/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2007-03-26 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Mar 26 00:00:00 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  10. # [01:16] <Lachy_> good morning everyone :-)
  11. # [01:17] <zcorpan> Lachy_: morning
  12. # [01:23] <Lachy_> does anyone have a clue what David Daley's latest post on public-html is going on about? He seems to go from word art to physics to markup in one sentence :-/
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  29. # [03:49] <Dashiva> So speaking of canvas, it has width and height attributes of type long. The content attributes are defined as non-negative integers. Shouldn't the DOM attributes be unsigned long then?
  30. # [03:50] <Lachy_> Dashiva: you should raise that on the mailing list
  31. # [03:52] <Philip`> I've just raised that already
  32. # [03:52] <Philip`> (Well, I didn't explicitly say they should be unsigned long, but I assume that's the logical conclusion)
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  34. # [03:53] <Dashiva> Lachy: It was a real question. Canvas is never going to use the upper half of an unsigned long, either type will have a huge unused number space, so the end result wouldn't really change
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  36. # [03:54] <Lachy_> so then what's the problem?
  37. # [03:55] <Dashiva> "Should attributes defined to be non-negative always use unsigned long?"
  38. # [03:56] <Lachy_> I don't know. Could it break anything if it were changed?
  39. # [03:57] <Philip`> <img> uses signed long DOM attributes and non-negative [or non-negative percentage] content attributes, but they're not reflecting so it's not a problem
  40. # [03:57] <othermaciej> in ECMAScript they are all IEEE doubles anyway
  41. # [03:57] <othermaciej> so at most this would matter for behavior when you assign an invalid value
  42. # [03:58] <othermaciej> note that unsigned long a 64-bit integer, and an IEEE double can't even address all its values
  43. # [04:01] <Philip`> If you set canvas.width to 4294967296+200, then it gets converted to 200 in every browser, so they seem to be using 32-bit integers
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  45. # [04:04] <othermaciej> oh, I guess long is 32-bit in IDL
  46. # [04:04] <othermaciej> my mistake
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  59. # [04:42] <zcorpan> http://www.oreillynet.com/xml/blog/2007/03/restarting_the_html_engine.html?CMP=OTC-TY3388567169&ATT=Re-starting+the+HTML+Engine
  60. # [04:43] <othermaciej> what's HTML 4.3?
  61. # [04:44] <zcorpan> there's so much wrong in that article
  62. # [04:44] * moeffju is now known as moeffju[afk]
  63. # [04:45] <zcorpan> in the second comment: "Actually most browsers do have the ability to determine whether an HTML document is valid or not"
  64. # [04:46] <othermaciej> wow, that guy has no idea
  65. # [04:46] <othermaciej> about... anything
  66. # [04:46] <othermaciej> candidate for most clueless sentence: "It is likely that an HTML 5.0 DTD would in fact allow for a valid XHTML1 or XHTML2 schema as one potential use case."
  67. # [04:46] <zcorpan> yeah that one amused me too
  68. # [04:47] <Lachy_> I'm only up to the 3rd paragraph, and already come across countless mistakes. Please tell me it gets better?
  69. # [04:47] <zcorpan> sorry dude
  70. # [04:48] <othermaciej> reading this hurts my eyes and brain
  71. # [04:48] <Lachy_> ok, I'll read it after lunch then
  72. # [04:48] <zcorpan> wonder if it's worth commenting
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  74. # [04:55] <zcorpan> added to http://del.icio.us/zcorpan anyway
  75. # [04:57] <zcorpan> (my "whatwg" tags are feedback, the rest are just bookmarks)
  76. # [04:58] * moeffju[afk] is now known as moeffju
  77. # [05:03] <zcorpan> "Probably ought to join at least the whatwg lists; W3C could get scary after a tmie..." -- http://del.icio.us/url/7186620143093f814e8a0652b169d7d3
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  92. # [06:40] <marcosc> is anyone else having problems loading http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/ in firefox?
  93. # [06:40] <marcosc> I've tried on two different machines. It seems fine in IE?
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  95. # [06:53] <marcosc> Hixie, can you please fix (or remove) the print style from http://www.whatwg.org/style/specification
  96. # [06:53] <marcosc> Currently it's set to:
  97. # [06:53] <marcosc> @media print {
  98. # [06:53] <marcosc> html { font-size: 10pt; }
  99. # [06:53] <marcosc> }
  100. # [06:53] <marcosc> please either leave the spec to use browser defaults or set font-size to something (much) larger. I just tried to print the latest draft of the spec on using 2 pages per sheet and the spec is unreadable. Lets not make people waste paper unessasarily, I personally feel bad enough about my environmental track record :(
  101. # [06:55] <zcorpan> marcosc: i think hsivonen has a better print style sheet
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  103. # [06:56] <marcosc> zcorpan, hopefully the spec can point to that instead :)
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  105. # [06:58] <marcosc> On my machine, IE7 also really struggles with rendering the spec. It think it might be getting too big.
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  115. # [09:57] * Topic is 'WHATWG (HTML5) -- http://www.whatwg.org/ -- Logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  116. # [09:57] * Set by Hixie on Thu Mar 22 01:25:40
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  118. # [10:14] <hsivonen> what happened to the old whatbot logs?
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  131. # [11:33] <Lachy> hsivonen, I think Charl and krijnh are going to recover the old logs
  132. # [11:39] <krijnh> Yeah
  133. # [11:40] <krijnh> Sorry for not having already
  134. # [11:40] <krijnh> I have to copy every file by hand :)
  135. # [11:40] <krijnh> Ow, and I have to work
  136. # [11:42] <krijnh> Regarding that, it's hard selling a CMS without a WYSIWYG editor :]
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  139. # [12:28] <hendry> omg, re "HTML should be replaced by Flash" msg
  140. # [12:28] <Lachy> oh gosh, I wonder why he posted that to the list :-/
  141. # [12:29] <hendry> He must be troll.
  142. # [12:29] <krijnh> Or just a joke
  143. # [12:29] <krijnh> To show how his colleague thinks about the web
  144. # [12:29] <krijnh> Let's ignore :)
  145. # [12:29] <hendry> joke/trolling is the same in my book
  146. # [12:29] <Lachy> jokes are ok sometimes, trolling isn't
  147. # [12:30] <hendry> well this is a bad joke ;)
  148. # [12:30] <Lachy> well, I suppose I laugh at both and don't reply to either
  149. # [12:30] * hendry sobs
  150. # [12:30] * krijnh doesn't understand the xml input thing
  151. # [12:33] <Dashiva> Maybe it's art
  152. # [12:35] <krijnh> "Expert users could use generic XML editors while children and grandparents would probably prefer more human friendly input tools, restricted to specific schemas." - the latter should still be a generic XML editor, right?
  153. # [12:41] <virtuelv> hendry: url for that msg?
  154. # [12:42] <krijnh> virtuelv: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007JanMar/0516.html
  155. # [12:43] <virtuelv> heh, now -that's- a troll
  156. # [12:43] <Dashiva> krijnh: Well, theoretically the schema could be turned into a BBcode like editor, with buttons for various tags with prompting for attributes and whatnot
  157. # [12:44] <Dashiva> That would be friendly, but probably a nightmare to create
  158. # [12:45] <krijnh> So in stead of <foo> you'd have [foo]
  159. # [12:46] <Dashiva> Oh, badly worded. I meant editor like the BBcode ones used in forums and the like
  160. # [12:47] <krijnh> Or like WordPress
  161. # [12:48] <krijnh> Which knows about semantics, a bit
  162. # [12:48] <Dashiva> Haven't used it, but I imagine there are many similar cases
  163. # [12:48] <Dashiva> The problem would be turning a schema into the right buttons, I think
  164. # [12:49] <krijnh> And the generated foo into something on your screen, if you want wysiwyg
  165. # [12:50] <Dashiva> I figured the xml input thingie would only be for actual xml and no presentation?
  166. # [12:50] <krijnh> Then I don't get how children/grandparents could benefit
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  168. # [12:52] <Dashiva> Well, they would press buttons and answer questions presented (about values, atts, etc), and not be writing it directly
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  258. # [18:24] <krijnh> marcosc: If my server breaks, I hold you responsible ;)
  259. # [18:25] <marcosc> no probs
  260. # [18:26] <marcosc> Krijnh, what are we talking about?
  261. # [18:26] <krijnh> marcosc: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007JanMar/0527.html
  262. # [18:27] <marcosc> Ah! Welcome!!! :D
  263. # [18:30] <tylerr> I was a bit scared this morning when I opened my e-mail to 100+ messages. :)
  264. # [18:31] <krijnh> marcosc: How fast is my server anyway? Can't test it here, since it's in my LAN
  265. # [18:33] <marcosc> krijnh, I'm lost, sorry?
  266. # [18:33] <krijnh> krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/
  267. # [18:33] <krijnh> How are does files served?
  268. # [18:33] <marcosc> oh, it's good
  269. # [18:33] <krijnh> Hmm, k
  270. # [18:34] <marcosc> sorry, It's 2:30am for me and I'm trying to have 5 conversations at the same time while debugging... :(
  271. # [18:34] <krijnh> Ah, hehe
  272. # [18:34] <krijnh> Well, 18:38 here, diner time
  273. # [18:35] <marcosc> enjoy!
  274. # [18:35] <krijnh> Nn ;)
  275. # [18:35] <tylerr> Goodness I'd be happy if it were dinner time! I just got in to work 40 minutes ago. :(
  276. # [18:36] <marcosc> krijnh, so I guess I totally mistook your comments about IRC. I thought you were avoiding IRC and there you were actually doing the logging!
  277. # [18:40] <Philip`> krijnh: I get a consistent 50KB/sec downloading the logs from that site, so it's about a second to reload a log page, which seems fast enough (though it could be nice to enable compression if that's easy)
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  279. # [18:41] * marcosc as a rule should just not make comments on public mailing lists.
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  281. # [18:45] <zcorpan_> http://waffle.wootest.net/2007/03/24/now-in-glorious-html5/
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  309. # [21:43] * tylerr wonders how the communication flow is going to take shape for the HTMLWG.
  310. # [21:45] <othermaciej> I think we need an issue tracker, but people who can't follow the flow of IRC or even email are going to be less informed and less up to speed
  311. # [21:45] * tylerr nods.
  312. # [21:45] <othermaciej> but we still want those people to be able to participate, and they need an issue tracker or the like
  313. # [21:46] <tylerr> Something akin to a bug tracker/ticket system?
  314. # [21:47] <gsnedders> WHATWG's is Hixie's magical memory, right?
  315. # [21:48] <tylerr> Magical what? :-)
  316. # [21:48] <kingryan> gsnedders: it's hixie's inbox
  317. # [21:49] <gsnedders> kingryan: I know, but that's a boring explanation :P
  318. # [21:49] <othermaciej> I think the "hixie's inbox" system is great for hixie but not so much for people who are not him
  319. # [21:49] <gsnedders> especially with the WG wanted to be more open
  320. # [21:49] <gsnedders> *wanting
  321. # [21:49] <tylerr> Well if we're looking for online solutions...
  322. # [21:49] <tylerr> http://www.solutionwatch.com/578/a-roundup-for-developers-developers-developers/
  323. # [21:50] <tylerr> There's a whole slew of tools to consider.
  324. # [21:50] <gsnedders> as long as we don't choose something with an unusable UI
  325. # [21:51] <tylerr> This is the world of "Web 2.0", everything has a pretty UI these days. ;-)
  326. # [21:54] <othermaciej> adding more separate places where discussion takes place probably won't help the people who feel overwhelmed
  327. # [21:54] <gsnedders> I want a single point of communication
  328. # [21:55] <gsnedders> having multiple places means you don't have a discussion with everyone invovled
  329. # [21:55] <othermaciej> just having IRC and mail is bad enough
  330. # [21:55] <gsnedders> agreed
  331. # [21:55] <othermaciej> but IRC is more responsive and has lower cognitive load per message
  332. # [21:55] <gsnedders> but is harder to catch up on
  333. # [21:55] <othermaciej> whereas mail is more inclusive of asynchronous participants
  334. # [21:56] <gsnedders> anything asynchronous is easier to catch up on, as people have to make their points in a single message
  335. # [21:56] <tylerr> It's going to be a persistant problem.
  336. # [21:57] <tylerr> People needing to catch-up and asking for explaination/follow-up, while those that were part of the original discussion will want to move forward.
  337. # [21:57] <Dashiva> I think making the email archive more forumy could go a long way
  338. # [21:58] <tylerr> So that posts to the list auto-generate replies in forum topics?
  339. # [22:00] <Dashiva> Well, make the archives look more like a forum with automatic thread view, all mail in one thread on the same page, stuff like that
  340. # [22:01] <tylerr> I'd code something up to do that but I don't have the chops. :)
  341. # [22:01] * Joins: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@1433bhost147.starwoodbroadband.com)
  342. # [22:01] <Dashiva> You could make a fullfledged hybrid where a bot posts incoming mail in threads, and sends mail based on forum replies, but that is overdoing it IMO
  343. # [22:01] <Dashiva> Personally, I believe the thread structure of a forum is too static for this kind of work
  344. # [22:01] <tylerr> Haha yeah. We're here for HTML, not a new parsing/publishing tool. :)
  345. # [22:02] <tylerr> I agree.
  346. # [22:02] <Dashiva> Almost every email in the list with significant replies has branched noticably
  347. # [22:04] <Dashiva> On the other hand, I can fully understand that anyone stuck with a webmail client would love a forum
  348. # [22:04] <tylerr> Aye.
  349. # [22:05] <tylerr> I've mentioned Campfire a few times before, but the consensus always returns to straight IRC.
  350. # [22:06] * Joins: mpt (n=mpt@121-72-132-31.dsl.telstraclear.net)
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  352. # [22:06] <othermaciej> tylerr: better archive views (threaded spanning month blocks for instance) would help for people catching up
  353. # [22:07] <othermaciej> tylerr: but I don't think we can ask the group to go slower to help the people who have less time to follow
  354. # [22:07] <tylerr> Sure, that's just not good for the pace of the WG.
  355. # [22:07] <Dashiva> Yeah, thread grouping should take priority over time grouping
  356. # [22:08] <othermaciej> ultimately there will be a final review period
  357. # [22:08] <othermaciej> but I think planning a feature freeze milestone and sticking to discussion of larger features before then may actually help
  358. # [22:09] <othermaciej> so "should we add <video> and how should it work?" would take precedence over things like <acronym> vs <abbr>
  359. # [22:09] <othermaciej> but I also think establishing shared design principles up front is good
  360. # [22:09] <tylerr> Let me know if I'm pushing Campfire too much, but one account gives you access to create multiple "rooms", which have their own log search capabilities. Discussions can be mitigated to individual rooms where discussion can take place and will be logged by both time and "thread".
  361. # [22:09] * Quits: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@1433bhost147.starwoodbroadband.com) ("The computer fell asleep")
  362. # [22:10] <tylerr> So a <video> room could be created for all discussions related to video, and logs would be easily accessible and readible by anyone.
  363. # [22:10] <Dashiva> Sounds like a forum with subforums to me, tylerr
  364. # [22:10] * Joins: briansuda (n=briansud@bokd050.rhi.hi.is)
  365. # [22:10] <tylerr> Sure, but it has the dynamic level of chat.
  366. # [22:11] <tylerr> Here's a snapshot of the transcript section.
  367. # [22:11] <tylerr> http://campfirenow.com/images/tourshot-transcripts.png
  368. # [22:12] <othermaciej> tylerr: or we could make #htmlwg-video and log that
  369. # [22:12] <tylerr> Sure.
  370. # [22:12] <othermaciej> tylerr: I'm wary of claims that changing to a different chat program will somehow make things better
  371. # [22:13] <tylerr> I'm am as well. I'm just throwing options out there. I'm completely happy with IRC myself. :-)
  372. # [22:13] <tylerr> I just know some people are warry of it.
  373. # [22:14] <Dashiva> We could spend four years designing IRC 2.0
  374. # [22:14] <gsnedders> surely IRC 5.0?
  375. # [22:14] <gsnedders> :P
  376. # [22:14] <gsnedders> (can we please add a way to declare encoding!?)
  377. # [22:15] <Dashiva> No
  378. # [22:15] <Dashiva> Forced unicode!
  379. # [22:17] <gsnedders> well, specifying an encoding is one way of declaring an encoding :)
  380. # [22:17] <gsnedders> as it declares it in the spec
  381. # [22:17] <Dashiva> Well, IRC is specified to pass octets. The end client decides what to do with them. Isn't that good enough? :)
  382. # [22:18] <tylerr> Heh
  383. # [22:18] <tylerr> Okay, just for fun, here's a campfire room I've set up. Only four people can come in, but feel free to take a look: http://htmlwg.campfirenow.com/01ff9
  384. # [22:23] <bewest> isn't campfire proprietary?
  385. # [22:23] <tylerr> bewest: Yep, service run by 37signals.
  386. # [22:25] <bewest> I would suggest that might be a reason that your suggestion doesn't gain much traction
  387. # [22:25] * Quits: ROBOd (n=robod@86.34.246.154) ("http://www.robodesign.ro")
  388. # [22:26] <tylerr> I'd gather as much, but sometimes there just isn't an opensource solution readily available, else I'd be all over it.
  389. # [22:27] <bewest> maybe that's why IRC is so popular
  390. # [22:27] <bewest> readily available, widely deployed, well supported
  391. # [22:27] <bewest> it's not old, it's proven
  392. # [22:28] <bewest> and open
  393. # [22:28] <bewest> and it's extensible using bots
  394. # [22:28] <Dashiva> It's open in theory, but every ircd seems to do things differently. Could use a new rfc to standardize things added since 1976
  395. # [22:28] <Dashiva> (year made up for humorous effect)
  396. # [22:29] <tylerr> Sure. I agree with your points, and I'm going to keep mentioning that I openly support IRC as our communication tool. I'm just open to suggesting other means of communication to let others explore the options while we wait for an offical stance.
  397. # [22:31] <tylerr> I'm just along for the ride. When it comes to getting work done, any environment will suit me fine. :-)
  398. # [22:31] <tylerr> *comes time
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  402. # [23:11] <Hixie> regarding the issue tracking
  403. # [23:11] <Hixie> the reason i don't issue track outside my inbox is that issue tracking inside my inbox takes about 500ms per e-mail
  404. # [23:11] <Hixie> plus whatever time it takes to reply to the e-mail
  405. # [23:11] <Hixie> issue tracking outside that would require much more time
  406. # [23:12] <Hixie> people are, however, very much encouraged to do any issue tracking they'd like, e.g. in the wiki or elsewhere
  407. # [23:13] <Dashiva> Issue-001: Hixie has a job, preventing him from devoting his entire day to lggwg
  408. # [23:13] <Dashiva> Actually, we talked yesterday about long vs unsigned long in the DOM attributes
  409. # [23:13] <othermaciej> I think for HTMLWG, we can probably find volunteers to handle the overhead of a more formal issue tracker on your behalf
  410. # [23:13] <kingryan> Hixie: ideally you wouldn't have to process every bit of feedback. that should be parallelized
  411. # [23:13] <othermaciej> Hixie: I think making you do the beurocracy would be too annoying
  412. # [23:13] <Dashiva> image and canvas have height/width defined to be non-negative, but the DOM values are signed. Is this an issue?
  413. # [23:14] <othermaciej> but we might also be able to set up a mailbot where saying magic key phrases in mail marks an issue as resolved
  414. # [23:14] <Hixie> yeah if someone else does issue tracking that's certainly something i'd support
  415. # [23:14] <othermaciej> and where incoming mail can automatically create an issue
  416. # [23:14] <kingryan> Hixie: at the very least having people do triage (is this a preexisting issue? has it already been dealt with?) could lighten the load
  417. # [23:14] <Hixie> i'd still want to actually reply to every e-mail though
  418. # [23:14] <Hixie> because i think distilling e-mails tends to dilute issues and makes it much easier to ignore things
  419. # [23:14] <Hixie> especially annoying, hard things
  420. # [23:14] <Hixie> kingryan: yup
  421. # [23:15] * kingryan is *not* volunteering
  422. # [23:15] <Philip`> (Dashiva: I believe it's mainly an issue for canvas and not for img, because only canvas says the DOM and content attributes reflect)
  423. # [23:16] <tylerr> Are you looking for issue tracking software or simply just someone to manage the deluge of mail?
  424. # [23:16] <Hixie> Dashiva: someone sent mail about that (you, maybe?) and it's in my pile of canvas feedback :-)
  425. # [23:16] <Hixie> tylerr: i'm not looking for anything, but i believe two things were being proposed:
  426. # [23:16] <Dashiva> Philip`: Even without reflection, there is the semantic issue
  427. # [23:16] <Hixie> 1. a way to allow people to see what open issues exist
  428. # [23:17] <Hixie> 2. a way to triage incoming feedback so that people raising old issues can have their issues closed without editorial involvement
  429. # [23:18] <tylerr> Hmm... so something like a social ticketing tracking system.
  430. # [23:18] <tylerr> Rather, "open" ticket-tracking system.
  431. # [23:18] <tylerr> Social is so commodified these days. ;-)
  432. # [23:19] <othermaciej> it would be extra nice if it was linked to email
  433. # [23:20] <othermaciej> trackbot already knows how to detect email follow-ups on an existing issue
  434. # [23:20] <bewest> tylerr: see baetle
  435. # [23:20] <othermaciej> just needs a way to add an issue and a way to resolve an issue by email
  436. # [23:20] <othermaciej> the problem is that whether a comment is accepted or rejected can be subjective
  437. # [23:21] <tylerr> Nice bewest.
  438. # [23:21] <tylerr> Thanks.
  439. # [23:21] <othermaciej> in w3c at least, the WG says they agree but then does something the commentor disagrees with
  440. # [23:26] <Philip`> Dashiva: True - I was just thinking of the logical contradiction issue with canvas, whereas img is 'only' semantically odd (and partly undefined, because I don't think it says what happens when you modify the DOM 'width')
  441. # [23:27] * Quits: ericcarlson (i=ericcarl@nat/apple/x-67292983a9ab5597)
  442. # [23:37] <hsivonen> Hixie: should I cross-post http://hsivonen.iki.fi/printing-wa10/ to the WHATWG blog even though it is product-specific?
  443. # [23:39] <Hixie> uh
  444. # [23:39] <Hixie> is there something i can do to just fix the spec instead? :-)
  445. # [23:39] <Hixie> it should not be that hard!
  446. # [23:40] <hsivonen> Hixie: you could start by adding a charset meta :-)
  447. # [23:40] <hsivonen> Hixie: then, I suppose you could take me additions to the style sheet and put them in a @print block
  448. # [23:41] <hsivonen> Hixie: and having a wrapper <div> for the entity table would be nice as long as Prince does not support ::outside on it
  449. # [23:41] <hsivonen> Hixie: for WF 2.0, adding IDs for all tables would be great
  450. # [23:43] <Hixie> i use characters outside US-ASCII?
  451. # [23:43] <hsivonen> Hixie: lots
  452. # [23:44] <Hixie> really?!
  453. # [23:44] <hsivonen> Hixie: and weird ones too
  454. # [23:44] <Hixie> that's worrying
  455. # [23:44] <Hixie> since i'm not using an 8bit-safe editing environment
  456. # [23:44] <hsivonen> I had to google to find a font for WARNING SIGN
  457. # [23:44] <Hixie> where?
  458. # [23:44] <Hixie> but that's not an entity right?
  459. # [23:44] <Hixie> er
  460. # [23:44] <Hixie> is an entity
  461. # [23:44] <hsivonen> the first one crashed Quartz. the second one worked
  462. # [23:44] <hsivonen> NCRs
  463. # [23:45] <Hixie> ok. but am i using actual byte codes outside US-ASCII?
  464. # [23:45] <Hixie> as in, actual characters?
  465. # [23:45] <Hixie> as opposed to entities
  466. # [23:45] <hsivonen> also, the arabic percent sign is an esoteric one considering chiefly western content
  467. # [23:45] <hsivonen> ah. yeah, the page breaks without the charset meta
  468. # [23:45] <Hixie> why?
  469. # [23:45] <Hixie> where, rather?
  470. # [23:46] <hsivonen> I'll try to find the problem.
  471. # [23:46] <hsivonen> meanwhile:
  472. # [23:46] <hsivonen> prince: wa-rev691-2007-03-23.html:11486: error: ID video already defined
  473. # [23:46] <hsivonen> prince: wa-rev691-2007-03-23.html:11622: error: ID video already defined
  474. # [23:46] <hsivonen> prince: wa-rev691-2007-03-23.html:22851: error: Unexpected end tag : p
  475. # [23:46] <hsivonen> prince: wa-rev691-2007-03-23.html:24031: error: Unexpected end tag : p
  476. # [23:47] <othermaciej> does Prince give better results than printing from a browser?
  477. # [23:47] * othermaciej is now known as om_coffee
  478. # [23:47] <hsivonen> othermaciej: yes. in particular, page number-based crossreferences for internal links
  479. # [23:47] <hober> oooh, nice
  480. # [23:48] <hsivonen> om_coffee: though, I haven't checked what WebKit nightlies can do in the printing dept.
  481. # [23:48] <Hixie> hsivonen: i'm in the middle of editing the spec, the markup is in flux right now
  482. # [23:48] <Hixie> in particular, the id=video thing is fixed in the source
  483. # [23:50] <hsivonen> Hixie: dash under the main heading, copyright sign, etc. etc.
  484. # [23:51] <hsivonen> Hixie: looks like your preprocessor expands NCRs
  485. # [23:51] <hsivonen> Hixie: so I was wrong. no NCRs at all
  486. # [23:51] <hsivonen> Hixie: lots and lots of weird chars as straight UTF-8
  487. # [23:51] <Dashiva> NCR?
  488. # [23:51] <hsivonen> Dashiva: numeric character referenc
  489. # [23:51] <hsivonen> e
  490. # [23:51] <Dashiva> ah
  491. # [23:53] <Philip`> hsivonen: I don't see any non-ASCII characters in the current-work page - it's just &mdash; and &copy; in the places you mentioned
  492. # [23:53] <hsivonen> ah.
  493. # [23:53] <hsivonen> it is the reserializer in Firefox that produces them
  494. # [23:54] <Hixie> doesn't prince support just getting a URI?
  495. # [23:54] <Hixie> i thought it did
  496. # [23:55] <hsivonen> I though so, too, but couldn't figure it out
  497. # [23:55] <Hixie> also, wouldn't not setting the 'size' be better than having explicit size choice in the style sheet?
  498. # [23:56] <hsivonen> Hixie: quite possible
  499. # [23:56] <hsivonen> Hixie: is there something prince --help doesn't tell me?
  500. # [23:59] <Philip`> hsivonen: Looks like https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=331991
  501. # Session Close: Tue Mar 27 00:00:00 2007

The end :)