Options:
- # Session Start: Fri Apr 25 00:00:00 2014
- # Session Ident: #webplatform
- # [00:00] <@renoirb> shepazu, its not the same password as the /wiki/
- # [00:00] <@shepazu> renoirb, http://docs.webplatform.org/test/css/properties/border
- # [00:00] <@shepazu> it is for me
- # [00:00] <@renoirb> uhm.
- # [00:01] <@shepazu> resetting, just in case
- # [00:02] <@shepazu> renoirb, even the reset password is not working.
- # [00:03] <@renoirb> let me find
- # [00:04] <@shepazu> renoirb, nm, I sorted it out, but still don't know why it wasn't working
- # [00:04] <@shepazu> maybe caching?
- # [00:05] <@renoirb> i just tried everything
- # [00:05] <@renoirb> all worked.
- # [00:05] <@shepazu> eliezerb, why is there a blank entry in the options for page status?
- # [00:06] <+eliezerb> shepazu: I'm finding a way to get rid that
- # [00:06] <@shepazu> ok
- # [00:06] <+eliezerb> shepazu: But on the other fields, it is there also
- # [00:06] <@renoirb> login, logout, forgotten password link, got the email, logged in with the password in forgotten password temporary email, got page to change password, set new password there, it logged me in, then logged out, then logged in with that new password.
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- # [00:06] <@renoirb> I cannot tell what is the problem :#
- # [00:06] <@renoirb> :/
- # [00:06] * @renoirb is not yet acquainted with that keyboard
- # [00:07] <@shepazu> renoirb, nm, I worked around it, but it was broken
- # [00:07] <@renoirb> :/
- # [00:07] <+eliezerb> shepazu: I have to go, it will be great if jensimmons could give some suggestions for the form text
- # [00:07] <@shepazu> eliezerb, sure, thanks!
- # [00:08] <+eliezerb> shepazu: Later I will be online again to clean that up
- # [00:08] <@shepazu> eliezerb, cool
- # [00:08] <+eliezerb> shepazu: It's not ready, but soon it will be
- # [00:08] <+eliezerb> shepazu: Thank you!
- # [00:08] <@shepazu> eliezerb, where is the template URL?
- # [00:08] <@shepazu> I might work on it too
- # [00:09] <+eliezerb> Page Status http://docs.webplatform.org/test/Property:Page_Status
- # [00:09] <+eliezerb> Page Status Details http://docs.webplatform.org/test/Property:Page_Status_Details
- # [00:09] <+eliezerb> Template http://docs.webplatform.org/test/Template:Page_Status
- # [00:09] <+eliezerb> Form Template http://docs.webplatform.org/test/Template:Page_Status_Form_Section
- # [00:09] <@shepazu> thanks
- # [00:09] <+jensimmons> yay for progress!
- # [00:10] <+eliezerb> +1 to clean all the HTML on the templates
- # [00:12] <+jensimmons> let me know what it is you need from me. I’m not sure what “give some suggestions for the form text” means
- # [00:12] <+eliezerb> jensimmons: The messages in the form
- # [00:12] <+eliezerb> jensimmons: http://docs.webplatform.org/t/index.php?title=css/properties/border-radius&action=formedit
- # [00:12] <+eliezerb> " Please select below the actual status of this page. "
- # [00:13] <+eliezerb> "Insert here the details of the status for this page: "
- # [00:13] <+eliezerb> This kind of messages
- # [00:13] * +eliezerb brb
- # [00:13] <@shepazu> (the microsyntax)
- # [00:14] <+jensimmons> this? http://monosnap.com/image/5DRT54wwFhvv072BFQlbDkTW3SFAXU.png
- # [00:14] <+jensimmons> cool
- # [00:14] <@shepazu> oops, I mean, microcopy
- # [00:14] <@shepazu> yes, that bit
- # [00:19] <+jensimmons> this, I think: http://monosnap.com/image/X2xtWr3fhrbcG3cvJXEy1NibRIyZPh.png
- # [00:20] <+jensimmons> I don’t like “Page Status"
- # [00:20] <+jensimmons> I don’t like Page Status
- # [00:20] <+jensimmons> wtf, IRC… why is nothing showing up?
- # [00:20] <+jensimmons> hellO/
- # [00:21] <+eliezerb> jensimmons: We are listening
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- # [00:21] <+jensimmons> I like State better than status
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- # [00:22] <+jensimmons> And it’s not a “page” acutally — it’s a unit of content that might be displayed on a page, or in a list, or in an API… we should stay away from the idea that this CMS is for making “web pages"
- # [00:22] <@Garbee> Also, "Insert here the details of the status for this page:" Reads better as "Provide any extra details on the status here:"
- # [00:22] <+jensimmons> so…. just “State: [thing]” works
- # [00:22] <+jensimmons> I don’t think we need any directions like that
- # [00:22] <+jensimmons> ^
- # [00:22] <@Garbee> So, "Status Details: " then?
- # [00:22] <+jensimmons> It only basically says: “Use this dropdown menu to enter content into this CMS”
- # [00:22] <@Garbee> KISS
- # [00:23] <+jensimmons> which is obvious
- # [00:23] <+jensimmons> look at the drawing I drew. Can you see it
- # [00:23] <+jensimmons> ?
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- # [00:23] <+jensimmons> the one with the grey box & text?
- # [00:23] <@Garbee> oh
- # [00:23] <+jensimmons> I crossed out the parts we don’t need in red
- # [00:23] <@Garbee> sorry, I completely missed htat.
- # [00:23] <+jensimmons> all that “insert here” etc we can drop
- # [00:23] <+jensimmons> people know what a form does
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- # [00:24] <@Garbee> Yea, and you wrote in the text that should be there.
- # [00:24] * @Garbee agrees.
- # [00:24] <+jensimmons> it’s so funny how when making a form, it seems like all that stuff is needed. Such a strong habit to put it in.
- # [00:24] <+jensimmons> but really, it’s ok to leave it out
- # [00:24] <@Garbee> Yea, we are targeting devs...
- # [00:26] <+jensimmons> maybe this is even better for the text on the box...
- # [00:26] <+jensimmons> brb
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- # [00:27] <+jensimmons> sorry
- # [00:27] <+jensimmons> “What could be added or changed to make this Documentation better?"
- # [00:27] <+jensimmons> that works
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- # [00:28] <+jensimmons> “need” is too strong & judgemental. One question is better than two.
- # [00:37] <@shepazu> jensimmons, I'm no longer convinced we need to have the text field at all… we can't really search on the contents of that field anyway
- # [00:38] <+jensimmons> the text isn’t for searching — your right, there’s no seraching on that
- # [00:38] <@shepazu> and that's what the commenting/annotation system is for, to point out the specific flaws
- # [00:38] <+jensimmons> we’d have to go back to flags / taxonomy if seraching is the goal
- # [00:38] <+jensimmons> but I don’t think that’s it at all
- # [00:38] <+jensimmons> I think it’s a place for people who are helping to improve the docs to leave notes for each other
- # [00:39] <+jensimmons> and to leave “sorry, this isn’t as good as I wanted it to but I hope it’s better, will you other people help finish it” notes
- # [00:39] <@Garbee> Yea, +1 to dropping that input entirely.
- # [00:39] <@Garbee> Using the annotation system for it makes sense.
- # [00:39] <+jensimmons> -1 to dropping it
- # [00:39] <+jensimmons> the problem with expecting the anntation system to handle this need is that the annotation system is still a Whole Separate Thing
- # [00:39] <@Garbee> If we are going to have editors notes, let's actually make an Editor's Notes section.
- # [00:39] <+jensimmons> I still can’t even log in
- # [00:40] <@Garbee> something not tied to the status of the page at all.
- # [00:40] <+jensimmons> it’s not really functional yet
- # [00:40] <@Garbee> Yea, we kinda do need SSO...
- # [00:40] <@shepazu> jensimmons, renoir is making the annotation system have SSO with the main wiki
- # [00:40] <@Garbee> ugh. Too much softwares.
- # [00:40] <+jensimmons> once perhaps annotations is more proven & we see people using it… and we have single sign on, maybe we could drop the field then
- # [00:40] <+jensimmons> but for now, I thin kwe need it
- # [00:41] <+eliezerb> -1 to dropping
- # [00:41] <+jensimmons> it also has the advantage of Being Right There
- # [00:41] <+eliezerb> We could use that field to point tasks in the page to the new contributors
- # [00:42] <+jensimmons> annotations is good for discussion & debate, but once there’s consensus or a clean To-Do, this field is a place to make a note that’s not a big deal
- # [00:42] <+jensimmons> it’s not a ticket in a ticketing system, it’s not a separate thing to go look it — it’s Just Right There
- # [00:42] <+jensimmons> we could create it & then see how it goes
- # [00:43] <@Garbee> Well, why don't we do this. Add a true "Editors Notes" section. This way there is a place for people editing to put stuff (that isn't displayed on the page when rendered) to let other people editing know. Like, "Hey, this section needs some work. I just did it real quick on break to get something in place." or "Don't put ST back into this list or I'll hunt
- # [00:43] <@Garbee> you down." (just more thoughtfully phrased. ;) ) That way it isn't tied into the status of the document.
- # [00:43] <+jensimmons> um… I like just having a simple field
- # [00:43] <+jensimmons> the revision history hs a place for notes to log what’s been changed
- # [00:43] <+jensimmons> and to keep a rolling list / changelog
- # [00:43] <+jensimmons> already
- # [00:44] <+jensimmons> when we talked about this in the meeting Tues, it came up as a simplified way to capture what the flags were for.
- # [00:44] <+jensimmons> to just say — this needs an example
- # [00:44] <+jensimmons> this needs to be double-checked
- # [00:44] <@Garbee> Who looks at the revision history unless we are looking to rollback something or we are looking at who did something?
- # [00:44] <+jensimmons> this may be going to change
- # [00:45] <@Garbee> and that is assuming people use it properly.
- # [00:45] <@shepazu> that text area takes up a huge block of real estate at the top of the page, and its purpose and usage is vague, which is the same problem we encountered for the list of checkboxes. I'd prefer to remove it, or at least make it smaller
- # [00:45] <@Garbee> Plus I'm not sure what the revision history really has to do with what the document needs in the future to be ready.
- # [00:45] <+jensimmons> I just don’t think we need a more complicated Editor’s Notes thingy
- # [00:45] <+jensimmons> I don’t think we should add overhead
- # [00:45] <@shepazu> -1 to Editor's Notes
- # [00:46] <+jensimmons> and put the field in a separate place
- # [00:46] <@shepazu> I agree with Jen
- # [00:46] <+jensimmons> it’s too much work to understand & do something about
- # [00:46] <+jensimmons> and more work == less particpation
- # [00:46] <@Garbee> so what is a good way for editors to leave notes for other people looking at stuff? Just doing what I'm doing now and leaving an HTML comment in the section?
- # [00:46] <@shepazu> Garbee, that's what annotations are for.
- # [00:47] <@shepazu> we plan to finish that feature by the end of May
- # [00:47] <@Garbee> Yea, as if people will pay attention to those anymore they do the comments we have now in the sections.
- # [00:47] <@Garbee> I already left a note on the section comments "Do not add ST back to this list", 3 or 4 more times since then I have gone in and removed it.
- # [00:47] <+jensimmons> how about this?? http://monosnap.com/image/bzD0HXS1AAuDr7jwlRfykm64mumzY9.png
- # [00:48] <@shepazu> Garbee, the problem with the comments is that they have poor discoverability
- # [00:48] <@Garbee> Hopefully the HTML comment I left will get seen by editors.
- # [00:48] <@Garbee> jensimmons: added or change/ swapped with just "modified"?
- # [00:48] <@shepazu> jensimmons, can you make it a smaller text area, just a text field?
- # [00:48] <+jensimmons> wel, if we need a way for editors to leave each other notes about particular fields, let’s figure out a solution to that separately
- # [00:49] <+jensimmons> I think the text field should be a multi-line box, not a 255-char max one-line field, if that’s what you mean
- # [00:49] <@shepazu> jensimmons, why?
- # [00:49] <+jensimmons> actually I like “added or changed” better, I think
- # [00:50] <+jensimmons> because one-line boxes are super constraining, and I think we need more space than that
- # [00:50] <+jensimmons> we may not need more than 255 chars, but the one line is so visually constraining, those fields are more like 50-char max fields
- # [00:51] <@Garbee> Can't we reduce the size of the textbox using CSS or one of its attributes?
- # [00:52] <@Garbee> because they are made to expand if people want more space.
- # [00:52] <+eliezerb> Garbee: We can reduce in the SMW
- # [00:52] <+eliezerb> rows and cols
- # [00:52] <@Garbee> Yea, so keep textarea, but reduce the actual default size.
- # [00:52] <@shepazu> jensimmons, I'm still not convinced that people will know how to use this text area
- # [00:52] <+jensimmons> yeah we can do that
- # [00:52] <@Garbee> Nice compromise there.
- # [00:52] <+jensimmons> make the default box a bit smaller, but keep it a text area, not a one-liner
- # [00:53] <@shepazu> I think we need to keep it simpler
- # [00:53] <+jensimmons> we could discuss this next Tuesday — whether to have the field at all or not. I’d like to hear what Eliot thinks
- # [00:54] <@shepazu> I'll mention it on list, see if we can resolve it there
- # [00:54] <+jensimmons> the idea was proposed to replace the functionality of the flag data….
- # [00:54] <+jensimmons> yeah email… it’s just hard to do good design in chat
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- # [00:54] <+jensimmons> if not impossible
- # [00:55] <@Garbee> Well, we shouldn't be making non-trivial decisions based purely on IRC conversation anyways. :P
- # [00:55] <@shepazu> I don' t think this is a critical decision
- # [00:55] <+jensimmons> I think these two fields should be linked together — that’s what that grey box represents. A kind of WHY is this Doc in this state?
- # [00:55] <+jensimmons> We just marked it “Almost Done” — what’s “almost” about it
- # [00:55] <+jensimmons> ?
- # [00:56] <@Garbee> shepazu: This is a part of the templates, which are a PITA to modify later on. Each thing done to this should be discussed thoroughly.
- # [00:56] <+jensimmons> oh… it’s waiting for Compatilbity Tables? Ok, then there’s nothing to edit manually
- # [00:56] <+jensimmons> or oh, this needs an example? Ok, I could help with that
- # [00:56] <+eliezerb> We can hide the field if the page is ready...
- # [00:56] <@shepazu> I'd like it better if the field disappeared when the page is marked "done"
- # [00:56] <+jensimmons> that might be a good idea
- # [00:57] <@Garbee> Wow, I thought that was always the plan.
- # [00:58] <+jensimmons> I like the idea that the page is marked “In Progress” or “Almost Done” and then when a person clicks on a little icon or something (when *reading* the page, not editing it), the contents of this page is revealed. With a tiny ad of some kind encouraging people to help out...
- # [00:58] <+jensimmons> not sure what that should look like yet
- # [00:58] <+jensimmons> but I don’t think that this note should be displayed on the page for readers by default. It should only appear upon request or something
- # [00:58] <+jensimmons> imo
- # [00:59] <+eliezerb> I agree
- # [01:00] <+jensimmons> we could start with it not displaying at all, and then create something that works to display it upon request — after we’ve figured out how to display the state itself
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- # [04:16] <+eliezerb> hey shepazu!
- # [04:17] <+eliezerb> Some conclusion about the States? Or let's wait until next meeting?
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- # [04:21] <@shepazu> eliezerb, you mean with the text area?
- # [04:21] <+eliezerb> Everythin
- # [04:21] <+eliezerb> About the Template names
- # [04:22] <+eliezerb> Name convention
- # [04:22] <+eliezerb> And so on
- # [04:22] <@shepazu> I don't think it's woth arguing anymore, just go with Jen's suggestions
- # [04:22] <@shepazu> it's pretty minor
- # [04:22] <+eliezerb> So let's rename to State
- # [04:22] <+eliezerb> and State Detail
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- # [04:22] <+eliezerb> instead of "Page Status"
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- # [04:30] <@shepazu> sounds good
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- # [04:33] <+eliezerb> I'll work on that for a couple of hours, then I mail the ML, thanks for the patience shepazu
- # [04:33] <@shepazu> no, thank you, eliezerb, you're the one doing the work
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- # [06:09] <+eliezerb> shepazu: Just sent the email :) Now it's way much better than before
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- # [06:10] <@shepazu> cool
- # [06:10] <+eliezerb> Before: the old template code mixed with flags
- # [06:10] <+eliezerb> If you see something weird just mail me, then I can fix
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- # [18:55] <@renoirb> Its like I never had water spilled on my laptop
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- # Session Close: Sat Apr 26 00:00:00 2014
The end :)