/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2007-07-29 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sun Jul 29 00:00:00 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  6. # [00:03] * Topic is 'WHATWG (HTML5) -- http://www.whatwg.org/ -- Logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
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  52. # [09:44] <Lachy> OMG! It really doesn't help when John responds to a difference of opinion with hostility, and then wonders where the attitude problem comes from :-(
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  74. # [13:31] <zcorpan> wow...
  75. # [13:31] * zcorpan is skipping the print thread
  76. # [13:33] * annevk did that too
  77. # [13:34] <annevk> seemed like a waste of time
  78. # [13:45] <krijnh> annevk: what have you done wrong on GoT?
  79. # [13:46] <annevk> nothing lately
  80. # [13:46] <krijnh> And before?
  81. # [13:47] <annevk> before that nothing much either as far as I can tell
  82. # [13:47] <annevk> pointer?
  83. # [13:48] <krijnh> http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_message/28361582#28361582
  84. # [13:48] <annevk> Ik denk dat hij bedoelt dat ik er tegenwoordig niet meer langskom
  85. # [13:48] <krijnh> Ah, dat kan ook ja
  86. # [13:49] <krijnh> Ik dacht al :)
  87. # [13:49] <krijnh> Verwart 'ie je met Faruk ofzo? ;p
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  91. # [16:07] <annevk> http://quuz.org/xml5/play
  92. # [16:08] * moeffju[Away] is now known as moeffju
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  94. # [16:14] <Philip`> Did something just change with DOCTYPE handling, or am I imagining things?
  95. # [16:15] <annevk> Where?
  96. # [16:16] <Philip`> http://quuz.org/xml5/play
  97. # [16:16] <annevk> Changed as opposed to what, in that case?
  98. # [16:17] <Philip`> It appeared to be giving an empty document if I had a <!DOCTYPE > anywhere, but now it doesn't do that, but I can't remember if I was just doing something wrong at first :-)
  99. # [16:17] <annevk> a start tag is required, fwiw
  100. # [16:17] <krijnh> annevk: text-align:justifyx ?
  101. # [16:17] <annevk> or empty tag
  102. # [16:18] <annevk> krijnh, ah, I'll drop that line
  103. # [16:18] <krijnh> Perhaps an Opera extension, to fix justify :)
  104. # [16:19] <Philip`> Is it intentional that <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "foo"'> isn't parsed the same as in HTML5?
  105. # [16:19] <Philip`> (I have no idea how XML would parse that)
  106. # [16:19] <hasather> Philip`: you need a system id
  107. # [16:20] <annevk> doctypes are currently not ending up in the tree
  108. # [16:20] <annevk> you should be able to use the internal subset to add entities and default attribute values though
  109. # [16:23] <annevk> maybe when I have some more time I'll do it through oninput and XMLHttpRequest which should safe everyone from pressing that silly button
  110. # [16:24] <annevk> and maybe also provide some other output serializations
  111. # [16:32] <Philip`> Oh, in XML it's just a parse error when it hits the ' instead of finding a space character
  112. # [16:32] <Philip`> (whereas HTML5 ignores the ' and ends the doctype on the >, and XML5 thinks it's the start of a single-quoted string and carries on reading until it finds a closing single-quote somewhere later)
  113. # [16:33] <annevk> I've yet to enable parse errors; error handling could be changed I suppose to make it more HTML5 like
  114. # [16:35] <Philip`> You could save everyone from pressing that button by just implementing it in client-side JavaScript instead of Python or whatever it is :-)
  115. # [16:43] <annevk> maybe I should reimplement it in ocaml
  116. # [16:48] <Philip`> That'd just be crazy :-p
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  119. # [16:53] <Philip`> http://quuz.org/xml5/play?source=%3Chtml%3E%26lt%3B%26lt%3B%3C%2Fhtml%3E is weird
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  121. # [16:55] <annevk> there are issues with entity handling, yeah, :(
  122. # [16:55] <annevk> I should fix that
  123. # [16:58] <Philip`> http://quuz.org/xml5/play?source=%3Chtml%3E%26amp%3C%2Fhtml%3E - that also looks like issues :-)
  124. # [16:59] <annevk> it shouldn't have emitted the final ;
  125. # [17:00] <zcorpan> "# [16:32] <Philip`> (whereas HTML5 ignores the ' and ends the doctype on the >, and XML5 thinks it's the start of a single-quoted string and carries on reading until it finds a closing single-quote somewhere later) " -- that's not how i read the html5 spec
  126. # [17:01] <zcorpan> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "foo"'> is, afaict, parsed as if it was <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "foo" '>'>
  127. # [17:03] <annevk> yeah
  128. # [17:06] <Philip`> http://quuz.org/xml5/play?source=%7C+%3Ca%3E+%7C - "Service Temporarily Unavailable"
  129. # [17:07] <Philip`> zcorpan: Argh, I'm not sure how I missed that when actually testing it - maybe I didn't bother looking at the test output...
  130. # [17:07] <Philip`> But at least IE does ignore the ' if you do that
  131. # [17:08] <Philip`> (which is possibly what I was thinking of)
  132. # [17:08] <zcorpan> ie is possibly reparsing
  133. # [17:09] <Philip`> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?a%3C%21DOCTYPE%20%22%22%22%3Eb%22%3Ec%0D%0Ad%3C%21DOCTYPE%20%22%22%20%22%3Ee%22%3Ef
  134. # [17:10] <annevk> Philip`, weird...
  135. # [17:11] <annevk> works fine if I try it directly on the server...
  136. # [17:11] <zcorpan> Philip`: oh. wow.
  137. # [17:12] <Philip`> IE never really parses the doctype - it just tries to jump through the quotes and work out where the end of the doctype is, then does string matches through the entire doctype content to decide if it should be quirks mode
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  140. # [17:13] <Philip`> (See quirkiness of http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C%21DOCTYPE%20fooDOCTYPE%20NETSCfoo%3E vs http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C%21DOCTYPE%20fooDOCTYPE%20NETSfoo%3E )
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  142. # [17:20] <annevk> Philip`, thanks for the bug reports btw, I'll look into them somewhere next week
  143. # [17:22] <Philip`> (Also http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C%21DOCTYPE%20DTD%20HTML%204%20http%3A//%3E works peculiarly in IE, when you remove a / or change the 4 into a 3 or 5 first)
  144. # [17:33] <zcorpan> can someone read hungarian? http://weblabor.hu/forumok/temak/18561
  145. # [17:36] <Philip`> http://www.tranexp.com:2000/InterTran?type=url&url=http%3A%2F%2Fweblabor.hu%2Fforumok%2Ftemak%2F18561&text=&from=hun&to=eng can't read it especially well
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  147. # [17:40] <zcorpan_> http://quuz.org/xml5/play?source=%3C%21DOCTYPE+a%5B%3C%21ENTITY+a+%22%3Ca%2F%3E%22%3E%5D%3E%26a%3B
  148. # [17:40] <zcorpan_> that was not allowed in xml 1.0
  149. # [17:42] <Philip`> http://quuz.org/xml5/play?source=%EF%BF%BD - internal server error
  150. # [17:45] <zcorpan_> Philip`: no wonder, it decodes as windows-1252 instead of utf-8...
  151. # [17:45] <zcorpan_> gotta love tools that assume that there is a mapping between language and encoding
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  154. # [18:05] <zcorpan_> annevk: the xml declaration is not part of the infoset in xml 1.0 i think
  155. # [18:26] <zcorpan_> annevk: <:> is interesting. per xml 1.0 without namespaces it is just an element with the name ":"
  156. # [18:30] <zcorpan_> annevk: http://quuz.org/xml5/play?source=%3Ca%3E%3C%2Fb+x%3D%22%3E%22%3E is different from html5
  157. # [18:33] <Philip`> http://quuz.org/xml5/play?source=%3Ca%3E%3Cb%3E%0D%0A%3Ca%2F%3E%3Cb%3E%0D%0A%3Ca%2F%2F%3E%3Cb%3E%0D%0A%3Ca%2F%2F%2F%3E%3Cb%3E%0D%0A%3Ca%2F%2F%2F%2F%3E%3Cb%3E seems odd
  158. # [18:35] <zcorpan_> <??>
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  168. # [21:21] <gavin> hrm, are the list archives going to be fixed some time soon?
  169. # [21:24] <hsivonen> gavin: I wouldn't expect fixes to the whatwg infrastructure while Hixie is on vacation
  170. # [21:25] <gavin> ok
  171. # [21:25] <gavin> when is he back, again?
  172. # [21:27] <hsivonen> gavin: IIRC, he went away for three weeks, but I've lost track of the starting point of the three weeks
  173. # [21:28] <gavin> ok
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The end :)