/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2007-07-02 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Jul 02 00:00:00 2007
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  16. # [01:38] <Hixie> hsivonen: you sent four mails right?
  17. # [01:38] <Hixie> about the parser?
  18. # [01:46] <webben> hsivonen: re http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Jul/0064.html and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Jul/0067.html, a problem with FIrefox 1.04 (of all things) is not really a problem with AT, is it? I'm also not sure why we're evaluating old methods of embedding Flash rather than the newest techniques: http://alistapart.com/articles/flashembedcagematch/ . (These methods are continuing to evolve.)
  19. # [01:47] <webben> (Firefox 1.04 didn't have effective screen reader support.)
  20. # [01:56] <Philip`> I was beginning to think that browsers weren't that bad at drawing lines, but then I reached arcTo and my hopes were shattered :-(
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  52. # [09:02] <Hixie> sweet
  53. # [09:02] <Hixie> it works
  54. # [09:03] <Hixie> the "table model" algorithms for forming a table totally work and generate actual tables that are what the markup was!
  55. # [09:03] <Hixie> i guess i shouldn't be so surprised but that's pretty damn cool.
  56. # [09:04] <Hixie> tomorrow i can do the scope="" and headers="" stuff
  57. # [09:04] <Hixie> now that i have actual tables
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  60. # [09:16] <annevk> what language did you wrote your model in?
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  63. # [09:21] <hsivonen> Hixie: yes, I sent 4 emails.
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  69. # [09:57] <annevk> "were many things which WHATwg want to delete, are mentioned (ACRONYM, non-visual rendering of TABLES amongst them.)"
  70. # [09:58] <annevk> FO 4
  71. # [09:58] <annevk> these people are crazy
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  78. # [11:14] <zcorpan_> what's the reason that i like testing parsing more than testing other things? :)
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  80. # [11:15] <annevk> parsing is trivial? :p
  81. # [11:15] <zcorpan_> perhaps :)
  82. # [11:15] <zcorpan_> but not really
  83. # [11:15] <annevk> btw, any chance you'll make some script that converts html5lib testdata to browser usable tests?
  84. # [11:16] <annevk> because making html5lib tests is trivial
  85. # [11:16] <zcorpan_> hmm, i could look into that
  86. # [11:16] <annevk> someone from mozilla already did some work
  87. # [11:16] <zcorpan_> pointer?
  88. # [11:16] <annevk> I'm afraid I don't have a pointer
  89. # [11:17] <annevk> the only thing you need to do is get the result DOM
  90. # [11:17] <annevk> iterate over it
  91. # [11:17] <zcorpan_> load the tests in an iframe
  92. # [11:17] <annevk> yeah
  93. # [11:17] <annevk> and from the restult DOM you make a string and compare that with the #document data
  94. # [11:17] <zcorpan_> ah yep
  95. # [11:18] <zcorpan_> seems pretty straightforward
  96. # [11:19] <zcorpan_> do the existing tests assume that scripting is enabled? or disabled?
  97. # [11:19] <annevk> I think enabled, but scripting support is not there
  98. # [11:20] <zcorpan_> might perhaps be good to split up the tests that assume that scripting is enabled or disabled (or neither)
  99. # [11:21] <annevk> I suppose we could make extensions
  100. # [11:21] <annevk> #data --scripting-disabled
  101. # [11:21] <zcorpan_> perhaps
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  103. # [11:23] <annevk> don't know what's best
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  105. # [11:24] <zcorpan_> not sure if it's possible to enable/disable scripting on a per test basis
  106. # [11:25] <zcorpan_> my port would probably only work with tests that don't assume that scripting is disabled
  107. # [11:26] <annevk> sure
  108. # [11:26] <annevk> you could have some server-side script that organizes the tests for you or something
  109. # [11:26] <annevk> in that case you can simply make a scripting-enabled and scripting-disabled folder
  110. # [11:26] <annevk> dunno
  111. # [11:29] <annevk> to start it would be nice to have some JS that does DOM -> #document\n...
  112. # [11:29] <zcorpan_> yeah
  113. # [11:29] <annevk> then we can compare browsers to html5lib more easily
  114. # [11:30] * zcorpan_ looks at the live dom viewer code
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  116. # [11:31] <zcorpan_> hmm, what if the dom isn't a tree
  117. # [11:32] <annevk> Hixie has solved that issue
  118. # [11:32] <annevk> I suppose you just keep a pointer around and check if you haven't encountered the node before
  119. # [11:32] <zcorpan_> yeah, but the html5lib test output format doesn't support non-trees
  120. # [11:33] <annevk> oh
  121. # [11:33] <annevk> elementname - graph
  122. # [11:33] <annevk> just output something that makes it non-conforming
  123. # [11:46] <annevk> (if we have that script it can be integrated with the thing david has)
  124. # [11:47] <jgraham> http://lxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/parser/htmlparser/tests/mochitest/
  125. # [11:47] <annevk> http://hasather.net/html5/parsetree/
  126. # [11:47] <annevk> jgraham, cool
  127. # [11:56] <hsivonen> I wonder if sayrer is writing a new HTML parser or changing the old one
  128. # [11:57] <hsivonen> (I wouldn't want to change the old one)
  129. # [11:57] <annevk> dunno, seems like mrbkap is still fixing the old one
  130. # [11:57] <annevk> (from the couple of bug numbers referenced there)
  131. # [11:58] <annevk> they also checked out all the old tests
  132. # [12:03] <annevk> jgraham, btw, how easy is it to extend all treebuilders to support two more variables for DOCTYPE?
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  136. # [12:44] <zcorpan_> http://simon.html5.org/temp/dom-tostring.html
  137. # [12:52] <zcorpan_> please tell me if i can improve the function, i think it is doing some unnecessary things (looping too many times or something)
  138. # [12:52] <zcorpan_> or if i got the format wrong
  139. # [12:57] * Fuzzy76 is now known as fuzzy76
  140. # [12:58] <hsivonen> zcorpan_: well, if you wanted to optimize performance (which isn't really necessary), you could traverse the DOM using an iterative algorithm instead of a recursive one
  141. # [13:04] <zcorpan_> hsivonen: hmm, ok. i think i'll leave it as is for now
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  147. # [14:06] <zcorpan_> the selectors api naming issue will never end
  148. # [14:10] <annevk> I wonder when HTML 5 will get issues like that
  149. # [14:10] <annevk> hopefully when everything is already shipped in implementations
  150. # [14:16] <zcorpan_> selectorQuery/selectorQueryAll seem to be good names
  151. # [14:18] <annevk> wfm
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  153. # [14:33] <Lachy> yeah, I like those names too. It looks like a reasonable compromise between selectElement and cssQuery, but I have a feeling there's going to be someone that doesn't like it
  154. # [14:35] <zcorpan_> of course someone won't like it
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  167. # [16:20] <zcorpan> so why doesn't this work? http://simon.html5.org/temp/html5lib-tests/wrapper.html
  168. # [16:22] <annevk> you're not invoking send()?
  169. # [16:22] <annevk> with my XHR2 that would not be necessary but it seems that it will not going to fly :)
  170. # [16:25] <Lachy> how is XHR2 going to know when to implicitly invoke send()?
  171. # [16:25] <annevk> much like Audio(src)
  172. # [16:25] <annevk> anyway, not going to happen
  173. # [16:26] <annevk> new XMLHttpRequest(method, src) is likely the only shortcut that makes some sense
  174. # [16:26] <Philip`> Sounds like about the same as setTimeout(fn, 0) too (i.e. as soon as possible after the current script has finished)
  175. # [16:26] <annevk> yeah
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  177. # [16:31] <zcorpan__> hmm, is tests1.txt parsed as xml or something?
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  179. # [16:33] <annevk> shouldn't matter for responseText
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  181. # [16:34] <zcorpan__> Error: syntax error
  182. # [16:34] <zcorpan__> Source File: file://loca.....l5lib-tests/tests1.txt
  183. # [16:34] <zcorpan__> Line: 1, Column: 1
  184. # [16:34] <zcorpan__> Source Code:
  185. # [16:34] <zcorpan__> #data
  186. # [16:35] <annevk> oh, in Firefox?
  187. # [16:35] <zcorpan__> yeah
  188. # [16:36] <annevk> they have some issues there I believe
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  211. # [18:25] <virtuelv> hm, wonder which version of Safari the iPhone is based on
  212. # [18:26] <virtuelv> Row 1 and 4+5 of Acid2 fails
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  215. # [18:27] <Philip`> virtuelv: It calls itself "Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/1A543a Safari/419.3" which sounds like a possibly old WebKit
  216. # [18:29] <virtuelv> then this too: http://www.johnmurch.com/2007/07/01/iphone-javascript-and-spec-benchmark/ makes sense
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  219. # [18:30] <Philip`> Looks like someone tried running Canvex on an iPhone - I wonder what kind of performance they get...
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  249. # [20:43] <jgraham> annevk: The only issue I can think of with adding more doctype stuff to the treebuilders is several tree types don't really support the concept of doctypes
  250. # [20:44] <jgraham> There have been hacked in various ways to support the concept e.g. by having elements with tagnames like "<!doctype>"
  251. # [20:45] <jgraham> But where we hacked we can hack a little more
  252. # [20:45] <jgraham> :)
  253. # [20:51] * Parts: mw22 (n=chatzill@h8441169151.dsl.speedlinq.nl)
  254. # [20:53] <hsivonen> jgraham: my plan is not to expose the doctype by default through APIs designed for XML
  255. # [20:54] <jgraham> hsivonen: We need it for running tests. By default it is stripped when a special flag is not set
  256. # [20:54] <hsivonen> annevk: the doctype node stuff is for browsers. it is rather pointless for parsing libraries meant for non-browser use cases
  257. # [20:55] <hsivonen> jgraham: OK. I guess I have to support doctypes in SAX (buffered and streaming)
  258. # [20:55] <hsivonen> but supporting them in the DOM just sucks without a backdoor API
  259. # [20:56] <jgraham> (that is, it is stripped where it not supported by the underlying tree)
  260. # [20:57] <hsivonen> if the use case is making a drop-in library for apps that now use an XML parser, exposing the doctype might be more harm than good
  261. # [20:58] <hsivonen> but yeah, supporting doctype exposure in SAX and XOM is reasonable
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The end :)