/irc-logs / freenode / #webplatform / 2014-04-22 / end

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  203. # [17:20] <+jensimmons> are we using META?
  204. # [17:21] <+jensimmons> or should everything be on WPD?
  205. # [17:21] <+jensimmons> renoirb: ?
  206. # [17:22] <@renoirb> hi jensimmons
  207. # [17:22] <+jensimmons> hiya
  208. # [17:22] <@renoirb> what do you mean META?
  209. # [17:23] <@renoirb> you mean http-equiv meta tags?
  210. # [17:23] <+jensimmons> I mean like: http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/Meta:Editors_Guide
  211. # [17:23] <+jensimmons> in the URL
  212. # [17:23] <+jensimmons> and in the structure of the wiki
  213. # [17:23] <@renoirb> oh!
  214. # [17:24] <+jensimmons> it seems there was an idea at some point to put all the Doc stuff on WPD, and the info about helping and doing stuff at META
  215. # [17:24] <+jensimmons> is that still the cse?
  216. # [17:24] <+jensimmons> *case
  217. # [17:24] <@renoirb> It is a container for moved contents.
  218. # [17:24] <+jensimmons> or has that idea faded into the idea of just putting everything at WPD
  219. # [17:24] <+jensimmons> ?
  220. # [17:24] <@renoirb> It needs adjustments to be moved away
  221. # [17:24] <+jensimmons> “A container for moved contents”??
  222. # [17:24] <+jensimmons> wha?
  223. # [17:24] <@renoirb> We had javascript contents before importing from MSDN, right
  224. # [17:24] <+jensimmons> meaning META was just for temporary things that are being deleted or something?
  225. # [17:25] <@renoirb> So it is now here http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/Meta:javascript
  226. # [17:25] <@renoirb> instead of deleting it.
  227. # [17:25] <+jensimmons> sigh
  228. # [17:25] <+jensimmons> so…. WPD is for “real” content
  229. # [17:25] <+jensimmons> and META is not to be used??
  230. # [17:25] <@renoirb> yes.
  231. # [17:25] <+jensimmons> not used for “real content"
  232. # [17:25] <+jensimmons> the name meta is misleading
  233. # [17:25] <@renoirb> I know.
  234. # [17:25] <@renoirb> I'm just reporting what I remember.
  235. # [17:26] <@renoirb> You know, my focus is mostly on servers... not on content and structure.
  236. # [17:26] <@renoirb> I'd work on it too someday :)
  237. # [17:26] <+jensimmons> I don’t need to get into all the depths…. I just want to know, as I make a new page (or really, rename pages) that are about how to get invovled — it sounds like they should all be on WPD
  238. # [17:26] <@renoirb> sure.
  239. # [17:26] <+jensimmons> I’m not saving the old stuff, btw. It will live on in the history/revisions
  240. # [17:26] <+jensimmons> but I
  241. # [17:27] <+jensimmons> I’m going to delete, delete, delete
  242. # [17:27] <@renoirb> to what I understand: WPD is for site management... might be better as Meta, because it it actually meta to our site.
  243. # [17:27] <+jensimmons> there’s too much old stuff around & it makes it super hard to understand what’s going on, imo
  244. # [17:27] <+eliezerb> jensimmons: I agree
  245. # [17:27] <@renoirb> yup.
  246. # [17:27] <+jensimmons> revisions can hold the history
  247. # [17:28] <+jensimmons> I won’t create anything on META
  248. # [17:28] <+eliezerb> jensimmons: If we delete something that should be not deleted, we can simple bring it back
  249. # [17:28] <+jensimmons> I’ll put everything on WPD
  250. # [17:28] <+jensimmons> it sounds like that’s what I should do
  251. # [17:28] <+jensimmons> eliezerb: exactly
  252. # [17:28] <+eliezerb> It's time to make things easy, and clean up everything
  253. # [17:28] <+jensimmons> YES
  254. # [17:28] <@renoirb> that's it, what is related to how to work with webplatform.org is currently in WPD namespace.
  255. # [17:29] <+eliezerb> As Amelia said in that email we have 2 or 3 pages to getting started
  256. # [17:29] <+jensimmons> otherwise new people who want to help get bogged down and confused
  257. # [17:29] <+jensimmons> eliezerb: i know
  258. # [17:29] <+jensimmons> and they contradict each other
  259. # [17:29] <+jensimmons> it took me weeks to understand what was going on
  260. # [17:29] <+jensimmons> AND I’m still finding new stuff
  261. # [17:29] * @renoirb is not an expert in communication. You ask questions, I answer :/
  262. # [17:29] <+jensimmons> accidently
  263. # [17:29] <+jensimmons> it’s not 2-3 pages, it’s like 20
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  265. # [17:31] <+eliezerb> We should have a map site, or something like that
  266. # [17:31] <@renoirb> hahaha
  267. # [17:31] <+jensimmons> it should be obvious, what the site map is, from the way content is organized & from the menus
  268. # [17:31] <@renoirb> Problem is to do some clean up :)
  269. # [17:31] <+eliezerb> Took me long weeks to find out where each part of the content were
  270. # [17:31] <+jensimmons> but
  271. # [17:31] <@renoirb> and people to do it :)
  272. # [17:32] <+jensimmons> meanwhile, a site map would be great. Even if just for us. I keep finding pages accidently that are important. And getting bogged down by pages that shouldn’t exist
  273. # [17:32] <+jensimmons> is there a site map / list of pages that wikimedia can autogenerate
  274. # [17:32] <+jensimmons> ??
  275. # [17:32] <+jensimmons> that would help us
  276. # [17:32] <+eliezerb> I was about to ask this
  277. # [17:33] <+jensimmons> meanwhile, I want to make the top nav super simple. And link the most important stuff only from there & from those pages
  278. # [17:33] <+jensimmons> AND
  279. # [17:33] <@renoirb> jensimmons, yes
  280. # [17:33] <+jensimmons> create a fat nav footer where we can list “shortcut” links to all the things intermediate people want
  281. # [17:34] <@renoirb> http://www.webplatform.org/robots.txt they are all valid
  282. # [17:34] <+jensimmons> for those who are already contributing
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  287. # [17:35] <@renoirb> Also, we have a list of all keys to use with the CompatTable project: http://docs.webplatform.org/compat/compat-mdn-human.json
  288. # [17:37] <+eliezerb> Looks like we also have a TEST tag http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/TEST:html
  289. # [17:42] <+jensimmons> yeah…. that TEST, uh, it bugs me everytime I see it. The stack should really have a test server, where all these things are done on a separate database
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  291. # [17:42] <+jensimmons> running test imports and convertions on the live db just slows down our real website and bloats the db
  292. # [17:43] <+jensimmons> over time it’ll make things slower and slower
  293. # [17:43] <+jensimmons> ;(
  294. # [17:43] <+jensimmons> and if a test goes wrong.....
  295. # [17:43] <+eliezerb> jensimmons: We already have a test wiki
  296. # [17:43] <+jensimmons> there’s a separate install & server for tests?
  297. # [17:43] <+eliezerb> renoirb: ?
  298. # [17:43] <+jensimmons> why are we using the live server then for test imports?
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  300. # [17:46] <@renoirb> I agree :)
  301. # [17:47] <@renoirb> I'm to roll out mroftalpbew.org someday
  302. # [17:48] <@renoirb> In fact the docs.webplatform.org/test/ is NOT the same db table as docs.webplatform.org/wiki/ . But it /is/ using the same database servers.
  303. # [17:48] <@renoirb> ... and application servers.
  304. # [17:48] <+jensimmons> I’m a big fan of the way Pantheon has setup their stacks. https://www.getpantheon.com. LOVE LOVE LOVE working in their dev-test-live environment.
  305. # [17:48] <@renoirb> I plan to create a complete mirror of **everything**, and isolated!!!1
  306. # [17:49] <@renoirb> I think they are using Docker
  307. # [17:49] <@renoirb> http://pyvideo.org/video/2629/introduction-to-docker
  308. # [17:49] <+jensimmons> it’s just for Drupal and WordPress — so not something for WPD on mediawiki, but it’s really the best of the best as far as an architectural plan http://helpdesk.getpantheon.com/customer/portal/articles/383609-using-the-pantheon-workflow
  309. # [17:50] <@renoirb> its just NOT open source and probably hiding the real backbone of it.
  310. # [17:50] * Quits: hyperair (~hyperair@ubuntu/member/hyperair) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  311. # [17:50] <+jensimmons> well, and it doesn’t make sense for one guy running one project to try and build something that awesome. They’ve been at it for several years now, and run a system that hosts thousands of websites
  312. # [17:51] <+jensimmons> the $$ doesn’t add up to try and copy that. I just mean, in broad strokes…
  313. # [17:51] <+jensimmons> and if you ever need Drupal hosting, just go get a Pantheon account. There’s no one else even close to being as good
  314. # [17:51] <@renoirb> I think they are using FreeBSD jails. So you have a set of servers that are 'Golden' and each client server runs a "Jail" ... one process, very thin VM serving only their site.
  315. # [17:51] <@renoirb> this isn't new. Docker does this.
  316. # [17:51] * MagicalSerpent is now known as FeatheredSerpent
  317. # [17:51] <+jensimmons> yeah, I have no idea what they are running
  318. # [17:51] <@renoirb> I plan to have a look at it.
  319. # [17:52] <@renoirb> I'm telling you :)
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  321. # [17:52] <+jensimmons> I don’t mean their technonolgy choices
  322. # [17:52] <@renoirb> ok.
  323. # [17:52] <+jensimmons> I’m just saying this http://assistly-production.s3.amazonaws.com/pantheon-systems/portal_attachments/29437/workflow_original.png?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJNSFWOZ6ZS23BMKQ&Expires=1398194632&Signature=cxFUSGO3fyWfiairxNgeG0lKWhY%3D&response-content-disposition=filename%3D%22workflow.png%22&response-content-type=image%2Fpng
  324. # [17:52] <@renoirb> I like their idea
  325. # [17:52] <+jensimmons> that drawing
  326. # [17:52] <@renoirb> glad to see its done.
  327. # [17:53] <+jensimmons> it’s hot. You push new code to dev. Mess around, break whatever you want. Then once it’s ready, you click and get new code & current live data mashed together on test. Then you can push to live knowing nothing will break
  328. # [17:53] <@renoirb> That's something similar to this that i'm going toward
  329. # [17:54] <+jensimmons> it’s not a direct recommendation for WPD
  330. # [17:54] <+jensimmons> I’m just rambling
  331. # [17:54] <@renoirb> I understand. That's part of my job objective to improve server deployment.
  332. # [17:54] <+jensimmons> :)
  333. # [17:55] <@renoirb> So, hopefully soon, we will have something close to this.
  334. # [17:55] <@renoirb> that's my wish :)
  335. # [18:01] * Quits: mstalfoort (~manuchill@83.232.96.217) (Quit: kthxbai)
  336. # [18:05] <+jensimmons> WTF MEDIAWIKI???????
  337. # [18:06] <+jensimmons> Does this thing NOT create redirects when it says it will??
  338. # [18:06] <+jensimmons> WTF?
  339. # [18:08] <@Garbee> Do what?
  340. # [18:08] <@Garbee> I've moved a few pages in the last few days.
  341. # [18:08] <+jensimmons> oh, I’m complaining about pages *I’ve* just moved and broken.
  342. # [18:08] <@Garbee> working for me.
  343. # [18:08] <@Garbee> http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/html/attributes/readOnly
  344. # [18:09] <@Garbee> redirects to readonly content.
  345. # [18:09] <@Garbee> But URL isn't changing.
  346. # [18:09] <@Garbee> :(
  347. # [18:09] <@Garbee> That is broken.
  348. # [18:09] <+jensimmons> yeah, it’s this one http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Editors_Guide
  349. # [18:09] <@Garbee> You moved the editors guide?
  350. # [18:09] <+jensimmons> I guess two redirects don’t work
  351. # [18:09] <+jensimmons> yeah, I moved it twice
  352. # [18:10] <+jensimmons> it’ll be ok once we update the navigation everywhere.
  353. # [18:10] <@Garbee> Yea, I bet that would do it.
  354. # [18:10] <+jensimmons> renoirb: ^ (see my email)
  355. # [18:10] <@Garbee> double redirect.
  356. # [18:10] <+jensimmons> yeah, it’s too bad
  357. # [18:11] <@Garbee> And you have it backwords.
  358. # [18:11] <@Garbee> The Meta:whatever page is the old thing that needs to be done way with.
  359. # [18:11] <@renoirb> I replied Jen
  360. # [18:11] <@Garbee> Contributors Guide is the successor to that.
  361. # [18:11] <@renoirb> I do not want to deploy at every minute :/
  362. # [18:12] <@Garbee> Meta:Editors_Guide
  363. # [18:12] <+jensimmons> totally understood
  364. # [18:12] <@Garbee> That is something we did initially to try and get it going, then julee and someone else went through and wrote it all up under the WPD:Editors_Guide.
  365. # [18:12] <@renoirb> Not that i'm lazy. Its that I'm doing something else and It'll require me to do more than just two commands.
  366. # [18:12] <+jensimmons> yeah, I moved it to meta when I thought meta was the right place. I should have asked first and then just moved it once to where it belongs, WPD
  367. # [18:12] <+jensimmons> sorry
  368. # [18:13] <@Garbee> Tis fine.
  369. # [18:13] <@Garbee> iirc a few months ago someone mentioned dropping the WPD namespace.
  370. # [18:13] <@renoirb> that's ok.
  371. # [18:13] * @Garbee sees no reason to do that.
  372. # [18:13] <+jensimmons> I like the page at http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/Meta:Editors_Guide, btw. Garbee did you help write it?
  373. # [18:13] <@renoirb> You could create a new page too and delete the old ones once the content is migrated.
  374. # [18:13] <@Garbee> jensimmons: This are still iffy to all of us, especially with exactly where things should go. The site architecture page hasn't been updated in a while iirc.
  375. # [18:13] <+jensimmons> I’ve been moving old pages just to hold on to the revision history, instead of starting new & deleting
  376. # [18:14] <@Garbee> Yea, I did some work on the editors guide.
  377. # [18:14] <@Garbee> My initial contributions to WPD were more geared towards helping get others understanding how to contribute since it wasn't really well laid out. That led into the issue tracker stuff.
  378. # [18:14] <+jensimmons> Mostly my goal is to a) eliminate duplication, b) get rid of as many pages as possible and say what we want to say in as few pages as possible and c) make sure all URLs & titles are super clear & make sense
  379. # [18:15] <@Garbee> Nice. Good clear goals.
  380. # [18:15] <@Garbee> I'm just working on fixing up the HTML ref docs some. Element and Attributes stuff right now.
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  382. # [18:15] <+jensimmons> yay!
  383. # [18:15] <@Garbee> My current goal is just two or three pages a day.
  384. # [18:15] <@Garbee> Start at least getting things in order.
  385. # [18:16] <@Garbee> So they are somewhat useful.
  386. # [18:16] <+jensimmons> sounds great
  387. # [18:16] <@Garbee> Then when people go over it for WPW stuff to really fill in what I miss/don't know then it is at least in a decent order with hopefully good examples already laid out.
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  390. # [18:17] <@Garbee> I'm also currently completely rethinking the beginner's guide structure.
  391. # [18:17] <@Garbee> We had this huge outline made.
  392. # [18:17] <@Garbee> But I'm thinking that won't be very effective.
  393. # [18:17] <@Garbee> I was watching Timothy Ferris's show whatever it is. And he brought up the "Minimum Effective Dose" to learn something. We really need to hit that.
  394. # [18:18] <@Garbee> What is the minimum amount of stuff people *need* to know to be able to understand what they are looking at with HTML/CSS/JS.
  395. # [18:18] <+jensimmons> yeah, it seems anyplace there were huge plans made & complex architecture created to support Huge Plans — that now it’s a lot of extra structure that seems less than ideal. Paring things back to just Be What They Are and not empty spaces of future everything is a good way to go.
  396. # [18:18] <+jensimmons> minimum shippable
  397. # [18:18] <+jensimmons> then as the project grows, bigger things can be added later
  398. # [18:19] <@Garbee> Also, going back to a MED for it means it is *a lot* less writing/editing up front.
  399. # [18:19] <@Garbee> So that makes maintaining it easier in the long run.
  400. # [18:19] <@Garbee> So it isn't as stressful/daunting of a task to do among a few people. Whereas our current outline for the BG is horrid.
  401. # [18:20] <@Garbee> But, part of my thing for writing that is, I want to link into our ref docs right away. I don't want to link into broken HTML element pages for people to learn more from.
  402. # [18:20] <@Garbee> So I'm focusing on the innards first, then going to work on that outer content to get people used to seeing our docs in what is at least a usable fashion.
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  404. # [18:21] <+jensimmons> nice
  405. # [18:24] <+jensimmons> should Web Platform Wednesdays no longer be on META? http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/Meta:web_platform_wednesday
  406. # [18:25] <+jensimmons> are our meeting notes on META?
  407. # [18:25] <+jensimmons> nothing we have to deal with right now… but we should work towards consistency
  408. # [18:27] <@Garbee> I think we need to figure out what the deal with the meta namespace even is.
  409. # [18:27] <+jensimmons> exactly
  410. # [18:27] <@Garbee> iirc there was a discussion about the move in the ML. But I didn't really read or respond.
  411. # [18:27] <@Garbee> I don't see the point in meta: when WPD: works just fine. It is just semantics that no one cares about.
  412. # [18:31] <@Garbee> jensimmons: Yea, please shoot an email into the ML about the Meta: vs WPD: thing and see what others have to say on it.
  413. # [18:31] * @Garbee leans towards WPD: since that is what has been used for a long time and there is no real issue with it.
  414. # [18:31] <@Garbee> WPD is the "Project" namespace anyways. Which all that stuff relates to perfectly.
  415. # [18:34] * Quits: hyperair (~hyperair@ubuntu/member/hyperair) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  416. # [18:35] * @renoirb just discovered about windows.sessionStorage
  417. # [18:35] <@renoirb> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Guide/API/DOM/Storage
  418. # [18:35] <@renoirb> http://dev.w3.org/html5/webstorage/#the-sessionstorage-attribute
  419. # [18:36] <@Garbee> renoirb: Yea.
  420. # [18:36] <@renoirb> That's what Firefox Accounts is using ("FxA")
  421. # [18:36] <@renoirb> https://accounts.webplatform.org/
  422. # [18:36] <@renoirb> ... I'm deploying and proof testing it.
  423. # [18:36] <@Garbee> renoirb: http://mozilla.github.io/localForage/
  424. # [18:36] <@Garbee> Awesome little API for local storage stuff.
  425. # [18:37] <@renoirb> So, if you are logged in, you can JSON.parse(sessionStorage.getItem('__fxa_session'))
  426. # [18:37] <@renoirb> from the brwoser console
  427. # [18:37] <@Garbee> Basically automatically picks what is supported for you in a given browser.
  428. # [18:37] <@renoirb> i'm aware of localStorage. I used it in 2010
  429. # [18:37] <@Garbee> Session and Local storage are actually the exact same system (I've done quite a bit of stuff with local here lately.)
  430. # [18:37] <@renoirb> but never thought of sessionStorage. It escaped me.
  431. # [18:37] <@Garbee> Just different times to clear out what is there.
  432. # [18:38] <@renoirb> localForage :)
  433. # [18:38] <@renoirb> hahaha
  434. # [18:38] <@Garbee> My big upset with web storage is, no way to get the max quota, space used, or the space used by a single item in storage. :(
  435. # [18:38] <@Garbee> So me dealing with huge arrays of data, has no real clue how much I'm using.
  436. # [18:38] <@renoirb> you can therefore fill the disk :)
  437. # [18:38] <@Garbee> Yet, it is limited (unless you build a chrome app and request unlimited.)
  438. # [18:39] <@Garbee> nah, it is limited. But there isn't a hard limit by the spec, it is up to the client to determine.
  439. # [18:39] <@Garbee> Typically 5MB is normal iirc, Chrome is 8MB now (unless you build an app where you can request up to unlimited.)
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  443. # [18:56] <@renoirb> Thanks for the short summary Garbee, it sums it all well :)
  444. # [18:57] <@renoirb> It just reshuffled things in my head.
  445. # [18:57] <@Garbee> I'd love to do some web storage docs for WPD. But my priority right now is the straight HTML ref docs.
  446. # [18:57] <@Garbee> Web storage is awesome, and I love it.
  447. # [18:57] * Joins: ravenz (~raven@host6-109-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
  448. # [18:57] <@renoirb> me too
  449. # [18:58] <@renoirb> We'll get there Garbee, we'll get there!
  450. # [18:59] * Quits: @ravenzz (~raven@unaffiliated/ravenzz) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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  455. # [19:01] <@frozenice> re double redirects: yes MW won't follow those, there is even a SpecialPage listing them http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/Special:DoubleRedirects but it seems it didn't get updated in a long time, I guess one would need to run a maintenance script for that or something
  456. # [19:03] * Joins: eliot (836bc025@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.192.37)
  457. # [19:06] <@renoirb> ok.
  458. # [19:06] <@renoirb> wonders what is that script.
  459. # [19:06] <@renoirb> most likely somewhere in maintenance/
  460. # [19:07] <@renoirb> but there are hundred of files.
  461. # [19:07] <eliot> eliot is here
  462. # [19:09] * Joins: arnaudb (~arnaudb@72-18-233-188.static-ip.telepacific.net)
  463. # [19:09] <@renoirb> wrong room. here!
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  466. # [19:10] * @renoirb doesnt want to frighten amelia
  467. # [19:11] <@renoirb> var scribenick = renoirb || eliott;
  468. # [19:11] <@renoirb> start meeting
  469. # [19:11] <@renoirb> Agenda:
  470. # [19:11] <@renoirb> * Compatibility Table Project
  471. # [19:11] <@renoirb> * Flag templates
  472. # [19:11] <@renoirb> * Web Platform Wednesday: SVG
  473. # [19:11] <@renoirb> * Review of open action items
  474. # [19:11] <@renoirb> * Any other topics?
  475. # [19:11] <@renoirb> AGENDA+ Roundtable with Amelia
  476. # [19:12] <@renoirb> #Topic Compatibility Table project
  477. # [19:12] <@renoirb> Doug: Renoir made a scrip that imports content from MDN and converts it to objects.
  478. # [19:12] <eliot> eliot bows out of scribing. Can't keep up with renoirB
  479. # [19:12] <@renoirb> ... we have problem to get a portion of the data
  480. # [19:13] * +eliezerb is in the IRC
  481. # [19:13] <@renoirb> ... issue has been described at https://github.com/webplatform/mdn-compat-importer/issues/3
  482. # [19:13] <@renoirb> ... we contacted MDN, they cannot help us
  483. # [19:13] <@renoirb> ... we have something working but still have missing data
  484. # [19:14] <@renoirb> ... ptressel is currently working on an Apache Nutch scraping project that we can pass our importer against.
  485. # [19:14] * Joins: morficus (~morficus@108-205-132-58.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net)
  486. # [19:14] <@renoirb> ... it will prevent to overload servers, and guarantee us to have as much data as possible
  487. # [19:14] <@renoirb> ... effectively going around the limitation problem
  488. # [19:15] * Joins: dcervantes (~dcervante@198.245.95.126)
  489. # [19:15] * @renoirb gave BOOL approval
  490. # [19:15] <@renoirb> Doug: Renoir is working on SSO stuff.
  491. # [19:15] <@renoirb> ... more on this later
  492. # [19:15] * Joins: Marlon_ (bb2d67fa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.187.45.103.250)
  493. # [19:15] <@renoirb> ... hopefully next week Renoir will switch workpile back on CompatTable
  494. # [19:16] <@renoirb> ... and have it deployed on the main wiki
  495. # [19:16] * Joins: ckwalsh (~ckwalsh@facebook/engineering/ckwalsh)
  496. # [19:16] <@renoirb> Doug: Is asking about ... with @@
  497. # [19:16] <@renoirb> ... to write a blog post related to CompaTables
  498. # [19:16] <@renoirb> ... [logistics]
  499. # [19:17] <@renoirb> ACTION: Doug to sync with Eliot about a Blog post announcing Compatibility tables
  500. # [19:17] <@renoirb> [Doug giving context to Amelia]
  501. # [19:18] * Joins: developerjustin (~developer@173.80.86.179)
  502. # [19:19] <@renoirb> http://w3c-test.org/webstorage/storage_local_getitem.html
  503. # [19:19] <@renoirb> AmeliaBR ^
  504. # [19:19] <@renoirb> is an example about W3C tests
  505. # [19:19] * Quits: morficus (~morficus@108-205-132-58.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  506. # [19:19] <@renoirb> Based off of https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests ^
  507. # [19:20] <@renoirb> #TOPIC Flag and templates
  508. # [19:20] <@renoirb> [asking if eliezerb is there, confirming]
  509. # [19:20] <+eliezerb> renoirb: Yes!
  510. # [19:20] <@renoirb> [we'll add it to the meeting]
  511. # [19:20] <+eliezerb> On IRC
  512. # [19:20] <+eliezerb> :(
  513. # [19:20] * @renoirb knows, just scribing
  514. # [19:20] <@renoirb> Doug: We've had ability to add templates
  515. # [19:21] <@renoirb> ... flags on templates
  516. # [19:21] <@renoirb> ... do we know enough; How do we script against SMW so we can trigger flags on or off.
  517. # [19:21] <@renoirb> ... does anybody else can help on that
  518. # [19:22] <@renoirb> [Doug will talk with eliezerb about what we can do, and what is missing]
  519. # [19:23] <@renoirb> Jen: [asks about how to use, and is offering to help]
  520. # [19:23] <@renoirb> Doug: We have a solution. But the solution is that we are to remove the old flags, and put the new flags in. But they will all be unchecked
  521. # [19:24] <@renoirb> ... this is where the script will be usefull. To read what was the old flags, and activate on the new flag model
  522. # [19:24] <@renoirb> ... using a script
  523. # [19:24] <eliot> I think that this summarizes where we ended up with flags: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webplatform/2013Dec/0035.html
  524. # [19:25] <@renoirb> yes, eliezerb
  525. # [19:25] <@renoirb> ooh, yes, eliot
  526. # [19:25] <+eliezerb> We have another mail comming, under renoirb review
  527. # [19:26] <@renoirb> [Jen is suggesting that we manually adjust flags on each page. It'll be a good way to also have an inventory of what we have]
  528. # [19:26] * +eliezerb agree with Jen
  529. # [19:27] * Quits: auchenberg (~auchenber@x1-6-00-8e-f2-36-28-8a.cpe.webspeed.dk) (Remote host closed the connection)
  530. # [19:27] <@renoirb> Renoir: [Mentions to the conf call about the email that elizer sent Renoir]
  531. # [19:28] * Joins: auchenberg (~auchenber@x1-6-00-8e-f2-36-28-8a.cpe.webspeed.dk)
  532. # [19:28] <@renoirb> Jen: Suggesting to have a first pass
  533. # [19:28] <@renoirb> ... instead of a Google Docs, to have a mediawiki managed list of the pages
  534. # [19:28] <@renoirb> ... will be more useful in the long run
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  537. # [19:29] <@renoirb> ... essentially to have a list of all pages in some way by readyness order
  538. # [19:29] <eliot> suggests that we have a "flagger" badge (or something else more clever) for those participating in the manual work.
  539. # [19:30] <@renoirb> ... There are 5 states, last would be "not marked yet" so we can use it as a TODO
  540. # [19:30] <@renoirb> [confirming the concept of Flags and how to list it]
  541. # [19:31] <@renoirb> [Amelia says that she's been reading SMW lately]
  542. # [19:31] <@renoirb> Doug: Asking Eliot about the current flags
  543. # [19:32] <@renoirb> Eliot: The list is available from the mailing list archive <= http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webplatform/2013Dec/0035.html
  544. # [19:32] <@renoirb> ... will be very nice to have such "TODO"
  545. # [19:32] <@renoirb> [Doug confirms]
  546. # [19:33] * Quits: auchenberg (~auchenber@x1-6-00-8e-f2-36-28-8a.cpe.webspeed.dk) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  547. # [19:34] <@renoirb> Project idea: Walk through ALL CSS content, with a list view based on the "new" flag system, listing by "not flagged at all", then while walking through, contributors will be able to flag appropriately.
  548. # [19:34] <@renoirb> eliot, can you confirm ^
  549. # [19:34] <@renoirb> just to be sure it makes sense
  550. # [19:35] <@renoirb> eliot?
  551. # [19:35] <@renoirb> [renoir asks Eliot to validate]
  552. # [19:35] <eliot> What we'll have is a set of "readiness" flags: ready to use, almost ready, etc.
  553. # [19:35] <@renoirb> Jen: Design wise it will be more useful than a set of flages.
  554. # [19:36] <@renoirb> Doug: Asking how do we execute on it
  555. # [19:36] <eliot> ...and then, we can add details in a comment box about what specific deficiencies are there.
  556. # [19:36] <@renoirb> ... suggesting that we could leverage the "dropdown" concept
  557. # [19:37] <@renoirb> ... and since its not a checkbox, we can state a default state. That's where we can say "not flagged at all" ... TODO!
  558. # [19:38] <@renoirb> [me summarizing the concept]
  559. # [19:39] <@renoirb> Jen: Wonders if we are actually using MW flags, or something that seems like it.
  560. # [19:40] <@renoirb> AmeliaBR: could be an addition and not delete the old flags
  561. # [19:40] <@renoirb> ... Caputure the flag!
  562. # [19:40] <@renoirb> ^ eliot
  563. # [19:40] <@renoirb> Doug: [Reminding about flags and the side effects]
  564. # [19:41] <@renoirb> Jen: Strongly suggests to add the flags at the bottom (as metadata), maybe not render them, and stop using RED. Its metadata, not big warning.
  565. # [19:42] <@renoirb> Doug: Confirming they should be at the bottom of both views, edit and view ... view.
  566. # [19:42] <@renoirb> Jen: Asks that we can make sure we can list pages with same flags
  567. # [19:42] <@renoirb> ACTION: To ensure that flag links leads to a page listing pages that has same flag on them
  568. # [19:42] <+eliezerb> renoirb: we do
  569. # [19:43] <+eliezerb> http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/Special:SearchByProperty/Content_quality_flag/Incomplete
  570. # [19:43] <@renoirb> Doug: Suggesting to remove temporarily the flags (without deleting the data) and put the readyness
  571. # [19:44] <@renoirb> ... workflow. So later we can read the data from the former tags, remove the barrier of "red flags" for the short term, and later we'll script and re-use that data later on.
  572. # [19:44] <@renoirb> ... the idea is to remove the edition of them, just keep the data without displaying nor editing it
  573. # [19:44] <@renoirb> ... we'll query it later.
  574. # [19:44] <@renoirb> ... and focus on the readyness dropdown
  575. # [19:44] * @renoirb is just scribing.
  576. # [19:45] <@renoirb> eliezerb, shepazu said he'd have a talk with you later.
  577. # [19:45] <+eliezerb> Cool, sorry, I'll be on hold, thanks
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  581. # [19:51] <@renoirb> Eliot: Suggests shepazu to make an implementation proposal on the mailing list
  582. # [19:51] <@renoirb> ... Shepazu is asking Jen if she can.
  583. # [19:51] <@renoirb> [Jen agrees]
  584. # [19:51] <eliot> +1 to the efficacy of the new solution using readiness states
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  589. # [19:51] <@renoirb> Doug: We should have a way to query pages based on flags or other properties
  590. # [19:51] <AmeliaBR> Example of flag search (this is linked from one of the help pages for beginners, shows all pages with "Needs Summary"): http://docs.webplatform.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAsk&q=%5B%5BContent_quality_flag%3A%3A~Needs+Summary%5D%5D%0D%0A++%5B%5BChecked_Out%3A%3Afalse%5D%5D&po=&eq=yes&p%5Bformat%5D=broadtable&sort_num=&order_num=ASC&p%5Blimit%5D=&p%5Boffset%5D=&p%5Blink%5D=all&p%5Bsort%5D=&p%5Bheaders%5D=show&;p%5Bmainlabel%5D=
  591. # [19:52] <@renoirb> [Renoir validated how to query]
  592. # [19:52] <@renoirb> e.g. http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Ask_API
  593. # [19:53] * @renoirb you can see frozenice's WPD stats info utility <= http://webplatform.frozenice.de/pageinfo.html
  594. # [19:53] * @renoirb .. example: http://webplatform.frozenice.de/pageinfo.html#css/properties/border-radius
  595. # [19:54] <eliot> Could do something like the W3C specs use. See this for the blue stripe: http://www.w3.org/TR/html-polyglot/
  596. # [19:57] <eliot> Doug pulls foot from mouth
  597. # [19:58] <@renoirb> #TOPIC quick introductions
  598. # [19:58] <@renoirb> * Amelia
  599. # [19:58] <@renoirb> * Shepazu
  600. # [19:58] <@renoirb> * jensimmons
  601. # [19:59] <@renoirb> * Jen worked on: Editor guide,
  602. # [19:59] <@renoirb> ... proposed changes for links
  603. # [19:59] <eliot> jensimmons: workiong on editing pages. Consolidating. Going to keep working.
  604. # [19:59] * @renoirb ... thanks eliot
  605. # [19:59] <eliot> ....deleting pages ultimately. Please provide feedback
  606. # [19:59] * @renoirb missed it
  607. # [20:00] <@renoirb> shepazu: Meeting is ending
  608. # [20:00] <eliot> ...some pages were moved and others moved twice, so we need to check on navigation links.
  609. # [20:00] <@renoirb> ... says if somebody can go to docsprint in europoe
  610. # [20:00] * Quits: Marlon_ (bb2d67fa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.187.45.103.250) (Quit: Page closed)
  611. # [20:01] <+jensimmons> readiness marker
  612. # [20:01] <@renoirb> ACTIONS:
  613. # [20:02] <@renoirb> Thanks everybody
  614. # [20:02] <@renoirb> [adjourned]
  615. # [20:05] * @renoirb previous meeting notes were at >> http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Community/Meetings/General/2014/0415_raw_mtg_notes
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  618. # [20:11] <@renoirb> jensimmons, AmeliaBR, look here: http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/Special:SearchByProperty?property=Content_quality_flag&value=Examples%20Best%20Practices
  619. # [20:12] <@renoirb> oh, AmeliaBR showed it already.
  620. # [20:12] <@renoirb> frozenice's utility at http://webplatform.frozenice.de/pageinfo.html is very useful
  621. # [20:13] * Joins: hyperair (~hyperair@ubuntu/member/hyperair)
  622. # [20:17] <@frozenice> btw I also made an embeddable list for displaying pages with a certain flag (and more), it's used here http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Getting_Started#Edit_for_spelling_.26_grammar
  623. # [20:17] * Quits: developerjustin (~developer@173.80.86.179) (Quit: Leaving...)
  624. # [20:18] <@frozenice> check the source for Configurable_Query
  625. # [20:18] * Joins: Ryan_Lane1 (~Ryan_Lane@c-24-5-148-89.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  626. # [20:18] <@frozenice> has a "GUI" too: http://docs.webplatform.org/w/index.php?title=User:Frozenice/Customized_Lists_Test&action=formedit
  627. # [20:20] * Quits: ckwalsh (~ckwalsh@facebook/engineering/ckwalsh) (Remote host closed the connection)
  628. # [20:20] * @renoirb is going meta<-->meta http://webplatform.frozenice.de/pageinfo.html#User:Frozenice/Customized_Lists_Test
  629. # [20:21] <@frozenice> "Has query", never seen that property before
  630. # [20:21] * Joins: ckwalsh (~ckwalsh@facebook/engineering/ckwalsh)
  631. # [20:21] <@frozenice> eliezerb: if you want to go crazy: http://docs.webplatform.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Configurable_Query&action=edit :D
  632. # [20:21] <@renoirb> ok, frozenice, you really put your head in this < http://docs.webplatform.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Configurable_Query&action=edit
  633. # [20:21] * Quits: ckwalsh (~ckwalsh@facebook/engineering/ckwalsh) (Remote host closed the connection)
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  635. # [20:22] <@frozenice> I actually had some fun putting this together :)
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  640. # [20:28] <@renoirb> Its powerful.
  641. # [20:30] <@frozenice> I just realized that we probably need to update it for the new flags :)
  642. # [20:35] * offSchub is now known as DenSchub
  643. # [20:42] * Quits: tandroid (~tandroid@71-218-171-208.hlrn.qwest.net) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  644. # [20:53] <+jensimmons> these debates about whether or not it’s easy to make certain kinds of lists of content make me really miss Drupal. In Drupal it’s a PIECE OF CAKE to make any kind of list you want based on any kind of querey. Ever. Any. And you can even expose the filters to the end user so they can click and reorder a list or filter based on whatever they want. Easy. We could switch…. Drupal. I’m just saying....
  645. # [20:55] * Quits: kitikonti (~kitikonti@188-22-75-194.adsl.highway.telekom.at) (Quit: Verlassend)
  646. # [20:58] <@renoirb> In fact, frozenice, I have a project on the side for this
  647. # [20:58] <@renoirb> At http://sandbox.webplatform.org/test/ its the latest (until two weeks ago)
  648. # [20:59] <@renoirb> http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/Special:Version <> http://sandbox.webplatform.org/test/Special:Version
  649. # [21:00] <@renoirb> jensimmons, i think that drupal will deprecate itself w/ Drupal 8. At last a PHP cms that uses a Real ORM.
  650. # [21:00] <@renoirb> just saying :)
  651. # [21:01] <+jensimmons> you think Drupal will die at v8?
  652. # [21:01] <+jensimmons> Is that what you mean?
  653. # [21:01] <@renoirb> no, that drupal < 8 will be obseleted
  654. # [21:01] <@renoirb> by Drupal 8
  655. # [21:01] <+jensimmons> oh taht always happens — but not right away. It takes a few years
  656. # [21:01] <+jensimmons> D8 will kill D6
  657. # [21:01] <+jensimmons> D7 will stick around until D9
  658. # [21:01] <+jensimmons> it’s about a 5 year cycle
  659. # [21:02] <+jensimmons> https://drupal.org/project/usage/drupal
  660. # [21:02] <dcervantes> Heavy adpotion for D8 won't pick up for about a year
  661. # [21:02] <+jensimmons> yup
  662. # [21:02] <+jensimmons> that’s true too
  663. # [21:02] <dcervantes> Maybe moreso
  664. # [21:02] <+jensimmons> well, and D8 won’t be out for a while yet either
  665. # [21:03] <dcervantes> Especially since there is a heavy paradigm shift for D8
  666. # [21:03] <+jensimmons> but Views module (which is what I was talking about ^^) has been AWESOME for years now. For D6. For D7… it doesn’t need D8
  667. # [21:04] <@Garbee> frozenice: You understand the API to the wiki system don't you? At least somewhat iirc.
  668. # [21:04] <@frozenice> yup
  669. # [21:04] <@renoirb> I have to tell that although I write PHP since always and that I hate MW's structure. I think that what isn't using Symfony2 or similar components is pointless. PHP can now do DependencyInjection, AspectOrientedProgramming, has a Real ORM similar to SQLAlchemy/Hibernate2 ... things that great other languages frameworks do. Other php framework aren't yet close to this.
  670. # [21:04] <@Garbee> Do you know if it is possible to grab a users commit/change history times only?
  671. # [21:05] * @Garbee is reading WPD:API now to see if it may link to somewhere that would tell me.
  672. # [21:05] <@renoirb> Hi dcervantes, never seen you around. Hi!
  673. # [21:05] <@renoirb> But we are not to change complete CMS infrastructure for the sake of changing. We are gradually creating components to have greater flexibility.
  674. # [21:06] * Joins: lmcliste_ (~lmclister@192.150.10.210)
  675. # [21:06] <@renoirb> In the meantime we build all the surrounding components, people can actually work on the content (what we need most).
  676. # [21:06] <@frozenice> Garbee: so basically this list but only the timestamps? http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Frozenice
  677. # [21:06] <@Garbee> Looks like it will be a part of the default MediaWiki API if available.
  678. # [21:06] <@Garbee> frozenice: yup.
  679. # [21:07] <@Garbee> frozenice: I want to give a shot at building a heatmapper: http://kamisama.github.io/cal-heatmap
  680. # [21:07] <@Garbee> ;)
  681. # [21:07] <@Garbee> Pull contribution data in via a username provided, and heatmap their contributions.
  682. # [21:07] * Quits: FeatheredSerpent (~Moai@unaffiliated/featheredserpent) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  683. # [21:07] <@frozenice> http://docs.webplatform.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=usercontribs&ucuser=Frozenice&uclimit=50&ucprop=timestamp
  684. # [21:08] <+eliezerb> frozenice: I never saw so well fromated SMW code
  685. # [21:08] <@Garbee> frozenice: I love you.
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  687. # [21:08] <@Garbee> :D
  688. # [21:08] <@Garbee> Thanks dude.
  689. # [21:08] <@renoirb> frozenice, do we have a way to know events to update a search index?
  690. # [21:08] <@frozenice> http://docs.webplatform.org/w/api.php search for list=usercontribs (uc) for more params Garbee
  691. # [21:08] <+eliezerb> frozenice: FIX: I never saw so well fromated SMW code **working**
  692. # [21:08] <@frozenice> you can filter the namespace etc
  693. # [21:08] <@renoirb> since you are here, i had in mind to ask you someday about it. So we could populate an ElasticSearch Index
  694. # [21:08] <@Garbee> Cool, I already did format=json to get it in the right output.
  695. # [21:09] <@frozenice> eliezerb: thanks :)
  696. # [21:09] <@frozenice> renoirb: events?
  697. # [21:10] <@renoirb> Sorry frozenice, if we could have a system that sends content of a page to an ElasticSearch index when it gets updated ("event", even though MW doesnt have the concept of it)
  698. # [21:11] <@renoirb> Unless we leverage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:EventLogging
  699. # [21:12] <@frozenice> only the RecentChanges log comes to mind
  700. # [21:12] <@renoirb> Ok, I think that the Extension:EventLogging will be much helpful to that then.
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  702. # [21:15] <@renoirb> the idea, frozenice, is that provided we can keep somewhere the URL of all page that gets changes, we have a process runner that reduces this queue and spits html content into an elastic search index.
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  704. # [21:15] <@renoirb> Later on, we'd serve an ElasticSearch client to show the results
  705. # [21:15] <@frozenice> I guess you can do a simple extension that hooks the page updated event
  706. # [21:15] <@renoirb> that's what I just got to think
  707. # [21:16] <@renoirb> so, yeah. I forgot that capability when I started the subject :/
  708. # [21:16] <@renoirb> I might need Redis for some monitoring. maybe i'll use a special queue only for the index updates.
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  713. # [21:40] <@frozenice> jensimmons: If you click on a flag term, it should go to a list of all content with that flag — and it doesn't. <-- fixed!?
  714. # [21:40] <+jensimmons> oh wow
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  716. # [21:40] <+jensimmons> well, that's nice
  717. # [21:40] <@frozenice> might need to wait until each page is refreshed
  718. # [21:40] <@frozenice> http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/dom/Node/appendChild is
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The end :)