/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2007-07-13 / end

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  66. # [11:26] <gsnedders> hsivonen: nitpick about the "About the Validation Service" page: "fantasai and me" — me should be myself
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  69. # [11:31] <hsivonen> gsnedders: are you sure? suppose "by" was used with a third person, it would be "him" or "her", right?
  70. # [11:32] <gsnedders> hsivonen: I'm sure. I have no idea what the rule is, but me is most certainly wrong
  71. # [11:33] * gsnedders is now looking up OXM
  72. # [11:35] <hsivonen> gsnedders: http://www.writing911.com/database/idx/8/040/Common-Grammar-Questions/article/Me-Myself-and-I-Whats-the-Difference.html
  73. # [11:35] <hsivonen> "If it works with him, use me. If the word follows a preposition (words like by, after, as, at, for, in, like, with, etc.), choose me."
  74. # [11:36] <gsnedders> hsivonen: myself is reflexive.
  75. # [11:36] <gsnedders> hsivonen: you wrote it yourself.
  76. # [11:37] <gsnedders> hsivonen: [It was] written by fantasai and me.
  77. # [11:37] <gsnedders> hsivonen: it's the same person doing the action.
  78. # [11:37] <gsnedders> hsivonen: thus, you use the reflexive
  79. # [11:39] <hsivonen> gsnedders: unfortunately, I'm not trusting your advice on this without a grammatical reference work that specifically calls for "by myself"
  80. # [11:39] <hsivonen> because, my grammar sense says "me", the above reference says "me" and googlefight says "me": http://googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=%22by+me%22&word2=%22by+myself%22
  81. # [11:40] <gsnedders> hsivonen: I sadly can't find anything in the OSM about it when to use both (though that'll mainly be due to it being grammatical, and not stylistic)
  82. # [11:41] <gsnedders> hsivonen: "by me" is fine in some contexts, though. in more contexts, probably, which is why there are more google hits for it
  83. # [11:42] <hsivonen> I tried to look this up in the Chicago Manual of Style, but I couldn't figure the right name for the concept to find it in the index
  84. # [11:49] <gsnedders> hsivonen: and I've just forgotten the quote of what the OED said
  85. # [11:49] * gsnedders runs back downstairs
  86. # [11:51] <hsivonen> http://googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=%22written+by+me%22&word2=%22written+by+myself%22
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  88. # [11:52] <gsnedders> 3. Subsituted for me on a object govered by a proposition
  89. # [11:52] <gsnedders> 5. As a direct or indirect object, in acc. or inf. const., or dependant on a proposition
  90. # [11:52] <gsnedders> hsivonen: two OED definitions of myself
  91. # [11:53] <gsnedders> hsivonen: in both cases, use of me is archaic
  92. # [11:54] <gsnedders> s/proposition/preposition
  93. # [11:55] <hsivonen> hmm. I still doubt that "me" was wrong in the agent case
  94. # [11:55] <hsivonen> As far as I can tell, "by myself" means something different as in the Céline Dion song
  95. # [11:56] <gsnedders> "Written by myself" is the same as the colloquial "Written by me"
  96. # [11:56] <gsnedders> (though the OED notes the latter as archaic)
  97. # [11:57] <othermaciej> that's not how I would interpret "written by myself"
  98. # [11:58] <othermaciej> I think most native English speakers (at least US English) would interpret that as "written by me alone, without any help or collaboration from anyone else"
  99. # [11:58] <hsivonen> othermaciej: I read "by myself" as "alone" as in the above-mentioned Céline Dion song
  100. # [11:59] <gsnedders> I as a native English speaker would agree in that case with the third definition in the OED of myself
  101. # [12:00] <hsivonen> gsnedders: given what othermaciej said, I think I rather risk being colloquial than give the impression that I acted alone
  102. # [12:01] <gsnedders> hsivonen: I already get that impression from me
  103. # [12:01] <gsnedders> (well, you and fantasai)
  104. # [12:03] <othermaciej> what's the sentence you're trying to adjust?
  105. # [12:03] <hsivonen> gsnedders: I'm sorry if I'm wrong and thick here, but I still find the reference I cited more plausible
  106. # [12:04] <hsivonen> othermaciej: "Written by fantasai and me."
  107. # [12:04] <othermaciej> that sounds grammatically right to me
  108. # [12:04] <hsivonen> (not that I'd go against the OED, but I am not convinced the OED means this case)
  109. # [12:08] <othermaciej> the object of a preposition should almost always be "me", not "myself"
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  111. # [12:11] <othermaciej> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/myself has some notes
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  116. # [12:25] <hsivonen> does IE7 put the attribute foo="bar" in the DOM in this case: http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C/br%20foo%3Dbar%3E
  117. # [12:25] <hsivonen> Opera does
  118. # [12:26] <hsivonen> even with doctype http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C%21DOCTYPE%20html%3E%0D%0A%3C/br%20foo%3Dbar%3E
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  197. # [23:49] * Joins: weinig_ (i=weinig@nat/apple/x-4bb1ab8b6bbb4614)
  198. # [23:50] * Quits: weinig (i=weinig@nat/apple/x-4e2881a4c593f42e) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  199. # [23:51] * weinig_ is now known as weinig
  200. # Session Close: Sat Jul 14 00:00:00 2007

The end :)