/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2007-04-02 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Apr 02 00:00:00 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  4. # [00:03] * om_coffee is now known as othermaciej
  5. # [00:04] <othermaciej> hsivonen: a W3C Working Group can publish just about anything it wants to as a W3C Note
  6. # [00:07] <Hixie> othermaciej: i updated the strawman proposal
  7. # [00:07] <Hixie> got rid of WAITING
  8. # [00:07] <Hixie> went in the other direction than you were pushing me for the networkState vs readyState though
  9. # [00:07] <Hixie> since that gives us useful one-shot events for free
  10. # [00:08] <Dashiva> Is the strawman available online?
  11. # [00:08] <Hixie> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#media
  12. # [00:08] <Hixie> in the IDL
  13. # [00:08] <othermaciej> Hixie: looking
  14. # [00:27] <othermaciej> Hixie: I like that somewhat better
  15. # [00:27] <Hixie> ooo, progress :-)
  16. # [00:27] <mpt> "can display text to the user informing them of how to access the video contents"
  17. # [00:27] <mpt> ... or an alternative, such as a slideshow or animated GIF
  18. # [00:28] <othermaciej> Hixie: I'll have to mull on it a bit
  19. # [00:28] <Hixie> k
  20. # [00:28] <Hixie> i have to go offline now anyway
  21. # [00:28] <othermaciej> ok
  22. # [00:28] <othermaciej> ttyl
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  25. # [00:54] <othermaciej> Hixie: you should update the copyright on Web Apps 1.0 to say "Apple Inc." instead of "Apple Computer, Inc."
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  35. # [01:36] <Lachy_> aargh! that HTML6 post got spammed already! :-(
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  38. # [01:49] <hsivonen> the HTML6 post didn't make it to slashdot. did it make it to digg?
  39. # [01:50] <othermaciej> the webkit post didn't either, but it apparently actually fooled some people at least for a while
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  92. # [11:11] <annevk> zcorpan_, I fixed the abort() tests here: http://tc.labs.opera.com/apis/XMLHttpRequest/abort/
  93. # [11:11] <annevk> zcorpan_, I also fixed the specification to deal with when abort() should not trigger a state change to DONE
  94. # [11:12] <zcorpan_> annevk: ok
  95. # [11:16] <annevk> maybe RECEIVING should become LOADING
  96. # [11:16] <annevk> and SENT should prolly be SENDING
  97. # [11:37] <annevk> zcorpan_, regarding the proxy thing, I agree...
  98. # [11:38] <annevk> zcorpan_, I didn't draft that text... What I think it means is that some UAs let the user specify some proxy to use...
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  100. # [11:43] <zcorpan_> ok
  101. # [11:44] * zcorpan_ found an obscure opera bug regarding large negative 'left' plus some negative 'margin-left' on absolutely positioned elements appearing to the far _right_
  102. # [11:45] <annevk> might just be that we round something...
  103. # [11:45] <annevk> to save storage
  104. # [11:46] <zcorpan_> http://simon.html5.org/test/opera/negative-absolute.htm
  105. # [11:49] <hasather> zcorpan_: I don't get a FAIL anywhere
  106. # [11:50] <zcorpan_> hasather: what build are you using?
  107. # [11:50] <hasather> latest weekly for Linux, build 628
  108. # [11:50] <zcorpan_> ok
  109. # [11:51] <zcorpan_> i have 8767 windows
  110. # [11:51] <hasather> oops, sorry, completely missed the scrollbar
  111. # [11:51] <zcorpan_> ah
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  114. # [12:03] * zcorpan_ filed #258854
  115. # [12:06] <hasather> zcorpan_: when was your job interview?
  116. # [12:06] <hasather> tomorrow?
  117. # [12:06] <zcorpan_> yes
  118. # [12:07] <hasather> ok
  119. # [12:07] <hasather> what kind of job is it? QA?
  120. # [12:07] <zcorpan_> i said that i was interested in working on a test suite for html5
  121. # [12:07] <zcorpan_> we'll see what they say
  122. # [12:07] <hasather> aha
  123. # [12:12] <krijnh> 'Well one thing could be done would be to close the WHATWG list temporarily.'
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  125. # [12:15] <zcorpan_> lol
  126. # [12:16] <zcorpan_> well one thing could be done would be for the htmlwg members to join the whatwg too
  127. # [12:23] <krijnh> Imho there should be just one list
  128. # [12:24] <krijnh> Just one spec, and just one editor
  129. # [12:25] <krijnh> Although, that one editor is subscribed to more than one list, so he could as well follow public-html as well :)
  130. # [12:25] <krijnh> as well as well, yeah, makes sense
  131. # [12:25] <krijnh> Think McFly!
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  137. # [13:00] <krijnh> align="char" isn't in current drafts, is it going to be dropped or is something better coming up?
  138. # [13:01] <annevk> dropped in favor of text-align:<string> iirc
  139. # [13:01] <Lachy> krijnh, no browser ever supported it
  140. # [13:01] <krijnh> Lachy: I know
  141. # [13:01] <krijnh> annevk: Ah, k
  142. # [13:01] <Lachy> so if it's not even remotes supported, then there's no way it's getting included in HTML5
  143. # [13:01] <Lachy> unless it's a new feature
  144. # [13:02] <krijnh> I didn't know about css3 text-align: <string>
  145. # [13:02] <zcorpan_> it was in css 2.0 too iirc
  146. # [13:02] <zcorpan_> dropped in 2.1
  147. # [13:02] <annevk> yeah, what zcorpan_ said
  148. # [13:03] <Lachy> I wonder if it will ever be supported
  149. # [13:03] <annevk> well, if Dave Raggett is right and spreadsheets are the next thing...
  150. # [13:04] <Lachy> This has got to be close to the quote of the day: "Surely we're not trying to ensure that a Web page is presented the same in every browsing environment? What would be the use of that?"
  151. # [13:04] <Lachy> :-)
  152. # [13:04] <annevk> April Fools day is over Lachy
  153. # [13:04] <krijnh> Hehe
  154. # [13:06] <annevk> www-html is funny too
  155. # [13:06] <annevk> apparently XHTML 1.1 allows text/html as MIME type now
  156. # [13:06] <annevk> (the second edition that is)
  157. # [13:06] <krijnh> No April fool joke?
  158. # [13:06] <Lachy> ha! They published one: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4824
  159. # [13:07] <krijnh> What a waste of time :/
  160. # [13:07] <Lachy> I noticed that XHTML 1.1 post today :-)
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  162. # [13:12] <Dashiva> So is the text/html xhtml a joke or not?
  163. # [13:12] <zcorpan_> pointer?
  164. # [13:12] <annevk> The XHTML2 WG is close to a joke
  165. # [13:13] <annevk> ... and they're the ones doing this
  166. # [13:13] <Dashiva> http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/conformance.html#uaconf
  167. # [13:13] * virtuelv_ is now known as virtuelv
  168. # [13:13] <zcorpan_> oh, i thought there was a blog post or something
  169. # [13:14] <Lachy> there was a post to www-html
  170. # [13:14] <Lachy> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html/2007Apr/0005.html
  171. # [13:14] <Lachy> there's a few responses as well
  172. # [13:16] <annevk> why doesn't the HTML WG get all the XHTML 1.x stuff btw?
  173. # [13:16] <annevk> so we can obsolete them all and say that they are irrelevant?
  174. # [13:16] * annevk thinks that would make more sense
  175. # [13:16] <Lachy> raise the issue on public-html
  176. # [13:17] <Lachy> the XHTML2 WG should just get XHTML2. we should get all XHTML Basic, Print, 1.x, Mobile and everything else
  177. # [13:18] <zcorpan_> does it matter?
  178. # [13:19] <annevk> no, it would prolly mean more work for us
  179. # [13:19] <annevk> otoh, not having them might too
  180. # [13:19] <annevk> as silly people will start pointing out obvious incompatibilities
  181. # [13:20] <annevk> (I would, for instance, if I didn't know the story behind it.)
  182. # [13:20] <zcorpan_> we could just say that they are deliverables from the xhtml2 wg and can be ignored, or something
  183. # [13:20] <annevk> Anyone who feels that the RECEIVING constant should not be renamed to LOADING?
  184. # [13:20] <annevk> (for XMLHttpRequest)
  185. # [13:21] <gsnedders> is there any sort of feed for the SVN?
  186. # [13:22] <annevk> not until you contribute a patch to generate one
  187. # [13:22] <gsnedders> where is the SVN located anyway?
  188. # [13:22] <zcorpan_> for html5?
  189. # [13:22] <gsnedders> yes
  190. # [13:23] <zcorpan_> http://svn.whatwg.org/
  191. # [13:23] <annevk> noted at the top of the draft... svn.whatwg.org/webapps/
  192. # [13:23] <gsnedders> ah
  193. # [13:23] <gsnedders> I'd been trying to avoid downloading the entire draft again, looking around on the site
  194. # [13:24] <zcorpan_> annevk: i don't feel strongly about it, but currently HTMLMediaElement has LOADING
  195. # [13:24] <gsnedders> any real preference as to what language it is written in?
  196. # [13:24] <zcorpan_> gsnedders: there is a tracker written in python
  197. # [13:25] <zcorpan_> adding a feed to that should be trivial
  198. # [13:25] <annevk> the code for that tracker is online
  199. # [13:25] <MikeSmith> annevk, gsnedders - with some minimal config, you could set up a feed for the project SVN though CIA
  200. # [13:25] <MikeSmith> http://cia.vc/
  201. # [13:25] <MikeSmith> WebKit is using that
  202. # [13:25] <annevk> http://code.google.com/p/html5/ has it somewhere
  203. # [13:26] <MikeSmith> I mean the WebKit project
  204. # [13:26] <annevk> oh, maybe we could let Hixie install that then...
  205. # [13:26] * gsnedders has never actually written anything much in Python, though used code as reference many times
  206. # [13:26] <annevk> on tracker.whatwg.org or something
  207. # [13:27] <zcorpan_> or svn.whatwg.org
  208. # [13:27] <gsnedders> where is the code for the tracker? I can't see a link anyway… maybe I'm just not doing well today :)
  209. # [13:28] <annevk> http://html5.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/web-apps-tracker/
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  211. # [13:29] <annevk> zcorpan_, yeah, I noticed, LOADING it is
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  233. # [15:51] <Lachy> The XHTML2 WG finally got something right! http://www.w3.org/mid/4611023C.3020607@aptest.com :-)
  234. # [15:52] <Lachy> well, almost
  235. # [15:54] <zcorpan> oh. i really thought they wanted to allow text/html
  236. # [15:54] <Lachy> the only problem is that there is still no MUST level requirement
  237. # [15:55] <Lachy> it should say something like "... MUST use an XML MIME type, and SHOULD use app/xhtml+xml"
  238. # [15:55] * zcorpan doesn't care about the 1.1 spec anyway
  239. # [15:55] <Lachy> yeah, but we should encourage them to get something right
  240. # [15:56] <zcorpan> go ahead :)
  241. # [15:56] * krijnh has to care about the 1.1 spec
  242. # [15:56] <krijnh> I get clients requesting 'XHTML 1.1' valid markup from time to time
  243. # [15:57] <krijnh> No you don't you silly client, you really want to support IE
  244. # [15:57] <Lachy> krijnh, the correct response to that is "No." The markup will be conforming, but it will not be XHTML 1.1 due to compatibiley reasons"
  245. # [15:58] <krijnh> Yeah, but they are going to change the spec now, I can't say that anymore ;)
  246. # [15:58] <krijnh> but if
  247. # [15:58] <Lachy> "... I am using conforming HTML 4.01 (or 5), which will yeild identical results"
  248. # [15:58] <Lachy> s/identical/better/
  249. # [15:58] <zcorpan> yeah, sell them html5 instead
  250. # [15:58] <krijnh> That's what my CMS uses, yes
  251. # [15:58] <krijnh> I am :)
  252. # [15:59] <Lachy> they might object to HTML5's maturity level
  253. # [15:59] <krijnh> HTML5 is more mature than XHTML 1.x imho
  254. # [15:59] * zcorpan usually points out that html5 is more in line with what browsers do, and it's possible to use a subset of it
  255. # [16:00] <krijnh> Off topic; typo3 sucks
  256. # [16:00] <krijnh> Tee hee
  257. # [16:00] <zcorpan> not that i do a lot of freelance work, but anyway
  258. # [16:00] * Quits: mw22____________ (n=chatzill@h8441169151.dsl.speedlinq.nl) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  259. # [16:00] <krijnh> zcorpan: what do you do for work then?
  260. # [16:00] <zcorpan> i study
  261. # [16:01] <krijnh> Ah
  262. # [16:01] <krijnh> Me too :)
  263. # [16:07] <zcorpan> the html60 guy found public-html
  264. # [16:10] <Lachy> I encountered several parse errors while reading his e-mail
  265. # [16:12] <Lachy> a file preview feature might be a good feature for browsers to consider implementing, but it certainly doesn't need a new element
  266. # [16:13] <zcorpan> i don't understand any of his proposals, frankly
  267. # [16:14] <Lachy> all he wants is a way for a browser to show a preview of a picture being uploaded
  268. # [16:14] * bzed is now known as bzed|afk
  269. # [16:14] <Lachy> everything else he wrote about octogos and new input controls is irrelevent
  270. # [16:15] <Lachy> *octogons
  271. # [16:15] <zcorpan> he has a lot of other proposals too on his site
  272. # [16:16] * Joins: mw22____________ (n=chatzill@h8441169151.dsl.speedlinq.nl)
  273. # [16:16] * mw22____________ is now known as mw22
  274. # [16:17] <Dashiva> Isn't it a bit early to start on html 60 while we're still doing 5?
  275. # [16:17] * zcorpan will work on html 7000
  276. # [16:19] * Quits: ravenn (n=ravenn@203-214-133-148.perm.iinet.net.au)
  277. # [16:20] <Lachy> Dashiva, it's good to start working on future versions in parallel with the current version :-)
  278. # [16:28] <Lachy> aargh! he sent that post 3 times :-(
  279. # [16:29] * Quits: met_ (n=Martin@b14-4.vscht.cz) ("Chemists never die, they just stop reacting.")
  280. # [16:33] * Quits: gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-139-123-225.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) ("Don't touch /dev/null…")
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  283. # [16:45] <hsivonen> I wonder why the HTML 6.0 guy/gal doesn't sign the proposals with a real name
  284. # [16:46] <Lachy> if I wrote proposals like that, I'd want to be anonymous too!
  285. # [16:46] <krijnh> Hehe
  286. # [16:46] * Dashiva doesn't see any proposals
  287. # [16:46] <krijnh> Perhaps for a native Russian this is very good :)
  288. # [16:53] <Lachy> new Polish translation of the FAQ http://blog.whatwg.org/faq/pl/
  289. # [17:01] * Parts: icaaq_ (n=icaaaq@226.228.13.217.in-addr.dgcsystems.net)
  290. # [17:14] <annevk> seems like the W3C is not going to fix <?xml-stylesheet?>: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-core-wg/2007Apr/0001.html
  291. # [17:14] <annevk> silly
  292. # [17:14] <annevk> otoh, it was already on my XML5 todo list
  293. # [17:15] <krijnh> XML5?
  294. # [17:15] <annevk> that or XML2
  295. # [17:15] <Lachy> krijnh, we're building Web 5.0!
  296. # [17:15] <hsivonen> what's the deal with RELAX NG fragments in the spec? surely it isn't Hixie's idea?
  297. # [17:15] <annevk> dunno, no
  298. # [17:15] <Lachy> what RelaxNG fragments?
  299. # [17:16] <krijnh> Lachy: you have a logo already? ;)
  300. # [17:16] <hsivonen> Lachy: not in the spec now but said in email as if there would be
  301. # [17:16] * Lachy looks...
  302. # [17:16] <krijnh> "Since having informal Relax-NG schema fragments in the HTML specification has been discussed, I think there might be room to discuss the inclusion of default CSS (perhaps even Aural CSS) fragments in the specification as well."
  303. # [17:17] <Lachy> found the email
  304. # [17:17] * annevk suspects that people who archive e-mail put that in "xml-pipedream"
  305. # [17:17] <krijnh> hsivonen: perhaps people misread your mails about your thesis
  306. # [17:18] <hsivonen> krijnh: that would be a rather radical misreading, but radical misreadings happen
  307. # [17:18] <annevk> btw, is anyone going to post the 2 april post?
  308. # [17:18] <annevk> or was there no such thing?
  309. # [17:19] <Lachy> oh crap, I was going to write something about <video>
  310. # [17:19] <hsivonen> Lachy: did you have a <video> post coming up?
  311. # [17:19] <hsivonen> right
  312. # [17:19] <Lachy> oh well, it's too late now
  313. # [17:19] <Lachy> it's getting late and I don't have time now
  314. # [17:19] <annevk> it's still April 2
  315. # [17:19] <Lachy> anyone, feel free to write it if you want
  316. # [17:19] <krijnh> Not in Australia
  317. # [17:19] <zcorpan> what were you going to write?
  318. # [17:19] <Lachy> yeah, get with the times! It's April 3 already
  319. # [17:20] <annevk> it's e-April 2 damn it
  320. # [17:20] <Lachy> I was just going to do an overview of the new video element
  321. # [17:20] <annevk> oh ok
  322. # [17:20] <Lachy> yeah, it is in UTC, so I'll accept that
  323. # [17:20] <gavin_> what's special about April 2?
  324. # [17:20] <gavin_> International Children's Book Day?
  325. # [17:20] <annevk> day after April 1
  326. # [17:21] <annevk> I thought the idea was to make another joke this day to confuse people
  327. # [17:21] <Lachy> no, Hixie wanted another post to go up after the april 1 post just so people didn't get confused aboutit any longer
  328. # [17:21] <annevk> oh, he wanted the opposite
  329. # [17:21] <annevk> that's not fun
  330. # [17:21] <Lachy> yeah, but it'd be funny to confuse people more
  331. # [17:21] <Lachy> post about HTML 60!
  332. # [17:22] <zcorpan> let's ask the russian guy to blog
  333. # [17:22] <gavin_> was there an April 1 gag on the WHATWG list that I missed?
  334. # [17:22] <Lachy> on the blog
  335. # [17:22] <gavin_> oh
  336. # [17:22] <krijnh> And it was hilarious.
  337. # [17:23] <gavin_> I don't read the blog
  338. # [17:23] <gavin_> maybe I should
  339. # [17:23] <Lachy> http://blog.whatwg.org/html6-plan
  340. # [17:24] <annevk> "To avoid any confusion about the estimated time of arrival HTML6 has been renamed to HTML60. The idea is that when all twenty year somethings currently working on the specification turn sixty something it will be done."
  341. # [17:25] <annevk> s/year//
  342. # [17:25] <hsivonen> a sociologist could have a field day comparing the dynamics of the WHATWG, AtomPub and HTML WG mailing lists
  343. # [17:27] <Lachy> I'm hoping public-html will become more like whatwg once we actually have both Chairs and everyone agrees to work on HTML5, keeping the specs in sync
  344. # [17:28] <hsivonen> yeah
  345. # [17:28] <zcorpan> and the people who can't manage the large amount of emails have left ;)
  346. # [17:28] <zcorpan> or at least don't say so much
  347. # [17:28] <Lachy> at the moment, public-html just seems to be suffering from a few growing pains. To many newbies all joined at once, without any clear direction given
  348. # [17:28] <annevk> woha, 2 days 60 e-mails
  349. # [17:29] <zcorpan> Lachy: indeed
  350. # [17:29] <annevk> that's 1800 e-mails for one month
  351. # [17:29] <annevk> and most of the crap was posted in the weekend!
  352. # [17:30] * annevk is already at 25 messages to public-html since the start...
  353. # [17:30] <Lachy> If this rate keeps up, we'll get another 800 e-mails on public-html this month
  354. # [17:31] <annevk> of course, nothing compared to a certain Mike Schinkel
  355. # [17:31] <Lachy> or, actually, I'd expect more because weekends tend to be the quieter times
  356. # [17:31] <annevk> I just said, 1800
  357. # [17:32] <Lachy> Mike has a total of 56
  358. # [17:32] <krijnh> Lachy: didn't you send him a mail?
  359. # [17:32] <Lachy> how did you calculate 1800?
  360. # [17:33] <Lachy> krijnh, yes, but that wasn't conted
  361. # [17:33] <Lachy> counted
  362. # [17:33] <krijnh> But what did you tell him?
  363. # [17:33] <annevk> nm
  364. # [17:33] <annevk> I should have said 900...
  365. # [17:34] * annevk did 30*60 instead of 30*30 or 15*60...
  366. # [17:35] <Lachy> krijnh, I wrote a polite e-mail informing him to stop flooding the list
  367. # [17:35] <Lachy> I can forward you a copy if you like
  368. # [17:36] <Lachy> he responed, and I'm drafting my response to that too
  369. # [17:37] <krijnh> Perhaps he didn't get it
  370. # [17:37] <Lachy> oh, he didn't. That was obvious from his reply
  371. # [17:37] * annevk changes topic to 'WHATTF (HTML60) -- http://www.whattf.org/ -- Logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  372. # [17:39] <Lachy> I also wrote to him about the issue numbers in the wiki, to which he responded "The numbers are the "killer feature"" :-)
  373. # [17:39] <Lachy> Hopefully the thread on public-html will convince him otherwise
  374. # [17:40] <krijnh> The killer feature
  375. # [17:40] <krijnh> Okay :)
  376. # [17:50] * Joins: h3h (n=h3h@66-162-32-234.static.twtelecom.net)
  377. # [17:50] * annevk missed http://mail.google.com/mail/help/paper/
  378. # [17:54] <zcorpan> lol
  379. # [18:03] * Quits: karlUshi (n=karl@124-144-94-185.rev.home.ne.jp) ("Where dwelt Ymir, or wherein did he find sustenance?")
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  382. # [18:25] <Philip`> Hmm, my <canvas> tests have found a bug in a pre-XPSP2 Win32 string processing function, which was somewhat unexpected and irritating since it's wasted half a day - but tests are meant to find bugs, so I suppose I shouldn't complain...
  383. # [18:28] <zcorpan> Philip`: perhaps you should document it somewhere so others don't waste half a day too
  384. # [18:28] * Quits: om_out (n=mjs@dsl081-048-145.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  385. # [18:30] <Philip`> I'll complain to Microsoft that their documentation is wrong (since it looks like they updated it to account for the bug, but incorrectly), and get Mozilla's code fixed to work around it, and then I'll be happy :-)
  386. # [18:31] <zcorpan> ok
  387. # [18:31] <zcorpan> something opera would have to work around too?
  388. # [18:35] <Philip`> Only if they use Uniscribe's ScriptItemize function (and expect it to stay within the buffer length it's given) - as far as I can tell from Opera.dll, they don't use that function, so it shouldn't be a problem
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  400. # [19:22] <zcorpan> i didn't read the <q> mail, but whatever it says it suggests to me it's time to drop it :)
  401. # [19:24] <annevk> <q src=uri cite=string> is the suggestion
  402. # [19:24] <annevk> which is a) not backwards compatible, b) silly and c) too late to count as a April 1 joke
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  407. # [19:36] * om_out is now known as othermaciej
  408. # [19:40] * Joins: KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks)
  409. # [19:40] * KevinMarks is listening to the yahoo pipes talk at google
  410. # [19:41] <KevinMarks> just asked for a way to say that a layer doesn't get events
  411. # [19:47] <othermaciej> does "layer" mean something special in the context of pipes, or do you mean a CSS layer?
  412. # [19:47] <KevinMarks> they meant a css layer (though they are using canvas too)
  413. # [19:48] <annevk> opacity:0 in case of IE
  414. # [19:48] <annevk> well, something equivalent to that
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  418. # [20:17] <othermaciej> KevinMarks: there's no standard way (and no way at all in most browsers) to make something that is visible but can be clicked through
  419. # [20:21] <Hixie> if people want to write a funny but not wrong post for april 2nd, i'm sure they can find plenty of material in amongst the tag, xhtml2, xforms, svg, and other wgs and drafts...
  420. # [20:22] * Quits: KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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  422. # [20:27] <othermaciej> Hixie: would Thursday work for you for lunch?
  423. # [20:27] <Hixie> i was about to say "sure!", but let me check my calendar first!
  424. # [20:28] <Hixie> i have a meeting up til 11:30
  425. # [20:28] <Hixie> but after that i'm free
  426. # [20:29] <othermaciej> all right, let's do 11:30
  427. # [20:29] <Hixie> cool
  428. # [20:29] <Hixie> you guys coming to the 'plex?
  429. # [20:30] <othermaciej> yes
  430. # [20:30] <othermaciej> (hopefully carpooling so we can park)
  431. # [20:31] <Hixie> cool
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  443. # [21:42] <hsivonen> WordPress could you a UI for marking multiple comments as spam in one go
  444. # [21:43] <hsivonen> Lachy: btw, are you keeping an eye on spam on the whatwg blog?
  445. # [21:43] <hsivonen> I just got rid of a bunch of SEO spam
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  464. # [22:56] <Hixie> othermaciej: btw, did you have a chance to mull over the api proposal?
  465. # [22:56] <Hixie> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#media
  466. # [23:09] <othermaciej> Hixie: CAN_SHOW_STATIC_VIEW_OF_CURRENT_TIME seems like an overly long name, although it is very precise
  467. # [23:09] * Quits: met_ (n=Hassman@r5bx220.net.upc.cz) ("Chemists never die, they just stop reacting.")
  468. # [23:09] <Hixie> it was your proposal :-P
  469. # [23:09] <othermaciej> LOADED_FRAME might be better named LOADED_INITIAL_FRAME or something
  470. # [23:09] <othermaciej> Hixie: it was not intended seriously
  471. # [23:10] <Hixie> oh ok
  472. # [23:10] <Hixie> i don't really have a better name
  473. # [23:10] <othermaciej> CAN_SHOW_CURRENT_FRAME
  474. # [23:11] <Hixie> i suppose that's clear enough even in the audio case, yeah
  475. # [23:11] <Hixie> regenning the spec...
  476. # [23:12] <othermaciej> the fact that EMPTY is used twice is a little awkward, not sure what to call the second EMPTY instead
  477. # [23:13] <othermaciej> CANT_PLAY is a little inaccurate
  478. # [23:13] <Hixie> UNAVAILABLE ?
  479. # [23:17] <othermaciej> sounds good
  480. # [23:17] <Hixie> ok
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  485. # [23:50] <hsivonen> looks like (legal issues aside) in terms of spec writing terms Theora complies with WHATWG philosophy but H.264 does not
  486. # [23:51] <hsivonen> s/writing terms/writing,/
  487. # [23:51] <Hixie> the whatwg philosophy is pragmatism
  488. # [23:51] <Hixie> if one of the major browser vendors doesn't want to do ogg, ogg isn't an option. same with h.264.
  489. # [23:52] <Hixie> this leaves us in an interesting conundrum out of which i see no solution.
  490. # [23:52] <Hixie> (the arguments in favour of h.264 are compelling, as much as those in favour of ogg.)
  491. # [23:53] <Dashiva> What about system codecs, have those been taken into the equation?
  492. # [23:53] <hsivonen> the big practical problem with H.264 is that saying "H.264" is pointless. Saying "the H.264 subset that QuickTime supports" is more realistic, but producing that stuff with non-Apple encoders is *hard*
  493. # [23:54] <hsivonen> Dashiva: doesn't that degenerate to the issue of different installations having different plug-ins
  494. # [23:54] <hsivonen> ?
  495. # [23:54] <hsivonen> they'd just be different plug-ins
  496. # [23:55] <hsivonen> I have advocated H.264 on standards grounds elsewhere.
  497. # [23:55] <Dashiva> Not as much, since the API would be the same in all cases
  498. # [23:56] <hsivonen> but when people ask me, what x264 flags to use, I don't know what to tell them
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  500. # [23:56] <hsivonen> Dashiva: same as in QuickTime, gstreamer and whatever the Windows Media API is called
  501. # [23:57] <Dashiva> I'm not sure what you mean
  502. # [23:58] <hsivonen> Dashiva: every platform has a different codec extensibility API
  503. # [23:59] <Dashiva> So the browsers need to program to one API per OS, but they still present a single media API in the browser.
  504. # [23:59] <Hixie> hsivonen: the proposal is H.264 Baseline Profile, which is supposedly patent-safe (though MPEG-LA claim otherwise)
  505. # [23:59] <Hixie> hsivonen: that's what people mean when they say H.264 should be the minimum required.
  506. # Session Close: Tue Apr 03 00:00:00 2007

The end :)