/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2007-07-15 / end

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  41. # [09:10] <duryodhan> for the color chooser, maybe one could define the color ends like#ff0 and #fff , and all shades in between will be shown for the user to pick, instead of writing a list of all colors
  42. # [09:10] <duryodhan> not sure how usefull that will be though... :)
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  65. # [14:47] <Philip`> I get a parse error for "unrecognised entity name" on 60% of pages, which seems quite surprising
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  72. # [15:16] <Philip`> Oh, right, the unrecognised entities were almost all in attributes, which sounds like <a href="a?b&c">, so that's not so surprising
  73. # [15:18] <Philip`> 60% of pages have that error, 30% have no parse errors at all, 10% have duplicate attributes (odd?), 7% have non-permitted slashes, etc
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  76. # [15:32] <zcorpan_> Philip`: what are the duplicate attributes?
  77. # [15:34] <zcorpan_> things like <meta name=keywords content=the best of the best>?
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  82. # [15:55] <aas> anybody here?
  83. # [15:57] <zcorpan_> yep
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  85. # [16:01] <aas> i have a little proble with XHTML MP DOCTYPE declaration
  86. # [16:01] <zcorpan_> ok
  87. # [16:04] <aas> while i'm creating XHTML MP document in servlet through XSLT transformation it's connection to w3c.org and verifing content, and then throw FileNotFound exception on http://www.wapforum.org/DTD/xhtml-mobile10-model-1.mod file
  88. # [16:04] <aas> hmmm. i hope my english seems not very bad for you
  89. # [16:05] <aas> so, what should i do for preventing this error?
  90. # [16:05] <zcorpan_> don't use a doctype
  91. # [16:05] <aas> )
  92. # [16:06] <aas> of course, it will solve my problem, but it's incorrect a little a think
  93. # [16:06] <aas> *i
  94. # [16:06] <zcorpan_> why is it incorrect?
  95. # [16:07] <aas> i read it's necessary to include doctype in document
  96. # [16:07] <zcorpan_> according to whom?
  97. # [16:07] <aas> wait a sec
  98. # [16:09] <aas> hmmm...
  99. # [16:11] <aas> then another question: a you sure that all phones can process wap2.0 page without doctype element?
  100. # [16:12] <zcorpan_> pretty sure
  101. # [16:12] <zcorpan_> http://simon.html5.org/articles/mobile-results
  102. # [16:13] <aas> are you writing wap sites?
  103. # [16:13] <zcorpan_> no
  104. # [16:14] <zcorpan_> according to my testing, most phones treat your (carefully crafted) page (regardless of what it is) pretty much like desktop browsers treat html
  105. # [16:14] <aas> he, very interesting article, thanks )
  106. # [16:15] <zcorpan_> even if it validates as something fancy and is served as application/xhtml+xml
  107. # [16:15] <zcorpan_> it gets tag soup treatment by most phones
  108. # [16:15] <zcorpan_> (sadly)
  109. # [16:16] <aas> hmm. did you use emulators?
  110. # [16:17] <zcorpan_> i think a few emulators were tested too
  111. # [16:17] <zcorpan_> the s60 webkit emulator iirc
  112. # [16:17] <zcorpan_> (the result of which was confirmed on a real device)
  113. # [16:20] <aas> how do you think, does mobile phone browsers look at doctype at all?
  114. # [16:20] <zcorpan_> not sure. probably not
  115. # [16:21] <zcorpan_> opera might look at it
  116. # [16:22] <zcorpan_> if you serve the same markup to desktop browsers, and want to avoid quirks mode, then you may want to use some doctype
  117. # [16:22] <zcorpan_> (if you serve it as text/html)
  118. # [16:23] <aas> problem is that i already wrote code for converting web pages... useless now
  119. # [16:24] <Philip`> zcorpan_: http://www.sh3bwah.com/ does <img border="0" ... border=0>, http://www.sapo.pt/ does <a class="subcat" ... class="url">, http://www.nate.com/ does <input name="news_radio" ... name="NS" ...>, http://www.sanook.com/ does <a ... target="_blank" ... target="_blank" ...>
  120. # [16:25] <zcorpan_> Philip`: any dups for style?
  121. # [16:30] <aas> zcorpan_ thanks a lot! it was very useful for me
  122. # [16:30] <Philip`> zcorpan_: http://www.uume.com/
  123. # [16:30] <aas> sorry for my english
  124. # [16:31] * Parts: aas (n=opera@office.rambler-mobile.ru)
  125. # [16:31] <Philip`> <li ... style="display:none" style="background:none" ...>
  126. # [16:32] <Philip`> (I don't automatically collect data about which attributes were duplicated, so I'm just checking the list of pages through the W3C Validator to get more details)
  127. # [16:32] <zcorpan_> Philip`: ok
  128. # [16:32] <zcorpan_> Philip`: dups for style is nasty in ie
  129. # [16:33] <zcorpan_> Philip`: if we were to support what ie does with dups for style in html5, it would require hacks in the tokenizer :(
  130. # [16:36] <Philip`> <b style="color:red; /*" style="font-size:2em; */">
  131. # [16:36] <Philip`> Looks like you can't just concatenate the attribute values :-(
  132. # [16:36] <Philip`> I'll try adding some instrumentation to see how common each specific duplicated attribute is
  133. # [16:37] <zcorpan_> indeed, you need to parse each attribute separately and then combine them
  134. # [16:38] <Philip`> <b style="color:red" style="color:green">
  135. # [16:38] <zcorpan_> pretty much as if it was <style> b { color:red; /*</style> <style> b { font-size:2em; */</style>
  136. # [16:39] <Philip`> Have to reverse the order, it seems
  137. # [16:39] <zcorpan_> ah yep, that too
  138. # [16:39] <zcorpan_> as if it was <style> b { font-size:2em; */</style> <style> b { color:red; /*</style>
  139. # [16:40] <Philip`> <b style="color:red" style="color:green !important">
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  141. # [16:53] <zcorpan_> it is unclear to me what should happen here: http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C%21DOCTYPE%20html%3E%0D%0A%3Cinput%3E%3Cscript%3Edocument.body.firstChild.tabIndex%20%3D%20%22x%22%3B%20w%28document.body.firstChild.getAttribute%28%22tabindex%22%29%29%3C/script%3E
  142. # [16:54] <zcorpan_> "On setting, the given value must be converted to a string representing the number as a valid integer in base ten and then that string must be used as the new content attribute value."
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  146. # [17:24] <zcorpan_> ah. it's defined in http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2006/webapi/Binding4DOM/Overview.html?content-type=text/html;%20charset=utf-8#es-long
  147. # [17:25] <zcorpan_> very much needed spec that one
  148. # [17:25] * zcorpan_ thinks
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  150. # [17:52] <zcorpan_> wonder why <col> isn't allowed as a child of <table>
  151. # [17:52] <Philip`> zcorpan_: I see duplicate @style on 10 pages (out of ~480)
  152. # [17:52] <Philip`> ( http://www.uume.com http://www.megaupload.com http://www.goo.ne.jp http://www.whenu.com http://www.alibaba.com http://www.naver.com http://www.sohu.com http://www.51.com http://www.domaintools.com http://www.6rb.com )
  153. # [17:53] <zcorpan_> Philip`: wow, that's a lot
  154. # [17:57] <zcorpan_> the first two don't seem to break anything by not doing what ie does
  155. # [17:57] * zcorpan_ checks the others
  156. # [17:58] <Philip`> style="" style=""
  157. # [17:58] <Philip`> style="width:300px;" style="ime-mode: active;"
  158. # [17:58] <Philip`> style="padding:0px 0px;" style="font-size:10px;"
  159. # [17:58] <Philip`> style="float:left;width:40%;height:30px;" style="padding:0 0 4px 10px;"
  160. # [17:58] <Philip`> style="WIDTH: 317px" name=query tabindex=2 onfocus="return setTextBox(event, 0);" style="BACKGROUND-POSITION: left 50%; BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(http://wstatic.naver.com/www/images3/cursor.gif); BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat"
  161. # [17:58] <Philip`> style=" font-weight:normal; text-decoration:underline;color:#0000cc;font-size:12px;margin-left:240px;" style="behavior: url(#default#homepage)"
  162. # [17:58] <Philip`> style="FONT-SIZE: 12px" style="color:#ff0000"
  163. # [17:58] <Philip`> style="line-height: 1.0em;" style="vertical-align: top"
  164. # [17:58] <Philip`> style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 8pt; border: 1 solid #808080" style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 8pt"
  165. # [17:59] <Philip`> (Those are the pairs I see on one element)
  166. # [17:59] <Philip`> (for the ten sites)
  167. # [17:59] <zcorpan_> Philip`: thanks
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  169. # [18:02] <Philip`> Three of those pages have style="behaviour:url(#default#homepage)", which seems unusual
  170. # [18:02] <Philip`> and the links with those styles also have onClick="this.style.behavior='url(#default#homepage)';this.setHomePage('http://www.naver.com');"
  171. # [18:02] <Philip`> (The one with duplicate style attributes, of which one was that #default#homepage thing, also had the onclick on the same element)
  172. # [18:03] <zcorpan_> that's an ieism we probably don't need to copy
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  176. # [19:11] <jgraham> hsivonen: I just found a comment in the html5lib code for the processCharacter method in the InBody phase:
  177. # [19:11] <jgraham> # XXX The specification says to do this for every character at the
  178. # [19:11] <jgraham> # moment, but apparently that doesn't match the real world so we don't
  179. # [19:11] <jgraham> # do it for space characters.
  180. # [19:11] <jgraham> self.tree.reconstructActiveFormattingElements()
  181. # [19:11] <jgraham> So it looks like we don't reconstruct afe's for space elements by design
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  188. # [20:11] <hsivonen> jgraham: hmm. testing suggests that real world requires what the spec says--not what html5lib does (Re: afe)
  189. # [20:12] <jgraham> Interesting.
  190. # [20:13] <jgraham> At least we should raise this with Hixie
  191. # [20:14] <jgraham> and ask Anne if he knows why html5lib is different here
  192. # [20:14] * jgraham goes to re-enable current-spec compliant behaviour
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  194. # [20:16] <hsivonen> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C%21DOCTYPE%20html%3E%3Cp%3E%3Cb%3E%3Ci%3E%3Cu%3E%3C/p%3E%20%3Cp%3EX
  195. # [20:17] <hsivonen> Firefox 2.0, WebKit trunk, Safari 2.0.4, Opera 9.20 and, I'm told, IE7 all put the space node as a descendant of formatting elements as opposed to putting it as a child of body
  196. # [20:19] <hsivonen> jgraham: shouldn't this be raised with Anne first and with Hixie/the list only if Anne has a good reason to diverge from the spec and browser behavior?
  197. # [20:19] <jgraham> Yeah, that was expressed in reverse order
  198. # [20:24] <hsivonen> jgraham: email sent to Anne with you in the CC
  199. # [20:29] <jgraham> hsivonen: Got it.
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  211. # [22:02] <jgraham> Philip` / hsivonen: Going back to the tokenizer tests for non-BMP entities; these (if I am not mistaken) assume the tokenizer produces UTF-16 output.
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  213. # [22:03] <jgraham> Is that actually required anywhere? The DOM has to be UTF-16 but the HTML5 spec doesn't actually require that you construct a DOM per-se
  214. # [22:03] <Philip`> jgraham: They assume it produces UTF-32 output and then the JSON serialisation encodes those values as surrogate pairs
  215. # [22:04] <hsivonen> jgraham: no, JSON assumes UTF-16 code unit escapes
  216. # [22:04] <hsivonen> jgraham: if simplejson produces UTF-32 escapes, it is borked
  217. # [22:06] <jgraham> OK I think I understand.
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  235. # Session Close: Mon Jul 16 00:00:00 2007

The end :)