/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2007-05-04 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri May 04 00:00:00 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] <othermaciej> well, I don't know that it would persuade John Boyer, but it could be informative to others
  4. # [00:00] <Dashiva> Wow
  5. # [00:00] <Hixie> i guess i'll do that tomorrow
  6. # [00:00] <Dashiva> Chris isn't top-posting. It's a miracle!
  7. # [00:00] <Hixie> bbiab
  8. # [00:01] <othermaciej> Hixie: I actually didn't think it would be that easy to do that in WF2 (the Ajax combo box thing), I was pleasantly surprised
  9. # [00:01] <bewest> othermaciej: I think you really stuck a bee in his bonnet...
  10. # [00:01] <othermaciej> but Mark Birbeck brought up Ajax libraries
  11. # [00:01] * Quits: met_ (n=Hassman@r5bx220.net.upc.cz) ("Chemists never die, they just stop reacting.")
  12. # [00:02] * othermaciej is now known as om_coffee
  13. # [00:10] * Joins: epeus (i=KevinMar@nat/google/x-0ecc67a2b8744fe7)
  14. # [00:12] <zcorpan> <?php header("Content-Type: text/css"); include("http://html5.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/author-view-of-html5/author-view-of-html5.css"); ?>
  15. # [00:12] <zcorpan> shouldn't that work?
  16. # [00:12] <zcorpan> http://simon.html5.org/temp/author-view-of-html5.css
  17. # [00:13] * om_coffee is now known as othermaciej
  18. # [00:14] <Dashiva> Many systems block crossdomain includes
  19. # [00:15] <Philip`> "URL file-access is disabled in the server configuration" - seemingly not
  20. # [00:15] <hasather> yea, for security reasons
  21. # [00:15] <Philip`> PHP server configuration sounds like fun
  22. # [00:15] * zcorpan ponders
  23. # [00:15] <Dashiva> There is A Way (tm) around it
  24. # [00:16] <Philip`> Use Perl? ;-)
  25. # [00:16] <zcorpan> or python
  26. # [00:16] <Philip`> You could write an Apache module in C
  27. # [00:17] <zcorpan> how does one include in python?
  28. # [00:19] <Dashiva> I would try fopen, and if that fails too, fsockopen
  29. # [00:19] * zcorpan finds http://www.diveintopython.org/http_web_services/review.html
  30. # [00:20] <Philip`> import urllib; print urllib.urlopen("http://google.com").read()
  31. # [00:20] <Philip`> perhaps
  32. # [00:20] <zcorpan> yeah
  33. # [00:21] <Philip`> Ah
  34. # [00:25] * Quits: KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  35. # [00:34] <bewest> <?php header("Content-Type: text/css"); echo file_get_contents("$url"); ?>
  36. # [00:34] <bewest> not include
  37. # [00:35] <Dashiva> Isn't file_get_contents blocked by the same setting as include?
  38. # [00:35] <bewest> no
  39. # [00:35] <bewest> include means execute as php code
  40. # [00:35] <bewest> it's like using eval
  41. # [00:35] <bewest> which is why it's dangerous to use with URLs
  42. # [00:35] <bewest> file_get_contents just reads a file-like object stream
  43. # [00:36] <Dashiva> "You can use a URL as a filename with this function if the fopen wrappers have been enabled."
  44. # [00:36] <Dashiva> If "URL fopen wrappers" are enabled in PHP (...), you can specify the file to be included using a URL
  45. # [00:36] <Dashiva> Seems like the same to me
  46. # [00:36] <zcorpan> "URL file-access is disabled in the server configuration"
  47. # [00:37] <zcorpan> my attempt to do it with python only resulted in 500 internal error
  48. # [00:37] <hasather> zcorpan: is the file executable?
  49. # [00:37] <zcorpan> hasather: yes
  50. # [00:37] <bewest> include is not the same
  51. # [00:37] <bewest> include is like import
  52. # [00:37] <bewest> in python
  53. # [00:37] <hasather> zcorpan: do you have the shebang?
  54. # [00:37] <bewest> or use in perl
  55. # [00:37] <Dashiva> The functionality doesn't matter, the fact is they're blocked by the same setting
  56. # [00:38] <zcorpan> hasather: what shebang?
  57. # [00:38] <hasather> zcorpan: #!/usr/bin/env python
  58. # [00:38] <zcorpan> hasather: yes
  59. # [00:38] <hasather> hmm, ok
  60. # [00:38] * Quits: tantek (n=tantek@wsip-24-120-86-254.lv.lv.cox.net)
  61. # [00:38] <zcorpan> and SetHandler cgi-script
  62. # [00:38] <Dashiva> zcorpan: What if you only do the import and not the print/urlopen call?
  63. # [00:39] <zcorpan> Dashiva: i commented out everything and still got 500
  64. # [00:39] <Philip`> Are you just doing 'print "Content-Type: text/css\r\n\r\n"' in Python?
  65. # [00:39] <zcorpan> oh, perhaps need that
  66. # [00:39] <zcorpan> forgot
  67. # [00:40] * nlogax_ is now known as nlogax
  68. # [00:43] <zcorpan> nope
  69. # [00:46] <zcorpan> <Files author-view-of-html5.css>
  70. # [00:46] <zcorpan> ForceType text/plain
  71. # [00:46] <zcorpan> SetHandler cgi-script
  72. # [00:46] <zcorpan> </Files>
  73. # [00:47] <zcorpan> ah!
  74. # [00:48] <zcorpan> #!/usr/bin/python works
  75. # [00:49] * Joins: tantek (n=tantek@67.136.236.231)
  76. # [00:49] <zcorpan> success!
  77. # [00:56] <Dashiva> Good, because using fsockopen requires you to write and parse HTTP manually
  78. # [01:01] * othermaciej is now known as om_meet
  79. # [01:09] * Quits: epeus (i=KevinMar@nat/google/x-0ecc67a2b8744fe7) ("The computer fell asleep")
  80. # [01:14] <Philip`> The PHP manual's user comments are fun - there's one with a code sample saying "This might help a bit for security (no guarantees)" which, naturally, is buggy and doesn't help with security at all
  81. # [01:23] * Quits: billmason (n=billmaso@ip156.unival.com) (".")
  82. # [01:28] * jgraham just checked in the html5lib parse tree viewing web-app bits to http://code.google.com/p/html5/
  83. # [01:30] * Joins: KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@nat/google/x-1541cd354be46a2a)
  84. # [01:30] <jgraham> If anyone has any suggestions for a place to host that more stable than "over my dsl connection" that would be good :)
  85. # [01:31] * jgraham feels he should emphasise again the code is not production quality
  86. # [01:36] <hasather> jgraham: do you want a suggestion for a place where you could host it, or do you want someone to host it for you?
  87. # [01:37] <jgraham> hasather: Well preferably the latter but if you know of somewhere that has cheap webhosting with excellent python support and reasonable customer service that would be good too :)
  88. # [01:38] <hasather> jgraham: I could throw it up on my server if you want
  89. # [01:39] <jgraham> That sounds good
  90. # [01:41] <jgraham> Assuming you don't mind and won't object to getting the occasional request to update it, that is :)
  91. # [01:41] <hasather> jgraham: nope :)
  92. # [01:42] * jgraham has to sleep now
  93. # [01:43] <hasather> jgraham: I fix it tomorrow, good night
  94. # [01:55] * om_meet is now known as othermaciej
  95. # [02:01] <zcorpan> Hixie: you think you could add jdandrea@gmail.com to the html5 google project?
  96. # [02:02] <zcorpan> (he wants to contribute to the style sheet)
  97. # [02:02] <Hixie> done
  98. # [02:02] <zcorpan> thanks
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  103. # [02:28] <Hixie> othermaciej: btw, john is wrong on almost all counts on his description of the problems with the wf2 repetition model
  104. # [02:28] <Hixie> notwithstanding that it does suck
  105. # [02:28] <othermaciej> Hixie: at least he gave actual technical feedback on a specific point!
  106. # [02:29] <Hixie> indeed
  107. # [02:29] <othermaciej> Hixie: B.F. Skinner says he must receive a treat to reinforce this behavior
  108. # [02:30] <bewest> is there some short javascript function I can use to detect whether a browser is in strict or quirks mode?
  109. # [02:30] <Hixie> if we do this <repeat> thing, i really would want the repeated blocks of the template to be in the DOM, but that doesn't really mesh well with the requirements
  110. # [02:30] <Hixie> hm
  111. # [02:30] <Hixie> bewest: look at document.compatMode
  112. # [02:30] <Hixie> it'll be CSS1Compat or QuirksMode, iirc
  113. # [02:30] <Hixie> or something like that
  114. # [02:30] <Philip`> BackCompat, I think
  115. # [02:31] <Hixie> oh right
  116. # [02:31] <Hixie> BackCompat
  117. # [02:31] <bewest> oOOoo
  118. # [02:31] <bewest> nice
  119. # [02:31] <Philip`> (http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/DOM:document.compatMode)
  120. # [02:31] <Hixie> is doesn't expose Almost Standards Mode
  121. # [02:31] <Hixie> it
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  123. # [02:32] <Philip`> (A more consistent naming convention for the various frozen-bug modes might be nice)
  124. # [02:33] <zcorpan> opera used to have QuirksMode. now it's BackCompat
  125. # [02:33] <Philip`> (except the old inconsistent names have to be frozen too, for backward compatibility...)
  126. # [02:34] <zcorpan> Hixie: you think it would be realistic to get the css21 spec changed to reflect almost standards mode (so the two modes can be merged)?
  127. # [02:35] <bewest> thanks
  128. # [02:36] <zcorpan> (aiui, it would only affect handling of replaced inline elements when there is no text or non-replaced inline elements in the same line box)
  129. # [02:37] <Hixie> zcorpan: realistic how?
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  133. # [03:03] <zcorpan> that the wg would accept the proposal to spec how almost standards mode works
  134. # [03:05] <Hixie> oh. no.
  135. # [03:05] <Hixie> they won't even accept that we define how tables render in quirks mode
  136. # [03:05] <Hixie> _and_ standards mode
  137. # [03:05] <Hixie> (which is the same)
  138. # [03:05] <Hixie> instead insisting that the css spec say that html tables are undefined and xhtml tables are different
  139. # [03:05] <zcorpan> yeah
  140. # [03:07] <zcorpan> what i thought was that if i could spec something that implementors can agree on and implement then the csswg could either ignore reality and or accept the proposal
  141. # [03:07] <zcorpan> s/and or/or/
  142. # [03:07] <Hixie> almost standards is basically an entirely different inline box model
  143. # [03:07] <zcorpan> yes
  144. # [03:07] <Hixie> the inline box model is the most complicated part of css
  145. # [03:08] <zcorpan> yeah... i'm not saying it's trivial... just that any ua would have to implement almost standards mode anyway
  146. # [03:08] <Hixie> yeah
  147. # [03:08] <Hixie> certainly i'm not going to discourage you from trying to spec it
  148. # [03:08] <zcorpan> so having something different in the spec is not helful imho (since there are more ASM documents than there is SM documents on the web)
  149. # [03:09] <Hixie> but it's not something i plan on being involved with for a while :-)
  150. # [03:09] <Hixie> yeah i gave up on the csswg a few months back
  151. # [03:09] <zcorpan> ok
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  157. # [03:30] <othermaciej> Hixie: well, it seems like The Director didn't accept the CSS WG's stance on tables
  158. # [03:30] <othermaciej> although of course that has limited value in getting to do something good
  159. # [03:31] <othermaciej> zcorpan: I think there are factions in the csswg that are low on willingness to acknowledge reality
  160. # [03:32] <zcorpan> well... so long as implementors can agree on implementing something then i'm happy. if the csswg ignores it then oh well
  161. # [03:32] <othermaciej> csswg has not gone sufficiently down the tubes yet for implementors to entirely rebel
  162. # [03:33] <zcorpan> keeping almost standards mode and standards mode is also an option, but i'd still like to spec ASM
  163. # [03:33] <zcorpan> i would like them to be merged though
  164. # [03:34] <zcorpan> my limited testing so far has shown that there is not interop in ASM handling
  165. # [03:34] <othermaciej> I would prefer standards mode to change to match ASM
  166. # [03:34] <othermaciej> zcorpan: what's the lack of interop?
  167. # [03:34] <zcorpan> when to use the real line box model or not
  168. # [03:34] <zcorpan> e.g. if you have <div><img> <img></div>
  169. # [03:35] <zcorpan> vs. <div><img><img></div> vs. <div><img>x<img></div>
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  171. # [03:35] <othermaciej> which one of those has layout differences, and in what browsers?
  172. # [03:37] <zcorpan> iirc, the first is equivalent to the second in ie, but equivalent to the third in gecko
  173. # [03:37] <zcorpan> i'll have to do a lot more testing on this though
  174. # [03:40] <zcorpan> also, is a non-replaced empty inline element that has a border enough to trigger the real line box model or not? at least opera and gecko disagree about that in ASM
  175. # [03:41] <zcorpan> (gecko does the same as in SM in that case, opera doesn't)
  176. # [03:41] <othermaciej> well, IE has no difference between ASM and SM
  177. # [03:41] <zcorpan> i know
  178. # [03:41] <othermaciej> and both may be wrong
  179. # [03:42] <othermaciej> the first matching the third is probably an artifact of IE dropping whitespace text nodes entirely
  180. # [03:42] <othermaciej> wait, I guess they wouldn't in that case
  181. # [03:42] <zcorpan> no, the text node is there
  182. # [03:42] <othermaciej> so nevermind
  183. # [03:42] <othermaciej> if you can't easily test in Safari yourself I can help (though not right now, most go soon)
  184. # [03:43] <zcorpan> sure, thanks
  185. # [03:43] <zcorpan> i'll let you know when i have more tests
  186. # [03:45] <bzed> jgraham: btw, html5lib is in Debian's testing/unstable since a few days
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  189. # [03:55] * zcorpan finds the new buzzword "POSH"
  190. # [03:55] <zcorpan> seems to be the same as the "XHTML" buzz a few years back
  191. # [03:55] <zcorpan> just without the X :)
  192. # [03:58] * Quits: bzed (n=bzed@dslb-084-059-104-121.pools.arcor-ip.net) (Remote closed the connection)
  193. # [04:12] <zcorpan> so HTML5 without style="" would be POSH5 :)
  194. # [04:13] <marcosc> :D
  195. # [04:18] <zcorpan> http://www.ilimitado.de/blog/allgemeines/whatwg-kundigt-html6-an/
  196. # [04:26] <Philip`> The danger of making April Fools' jokes not quite obvious enough :-)
  197. # [04:27] * zcorpan commented
  198. # [04:34] * zcorpan notes that the whatwg blog's tagline is now "Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!"
  199. # [04:34] <Hixie> heh
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  238. # [10:58] <hsivonen> whoa. so many points about style='' that I think I'll reply to list
  239. # [11:00] <annevk> please also point out the problems with style=
  240. # [11:01] <hsivonen> Philip`: Konq doctype: ack
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  242. # [11:55] <annevk> help, HTML5 links to CSSOM
  243. # [12:06] <annevk> hsivonen, the case study is really about adding target= through scripting
  244. # [12:11] <hsivonen> annevk: is that really what the ALA types are doing these days?
  245. # [12:12] <annevk> that's the script on sitepoint
  246. # [12:12] <annevk> i also made one of those scripts
  247. # [12:12] <annevk> using rel=external
  248. # [12:12] <annevk> as indicator
  249. # [12:12] <hsivonen> wow. aren't people even interested in fooling themselves anymore?
  250. # [12:13] <annevk> i don't really see the difference with window.open()
  251. # [12:13] <annevk> people are also using <script> to write out <embed>
  252. # [12:13] <annevk> for Flash
  253. # [12:13] <annevk> (before Eolas)
  254. # [12:18] <Philip`> Maybe there could be a i-know-this-is-nonconforming-but-let-me-do-it-anyway="true" attribute, which makes conformance checkers look away while you do something naughty because the alternatives are worse
  255. # [12:19] <zcorpan> ...or you make those cases conforming
  256. # [12:22] <annevk> "embrace and extend" :)
  257. # [12:22] <hsivonen> annevk, Philip`: do you have suggestions with better net effects?
  258. # [12:23] <annevk> i'm not against
  259. # [12:23] * annevk is all for target
  260. # [12:23] <annevk> let authors indicate what they want
  261. # [12:23] <annevk> let the user decide what to do with that information
  262. # [12:25] <annevk> implemented EndTagShort, EndTag, Pi so far...
  263. # [12:25] <annevk> didn't do anything fancy for Pi though... just extracting the name and its contents
  264. # [12:29] <hsivonen> annevk: is your XML5 error recovery streamable (i.e. SAX-friendly)?
  265. # [12:30] <annevk> like not having adoption agency?
  266. # [12:30] <hsivonen> annevk: yes
  267. # [12:30] <annevk> yes
  268. # [12:31] <hsivonen> annevk: cool
  269. # [12:31] <annevk> although it's not entirely clear how this will work out with entities
  270. # [12:31] <annevk> because of the looping
  271. # [12:31] <hsivonen> looping?
  272. # [12:31] <annevk> two entity definitions that refer to each other
  273. # [12:31] <annevk> (entities are like templates)
  274. # [12:32] <hsivonen> my point is that if you are looking for adoption and a wide buy-in, you cannot sacrifice the performance properties of streaming parsers
  275. # [12:32] * Quits: billyjack (n=MikeSmit@58.157.21.205) ("Get thee behind me, satan.")
  276. # [12:32] <hsivonen> annevk: that's not exposed through ContentHandler anyway
  277. # [12:32] <annevk> yeah, so presumably this is a solved problem already because their entity checking happens during streaming
  278. # [12:33] <annevk> except that I don't throw an error but print out the looping entity or simply drop it
  279. # [12:33] <annevk> (well, an error too)
  280. # [12:33] <hsivonen> annevk: do you have a prescribed anti-billion laughs limit?
  281. # [12:34] <hsivonen> you need 16 for the XHTML+SVG+MathML DTD, IIRC
  282. # [12:34] <hsivonen> 16 as the depth, that is
  283. # [12:35] <annevk> what's that?
  284. # [12:36] <annevk> I'm not doing DTDs
  285. # [12:36] <zcorpan> annevk: one more thing i'm curious about, will there be only be one conformance level? e.g. non-validating that don't fetch external entities, but know about some FPIs?
  286. # [12:36] <zcorpan> annevk: but you'll have to spec the internal subset, right?
  287. # [12:37] <annevk> yes, yes
  288. # [12:37] <zcorpan> ok
  289. # [12:37] <zcorpan> good :)
  290. # [12:37] <annevk> (i'm not sure I'll do the crap about known FPIs)
  291. # [12:37] <annevk> just predefine a bunch of cool entities
  292. # [12:38] <annevk> actually, I'm sure I won't do FPIs in my initial version
  293. # [12:38] <annevk> the initial version will ignore all that
  294. # [12:38] <zcorpan> ok
  295. # [12:38] <hsivonen> annevk: aren't you required to do the internal subset?
  296. # [12:39] <annevk> FPIs != internal subset right?
  297. # [12:39] <hsivonen> Formal Public Identifier
  298. # [12:39] <hsivonen> -//blahblah DTD// ffo //EN
  299. # [12:39] * annevk will do the internal subset, including entities, default attribute values, attribute types and parameter entities
  300. # [12:39] <annevk> right, that's simply ignored
  301. # [12:39] <hsivonen> annevk: billion laughs can be delivered in the internal subset
  302. # [12:40] <annevk> still need to know what it is
  303. # [12:40] * annevk -> lunch
  304. # [12:40] <hsivonen> annevk: it is a denial of service attack
  305. # [12:40] <hsivonen> annevk: I'd rather not paste a test case URL here, because someone might open it in a vulnerable browser
  306. # [12:41] <zcorpan> <!ENTITY ha "ha! ha! "><!ENTITY ha1 "&ha; &ha;">... &ha128;
  307. # [12:41] <hsivonen> http://agorf.void.gr/blog/archive/2005/11/05/the-billion-laughs-attack/
  308. # [12:41] <hsivonen> beware of the further links there
  309. # [12:42] <zcorpan> those links are 404s :)
  310. # [13:13] <annevk> hsivonen, so laughs is looped entities?
  311. # [13:14] <annevk> that page doesn't tell me much
  312. # [13:14] <annevk> given that the links are broken
  313. # [13:17] <hsivonen> annevk: not looped. growing to power of two. see what zcorpan said above
  314. # [13:19] <annevk> oh right
  315. # [13:19] <annevk> suggestions for entity tokenizing welcome
  316. # [14:02] <Dashiva> This seems relevant: http://www.bash.org/?684098
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  326. # [16:24] <annevk> is <x foo=bar/> a start or empty tag?
  327. # [16:25] * annevk leaves it a start tag for now
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  341. # [17:16] <annevk> hmm, doctypes
  342. # [17:30] <jdandrea> annevk: <x foo=bar/> - my knee-jerk reaction is "that's a start tag."
  343. # [17:30] <jdandrea> (which happens to comprise an empty element)
  344. # [17:31] <Lachy> it would make the most sense to parse <x foo=bar/> similarly to HTML5, which treats it like <x foo="bar/">
  345. # [17:32] <Lachy> so it's just a start tag
  346. # [17:32] <jdandrea> Lachy: Oh! I see the distinction. Subtle. :)
  347. # [17:32] <jdandrea> It's not even an empty element then.
  348. # [17:34] * moeffju[Work] is now known as moeffju
  349. # [17:35] <Philip`> Given how people like writing <x /> in XML, it could be convenient to have <x foo=bar/> === <x foo="bar/"> and then <x foo=bar /> === <x foo="bar"/>
  350. # [17:35] <Lachy> Philip`, yes
  351. # [17:36] <Philip`> (so, rather than forcing them to go back and add two quotes when they get it wrong, they only have to go back and add a space if they get it wrong)
  352. # [17:37] <Lachy> that depends on whether or not omitting quotes is conforming or not
  353. # [17:37] <Philip`> Does anyone care if that's conforming, as long as it parses correctly? :-)
  354. # [17:38] <Lachy> yes, it's important to have sensible document conformance requirements, so that conformance checkers can issue errors, that help authors fix documents if the error recovery isn't what they actually intended
  355. # [17:39] * Quits: met_ (n=Hassman@b14-4.vscht.cz) ("Chemists never die, they just stop reacting.")
  356. # [17:39] <Lachy> it could be that the author intended <x foo=bar/> to be an empty element, but because quotes were omitted accidentially, it's not
  357. # [17:40] <jdandrea> So, at the very least, the author should be warned.
  358. # [17:40] <Lachy> conformance checkers should mostly emit errors instead of warnings
  359. # [17:41] <jdandrea> In the <x foo=bar/> case, would the checker issue a warning or an error?
  360. # [17:41] <Lachy> though, warnings are ok for things that are technically conforming, but not advisable, or explicitly requested by the person checking the doc
  361. # [17:42] <Lachy> an error
  362. # [17:42] <jdandrea> Ah, because it's non-conforming. Got it.
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  365. # [17:45] <Philip`> Hmm, I think I'm missing the reason why rather than having error recovery for non-conforming documents that works almost but not quite properly, which will hurt people in rare cases (like when they add a / to an attribute value), it isn't more convenient to have error recovery that makes it obvious those cases are wrong (e.g. by parsing <x foo=bar> into <x foo="" bar="">) so the author knows their code is likely to break in the future (without them usi
  366. # [17:45] <Philip`> ...using a conformance checker)
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  368. # [17:47] <Lachy> Philip`, that would be an example of non-fatal error recovery that could significantly break a document
  369. # [17:49] <Lachy> e.g. consider this XHTML: <div class=content> (div used for layout)</div>, the .content selector would no longer apply with that suggested parsing, and so the layout could break significantly
  370. # [17:49] * Joins: nlogax (i=nlogax@c-2313e353.04-10-65736b1.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  371. # [17:51] <Philip`> The lack of "" doesn't seem like an error that's going to creep in without the document author noticing (unlike how unencoded &s and badly-nested tags and broken character encodings can creep in) - maybe they'd write 'print "<x foo=$bar>";' once but then they'd notice when testing (since it's not complex dynamically-generated output) and fix it to 'print "<x foo=\"$bar\">;' and it'll work alright
  372. # [17:52] <Philip`> Lachy: Is this meant to be somewhat backward compatible with HTML5 documents?
  373. # [17:52] <Lachy> being somewhat consistent would have the path of least surprise for authors
  374. # [17:53] <Lachy> s/have/be/
  375. # [17:54] <Philip`> Ah, okay
  376. # [17:55] <Philip`> I guess the problem is <x foo="bar/"> would be the least surprising parse for HTML authors, but <x foo="bar"/> would be the least surprising for XML authors, so you have to consider which is more prevalent and which is least good at writing well-formed documents, in which case I guess you should minimise surprise for HTML authors :-)
  377. # [17:56] <Philip`> *consider which group of authors is ...
  378. # [18:06] * Quits: ddfreyne (n=ddfreyne@unaffiliated/ddfreyne) ("k lol plz thx bai")
  379. # [18:10] <jdandrea> Minor nit: In WA 1.0 section 3.9.4 shouldn't the example dt and dd elements have end tags?
  380. # [18:10] * jdandrea is looking at http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/section-prose.html#dialog
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  383. # [18:14] <Philip`> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/section-writing.html#optional says the end tags are optional
  384. # [18:22] * Joins: tantek (n=tantek@67.136.239.29)
  385. # [18:25] * zcorpan points to http://forums.whatwg.org/viewtopic.php?t=30
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  387. # [18:31] <jdandrea> Philip `: Ahh, yes indeed - just when I think I've stumbled upon something. Thx. :)
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The end :)