/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2007-04-24 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Apr 24 00:00:00 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  25. # [03:26] <zcorpan> spam? http://blog.whatwg.org/proposing-features#comment-2393
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  29. # [03:42] <zcorpan> http://twitter.com/ddfreyne/statuses/37293072
  30. # [03:44] <Hixie> is he your friend?
  31. # [03:44] <Hixie> we should get him to send us feedback
  32. # [03:44] <Hixie> so we can fix the problems he ran into
  33. # [03:44] <zcorpan> no, he just showed up in my google blog search feed
  34. # [03:46] <zcorpan> reading http://stoneship.org/journal/marked-up/ ...
  35. # [03:53] * zcorpan added him on msn
  36. # [03:55] <zcorpan> nn
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  45. # [06:43] <Hixie> ok i've officially run out of things to test on http://hixie.ch/tests/evil/acid/003/
  46. # [06:44] <Hixie> and i have up to 87 more tests to write :-)
  47. # [06:45] <Hixie> testing DOM2 Core, DOM2 Events, DOM2 HTML, ECMAScript 3, HTTP
  48. # [06:46] <Hixie> and anything else you can think of testing via JS without it actually rendering
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  58. # [09:01] <hsivonen> Hixie: are you at work? ping about dfn usage
  59. # [09:08] <Hixie> just got back from work, heh
  60. # [09:08] <Hixie> let me get my vpn card, hang on
  61. # [09:08] <Hixie> what was the question?
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  64. # [09:14] <hsivonen> Hixie: what's the relative usage frequency of <dfn> compared to <i> (or perhaps <em>, too)
  65. # [09:16] <Hixie> on a per-page basis?
  66. # [09:16] <Hixie> as in, pages using dfn vs pages using i/em?
  67. # [09:16] <hsivonen> for example
  68. # [09:18] <Hixie> <i> is used on 178 times more pages than <dfn>, and <em> is used on 80 times more pages than <dfn>
  69. # [09:18] <Hixie> as of last september
  70. # [09:18] <hsivonen> Hixie: thanks. this is "several billion pages", right?
  71. # [09:19] <Hixie> <dfn> is used more than <del>, <ins>, <var>, <kbd>, <samp>, etc
  72. # [09:19] <Hixie> yeah
  73. # [09:19] * om_afk is now known as othermaciej
  74. # [09:20] <hsivonen> thanks. <dfn> being more common than <var> and <kbd> is surprising to me
  75. # [09:20] <hsivonen> and <del>
  76. # [09:20] <hsivonen> lots of bloggers use <del> and <ins> these days
  77. # [09:20] <Hixie> <dfn> is used less than <zeroboard>, <st1:place>, <noembed>, <blink>, <bgsound>, <ilayer>, etc
  78. # [09:20] <othermaciej> <zeroboard>?
  79. # [09:20] <hsivonen> othermaciej: indeed
  80. # [09:20] <Hixie> don't ask me
  81. # [09:20] <Hixie> i just work here
  82. # [09:20] <othermaciej> <blink>??
  83. # [09:20] <hsivonen> Hixie: thanks
  84. # [09:21] * virtuelv wonders wtf <zeroboard> is
  85. # [09:21] <othermaciej> omg Sam Ruby posted on public-html
  86. # [09:21] <othermaciej> has IBM decided to join the Conspiracy of Light?
  87. # [09:22] <virtuelv> othermaciej: http://www.intertwingly.net/blog/2007/04/23/HTML-WG-me
  88. # [09:22] <virtuelv> "I’m the first to represent IBM, but there undoubtedly will be others."
  89. # [09:22] <othermaciej> nobody tells me these things
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  109. # [12:51] <Philip`> <zeroboard> seems to come from e.g. http://www.nzeo.com/bbs/zboard.php?id=cgi_zskins2&no=19641 which has code like
  110. # [12:51] <Philip`> <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width=99%>
  111. # [12:51] <Philip`> <tr>
  112. # [12:51] <Philip`> <td >
  113. # [12:51] <Philip`> <Zeroboard???</a>
  114. # [12:51] <Philip`> <Zeroboard????</a>
  115. # [12:51] <Philip`> ....
  116. # [12:52] <Philip`> (where the "?" are Korean)
  117. # [12:53] <Philip`> so it looks like a markup error rather than an actual tag
  118. # [12:53] * othermaciej is now known as om_sleep
  119. # [12:53] <Philip`> (but it's on (apparently) Korea's most popular message board software, so it gets around a lot)
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  122. # [13:16] <hsivonen> where should I look for mod_negotiation for dummies?
  123. # [13:17] * hsivonen is puzzled by the difference between http://hsivonen.iki.fi/thesis/html5-conformance-checker and http://hsivonen.iki.fi/thesis/html5-conformance-checker.var in Opera
  124. # [13:17] <hsivonen> Apache docs say that .var should take precedence over automatic MultiViews
  125. # [13:30] <virtuelv> Hixie: I think Acid3 needs a cat picture
  126. # [13:30] <zcorpan> virtuelv: agreed
  127. # [13:31] * hsivonen gives up on conneg for today
  128. # [13:36] <hsivonen> it appears that the html60 guy hasn't read HTML5
  129. # [13:38] <met_> do you mean people in html-wg?
  130. # [13:42] <Dashiva> No, there's this russian with html60 as his email userpart. He keeps coming up with very dramatic declarative suggestions
  131. # [13:43] <met_> oh this
  132. # [13:44] <Lachy> oh wow! This has to be the longest subject line ever: "Now there is table-element with predetermined quantity of column.But sometimes we need to visualize three tables(for example, database tables) as one table:first table contains names of rows,second table contains names of columns (this table determine quantity of columns),third table contains data.New html-element: table-dim"
  133. # [14:06] <Philip`> No, the longest subject line ever is the one that says "Re: {all that}"
  134. # [14:27] <krijnh> Anybody in here know if it's possible to turn off the black outline when navigating to form elements in Opera?
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  136. # [14:42] <MikeSmith> Hixie: is there any chance you might be able to set up an archived mailing list to which webapps checkin messages get echoed?
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  139. # [14:42] <MikeSmith> in my workflow at least (at work and in open-source projects), I'm used to scanning checkin message over e-mail
  140. # [14:43] <MikeSmith> maybe some other people are used to the same thing
  141. # [14:46] * met_ is, it's in the /svn/hooks/post-commit sending mails with diff of commits
  142. # [15:16] <Lachy> MikeSmith, those checkin messages get posted to twitter
  143. # [15:17] <MikeSmith> Lachy - which is great, but I think it could also be useful for them to go to a mailing list
  144. # [15:18] <Lachy> you could hook into the twitter API with your own program that sends you an email. Perhaps someone has already written such a tool
  145. # [15:19] <met_> MikeSmith propably want also diffs
  146. # [15:20] <met_> which are included in svn mails
  147. # [15:20] <MikeSmith> yeah, would want to have the diffs
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  149. # [15:22] <zcorpan> might be able to hook something to web-apps-tracker
  150. # [15:23] <zcorpan> s/able/possible/
  151. # [15:24] <met_> /svn/hooks/post-commit has it ready
  152. # [15:24] <MikeSmith> right, what met_ said
  153. # [15:25] <met_> there is one line needed to add mail address of the receiver
  154. # [15:25] <zcorpan> ok
  155. # [15:25] <MikeSmith> yep
  156. # [15:26] <met_> like this /var/lib/svn/svn/hooks/commit-email.pl -h example.com -s '[SVN]' "$REPOS" "$REV" name@example.com
  157. # [15:26] <zcorpan> but web-apps-tracker has a filter
  158. # [15:30] <Lachy> the easy way to get twitter updates by email would be to use http://www.rssfwd.com/ and subscribe to the twitter feed but that wouldn't give you the diffs
  159. # [15:31] * zcorpan still thinks about making a feed for web-apps-tracker that is aware of the filter
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  187. # [19:30] <annevk> http://html456.blogspot.com/
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  189. # [19:37] <zcorpan_> anyone know of a czech translator that works?
  190. # [19:39] <annevk> use a real person?
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  192. # [19:39] * Joins: ddfreyne (n=ddfreyne@unaffiliated/ddfreyne)
  193. # [19:39] <annevk> works for Swedish stuff I need translated :p
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  195. # [19:40] <zcorpan_> anyone here know czech? :)
  196. # [19:41] <hasather> didn't we have a Czech person here? met_? Not here now though
  197. # [19:42] <Philip`> There's one that doesn't really work at http://www.tranexp.com:2000/Translate/result.shtml
  198. # [19:42] <zcorpan_> ddfreyne: welcome
  199. # [19:42] <Philip`> "WHATWG tender sleight propagujc altogether singly plus acquaintance thinking , that 5 2", etc
  200. # [19:42] <hasather> http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20070413#l-164
  201. # [19:43] <ddfreyne> zcorpan_: hi
  202. # [19:44] <zcorpan_> Hixie: ddfreyne is the http://twitter.com/ddfreyne/statuses/37293072 guy :)
  203. # [19:44] <Philip`> (Those log links would work better if the page didn't rearrange itself to remove the join/part/quit messages after it's scrolled down to the right line...)
  204. # [19:44] <ddfreyne> Hixie: hi :)
  205. # [19:44] <zcorpan_> Philip`: (indeed)
  206. # [19:46] <annevk> krijnh, see the bit between ( and ) above from Philip`
  207. # [19:47] <annevk> krijnh, preferably, fix it, by resetting location.hash or something
  208. # [19:49] <zcorpan_> ddfreyne: so, do you have any feedback about why html5 wasn't so great after all? :)
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  210. # [19:50] <ddfreyne> zcorpan_: I do… not written down though
  211. # [19:50] <ddfreyne> (yet)
  212. # [19:51] <zcorpan_> ok
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  216. # [20:12] <ddfreyne> Interesting — google said "Did you mean: bioy _casares_" when I googled for HTML 5.
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  219. # [20:20] <annevk> was there inside the Acid3 directory a list with tests?
  220. # [20:21] <annevk> well, a list with browser bugs to exploit?
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  230. # [22:10] <jgraham> gsnedders: It would be nice to define how _anything_ is parsed first ;) Chris Wilson was very much against the idea of defining parsing
  231. # [22:10] * Joins: sgillies (n=chatzill@dsl-179-116.dynamic-dsl.frii.net)
  232. # [22:11] <gsnedders> jgraham: that's true, but aren't we really bound by the charter to define how to? (Or rather, describing the language in such a way that it will imply how to parse it)
  233. # [22:11] <jgraham> (But I generally agree, although I would have thought that a HTML fragment would be parsed like the .innerHTML case)
  234. # [22:11] <gsnedders> Then I think we should state that.
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  236. # [22:12] <jgraham> I entirely agree
  237. # [22:24] * Joins: met_ (n=Hassman@r5bx220.net.upc.cz)
  238. # [22:26] <zcorpan_> http://forums.whatwg.org/viewtopic.php?t=38#164
  239. # [22:26] <met_> zcorpan_, http://html456.blogspot.com/ yes? 8-)
  240. # [22:26] <zcorpan_> met_: yeah, care to translate? :)
  241. # [22:27] <met_> yes I can, but it is not necessary i am author of html456 8-)
  242. # [22:27] <met_> if you want anything to know, ask
  243. # [22:27] <zcorpan_> ok :)
  244. # [22:29] <Hixie> zcorpan_: not exactly sure what he's asking in that forum post
  245. # [22:29] * Quits: Voluminous (n=Volumino@unaffiliated/voluminous) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  246. # [22:29] <Hixie> did someone want some sort of mail to go out on-commit or something?
  247. # [22:30] <Hixie> and how do i do that? :-)
  248. # [22:31] <zcorpan_> Hixie: not sure either, perhaps he wants guidelines for authors as to what to use
  249. # [22:31] * Quits: ROBOd (n=robod@86.34.246.154) ("http://www.robodesign.ro")
  250. # [22:31] <Hixie> there's a syntax section, maybe we should add informative text to that or something
  251. # [22:31] <Hixie> if you can get him to tell you in more detail what he wants, let me know
  252. # [22:31] <met_> svn commit mails it was in discuccesed today yes
  253. # [22:31] <Hixie> (or mail the list with his request)
  254. # [22:32] <zcorpan_> ok
  255. # [22:36] * Joins: JasnaPaka (i=Pavel@ip-89-103-100-132.karneval.cz)
  256. # [22:52] <zcorpan_> Hixie: do you have data about how many pages use non-color values for <body bgcolor>? (it seems browsers do funny things with them in the parser)
  257. # [22:53] <Hixie> not off-hand no
  258. # [22:53] <zcorpan_> ok
  259. # [22:54] * zcorpan_ would write some testcases about that to find out exactly what happens but it would be nice to know if the web relies on it or not
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  261. # [22:55] <Hixie> define non-colour
  262. # [22:56] <Hixie> if you mean whether pages depend on the handling of bogus colours, like bgcolor="2138a", then yes, they do
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  264. # [22:58] <zcorpan_> ok
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  270. # [23:11] <zcorpan_> hm. < in unquoted attribute values. have i bugged about that before? the parsing section says < in an unquoted attribute value terminates the tag but all browsers i've tested just append it to the attribute value
  271. # [23:15] <zcorpan_> data:text/html,%3C!doctype%20html%3E%3Cp%20class%3Dfoo%3Ci%3EThis%20text%20should%20not%20be%20italic.
  272. # [23:16] <zcorpan_> (or well, per spec currently it should be italic)
  273. # [23:17] <Hixie> feel free to send mail about that again
  274. # [23:17] <Hixie> have you checked what browsers do with end tags and <?
  275. # [23:18] <zcorpan_> you mean </p class=foo<i> ?
  276. # [23:19] <zcorpan_> or <p class=foo</i> ?
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  279. # [23:21] <zcorpan_> in both cases (and with <p class=foo<?>) it's part of the attribute value
  280. # [23:23] <Hixie> or </p< or <p< for that matter
  281. # [23:24] * Joins: polin8_ (n=brian@dsl081-134-176.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  282. # [23:26] <zcorpan_> those are dealt with correctly in the spec afaict, it's just < in unquoted attribute values
  283. # [23:26] <Hixie> k
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  292. # [23:41] <met_> strange on http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=40318&public=1 is only D. Connolly marked as chair, not Ch. Wilson
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  296. # Session Close: Wed Apr 25 00:00:00 2007

The end :)