company used "there's an app for that" some time ago :)
  83. # [00:33] <@renoirb> Here's one of the issues Mozilla people are working ATM https://github.com/mozilla/fxa-oauth-server/issues/7
  84. # [00:33] <@renoirb> oh! yeah. But i was refering to the Service Oriented Architecture.
  85. # [00:34] <@renoirb> Not only the buzzword. But the concept that you have loosely coupled components that are experts in their own and others can rely on.
  86. # [00:34] <@frozenice> yeah I was responding to Garbee's comment :>
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  88. # [00:39] <@renoirb> hi ckwalsh
  89. # [00:39] <@renoirb> (statiscally speaking, when somebody joins, there's more chance to get an answer)
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  92. # [00:40] <@Garbee> renoirb: Unless they hate you, then you get golden silence. ;)
  93. # [00:41] <@Garbee> haha
  94. # [00:41] <@renoirb> In my experience, you /know/ when somebody hates you
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  98. # [01:02] <@frozenice> I'm off, keep me posted on the websocket progress renoirb :)
  99. # [01:06] <@renoirb> ok frozenice have a good one.
  100. # [01:06] <@renoirb> i have to adjust things. ubuntu 12.04 to 14.04 must have things changed.
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  117. # [02:45] * Joins: Rastus_Vernon (uid15187@wikimedia/Rastus-Vernon)
  118. # [02:48] <Rastus_Vernon> I am surprised Web Platform gets so many user account creations and development but so few content contributions.
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  120. # [02:48] <Rastus_Vernon> It seems from the recent changes that three accounts are created for every page edit or creation.
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  122. # [03:01] <@renoirb> Hi Rastus_Vernon
  123. # [03:01] <Rastus_Vernon> Hello.
  124. # [03:02] <@renoirb> I saw your question a few days ago about the non ssl on the site.
  125. # [03:02] <@renoirb> I know, we think that there are a lot of spambots.
  126. # [03:02] <Rastus_Vernon> It just seems the interface and everything keep changing, as if it got a lot of development activity, which is surprising considering the lack of activity concerning the content.
  127. # [03:03] <@renoirb> What are you talking about, in: 'the interface and everything keep changing'
  128. # [03:03] <Rastus_Vernon> Well, for example, it seems hypothes.is was recently added to the site.
  129. # [03:03] <Rastus_Vernon> I know the homepage has changed many times too.
  130. # [03:03] <@renoirb> yes, indeed.
  131. # [03:03] <Rastus_Vernon> And it seems there is a pretty developed infrastructure for improving the site in general.
  132. # [03:04] <@renoirb> In fact I just upgraded the notes.webplatform.org webserver to have better WebSocket support
  133. # [03:04] <Rastus_Vernon> Meanwhile, the content addition activity is very slow.
  134. # [03:04] <@renoirb> I know.
  135. # [03:04] <Rastus_Vernon> It seems as if there was more development than content creation. There’s nothing wrong with that, it just seems surprising.
  136. # [03:04] <@renoirb> I'd like to contribute to the doc, but maintaining and improving takes all my work time and free time.
  137. # [03:05] <Rastus_Vernon> Usually, wikis have hundreds times more contributors than developers. This one just seems a bit different, and that surprises m.
  138. # [03:05] <Rastus_Vernon> I’d probably contribute if I could find my way around Semantic MediaWiki.
  139. # [03:05] <@renoirb> WebPlatform is not yet 2 years old, see.
  140. # [03:06] <@renoirb> To have a community of contributors takes some time
  141. # [03:06] <Rastus_Vernon> Indeed. I remember seeing a message about it on Twitter on the day of its release.
  142. # [03:06] <Rastus_Vernon> I joined this channel and saw two people joining the channel every second…
  143. # [03:06] <@renoirb> As contributor, we should not worry about SMW, just the content.
  144. # [03:07] <@renoirb> I think that many people likes the idea but are waiting that it gets bigger before diving in
  145. # [03:07] <Rastus_Vernon> I discovered three interesting projects from Web Platform: Dabblet, hypothes.is and -prefix-free.
  146. # [03:08] <@renoirb> hypothesis is not from us directly. We are just working together to provide annotations for the W3C.
  147. # [03:08] <Rastus_Vernon> I know.
  148. # [03:08] <@renoirb> ok
  149. # [03:08] <Rastus_Vernon> I just happen to have discovered these projects from there.
  150. # [03:09] <Rastus_Vernon> The website seems more than sufficiently mature to me, but I am surprised it doesn’t have more active contributors, considering how active MDN is.
  151. # [03:09] <@renoirb> You are free to hang around here, you could meet the other common people around.
  152. # [03:10] <@renoirb> Not to forget that MDN's parent entity is one of our Stewards.
  153. # [03:13] <Rastus_Vernon> I’m just surprised that despite all the doc sprints, all the interest and all the development, there are few contributions. It just goes against what I’d expect.
  154. # [03:14] <@renoirb> :/
  155. # [03:14] <@renoirb> i have the same feeling.
  156. # [03:14] <Rastus_Vernon> Everyone is excited about it, many editors have extensions for Web Platform or even integrate support for documentation from it directly.
  157. # [03:14] <Rastus_Vernon> There are 3623852 posts on the blog about all sorts of doc sprints.
  158. # [03:15] <@renoirb> hahaha
  159. # [03:15] <Rastus_Vernon> The project has its own GitHub repositories, MediaWiki skin, project dashboard, etc. (compare with MDN, or MSDN, or W3Schools, or the others)
  160. # [03:15] <Rastus_Vernon> It has a lot of help pages, and a lot of work has clearly been spent customizing the skin of every single piece of software used thoroughly.
  161. # [03:16] <Rastus_Vernon> And yet… absolutely nobody contributes, despite all the usefulness and interest that there seems to be in this website, despite the stewards, etc.?
  162. # [03:16] <Rastus_Vernon> It’s just surprising.
  163. # [03:17] <@renoirb> ...
  164. # [03:17] <@renoirb> yep.
  165. # [03:17] <@renoirb> Yet, we have hopes.
  166. # [03:18] <Rastus_Vernon> It’s not that helping is too difficult… it’s not that there’s not enough advertising… There doesn’t seem to be a reason this site isn’t as active as MDN.
  167. # [03:19] <Rastus_Vernon> But I suppose it’ll still grow over time.
  168. # [03:19] <+eliezerb> Rastus_Vernon: MDN has all the Mozilla community working on that, we still are building our own community
  169. # [03:19] <+eliezerb> Takes some time until both get the same size
  170. # [03:19] <Rastus_Vernon> True.
  171. # [03:20] <+eliezerb> Rastus_Vernon: But when people arrive they will find a solid structure to work on
  172. # [03:20] <Rastus_Vernon> The structure is very solid, as far as I can see.
  173. # [03:20] <@renoirb> It had it snags :)
  174. # [03:20] <+eliezerb> Since renoirb started on W3C, we saw a lot of improvements that MDN maybe will take some time to get it there
  175. # [03:21] <+eliezerb> renoirb++
  176. # [03:21] <@renoirb> it doesnt work here eliezerb
  177. # [03:21] <@renoirb> you have to do this on irc.w3.org &systeam :)
  178. # [03:21] <+eliezerb> hahaha
  179. # [03:21] <@renoirb> It gives 'mana'
  180. # [03:21] <+eliezerb> :)
  181. # [03:22] <@renoirb> thanks for the ++ eliezerb
  182. # [03:22] <+eliezerb> Rastus_Vernon: but why don't you join us?
  183. # [03:22] <@renoirb> if you look here Rastus_Vernon, you will see compatibility tables. Something that's coming. http://docs.webplatform.org/test/Tests/Compatibility_table_and_caching
  184. # [03:22] <+eliezerb> Looks like that you have a lot to contribute with Webplatform.org
  185. # [03:22] <Rastus_Vernon> Quite true…
  186. # [03:23] <@renoirb> If you have issues with something, just ping me and I can see to make it easier.
  187. # [03:23] <+eliezerb> Rastus_Vernon: We all can help you if you need
  188. # [03:23] <Rastus_Vernon> I’m pretty used to MediaWiki, just not to Semantic MediaWiki and to the way that wiki is organized.
  189. # [03:23] <Rastus_Vernon> But there are help pages.
  190. # [03:26] <Rastus_Vernon> Ok, I guess I’ll try to contribute.
  191. # [03:26] <+eliezerb> Rastus_Vernon: yay!
  192. # [03:26] <+eliezerb> +1 for the Webplatform Community
  193. # [03:27] <@renoirb> Rastus_Vernon++
  194. # [03:28] * @renoirb hears "Victory" song from Final Fantasy
  195. # [03:28] <+eliezerb> renoirb: We are doing a great team!
  196. # [03:28] <@renoirb> indeed, eliezerb
  197. # [03:28] <+eliezerb> renoirb: I could be your player 2
  198. # [03:29] <@renoirb> if you have questinos about SMW, Rastus_Vernon, you can ask eliezerb. He spent some time figuring things on our site.
  199. # [03:29] <@renoirb> But if you talk about contributing to content, it should not matter whether we are using SMW or not.
  200. # [03:30] <@renoirb> As in, we'd like to have it "out of the way"
  201. # [03:31] <+eliezerb> Rastus_Vernon: Questions move the world, so don't hesitate!
  202. # [03:31] <@renoirb> Ooh. this page http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/concepts/redirect_no_javascript has been edited. I do not like the idea to teach meta http-equiv tag
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  204. # [03:33] <@renoirb> hi tandroid
  205. # [03:33] <@renoirb> I'm going off, TTYL eliezerb, Rastus_Vernon
  206. # [03:34] <+eliezerb> bye renoirb! Have a nice weekend!
  207. # [03:34] <Rastus_Vernon> hypothes.is cannot be used now since it is in beta, can it…?
  208. # [03:34] <tandroid> Hello
  209. # [03:42] <Rastus_Vernon> Well, I do have a question.
  210. # [03:43] <+eliezerb> Rastus_Vernon: About hypothes.is?
  211. # [03:43] <Rastus_Vernon> Nope.
  212. # [03:43] <Rastus_Vernon> About Web Platform.
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  214. # [03:43] <Rastus_Vernon> It concerns this page: http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/css/properties/float
  215. # [03:43] <+eliezerb> Rastus_Vernon: share with us
  216. # [03:44] <Rastus_Vernon> The float property is currently a property defined in a W3C Recommendation.
  217. # [03:44] <Rastus_Vernon> (CSS 2.1, I think)
  218. # [03:44] <Rastus_Vernon> This specification adds the ‘footnote’ value to that property: http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-gcpm/#turning-elements-into-footnotes
  219. # [03:44] <Rastus_Vernon> However, it is a working draft.
  220. # [03:45] <Rastus_Vernon> This is just an example, but what should be done in this case?
  221. # [03:46] <Rastus_Vernon> If I update the page to include the footnote property, how can I indicate that part of it is part of a recommendation but part of it isn’t but is part of a working draft? Or should I just not include the information (but there seem to be pages talking about features described in non-recommendations, such as the grid layout specification)?
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  223. # [04:00] <@renoirb> Rastus_Vernon, we have page flags for that
  224. # [04:01] <Rastus_Vernon> renoirb: Explain?
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  227. # [04:02] <@renoirb> you are talking about documenting a feature that isn't yet implemented (or in only one), right?
  228. # [04:03] <Rastus_Vernon> I am talking about a feature that is described in a W3C Recommendation, in a more recent non-recommendation W3C specification that doesn’t add functionality, and that is extended by a W3C Working Draft.
  229. # [04:04] <Rastus_Vernon> Basically, it is defined in CSS 2.1. It is redefined in some CSS3 spec. It is extended in another CSS3 spec.
  230. # [04:04] <Rastus_Vernon> Should I document the extension? If so, what should I do about the standard status of the page?
  231. # [04:05] <Rastus_Vernon> It should also be noted that it’s a pretty obscure extension. I am only aware of one user agent (Prince XML) supporting it, and it is only relevant for paged media.
  232. # [04:06] <Rastus_Vernon> I happen to know about it because I used it some times for documents I had to print that I wrote in HTML. That extension is the only way to create page footnotes in a printed HTML document.
  233. # [04:06] <Rastus_Vernon> The actual question is what to do about the standards status of the page.
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  235. # [04:08] <@renoirb> (reading)
  236. # [04:09] <@renoirb> So, in one page that describe the use of that CSS3 redefinition
  237. # [04:09] <@renoirb> you want to make it clear that you are documenting in relation to that version, and not the 2.1
  238. # [04:10] <+eliezerb> Sorry power down
  239. # [04:12] <Rastus_Vernon> renoirb: I did this: http://docs.webplatform.org/w/index.php?title=css%2Fproperties%2Ffloat&diff=51627&oldid=34643
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  241. # [04:12] <Rastus_Vernon> There was already a working draft, so I guess the page status has to do with when it was introduced.
  242. # [04:13] <@renoirb> wb eliezerb
  243. # [04:13] <Rastus_Vernon> I added the relevant spec, with a comment, to the relevant box, and added the value to the list. Should I also note in the description of the value that it comes from that specification, or is the comment in the specification table sufficient?
  244. # [04:13] <@renoirb> I'd suggest that you ask this on the mailing list, I have no clue on what to do in this situation
  245. # [04:14] <+eliezerb> Rastus_Vernon: Can you use this value in some browser?
  246. # [04:14] <@renoirb> eliezerb, wait a sec
  247. # [04:14] <Rastus_Vernon> eliezerb: Prince XML, I guess…
  248. # [04:14] <@renoirb> Read the conversation here http://www.webplatform.org/talk/chatlogs/#home
  249. # [04:14] <Rastus_Vernon> It is described in a W3C working draft, though.
  250. # [04:14] <@renoirb> (it will prevent Rastus_Vernon to repeat himself)
  251. # [04:15] <+eliezerb> renoirb: IRC Cloud
  252. # [04:15] <+eliezerb> :)
  253. # [04:15] <@renoirb> I have to go.
  254. # [04:15] <+eliezerb> Cool
  255. # [04:15] <+eliezerb> renoirb: one sec
  256. # [04:15] <Rastus_Vernon> eliezerb did not leave the channel, so he still has the messages.
  257. # [04:15] <+eliezerb> Rastus_Vernon: If you can write an example and run that new value in some browser
  258. # [04:15] <Rastus_Vernon> eliezerb: Uh, it is only relevant for paged media.
  259. # [04:15] <+eliezerb> You should include on WPD, otherwise I don't think we should include
  260. # [04:15] <@renoirb> indeed. But we never know, if the bouncer he was using did not send the buffer or whatever :)
  261. # [04:16] <Rastus_Vernon> Like page-break-after.
  262. # [04:16] <Rastus_Vernon> And like paged media stuff in general.
  263. # [04:16] <Rastus_Vernon> It is relevant when you print a HTML document, convert it to PDF. etc.
  264. # [04:16] <+eliezerb> Rastus_Vernon: nice!
  265. # [04:16] <+eliezerb> Rastus_Vernon: But is it implemented in some browser?
  266. # [04:17] <Rastus_Vernon> It is implemented in some user agent.
  267. # [04:17] <Rastus_Vernon> Some browser… not so much.
  268. # [04:17] <+eliezerb> lol
  269. # [04:17] <Rastus_Vernon> I know Prince XML supports it.
  270. # [04:17] <+eliezerb> Ok, user agent
  271. # [04:17] <Rastus_Vernon> It converts HTML documents into PDF files, so it isn’t exactly a web browser.
  272. # [04:18] <@renoirb> I really got to go now.
  273. # [04:18] <@renoirb> ttyl
  274. # [04:18] <+eliezerb> ok bye renoirb
  275. # [04:18] <+eliezerb> Rastus_Vernon: makes sense to keep it
  276. # [04:18] <+eliezerb> It's a good point
  277. # [04:18] <@renoirb> Sorry Rastus_Vernon for not being more helpful, I'm not in doc mode ATM.
  278. # [04:19] <@renoirb> bye
  279. # [04:19] <+eliezerb> It'll be great if you send a mail to the mailing list about this topic
  280. # [04:32] <+eliezerb> Rastus_Vernon: Well, it's my time
  281. # [04:33] <+eliezerb> Rastus_Vernon: Have a great weekend
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  450. # [21:55] * ChanServ sets mode: +o ravenzz
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  456. # [22:24] * Quits: _cheney_ (~cheney@nat.sierrabravo.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  457. # [22:25] * DenSchub is now known as afkSchub
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  459. # [22:25] * ChanServ sets mode: +o _cheney
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  462. # [22:58] * ptressel|zzz is now known as ptressel
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  466. # [23:18] * Joins: kiy (~kiyoura@pool-173-79-97-128.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
  467. # [23:19] * afkSchub is now known as offSchub
  468. # [23:21] * offSchub is now known as DenSchub
  469. # Session Close: Mon Apr 21 00:00:00 2014

The end :)