/irc-logs / freenode / #webplatform / 2014-05-13 / end

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  137. # [17:48] * @renoirb *cough*, cough
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  146. # [18:55] <+jensimmons> hiya
  147. # [19:00] <@shepazu> hi, jensimmons
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  150. # [19:02] <AmeliaBR> jensimmons: did you get a call-in solution figured out?
  151. # [19:02] <+jensimmons> https://talky.io
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  154. # [19:06] <AmeliaBR> shepazu & Julee: Discussing scheduling of telecon re DocSprint Europe
  155. # [19:06] <AmeliaBR> ... was scheduled for February, but will try to reschedule
  156. # [19:07] <AmeliaBR> February <-> Friday
  157. # [19:08] <AmeliaBR> eliot: reminder that Jay had asked for suggestion of topics for DocSprint
  158. # [19:08] <AmeliaBR> Julee: Should anyone be working on the Javascript import review?
  159. # [19:08] <AmeliaBR> eliot: If anyone wants to sure, but he can do it in-house at MS if necessary
  160. # [19:08] * jswisher is in the channel but not on the call
  161. # [19:09] <AmeliaBR> shepazu: I don't think it would hurt to invite people to work on JS clean-up
  162. # [19:09] <AmeliaBR> eliot: would be a task for people who don't have a lot of other experience
  163. # [19:10] <AmeliaBR> doug: if SVG is main focus, need to make sure people are familiar
  164. # [19:10] <AmeliaBR> ... will discuss further when everyone involved with DocSprint is available (i.e., rescheduled telcon)
  165. # [19:11] <AmeliaBR> (doug == shepazu)
  166. # [19:11] <AmeliaBR> NEW TOPIC: Topic page formatting
  167. # [19:11] <AmeliaBR> All agreed, minus sarcasm from shepazu, that tables are ugly and confusing
  168. # [19:12] <AmeliaBR> Jen: Should only have title, not path, should be list not table
  169. # [19:12] <AmeliaBR> http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/css/properties
  170. # [19:13] <AmeliaBR> ^^Example of inline query structure
  171. # [19:14] <AmeliaBR> Alternative result formats for queries: http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Result_formats
  172. # [19:15] <AmeliaBR> jensimmons: Would be nice to condense long lists as hierachy, possibly toggle-able
  173. # [19:15] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  174. # [19:17] <AmeliaBR> AmeliaBR: I can work on this eventually, but have other commitments already
  175. # [19:18] <AmeliaBR> shepazu: is there someone else who get experiment with these queries to figure out better output? Can we reach out beyond our usual core of contributors?
  176. # [19:18] <AmeliaBR> who get <-> who can
  177. # [19:18] <+eliezerb> AmeliaBR: I did some work with SMW Queries
  178. # [19:19] <@renoirb> :P~
  179. # [19:19] <@shepazu> eliezerb, do you have time to help with this formatting issue?
  180. # [19:20] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  181. # [19:20] <+eliezerb> shepazu: Yes, I just need to fresh my memory about those queries, but I'm always here to help
  182. # [19:20] <+eliezerb> :-)
  183. # [19:20] <@shepazu> eliezerb, let's talk after the call
  184. # [19:20] <+eliezerb> cool
  185. # [19:21] <eliot> Can I throw out there that this could be a list with more details on hover or another means?
  186. # [19:21] <AmeliaBR> Plan would be (a) replace index tables with query lists (b) examine more nuanced options when lists are really long
  187. # [19:21] <AmeliaBR> NEW TOPIC: Readiness markers
  188. # [19:22] <@renoirb> shepazu: http://www.w3.org/mid/CAB0bRKOCzGOzrHESCEgT2mNecvyOkQ+bU_19wvpWFPJeie2FHw@mail.gmail.com
  189. # [19:22] <@renoirb> is one of them
  190. # [19:22] * kaustavdm|away is now known as kaustavdm
  191. # [19:23] <@renoirb> This one has a lot of images http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webplatform/2014May/0044.html
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  194. # [19:23] <AmeliaBR> jensimmons: discussing different sample images
  195. # [19:23] <AmeliaBR> eliot: I find angled ribbon distracting
  196. # [19:24] <AmeliaBR> shepazu, renoir, AmeliaBR agree
  197. # [19:24] <AmeliaBR> renoirb: sidebar is neater
  198. # [19:25] <AmeliaBR> eliot: also similar to status markers on W3 specs
  199. # [19:25] <AmeliaBR> shepazu: agreed. Was that the intention?
  200. # [19:26] <AmeliaBR> jensimmons: not originally, but I recognized the similarity
  201. # [19:26] <AmeliaBR> ...there are two versions: square stripe up to the bar, or with a circle end to mimic the logo
  202. # [19:27] <AmeliaBR> eliot: I like the rounded version, webplatform's version of w3 status markers
  203. # [19:27] * Bad_Advice_Cat is now known as \Bad\Advice\Cat
  204. # [19:28] <AmeliaBR> renoirb: I like look, but I don't know how to do this without abuse of absolute positioning
  205. # [19:28] <AmeliaBR> jensimmons: should be possible, would like to have top of stripe move with page but words stay fixed as you scroll
  206. # [19:29] <AmeliaBR> jensimmons: also still need to work with colours
  207. # [19:29] * @renoirb +1 vertical bar + rivet
  208. # [19:29] <AmeliaBR> ...what do people think? Home page colour set versus more intuitive green-red sequence
  209. # [19:30] <AmeliaBR> ...want colour meaning to be obvious when someone first lands on a page
  210. # [19:31] <AmeliaBR> eliot: is the green-yellow-red meaning culturally independent?
  211. # [19:32] <AmeliaBR> jensimmons: green-yellow-red traffic signals seem to be fairly universal
  212. # [19:32] <AmeliaBR> julee: with the words as well, there is flexibility in the colours
  213. # [19:32] <AmeliaBR> eliot: because of the words, we can choose colours that are a little more attractive
  214. # [19:33] <AmeliaBR> jensimmons: colours should always be secondary for accessibility reasons, but colours shouldn't be confusing
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  217. # [19:34] <AmeliaBR> renoirb: another option is to incorporate icons/shapes
  218. # [19:35] <AmeliaBR> shepazu: don't want to dwell on colours, but am concerned about contrast issues with yellow background
  219. # [19:35] <AmeliaBR> ...could just swap purple and red from current colour scheme
  220. # [19:36] <@renoirb> +1 on colors choice to Jen. BTW, I like the color choice anyway
  221. # [19:36] <AmeliaBR> julee: we can always do something, then adjust based on feedback
  222. # [19:36] <@renoirb> Anyway, we aren't stuck on old IE versions so text and colors won't need images :)
  223. # [19:36] <AmeliaBR> shepazu: work on the design and layout first, changing colours later is easy
  224. # [19:38] <AmeliaBR> jensimmons: worried about terms "coming later" is problematic, suggests that people shouldn't work on this
  225. # [19:39] <AmeliaBR> AmeliaBR: "not started" might be confusing on an unreviewed import page
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  227. # [19:40] * @renoirb just thought about "needs some love"
  228. # [19:40] <@renoirb> +1 "needs work"
  229. # [19:40] <AmeliaBR> shepazu: "needs work"
  230. # [19:40] <@renoirb> q+
  231. # [19:40] <AmeliaBR> jensimmons: "needs work" is good, since it encourages contribution
  232. # [19:41] <AmeliaBR> shepazu: sounds good for now, this isn't hard to change later
  233. # [19:42] <AmeliaBR> ...given the prominence, is it clear that status refers to article not specs
  234. # [19:43] <AmeliaBR> AmeliaBR: example text box was "This article is..." but that's lost in graphic examples
  235. # [19:43] <AmeliaBR> renoirb: although we want to move warnings out of the way for good content, maybe a big warning box is a good idea in Not Started pages
  236. # [19:44] <AmeliaBR> jensimmons: how to efficiently inform people of ongoing projects?
  237. # [19:44] <AmeliaBR> shepazu: should we not have a marker on pages that are ready to use
  238. # [19:45] <AmeliaBR> jensimmons: I think it's important to establish a consistent pattern
  239. # [19:45] <AmeliaBR> ...maybe two years from now, when most pages are ready to use, we can drop the notice
  240. # [19:46] <AmeliaBR> shepazu: I like the sidebar status concept, when status is more consistent in future we can consider a different way of doing this
  241. # [19:47] <AmeliaBR> ...e.g. for now we're using compatibility as tables, similar to MDN, in future that might change
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  244. # [19:48] <AmeliaBR> (tangent on how to display compatibility info tabled until future)
  245. # [19:49] <AmeliaBR> jensimmons: for now, let's use "Ready to Use"
  246. # [19:50] <AmeliaBR> AmeliaBR: should we still put the template up for now, with a <div> for the text?
  247. # [19:50] <AmeliaBR> jensimmons: Yes, add a line of html at a place where it makes sense as plain text/screen reader/api
  248. # [19:51] <AmeliaBR> renoirb: might be able to add info in http headers as well
  249. # [19:52] <@renoirb> ... I think its possible to query through PHP result of your work AmeliaBR and i'd do HTTP headers.
  250. # [19:52] <@renoirb> shepazu: talking about scheduling template updates
  251. # [19:52] <AmeliaBR> shepazu: Action to AmeliaBR: please go ahead with template to add this info for jensimmons to use for styling
  252. # [19:52] <+jensimmons> <div class=“readiness-marker”>This article is <a href=“”>Ready to Use</a></div>
  253. # [19:52] <@renoirb> ... renoirb asks to know when, he'll take care of ensuring it doesnt blow the server :)
  254. # [19:53] <@renoirb> note that the next site in /upgrade/ will possibly prevent current problems
  255. # [19:53] <AmeliaBR> shepazu: IMPORTANT note: any changes to templates should be scheduled and renoirb should be warned, so that the server queue doesn't crash
  256. # [19:53] <+jensimmons> That HTML should also be the fallback for any browsers that can’t use the CSS we write to make the text verticle. Old IE, etc.
  257. # [19:54] <@renoirb> Thanks for touching base with me AmeliaBR
  258. # [19:54] <AmeliaBR> renoirb: timing not essential, but I need to know. Hopefully, next server upgrade will take care of problem
  259. # [19:55] <@renoirb> server upgrade is basically MediaWiki+SMW software upgrade
  260. # [19:56] <@renoirb> (Ubuntu server version isn't related to the possible factor of improvement on this particular issue)
  261. # [19:56] <AmeliaBR> shepazu: Once we have readiness flags up, we will have to go through and set good pages to ready/almost done/etc.
  262. # [19:56] * \Bad\Advice\Cat is now known as Bad_Advice_Cat
  263. # [19:57] <AmeliaBR> shepazu: if we're going to be walking through and cataloguing, there is also the API syntax index issues, although that could also be done at a DocSprint
  264. # [19:57] <@renoirb> SMW problem is basically: A widely used template called into another page creates jobs inside mediawiki. There is a bug in SMW when MW job queue is run that creates sub tasks... creating thousands and thousands of jobs.
  265. # [19:58] <@julee> Sorry. Have to run…
  266. # [19:58] <AmeliaBR> ...we need to figure out timing. Should we still be doing this on test wiki when we don't have a scheduled?
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  268. # [19:59] <AmeliaBR> jensimmons: we should have a default, maybe nothing prints if no value set, or just a small line out of sight?
  269. # [20:00] <AmeliaBR> AmeliaBR: we can do that, just not print if there is no value set in the form
  270. # [20:00] <AmeliaBR> jensimmons: are we still going to have details note box?
  271. # [20:01] <AmeliaBR> AmeliaBR: last plan was details/notes would be in form, but not in the page
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  275. # [20:03] <AmeliaBR> ...the status would link to definition page, which would also tell people to edit page to see details
  276. # [20:03] <AmeliaBR> shepazu: What's the plan?
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  278. # [20:03] <AmeliaBR> AmeliaBR: I will get things ready to go on test wiki, then roll out on main. What is default?
  279. # [20:04] <AmeliaBR> jensimmons: default should be nothing displays until the page status has been set.
  280. # [20:04] <@renoirb> We can dry run on the /upgrade/ wiki too
  281. # [20:04] <AmeliaBR> jensimmons: I will be working on the CSS
  282. # [20:04] <@renoirb> jensimmons, AmeliaBR ^
  283. # [20:04] <AmeliaBR> Thanks renoirb.
  284. # [20:04] <@renoirb> I can make you admin there, or just drop the database and import a new snapshot off of the live site.
  285. # [20:05] <+jensimmons> Thanks everyone!!!! I think this readiness state stuff is really good!
  286. # [20:05] <+jensimmons> I will help people understand WPD — how to use it, and how to help
  287. # [20:05] <@renoirb> Next time, AmeliaBR, i'll scribe
  288. # [20:06] <AmeliaBR> renoirb: whichever works for you (re upgrade wiki). And I'll remind you if you're late next week!
  289. # [20:06] <@renoirb> np AmeliaBR.
  290. # [20:07] <@renoirb> I'm busy full time on authentication ATM, if you have technical worries, just ping me
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The end :)