/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2007-07-12 / end

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  105. # [11:19] <Hixie> hm
  106. # [11:19] <Hixie> are there really two parse errors for "<!DOCTYPE" but only one for "<!DOCTYPE "?
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  109. # [11:28] <hsivonen> Hixie: yes
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  111. # [11:29] <hsivonen> Hixie: probably not worth tweaking
  112. # [11:42] <hsivonen> <b><table><td></b><i></table>X
  113. # [11:42] <hsivonen> Why isn't <b> supposed to reopen before X?
  114. # [12:10] <Hixie> isn't it?
  115. # [12:11] <Hixie> oh because the table is in the <b>
  116. # [12:11] <Hixie> and so the X is still in the <b>
  117. # [12:11] <Hixie> the </b> in the above has no effect
  118. # [12:13] <virtuelv> Hixie: How's Bergen?
  119. # [12:22] <gsnedders> http://geoffers.no-ip.com/svn/php-html-5-direct/tests/numbersTest
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  121. # [12:24] <Hixie> virtuelv: rainy
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  123. # [12:25] <Hixie> gsnedders: does that match the spec or the spec with your proposed changes?
  124. # [12:25] <gsnedders> Hixie: the spec
  125. # [12:26] <virtuelv> Hixie: Norway's been pretty much like that for a couple of weeks now
  126. # [12:26] <gsnedders> Hixie: even when the spec does very odd things (like a list of integers with input "10" outputting [1])
  127. # [12:27] <Hixie> gsnedders: k
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  129. # [12:27] <Hixie> gsnedders: can you include that link in one of your e-mails? (or just mail it directly to me ian@hixie.ch) I'll try to look at what browsers do with those tests when I update the spec
  130. # [12:28] <gsnedders> Hixie: I'm going to email it shortly
  131. # [12:28] <gsnedders> Hixie: just a few more general issues with the number section, then my review of that is done, and I'll send it off with the final email
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  134. # [12:28] <hsivonen> Hixie: ah, I didn't realized the table was in b. I've got a bug then.
  135. # [12:30] <virtuelv> Hixie: re DOMContentLoaded - it'd be useful to have some event when the DOM is loaded and styles are available/applied
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  138. # [12:49] <hsivonen> translating the spec to code would be less error-prone if the spec didn't have gotos that create unnatural loops
  139. # [12:50] <gsnedders> hsivonen: heh. I ended up with a do {} while (true); in my implementation of the lists of integers.
  140. # [12:50] <gsnedders> then relying on break and continue statements
  141. # [12:50] <hsivonen> gsnedders: I'm pretty sure do-while is always natural
  142. # [12:50] <hsivonen> (natural in the compiler sense)
  143. # [12:51] <gsnedders> ah. in that sense.
  144. # [12:51] <gsnedders> (of natural)
  145. # [12:51] <gsnedders> PHP likely does something odd with it, though, knowing PHP.
  146. # [12:52] <gsnedders> has anyone apart from zcorpan_ and myself started the spec review, anyway?
  147. # [12:52] <hsivonen> if I had to guess, my guess would be that even PHP created only natural loops for the purpose of compiler optimization
  148. # [12:52] <hsivonen> gsnedders: I'm reviewing the parsing spec as I go
  149. # [12:53] <hsivonen> gsnedders: I don't have much to say about tokenization, but I have posted remark about tree building
  150. # [12:55] <gsnedders> hsivonen: ah. I just haven't seen that much.
  151. # [12:56] <hsivonen> lost in the flood I guess :-(
  152. # [12:56] <gsnedders> ah, now I see
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  155. # [13:03] <Hixie> hsivonen: believe me, the spec doesn't look like what i'd want it to look like if i was doing this from scratch
  156. # [13:03] <Hixie> anyway, time to be a tourist
  157. # [13:04] <gsnedders> Hixie: rarely anything ends up as you'd like it to if you started from scratch :P
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  168. # [13:27] <hsivonen> <a><p>X<a>Y</a>Z</p></a>
  169. # [13:28] <hsivonen> Why does the first <a> come off the stack before <p> goes in?
  170. # [13:28] <hsivonen> ooh. does the p get reparented?
  171. # [13:30] <hsivonen> now I'm confused
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  173. # [13:45] <met_> http://ajaxian.com/archives/google-gears-roadmap-and-features
  174. # [13:45] <hsivonen> ooh! my code lacks step #10 of the AAA!
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  179. # [13:52] <Philip`> gsnedders: In numbersTest: s/dimentions/dimensions/
  180. # [13:55] <gsnedders> Philip`: fixed
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  203. # [16:23] <gsnedders> Jero: you around?
  204. # [16:23] <Jero> yup
  205. # [16:25] <gsnedders> did you start your PHP5 implementation from scratch not knowing that there was a semi-started one before, or some other reason?
  206. # [16:32] <gsnedders> Jero: and I've started on a 1:1 implementation in PHP, which isn't really so relevant in the real world
  207. # [16:33] <Jero> gsnedders: correct, I found out later that there was already an HTML5 parser in PHP
  208. # [16:33] <Jero> gsnedders: but I could access the site (some issues with Trac I believe)
  209. # [16:34] <gsnedders> Jero: it's not so interesting now. a lot of the code written for it is obsolete
  210. # [16:34] <gsnedders> http://php-html5lib.dashslot.net/svn/trunk works, though
  211. # [16:35] <Jero> gsnedders: interesting
  212. # [16:35] * Quits: webben_ (i=benh@nat/yahoo/x-27b006c78a1968a7)
  213. # [16:35] <Jero> also, what do you think of my implementation so far?
  214. # [16:35] <gsnedders> I've never had time to really look into it
  215. # [16:35] <gsnedders> (due to school, and now trying to get as much of the spec review done as possible before going away in a week)
  216. # [16:36] <gsnedders> http://geoffers.no-ip.com/svn/php-html-5-direct contains the direct implementation
  217. # [16:37] <Jero> thanks
  218. # [16:37] <gsnedders> it's all very slow, though
  219. # [16:37] <Jero> so is my implementation at the moment :p
  220. # [16:37] <gsnedders> the direct one will be far slower, though
  221. # [16:38] <Jero> yeah, i'm sure
  222. # [16:38] <gsnedders> as the aim is to make absolutely no compromises from the spec
  223. # [16:38] <gsnedders> which is the case of the tokeniser means one character at a time
  224. # [16:38] <gsnedders> *means emitting
  225. # [16:38] <Jero> yeah, that's not a very optimal solution :p
  226. # [16:39] <Jero> but I guess I've only made three or four changes to the entire parsing algorithm compared to the spec
  227. # [16:41] <Philip`> If you want to write a new tokeniser in some language, it could perhaps be helpful to build on my work - that has a direct representation of the spec algorithm, and generates C++ or JS code to execute it, and it ought to be fairly quick to do other languages in the same way
  228. # [16:42] * Quits: moeffju (i=moeffju@ubermutant.net) (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
  229. # [16:43] <Philip`> (I need to add some kind of abstraction in the code-generating part - JS was only easy because it's almost entirely identical to C++ except for replacing 'bool' with 'var', and it takes a little bit more effort if you needs $s in front of variables)
  230. # [16:43] <Philip`> (but I'll at least try to create a Perl implementation too, to make sure it's sufficiently portable between languages)
  231. # [16:50] * Joins: moeffju (i=moeffju@ubermutant.net)
  232. # [16:52] <gsnedders> Jero: I may, however, try forking off the direct impl and work on optimising it (as that's far nicer than starting from scratch, as I can just rewrite one method at a time)
  233. # [16:54] * Parts: Codler (n=Codler@84-218-6-193.eurobelladsl.telenor.se)
  234. # [16:56] <Jero> well, I followed the spec in everything (with three or four exceptions), so that's basically the same as forking off the direct implementation, don't you think?
  235. # [16:58] <gsnedders> Jero: yes
  236. # [16:59] <gsnedders> Jero: it would be interesting to compare the two, though (and optimising it won't take overly long to do)
  237. # [17:00] <Jero> my impl still has a couple of bugs (though most of them are related I think)
  238. # [17:01] <Jero> and I'm a bit behind when it comes to the last 60 or so revisions
  239. # [17:01] <gsnedders> heh. any bugs in the direct impl are either PHP bugs or spec bugs
  240. # [17:02] <gsnedders> and I wouldn't allow any regressions when optimising it
  241. # [17:03] <Jero> gsnedders: you can contribute to the code if you want to in the future
  242. # [17:03] <gsnedders> Jero: I'll probably optimise the tokeniser and then see how the two compare, then decide what to do from there
  243. # [17:04] <Jero> the tokeniser of my implementation you mean?
  244. # [17:05] <gsnedders> the tokeniser of the direct implementation, then compare it to your tokeniser
  245. # [17:05] <Jero> that sounds like a good idea
  246. # [17:06] <Jero> I'll upload the code I have on my PC to the online version of my parser, so you can compare it to the latest and greatest
  247. # [17:06] <gsnedders> heh. it won't be for a while, though
  248. # [17:06] <gsnedders> the tokeniser isn't written in the direct impl yet
  249. # [17:07] <Jero> oh i see :p
  250. # [17:07] <gsnedders> (which I had actually implied earlier)
  251. # [17:09] <Jero> also, don't you think it'd be great to have the HTML5's parsing algorithm being used by the built-in DOMDocument->loadHTML() function in PHP?
  252. # [17:10] <Jero> ATM that function uses the libxml2 HTML parser
  253. # [17:10] <gsnedders> Jero: as if you're ever gonna persude the PHP devs to implement a draft standard…
  254. # [17:10] <Jero> don't worry, it was just an idea..
  255. # [17:11] <gsnedders> Jero: it took me many, many, many years to persuade them of a bug in strip_tags(), which they kept writing off as being invalid HTML (as the aim there is to use a basic parser that'll work with valid HTML) despite me citing specific parts of the specification that clearly said otherwise
  256. # [17:13] <Jero> heh
  257. # [17:14] <gsnedders> I bet they didn't have a copy of the SGML spec, and were simply saying what they thought was right.
  258. # [17:14] <gsnedders> (it's actually something that despite being part of the SGML spec is relevant)
  259. # [17:17] <Jero> what was the bug?
  260. # [17:18] <gsnedders> U+003E within quoted attribute values
  261. # [17:18] <gsnedders> it probably breaks if you mix single and double quotes, actually
  262. # [17:18] <gsnedders> e.g., <foo bar="this'> is parsed as a single |foo| element where @bar=this
  263. # [17:20] <Jero> so it closes the value of bar upon seeing the ' character?
  264. # [17:20] <gsnedders> yes
  265. # [17:20] <Jero> that is indeed very weird
  266. # [17:21] <Jero> and what was their argument?
  267. # [17:22] <gsnedders> actually, that does work correctly
  268. # [17:22] <gsnedders> var_dump(strip_tags('<foo bar="this\'>">')); indeed produces string(0) ""
  269. # [17:22] <gsnedders> Jero: for the > bug? that it was invalid HTML.
  270. # [17:22] <gsnedders> Jero: for the latter? I only just thought of it
  271. # [17:23] <Jero> i see
  272. # [17:23] <gsnedders> the former is untrue, as it is completely valid
  273. # [17:24] <gsnedders> [^<&] off the top of my head
  274. # [17:25] <Jero> heh
  275. # [17:25] <Jero> and they still haven't fixed it?
  276. # [17:25] <gsnedders> the former is fixed in 5.2.2, IIRC
  277. # [17:26] <gsnedders> only 5, though
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  279. # [17:26] <gsnedders> the same patch would apply against 4.4 fine, but it's unfixed
  280. # [17:27] <Jero> that's stupid
  281. # [17:28] <gsnedders> typical of PHP development, though
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  283. # [17:29] <Jero> that's too bad
  284. # [17:29] <Philip`> <foo <bar=<bar> is syntactically valid in HTML5 now - only ["&] (or ['&] or (\s|&)) does anything
  285. # [17:30] * Philip` wonders how that will mess up strip_tags
  286. # [17:30] <gsnedders> Jero: http://cvs.php.net/viewvc.cgi/php-src/ext/standard/tests/strings/bug40432.phpt?revision=1.2&view=markup&pathrev=MAIN
  287. # [17:30] <Jero> thanks
  288. # [17:31] <gsnedders> I think I saw it fail in 5.2.3, actually
  289. # [17:32] <gsnedders> Philip`: http://cvs.php.net/viewvc.cgi/php-src/ext/standard/string.c?view=markup — search for php_u_strip_tags
  290. # [17:32] <gsnedders> Philip`: string(0) "" is PHP 5.2.3's output, though
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  292. # [17:37] <Jero> gsnedders, i'm off, if you ever need me regarding my HTML5 parser, email me at [censored :)]
  293. # [17:38] <gsnedders> Jero: I'll be around here if you ever want me
  294. # [17:38] <Jero> alrighty, bye
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  306. # [18:34] <gsnedders> jgraham: do you really think that those tests would be that hard to get working in another language? the script I use to parse it is in the repos
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  309. # [18:36] <gsnedders> jgraham: I didn't want to copy the html5lib test cases format as it would mean I'd need the input data repeated multiple times for each algorithm
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  312. # [18:42] <Philip`> gsnedders: It would probably be useful to give more detail on the test format, like how it represents arrays and strings
  313. # [18:42] <Philip`> or just use JSON since that already defines those things and everyone has JSON parsers already :-)
  314. # [18:43] <gsnedders> and have each test as an object with an array of results?
  315. # [18:47] <gsnedders> Philip`: but yeah, the documentation was thrown together very quickly
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  318. # [19:00] <Philip`> gsnedders: I was thinking of something like [["Empty string", "", false, false, false, null, "", []], ...], since that's about the same as what you have already but more JSONic, but maybe ["Empty string", "", { "unsigned":false, "signed":false, "real":false, ... }] would be more easily extensible
  319. # [19:01] <gsnedders> Philip`: I was thinking {"":[false,false,false,null,null,[]]}
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  321. # [19:01] <Philip`> It'd be nice if JSON allowed you to keep comments
  322. # [19:02] <gsnedders> Philip`: there are only headers for large groups of tests, so I don't feel that much about keeping them
  323. # [19:04] <Philip`> What about XML? <numbertest><!-- Empty string --><input></input><outputs><output algorithm="unsigned"><false/></output><output algorithm="integerlist"><items/></output>...
  324. # [19:04] <gsnedders> that means defining data types and the like
  325. # [19:04] <Philip`> Hmm, maybe the [false,false,...] one is easiest
  326. # [19:06] <Philip`> In any case, it does seem probably easier to use JSON rather than a custom data format when you have arrays and non-ASCII strings, to avoid making every implementor implement another test parser
  327. # [19:07] <gsnedders> that's true
  328. # [19:07] <gsnedders> just lack of comments in JSON is annoying
  329. # [19:08] <gsnedders> around 15 minutes to be completely happy with a JSON version of the test suite… not overly slow…
  330. # [19:08] <Philip`> (JSON is also quite handy when you're running tests in web browsers)
  331. # [19:09] <gsnedders> (It would've been easier if it were possible to get pretty printing of JSON in PHP)
  332. # [19:09] <gsnedders> (as I just hacked my existing parser)
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  349. # [21:22] <gsnedders> jgraham: just looking at the PHPUnit compiled version of the tests?
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  359. # [22:26] <virtuelv_> is it defined anywhere what the implied DOM should be like when using createHTMLDocument()?
  360. # [22:27] <virtuelv_> (iow: what should the DOM be like given var doc = document.implementation.createHTMLDocument("");
  361. # [22:27] <virtuelv_> doc.documentElement.innerHTML = "<h1>What</h1>";
  362. # [22:27] <virtuelv_> alert(doc.documentElement.outerHTML);
  363. # [22:28] <virtuelv_> what should be alerted?
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  365. # [22:29] <jgraham> gsnedders: Yeah, for some reason I looked at the PHP version
  366. # [22:30] <gsnedders> jgraham: yeah. that'd be thy impossible to parse. there's now a JSON version of the tests in the repo as well, though
  367. # [22:30] <gsnedders> (but that loses some data, like not distinguishing between ints and floats)
  368. # [22:32] <Philip`> Could you store floats as strings instead of numbers?
  369. # [22:33] <gsnedders> then parse the string?
  370. # [22:33] <gsnedders> hmmm…
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The end :)